User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee/Archive 8

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2016–17 Serie A club season articles

Hey man, I wanted to speak with you for a moment about the upcoming season. As you can probably see I've been creating quite a few articles for the new season already, and I wondered if you might do me a massive favor. Could you create the two new season articles for the Milan clubs and oversee them for the duration of the 2016–17 season, in line with the same style that we use for all the other club articles? I would be extremely grateful and it would take some of the load off. I can handle the rest of the articles. (Besides Lazio and Juventus of course, I know you contribute mightily to those). Sincerely, Italia2006 (talk) 16:59, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Sure, I'll do what I can. With Frosinone back in Serie B, I can probably have a little more time for the Milan articles. Question: You probably notice that I don't update the appearance and goals sections often. What to the +n numbers mean? Are those substitute appearances? How does that table work? That's the only part of season articles that ever confused me. Other than that I should be fine to handle those few articles. And by the way, where do you get your attendance figures from, I usually just wait for you to input them ;), but it would be good to know so I don't have to leave any gaps Thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 20:27, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Yep, the "+n" signifies substitute appearances. So "30+5" means 30 starts and 5 substitute appearances. Italia2006 (talk) 20:50, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Ah, okay, so my hunch was correct. How about the attendances? Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:11, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Before I answer, what do you mean exactly? Where do I get the attendances? Here's the site: [1] Italia2006 (talk) 21:53, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Thanks for the site, that's what I meant. Does this get updated regularly and will it include the 2016-17 season? Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:59, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

They update it extremely regularly. All attendances for weekend matches are available the following Monday or Tuesday (as in, a day or two after a match has been played) and they've been doing this every season for almost twenty years. It's an extremely reliable resource. Italia2006 (talk) 22:01, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Great, thanks, I'll use this site then in the upcoming season. FYI, I'll probably get around to creating the Milan articles sometime tomorrow. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 22:04, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good. Italia2006 (talk) 22:19, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

RE: Mafioso

Thanks. I'll work on it soon. Also I agree, I didn't realize how Wikipedia has few articles of the Canadian Mafia until yesterday.richard^talk 03:28, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Vito Rizzuto

I see you edited Vito Rizzuto's bio a few days ago. I thought I should point out that the information listed on his children is false. His daughter's name is not Maria Rizzuto Renda. Her name is Bettina, after his mother. Nor did she marry Paolo Renda, as that would be weird. He is her uncle and Maria Rizzuto Renda is Vito's sister. Paolo was Vito's brother-in-law. I'm not sure what info you contributed, but if anything should have been edited... That should have been one of them.

M

Cammz86 (talk) 17:40, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi there. Do you have a source about the info you are presenting? If so, please add it, or let me know and I can help assist. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:01, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, you seem to be correct. I've made the needed revisions to Vito's page. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:09, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

I know the family. You should also correct the above portiom as his children are still Listed as Maria Rizzuto Renda along with his two sons

You should read the Sixth Family, the family history is fairly accurate. Cammz86 (talk) 18:31, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

 Done It's now corrected in the infobox, thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:33, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Re: Italy national football team

My fault. Sorry. Thanks for writing. --Freddyballo (talk) 09:16, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

No problem. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:02, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Barzagli

Hi, have you got any source concerning Barzagli retiring from the national team? Because I read in the Gazzetta that Ventura will try to convince him to stay a little longer in light of the upcoming tough World Cup qualification group. --Tanonero (msg) 12:41, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi. I guess I don't really have a source, with this probably being the closest, although it never actually says it. I guess it is sort of implied (but I know we can't go off of that). On the Italian wiki it says 2004-2016, and mirrors the same on the English wiki, but then again they already have Pirlo's as 2002-2015 (does not show that on English wiki) even though he explicitly never retired yet, but probably won't play again. Maybe it could be treated the same as when Pirlo was thought to retire after the last World Cup, but then was convinced to stay a little longer, or how Messi last week said he would retire, but could come back for all we know. I mean, I would just like things to be consistent between the articles as since the Barzagli article already states his retirement. @Messirulez: Do you have anything to add? Thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 12:54, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Here he had said he would leave the national team after the euros, although I know Pirlo had also previously said the same prior to the 2014 World Cup, but later reversed his decision. Here and here it states that Ventura will likely try to convince him to remain with the team, where as this source is a bit more ambiguous regarding the decision. This source is a bit less reliable, but he says that he had previously mentioned that he would leave the team after the European Championships, but that since giving the statement he no longer gave any thought to the decision as he was focussed on the tournament. This other source is also a bit less reliable and states that he bids farewell to the national side and breaks down into tears. I suppose we will have to wait and see; for now the Messi article says he has retired, so I suppose we could leave it for now and change it if any new information becomes available. Thoughts? Best, Messirulez (talk) 13:27, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Thanks for your comprehensive report. With regards to the matter at hand, which is whether to keep Barzagli in bold here, given this uncertainty (and, more importantly, the fact the bold has been indicating that players are active as footballers and non necessarily as part of the national team), I am going to revert the most recent Vaselineeeeeeee's edit . Tanonero (msg) 15:07, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

@Tanonero: No problem, that seems reasonable for the list of Italy international footballers page. @Messirulez: Should we then add 2002-2015 to Pirlo's infobox too then? It does seem likely that he won't play again. The Italian wiki as already done so... but are there any sources that sort of point to that direction. Thanks guys. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 16:40, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Here is a new article which also implies Barzagli might not fully be done with Italy, although it does once again say that he had officially communicated his intention to retire from the national side after the Euros. Also, regarding Pirlo, although I think we could conclude his Italy career as being from 2002–2015, I'm still not sure what would be best to put, as I've found some conflicting information. Although in some articles it seems like he might be done with Italy, he also seems to imply that if he were to be needed or called up, that he still might play, at least according to Football Italia and Eurosport, although this does seem unlikely, especially as it seems Ventura will probably focus on younger players. I remember there being a similar problem with Del Piero, as he never officially said he would retire, but then after not playing for a year he did some punditry work and then started speaking about pursuing a coaching career, so it seemed appropriate to state that he had ended his playing career. Best, Messirulez (talk) 17:32, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yes, I just saw that new Football Italia article on Barzagli. His agent still seems like there is a possibility for him to come back. I guess we can keep it as 2004-2016 for now and like how you added what Ventura said to his article. That is probably best. For Pirlo, maybe we can keep it as 2002- still since, yes, I've also seen him say that he wouldn't not accept a call up from Italy if he were asked. Any other thoughts? Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 19:18, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

@Pinturicchio07: In light of the latest article published on various sites, amongst them Football Italia, it makes sense to keep the page the way I edited it i.e. "Barzagli... has accumulated 61 appearances in his Italy career so far" instead of "ended his career" It's not just semantics, it's factual. I would like my revision reinstated.07:47, 6 July 2016 (UTC)Pinturicchio07 (talk)

He has communicated he would retire after this Euro 2016 tournament. Therefore, it is correct how it is. Ventura may convince it, but we don't know for sure. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:12, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Italy v Germany

To be honest, man, I just didn't care enough about the dispute. I saw your message when I was quite busy at work, so simple edits were all I was capable of doing at the time. I wasn't interested in constructing a big reply to your comment. Then time passed and I forgot, even after your reminder. I'm sorry you were offended by my lack of response, but I had other things to do and this issue wasn't at the top of my list of priorities. – PeeJay 16:14, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

@PeeJay2K3: Thank you for your response, that's all you needed to do :) Understood, that's what I figured and why I asked elsewhere. If you would like an update on the matter, Number 57 told me yesterday he would close the thread in 2-3 days in favour of what we were saying in regards to the use of "defeat" and "eliminated" if the thread stays dormant for users in favour of Canon's wording. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 16:17, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

@Vaselineeeeeeee I messaged the admin too. If you look at the discussion page you had said you don't really care if the term eliminated is used or not, Hashim-afc on the other hand is the only user that wants to use the word overcome. I left a list of users who consulted on the first issue, explained that I incorporated the consensus into the edit and that it sat for a few days before Hashim-afc said he didn't like the word eliminated being used to describe the result of that particular elimination match. I asked Number 57 for his thoughts and brought up you were in the middle, and Hashim-afc and myself were on either side in this discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canon 108 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Canon, I don't believe I said that, after looking at the discussion again, unless I missed it. And if I did, maybe it was before I was reminded of Euro 96. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 17:59, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Non-free use rationales

WP:NFCC#10c is not about men's or women's teams; it's about whether a non-free use rationale is provided. A non-free use rationale is provided for the English/Spainish women's teams, but there isn't one provided for the Italian women's team. So, if you feel non-free use is justified, then please provided the relevant non-free use rationale. Each use of non-free content is required to have a non-free use rationale. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:48, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: Can you point me to those rationals so I can see what one looks like? Thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 23:55, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

If you click on any file, you should be taken to the file's Wikipedia where you can find information such as who uploaded the file, when it was uploaded, how many bytes it is, and how it's been licensed, etc. Typically for non-free files, the non-free use rationale(s) tend to be listed in the "Summary" section while the copyright information tends to be listed in the licensing section. So if you go to File:FIGC logo.svg, you find rationales for three other uses of this particular file. You can use a template for the rationale if you want, or you just write your own providing all of the necessary information. Both are considered acceptable.

Having said all that, I think I should also say that simply providing a rationale does not automatically mean that non-free use is compliant per WP:NFCC. There are 10 non-free content criteria in WP:NFCCP and the NFCC requires that all 10 criteria be satisfied for each use of the file. WP:NFCC#10 is just one criterion, and only helps ensure that the file is not speedily deleted per WP:F6, or in this particular case from being tagged with Template:Di-missing some article links. As I tried to explain in my previous post on your user talk, I don't believe a valid non-free use rationale can be written for this particular case. I also don't agree that the other uses of this file as well as the non-free usage of other similar files is necessarily compliant with the NFCC. Those, however, are different discussions and things that will be resolved through WP:FFD or the currently ongoing discussion at WT:NFCC.

Finally, one last thing to try and remember is that since a separate, specific non-free use rationale is required for each use by NFCC#10c, the fact that other stuff exists does not automatically ensure compliance with the NFCC. The non-free use of a similar file in another article or even in the same article may or may not be NFCC compliant, but the circumstances of its use does not necessarily directly translate into the use of other similar non-free files. It is also possible that the other file is freely licensed or is in the public domain. Some soccer logos have been judged to be too simple for copyright protection in their country of origin and are therefore licensed as Template:PD-logo or c:Template:PD-textlogo. Freely licensed and PD files are not subject to the NFCC and can be used much more liberally on Wikipedia than non-free files. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:41, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: Thanks for that explanation. Where would I submit my rationale? Sorry if that sounds stupid, I'm not very familiar with this stuff. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 00:51, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Generally, you don't need to submit a non-free use rationale anywhere for approval. You simply add it to the file's page and then add the file to article where you want to use it. It's assumed in good faith that by adding the rationale that you feel the particular use is NFCC compliant per WP:NFCCE. You can ask for feedback if you like at WT:NFCC or WP:MCQ if you're not sure, but that's not required.

After you add the rationale, it's possible of course that someone may decide to challenge its validity via WP:FFD or Template:di-disputed fair use rationale, but you are given the ability to respond in either case. One potential flaw in the process is that only the file's uploader seems to be required to be notified in either case; Many editors adding non-free files are not the uploader, but rather just somebody who wants to use the file in a particular way. So, you sort of have to watch the file's page or the article itself to see whether a file's non-free use is being discussed/challenged. If the removal of the file is an obvious case of vandalism or was done without an edit sum, then you can probably just re-add the file. If someone gave a reason why, then it might be a good idea to discuss it with them on the article or file talk page or on their user talk as well. My understanding is that the de-fault position is that a file provided with a non-free use rationale for a particular use should generally not be removed without a FFD discussion unless it's clear beyond a shadow of the doubt that the rationale is flawed. Even then, a better solution would be to tag the file with a speedy deletion "di" template instead and let an administrator decide.

The only time you might be required to discuss a particular use in advance is when the file has been previously discussed at WP:NFCR or WP:FFD. If a particular non-free use of a file was previously removed per a NFCR/FFD discussion, then you probably establish a new consensus for such use by opening a new FFD discussion and showing the circumstances have changed and that non-free use is now justified. You can usually see whether a file has been previously removed per a NFCR/FFD discussion by scanning the article's edit history or by checking for a Template:Oldffdfull on the file's talk page or a Template:Non-free reviewed on the file's page. Not all admins who have removed file's, however, add these "results" templates so you may also have to check the file's edit history as well for edit sums. For what it's worth, the above does not seem to apply to the Italy logo. There is no "Oldffdfull" or "Non-free review" template, and I didn't see any links to FFD/NFCR discussions in the article's edit history. So, I don`t think the file's non-free use in the article has been previously discussed before. That does not preclude a possible future discussion, but it just means nothing to date. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:33, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Canada

Hahah! No I don't, I love Canada too. :)

@Walter J. Rotelmayer: Haha, great!! Ever been? I also noticed you say your from Sicily on the Italians talk page. You can use this userbox to show that you know the language if you like (assuming you do know the language) :

scnSt'utenti canusci lu sicilianu comu la sò lingua matri.

....... I'm second generation Italian in Canada, (the language has been lost through the generations sadly), eventually I'll take it upon myself to travel there and to learn the Italian language better soon. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 01:35, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Checking in

Hello my friend, I just wanted to see how you're doing and to congratulate you; you really seem to have grown into your role as an editor and at this point are probably beyond me as far as the community is concerned. I'm very interested to see what happens when the Serie A fixtures get released, and I look forward to your help in adding them to the season articles, especially because it'll be quite a bit of work. Cheers! Italia2006 (talk) 19:15, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Hey man, thanks for those words. Yes, ever since about a year ago I started taking the project seriously and finally learned most of the syntax and what not in the footy space on wiki. I still remember (I'm sure you do too) at the beginning of last season when you notified me for changing some of the syntax in football collapsible boxes in club season articles vs CL season articles. It's things like that that I've become more accustomed to. I feel like I have a place here now after getting off to a rough start, so thank you for your words once again. I do edit quite a lot now per day; I don't know if that's a good or bad thing haha, but I enjoy it, especially since I love to expand the communities info and quality on Italian football. In regards to when the schedule comes out, I believe July 22, I'll try my best to update the articles. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 19:57, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Re: GA noms/Captaincies/others

Thanks, that's great! The Baggio one should be ok I think (there are lots of sources and I spent a lot of time cleaning it up), although I might need to remove the assists tables as I know those aren't usually included anymore. As for the Del Piero article, I had gone through it quite extensively as well and looked at the feedback the last two GA reviews gave as to why it had been rejected, and I made those changes as well as several others, and I think I really cleaned up the language and added much more sourced information (admittedly, I don't think I have looked at the paragraphs on his time in Australia and India, however, aside from a few minor additions), so I think it could be nominated as well, if you think it is worth of GA-status. Although I had spent some time adjusting the language in the Totti article a while ago, and although there are many sources (in particular in his later career, international career, style of play, outside of football, personal life, etc.) I'm not sure if there are sufficient sources in the paragraphs on his early career to earn it GA status, but I'm guessing it should be promoted to at least B-article status, no? How do you feel about all the Pogba news? Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 13:27, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yes, I figured someone had looked at the prior GA reviews as most of the problems were fixed up. The good thing is with GA noms is that the reviewer usually gives you some time to fix up any of their suggestions. So if they tell us anything we need to fix up, we can hopefully correct it ASAP. I noticed that the reviewer in the Del Piero did not like that there wasn't a section on just Padova, too. But to be honest, I thought that was a little unnecessary as it did state it in the lead as well as the early career section... He was only there for two years at the start of his career, not much to say. Even if you look at Pirlo, we just have an early career section, not specifically on Brescia and Inter, and it was passed. Yes, the assists are sort of frowned upon now, so I can remove them easily if you like. You probably noticed that I removed the assists in the Totti article about a month ago (hadn't noticed the Baggio one). The Australia and India sections in Del Piero don't look that bad actually, reasonable amount of sources, but if they pick on that, again, hopefully we can fix it up. Hopefully we get them to all pass in the same fashion Buffon and Pirlo did! In regards to Pogba, I think the news is all BS, don't you? Even Raiola had stated that the talks aren't true and are mostly just rumours. I really hope Pogba doesn't leave. mean if I were him why would I want to go back to the club that didn't really give me a chance and now want to buy me back when I turned out to be a success? Juve could do a lot with the 120M, but I don't really think we need it. We can buy some quality players without it. Pjaca for example I think was a decent buy. He's a winger so hopefully he can help our attack. Leicester proved last year that you don't need lots of money to win cups, and Juve have somewhat proved that as well by getting to CL final two years ago. If he were to go, who do you think Juve would buy? Higuain?? hahaah. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:42, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

I just changed the Early Career sub-heading now; do you think that's better and that it might satisfy reviewers? I agree with you that the Padova part of his career doesn't need an entire section to itself...he was very young, and he played in Serie B at the time for two seasons, and only scored 1 goal and made 14 appearances; I also think he still alternated between the youth and senior squads at the time, like with his first season at Juventus. I remember the reviewer had stated that Padova wasn't mentioned in the lead, so I added that and expanded the section on his Early career/Padova a bit as well. With Pogba...I'm not sure what to make of it; 120 million would be great, although we would also lose a great player, but we do have good midfielders already and we could possibly go and buy another midfielder and a top striker with that money and rebuild the team in a similar manner to how we rebuilt the team with Zidane's sale. I'm not sure what the best course of action is, also as in my opinion, aside from the few elite players who are aging, there are some very good players, but I'm not sure if I see that many genuine superstar midfielders or strikers around that could really change a match to be honest. Maybe James Rodriguez might be looking to leave Real, and if played as a genuine attacking midfielder and not out of position, if Allegri used the 4-3-1-2, he might be able to capture the form he produced with the national side, but I'm not sure if Real will actually sell him (in my opinion he's more talented, skilful, and creative than Bale, but not as prolific, physically quick, powerful or consistent); if not maybe Isco would be nice. Some midfielders I would really like us to get ideally would be a playmaker like Modric of Verratti, who remind me a bit of Pirlo (not quite as good, but also better defensively), but I don't think Real or PSG would ever sell them unless we negotiated a deal for Pogba in exchange for one of them plus cash. As for strikers...I really don't know who is available who would really make a difference at the moment. Higuain is great, but over-priced at the moment, and although he is usually reliable, I don't know if in the big European matches he is decisive enough to make a difference to the team. I'm wondering if we could get Cavani from PSG for cheap now, as he knows Serie A and I feel like he might be able to rediscover his form with a move back to Italy, playing as a main striker and not having to support another player like Ibra, but I'm just throwing around ideas here. Certainly even Atletico (and Portugal...even Wales and Iceland at the Euros) proved that with a good manager, team spirit, and defensive organisation they can go far even without a lot of money or a team of superstars, and although they have a good side, it's impressive how they have continued to do so well despite losing so many important players to other teams. Best, Messirulez (talk) 14:06, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yes, good job with the heading, I like it and should satisfy the reviewer. I also removed the Baggio assists. Yes, we do have some really great midfielders but Pogba is like no other. It annoys me when people say he's overrated... Sometimes he gets frustrated easily, but the way he operates on the field is amazing. Higuian is definietly not worth it at that price, as we said, and I agree that he is usually reliable, he didn't get Capocannoniere for no reason. But during the big matches, you're probably right, he sometimes chokes. It is obviously evident with Argentina, but even last year with Napoli they had a good league season but got out in the Europa League last 32 only I believe. I was joking about buying Higuain with Pogba's money obviously haha but if we were to sell if I would agree with buying James or even I think Cavani would be a good buy too. But these deals usually fall through just like Ibra to Milan recently. But if the opportunity strikes, we shouldn't need Pogba's money... James would probably be like 60-70M? Somewhere around there. We should have some good money from the CL and what not. I mean Juve were looking to buy Higuain for 94M so I think 70M on James wouldn't be crazy. All we can do is see what happens I guess, hopefully Juve can pick up a great player like him for our attacking forces. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:21, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm...that's a good point, I didn't think about that; I'm not sure if we'll be able to find something on that as Buffon was techically the team's official captain, and I'm not sure if there was another acting captain (possibly Pirlo...or Chiellini or De Rossi in their place I'm guessing - after the 2010 World Cup the old guard like Gattuso, Zambrotta, Camoranesi, Grosso and Iaquinta were gone, no?), but I'll try and find some sources though, as it would be a good additional note to add. If it's not possible to find any, though, then I don't think it's a huge issue either; with Euro 2008 I just thought I should mention it as it was an official tournament. Should we change Buffon's captaincy starting year to 2010 in that case if I can find a source stating that he was captain, but didn't make his first official appearance as captain until 2011? Best, Messirulez (talk) 04:41, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I found some sources and the edit is done now; what do you think? Best regards! Messirulez (talk) 05:55, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Great, thanks! I also added that Buffon was somewhat of a "second acting captain" as he played as captain during Euro 2008 as Del Piero was often on the bench. So I expanded Cannavaro's and his notes, as well as made another note from the record when it says most times served as captain at a Euro championship 2008-2016. I thought it would be good to give an explanation for why it said 2008 there at not 2010 like usual. There are some other cases where the year ranges between two captains skip over a year such as between Cabrini and Bergomi (I don't know what the case was during their time). However, it probably shouldn't be a big deal I guess. That was a pretty cool goal by Blanco eh? You need to get those half field strikes just right, and he did! We did lose in the shootout, but we really weren't playing anyone... And it seems like the Higuain reports are getting stronger...... Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:46, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I know that it's getting a bit ridiculous, and after that where do you stop, but the sources stated that either Pirlo or De Rossi would be captain during Buffon's leave due to injury, and I know De Rossi was captain in the team's first friendly after the 2010 World Cup due to Pirlo's absence, so I thought it was worth mentioning him as well! Now it sems like the Higuain move is almost official, but for 90 million (nice discount...)...well, if so, it's still too much, and I don't know if he's the man to complete the team, but it's still a great purchase and the team certainly would look good with him there as well! Best, Messirulez (talk) 15:39, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: So I guess we'll leave Zambrotta for now, as we probably don't want to make it any more convoluted than it already is! Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about Higuain... I mean Juve is the only club who has shown interest in paying that ridiculous release clause. It is almost certain that his value can only drop with time, so I think it would be the wrong purchase for that kind of money. Pogba on the other hand has interest from many clubs to be another ridiculous price, but several clubs seem like it is worth it and his value won't probably go down much for the next couple years if he continues to play the way he is now. Apparently Higuain's fee can be paid 45 million each year for two years to spread the payment, so it doesn't necessarily mean that we would have to sell Pogba to fund his purchase. There is a lot of commotion going on with the Napoli fans and even Maradona speaking up about how Higuain shouldn't betray Napoli, especially to a rival club. If he does come, I hope he will play with the same intensity he did last season and do better in Europe, didn't he talk down upon Juve last season? Why would we want someone like that on our team? If we really do sell Pogba I also heard the possibility of picking up Rakatic... We'll have to see I guess. And too bad Italy U19 couldn't win, what's with Italy losing 4-0 in finals recently? ahah Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:54, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I hope Higuain turns out to be a good a transfer and not a waste of money...he is a very good striker (although still not at the level of other world class strikers), but the fee is ridiculous; hopefully he and Juve can do well in Europe...I really hope we can win a Champions League soon, and if we do, then regardless of how much we spent on him, I think he would have been worth the fee. Yes, I briefly looked at the Totti review, and to be honest, as I had said before, I didn't think the article was quite good enough yet; I had only tidied up a few things that had been translated incorrectly, but there was still some bias and journalistic writing, etc. and his early career really lacks sources. Will it still get promoted to B-class, however? Or will it remain at C-class? Best, Messirulez (talk) 03:33, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah, if we could win the CL with him playing well and helped to contribute, it would be a worth while buy. And yeah, I didn't nominate Totti as I thought it wasn't really that good enough either, but now that it's nominated, the best we could do is try to not allow it to fail, even though it probably seems like it will... If the reviewer decides to fail it, I'll probably ask him about the C/B rating. It might have to be a FOOTY project reassessment though. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 04:09, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it is pretty much! I had created a page for the IFFHS Playmaker of the Year award, but it was shifted to the IFFHS main page; and yes, I actually followed the format of your article for the Enzo Bearzot award just to make sure the layout was correct, so thanks for that! It's a shame about the Totti article, but hopefully we can get it up to B-class on the assessmente page, and hopefully the Baggio and Del Piero Pages will get promoted! Best, Messirulez (talk) 18:00, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Haha, great, glad I was of help! Yes, a shame for Totti, but at least we have the comments to improve on and hopefully reassessed in the future. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:03, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Hope you didn't mind some of my edits; I saw you had been removing the manager names from the sub-headings and there were a few left so I removed them, and I changed/added a few sub-sections to the Pirlo page; I wasn't sure how the dates should be presented either, so I hope it's ok that I altered them as well! I also added some sub-headings in for the Maldini page as well; what do you think? Like the Totti page, the Maldini page also needs a lot more sources, in my opinion, in order to get it to GA-status; I think the Baggio and Del Piero page have many more citations on the other hand, which is good. I'm just wondering, can you possibly think of a slightly more appropriate name for the 2004–2006 subsection than "struggles" on the Pirlo page? I'm just not really sure what else to put, as Milan definitely had a trophy drought for a few seasons, so on one hand it is appropriate, but at the same time I never thought of them as struggling during that period as to me they were probably the best team in the World, and if they had been a bit more focussed in the 2005 final, and if they hadn't had a goal disallowed in the 2006 semi-final against Barca, they could have probably won a couple more Champiosn League titles (which were their main objective), whereas in Serie A they still finished in second place twice, which is disappointing, but not terrible either. I'm not sure how to split up the Juventus subsections in the Chiellini article either; maybe we could possibly something similar to the other Juventus player pages, such as: breaking into the starting line-up and recognition (2005–2008), post-calciopoli struggles (2008–2011), Recent successes (2011–present)? Thoughts? Best, Messirulez (talk) 05:28, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Not at all, you improved them! The Maldini headings look good; I also added some headings for his international section; fit well? Yes, I was removing the [manager] headings, just in case we get that reviewer for Del Piero again! [Manager] headings are probably not the best anyhow. In all honesty, I thought we had an easier time getting Buffon and Pirlo to GA, although they definitely had more sources, but still had some issues with the headings and the lead. In my opinion, I don't like that "general rule" where you're not supposed to have sources in the lead, especially when you make a statement that "they are considered the best in the world" for example. I would prefer for it to be sourced right then and there. Anyway, with Chiellini, it seems like is 2005-2011 section might be an okay length as it would be hard to split that down any further upon second look? With the 2011-present section, it seems like it will probably get too large with more info this season, so we might have to break it down. Maybe we could do "2011-2014: Newfound success" and then "2015-present: Champions League Final and Fifth consecutive Scudetto" like we have for Buffon? He also had a terrible spell of injuries last season, maybe we can also include something like "... and injury spells"? The only issue with that is that should be a heading for one season since it wouldn't be relevant for a range of years after (probably not enough info just from last season for its own section). Now, with Pirlo, I thought that "struggles " may be most fitting as, yes, Milan was a powerhouse as a team during that time, however, I think "struggles" is referring to Pirlo during that time as even though Milan made it to a CL final and semifinal, he did consider retiring after the 2005 final and that quote he gave there symbolizes struggles as a person to me. Making it to the final is by no means "struggling", (big feat for Juve in 2015 for example), but Milan probably thought they should've won, so that's why it hit hard on Pirlo. I couldn't really think of a better word in that situation after pondering it for 10 minutes... I'm open to other suggestions? Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:29, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi, yes from what I've seen the Pogba article looks quite good, although I just skimmed it and haven't read it in detail. The only thing it would need in my opinion would be sub-sections for individual seasons and tournaments for the Juventus and Senior France national team sections; we should probably also wait to nominate it until the end of the transfer window, as there will probably be a lot of edits by vandals, etc. stating that he has moved to Manchester United, etc.; given Marchisio's injury (and Khedira's precarious physical fitness), I hope he remains, as he's been great and is still improving and I'm not sure if we would be able to find someone of similar quality in the next month, although the funds could potntially allow us to rebuild the team (even though so far I think we have made some really good transfers...I would have probably just like a good left winger in case we wanted to play a 4–3–3). Now it seems he said in an interview in New York that he would be remaining with Juve, although who knows, as there were also rumours that he was signing his old Manchester United shirts in Manchester and that he was negotiating with the club, but his agent has denied this, so it's difficult to know which rumours are actually tue and I guess we will have to wait and see what he and the club decide to do...I had also heard that the club were giving the number 10 shirt to Dybala, so I thought Pogba might be leaving if that were the case, but once again, it could just be a rumour, or maybe something the players had agreed to (although I would think that having to give up the number 10 shirt probably wouldn't make Pogba too pleased...). Yes, I found a bunch of sources for the Totti article, but some parts still need to be removed altogether I think, as there are some passages which have some rather "irrelevant" goals listed, and the prose still needs to be titied up quite a bit as there are still some clunky passages with mistakes and obvious bias; having said that, I think that the article should have enough sources now, which was my main goal! With Barzagli, yes, I saw; I think it seems more likely that he will play for Italy again, but maybe we should wait until the next international to see if he is called up (which I'm sure he will be as Ventura seems to want him to remain) and if he accepts (which he hinted he might), which seems likely, and then we can add this source saying that he reveresed his decision after he had spoken to Ventura. He's still a great defender, who I really like a lot, and he would have been a huge loss, but at the same time, as he's getting older, I was hoping that the time away from the national team might give him more energy for Juve this season, and some experience to younger defenders in the national team, but then again I suppose he doesn't need to play every game for Italy, just the tough ones, and his experience and intelligence is the most important addition that he brings to the team, something which not many other players have. With Juve he can probably be switched up for Benatia or Rugani in the less important Serie A and Coppa Italia matches so that way he is ready for the more demanding Champions League games. Best, Messirulez (talk) 14:05, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Those were exactly my thoughts. Wait until the transfer rumours are over with Pogba (in my view, I think we won't leave) and add some sub sections, clean up Totti a bit more, and see after the next international what happens with Barzagli. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 17:34, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi! This is probably the closest thing I've found to an actualy confirmation; otherwise some sources suspect Dybala will be given the number 10 shirt, but apart from that I haven't seen any official confirmation aside from the articles confirming sales of Dybala #10 Juventus shirts in certain adidas stores rather than Dybala #21 and speculation that he might inherit it due to his important role and similar playing style to Tevez, Baggio, Del Piero, Sivori, etc. I'm not sure if that's a strong enough claim to officially change his number on the page or not. With the Pogba transfer, we were certain he would go to Manchester United these past 4-5 days, but we only changed it when it was officially announced after he had completed his medical; similarly, I'm almost certain Dybala will get the number 10 shirt (unless it gets given to Pjanic...I doubt Marchisio would take it), but I don't know if these sources suffice to confirm this. Best, Messirulez (talk) 15:05, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Well, if the sores are already selling it then it must be true since they would have some issues with upset buyers if it wasn't true... However, as you said, it probably isn't enough to go off of. I was in denial about Pogba until the last day since there were already so many rumours before, this just seemed like another one, but, yes, when it was official, we changed it - and only then. So maybe for now, I'll request some page protection as there isn't definitive sources to go off of just yet. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 16:23, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Looks like Dybala won't take #10 and is apparently definitive.. Odd that Adidas already started selling his name on the back of #10. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:07, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Well that's a shame...I was hoping to see him wear it and carry on the tradition, as he is definitely that kind of creative and skilful second striker who seems like he could really be something special; I suppose it's only a number, and some really great players (although not really forwards) have certainly worn the number 21 shirt (like Zidane - although I always thought he disappeared in the biggest games - and Pirlo, and Thuram even wore it). Not sure why adidas would sell the Dybala Juventus jerseys with number 10 on them either... Best, Messirulez (talk) 18:17, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

No, not to worry (I hope it didn't seem like I was stern or anything; I never know how anything I write comes across over something as impersonal as the internet, hence why I added the :) smiley face, haha); it was my bad, and yes I should have probably added in another citation after the full stop, as it definitely didn't look like it was sourced. Best, Messirulez (talk) 04:47, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: All is well :). Thanks for adding the refname tags. I also added a couple refs to his early international career section as those were the only sentences I could find from a quick glance that didn't have sources. I've now nominated Pogba for GA considering everything looks pretty good; I've shrunk down the lead a bit with response to talk page comments; I think it's reasonable now, and also considering that the Man U talks are now confirmed. I noticed in the lead that it states some of his attributes that would be probably more suitable for a "Style of play" section (which I know you are fond of creating for footballers! :) No rush at all, just a thought if you have time between now and then. It also looks like Messi has changed his mind about retiring internationally eh? Surprise, surprise, hahah. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 05:19, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

1934 WC

Italian book "Almanacco Panini" denotes the match as "ottavi di finale", round of 16 in English: en fact, there were 16 teams for 8 matches played. --Sean Ago (talk) 14:08, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

@Sean Ago: Yes, I know ottavi di finale means round of 16 in English, which I saw on the it.wiki for the 1934 and 1938 WC. However, FIFA does not classify it as a round of 16 for either edition, but rather preliminary or Round 1. @Tanonero: what do you think? The change is in question at Italy at the FIFA World Cup, but could also affect consistency at other pages. Thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:11, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

@Sean Ago and Vaselineeeeeeee: If I had to choose between the FIFA's or the Panini's definition of that round as the more correct, I would definitely stick with the former. --Tanonero (msg) 15:08, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Nicknames for Halifax, Nova Scotia

Hi there! I'm trying to find some reliable sources for nicknames used for the city of Halifax, Nova Scotia for the article List of city nicknames in Canada, since you said the nicknames "Hali" and "The Fax" were not sourced. Could you help me find some reliable sources where these nicknames are mentioned. NovaBrunswick 15:26, 26 July 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by NovaBrunswick (talk • contribs)

@NovaBrunswick: Hi. I really tried to find better sources for Hali and the Fax, but had no luck... I just wanted to ask you since I assumed you live in the East Coast so maybe you knew of some, but I'll certainly try again. Do you believe that these are even nicknames that they use in Halifax? Maybe that's why we can't find sources? All I could find was Haligonia. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:40, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

@Vaselineeeeeeee: Haligonia is the name of a news website and blog which covers the Halifax region, so it might be a nickname. There's also Halifornia, HFX and YHZ (from the code for the Halifax Robert Stanfield International Airport). User:NovaBrunswick 16:13, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Francesco Totti GA Nomination

Hi Vas, thank you for running with the improvements on the Francesco Totti page. It's not a page I have contributed much to but on first glance it looked worthy of a GA nomination. I'll start helping out with the improvements once the weekend comes around. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 06:43, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

@Liam E. Bekker: No problem. The reviewer didn't seem to think it was good enough from the start. To be honest, I think he was a tad hard. We had a much easier time to get Andrea Pirlo and Gianluigi Buffon to GA, although those articles were probably in a little better shape anyway. I wish the reviewer would've kept the nom open for a little longer to correct more things, but he felt there were too many unsourced sentences, and probably rightfully so, even though I and a couple others fixed a lot already. Maybe if you want to work on the lead? He says it has serious issues. I also nominated Alessandro Del Piero and Roberto Baggio for GA nom not too long ago, so if you want to take a look, feel free. I wasn't expecting the Totti nom to be reviewed so fast considering it was probably under a week old! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 12:44, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Gelato ENGVAR

Gelato doesn't have strong national ties to the US, but I assume it doesn't have any to England or Australia or any other English speaking region either? MOS:STRONGNAT is only concerned with English-speaking countries - an article about an Italian subject would use (and MOS:RETAIN) whichever version of English it happened to be created in. --McGeddon (talk) 12:53, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

@McGeddon: It probably doesn't have ties to other English speaking countries either, however my understanding is, whenever not about a U.S. subject, we usually tend to use the English variation that is standard in all other English speaking countries. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 12:58, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

No, "The English Wikipedia prefers no major national variety of the language over any other." If it's a subject with ties to a non-English-speaking country, or with no ties to any particular country at all, we just go with whatever form of English it happened to be written in, and stick with that. --McGeddon (talk) 13:11, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

@McGeddon: Okay, thanks for the info. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:16, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Milan clubs + patrolling

Hey man, could you do me a favor and just check on the season articles for the Milan clubs and make sure they're to the exact specifications as our other articles? They tend to attract less than competent editors (usually IP addresses). Thanks a bunch. Italia2006 (talk) 15:15, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: I'll do my best. I've also noticed that they are edited a lot by IP users, often too many to track. Also, sorry I haven't added more of the fixture to club articles, I haven't really been able to lately... I'll try to update more in the coming weeks. Also thanks for fixing that error in the opening sentence of the Pescara season article. That's the problem when we copy and paste, we (I) sometimes forget to change things for that specific club. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:29, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Completely agree, and yeah I think today I'm going to make a big push to finish off the season fixtures for all of the clubs. Italia2006 (talk) 15:44, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Southern Italy

Might I ask why you reverted my edit? That page needs a disclaimer, since the history and culture sections as well do not include Sardinia.--Dk1919 (talk) 12:03, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

@Dk1919 Franking: You wrote: "Sardinia is therefore not included in much of this article; the user may read the "history" and "culture" sections in the page focussing on the island." It is already written that Sardinia is often included only for statistical purposes. Sardinia is also talked about quite a bit in regards to the Kingdom of Sardinia. Some parts of Lazio, as stated in the lead, are considered Southern Italy, however, are not talked about much in the article. The disclaimer you added also is not written encyclopedically and if the user really wants to read more about Sardinia, they can just click the country's link. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:43, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Useless words

Nothing special, just want to say, why, why, and why? It is really sad that you lose the best player but money. Can't understand. Troubleo.WS 🍁 ^Talk 00:06, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Hi there. Are you referring to Pogba? It's not official yet, but seems to be getting there as he is now undergoing a medical supposedly... I really didn't think he would leave despite all the rumours, and I still don't think he'll leave to be honest... I hope he will stay as Juve this year will be strong contenders for the UCL, but only time will tell if he really stays. And if he really gets sold, hopefully we can buy a couple great players with the huge sum of money. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 00:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes. Everyone knows now we have a big plan for this season. But gonna be without him (I have to say 99.9%). He is only 23 years old. This transfer is the most ridiculous one I have seen in the past 20 years or more within Juve. Rather than Zidane because he was 29 years old when it happened. Have to move on. And to see the next great player signed by Juve. Troubleo.WS 🍁 ^Talk 01:32, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Looks like you were right... Sad to see him go, especially back to his old club which didn't believe in him much. If he wasn't with Juve, he surly wouldn't have developed into the world class player he is today. I guess we needed some money from Higuain's transfer, but now hopefully we can put this money to good use and buy a couple really good players. Maybe Matuidi? We'll see. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 00:42, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

@Vaselineeeeeeee: Comparing with Matuidi, I am preferring Witsel. It is hard to buy player from PSG, especially the agent of Matuidi is Raiola too. But anyways, at least we have a good squad this year so far. Let's see what will happen. Troubleo.WS 🍁 ^Talk 03:36, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Yeah, we should still be good for the running of the Champions League. I just wish more players were like Bonucci and Buffon who would turn down money for the club they love. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 03:39, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

@Vaselineeeeeeee: It looks protection of Dybala's page is only valid for ip editor. There is still having editors keeping spawning #10 instead of #21. Any further protection? Troubleo.WS 🍁 ^Talk 13:29, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Yes, I requested the page protection, and it's only good for a week, so hopefully it stops by then, or I'd have to request more. It does seem like he will get the #10 shirt as Pogba is gone and some Adiads stores have already started selling his name on the back of a #10 jersey, we still don't have a real definitive source yet. Maybe leave a kind message on the non-IP editor's talk page to inform him of the situation; further protection is probably not necessary right now unless it keeps persisting. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:32, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Looks like Dybala won't take #10 and is apparently definitive. I'll add it to his talk page to let people know. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:07, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

@Vaselineeeeeeee: Yes. And the official list of numbers for registered players is released here [2]. Troubleo.WS 🍁 ^Talk 18:12, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

By the way for goalkeeper Audero, here is last discussion of page deletion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emil Audero. I am not very clear about the rules even after I read those. When will it be available to create a page for him? After his senior official debut? But it is very hard to get a chance as a third goalkeeper.Troubleo.WS 🍁 ^Talk 18:17, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Yeah, I noticed that. You can only create a footballer once he's made his first appearance for a professional league, so as it stands, he won't be able to have a page until then no matter if it's difficult for him to start. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 19:09, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Haha. Yes I understood. May be they can think about changing these rules because goalkeeper is the most special position on pitch. It only has 1 spot but usually has 3 choice. Laughing :P Troubleo.WS 🍁 ^Talk 19:29, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Hahaa, keepers are very important, I was one myself when I played, very important to control the pitch. However, I think these rules are sound because if they aren't this way, then we'll get people creating hundreds of articles for players who aren't notable. Yes, it's hard for keepers to get a start since there is only one position, however, if you want to ask about the rules, do it at WT:FOOTY. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 19:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

@Vaselineeeeeeee: Higuain now holds the fifth world most expensive transfer record I think. Not 3rd anymore. List of most expensive association football transfers. Do we need to update 2016-17 season's page for it? Thanks. Troubleo.WS 🍁 ^Talk 17:20, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Hi. It should be fine since at the time of the transfer he was the third highest transfer. You can just add the words "at the time" so readers know it has changed if you want. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 17:45, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

@Vaselineeeeeeee: Looks we need another round of page protection for Dybala. IP editors still keep changing his number to #10. Funny. Troubleo.WS 🍁 ^Talk 14:08, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Hi again. Yes, it's odd why people are still changing that as it has already been made official he's wearing 21 and even wore it during their opening league match. I will request another round of protection at WP:RFPP, however, in the future, you can also do it, it is pretty easy :) regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:32, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Derby d'Italia

Hi, there's a Juventus fan-made site:

All games All-time record

Or Inter's official site (but it looks lieke it's a couple of games short):

All games

mgSH 22:37, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

@Omgosh30: Thanks! Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 23:58, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Hamilton three families

Hi, Vaselineeeeeeee. I was working on that a long time ago, I was going to create a article Buffalo crime family's Canadian faction"

Read website http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/organized-crime/

you'll get the basic on the story of the Canadian Mafia families more about ethnicity when the groups were divided then in the US.

1. The Buffalo crime family had a lot of groups and leaders in Ontario (Hamilton, Niagara falls and Toronto)

-Hamilton leaders were Papalia crime family, Luppino crime family and Musitano crime family after the murder of Rocco Perri

-Toronto leaders most active were Paul Volpe and Johnny "Pops" Papalia

---

now Toronto is under the control of the Siderno Group – is the name for the "'Ndrangheta" clans (crime families). There are 7 clans operating in the Greater Toronto Area. Each 'Ndrina is headed by a boss who represents them on the Board of Control. The Siderno clans are part of the Commisso 'ndrina a crime family based in Calabria, Italy.

2. Bonanno crime family of NYC (rackets in Quebec) it was divided into ethnic groups

You can take over my work, use my references. Been busy with work and don't have the time. If you need help I can give some advice. Your going to need a lot more references and it might get confusing the Buffalo crime family and family war after Magaddino war. There three Hamilton family's (I would call them crews) since they worked for the Buffalo crime family. --Vic49 (talk) 21:00, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

The Siderno Group is not associated with the Buffalo crime family --Vic49 (talk) 21:03, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

@Vic49: Thanks for the response, I'll see what I can do with the info. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:50, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Who gets the clean sheet?

I usually have the answer for everything when it comes to inputting information into the articles, but I have a dilemma. Today Fiorentina beat Chievo 1–0, but two different goalkeepers played (Ciprian Tătărușanu was replaced by Luca Lezzerini because of an injury). Who gets the clean sheet in the statistics section? Italia2006 (talk) 00:39, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: The only plausible answer would be to give it to both, wouldn't it? They both played, and both let in no goals. If we need more of an input, maybe ask at WT:FOOTY. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 00:50, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: If that's not allowed, then I would say give it to the last keeper who played. If you look at 2016-17 Serie A, an editor has given the clean sheet to Lezzerini. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 01:09, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

I gave it to Lezzerini on the Fiorentina season article also. Italia2006 (talk) 02:57, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Okay, sounds good. I suppose giving it to both technically wouldn't be allowed, so yes, the last keeper who played should get it. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 10:42, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Goalscorer tables

Could you do me a favor and re-add every single goalscorer table in all of the articles? Thank you. Italia2006 (talk) 16:08, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Ok so I re-added all of them with the exception of the Milan clubs because I couldn't simply revert in those instances. SuperJew is correct concerning the assists tables, but the goalscorer table does several things the "appearances and goals" table does not, as I enumerated at SuperJew's talk page. Italia2006 (talk) 16:25, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

One more thing I forgot to add: could you, therefore, re-add the tables in the Milan club articles for me? Besides that just do general upkeep and make sure they're in line with the rest. I know I've mentioned this before, but for some reason the Milan clubs tend to attract a lot of well-meaning but generally not-so-good editors. Italia2006 (talk) 16:35, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Agreed on the removal of assists and importance of goalscorer table. Done on the Milan articles. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:42, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

not convention?

What do you mean by that? Govvy (talk) 13:02, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

And 1 5th of the teams, say they are in the US. So again, what convention are you talking about?? Govvy (talk) 13:15, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Govvy: Look at Montreal Impact, Vancouver Whitecaps, Columbus Crew SC, La Galaxy... All "City, Province/State". Those are the ones I checked that follow the use of no country. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:20, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I only did the edit after I looked at the first two teams listed on the MLS page, Chicago Fire Soccer Club and Columbus Crew SC because they both had US. Govvy (talk) 13:55, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Govvy: Oh, I wouldn't be opposed to it in the lead, however in the infobox, it just clogs things up and in the infobox, neither of the clubs include the country. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:58, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Help

He's still complaining about the goals table, help me out here. Italia2006 (talk) 17:47, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Strike that, hold off for now. But be on the lookout if he tampers with the articles further. Revert it immediately as vandalism. Italia2006 (talk) 18:01, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Just reference him to other BPL teams like 2016-17 Arsenal F.C. season that use it, surely there are more. I really don't know why he's complaining about them and not the clean sheet table though. Those can be somewhat unverifiable like the example you asked me about a couple weeks ago. But anyway, if he reverts, I'll point him to it. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:05, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Ok now I need help. I pinged you at the relevant page. Italia2006 (talk) 18:06, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Not to be redundant, but you are urgently needed at the page in question whenever you are able. Italia2006 (talk) 18:26, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Sorry, I stepped out for a bit. I've now given my opinion on the FOOTY page. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:33, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

No problem, saw that. I have to tell you, I've been doing this for a longggg time and this is the first time I've ever seen anyone have such an anal objection to something on the Italian club season articles. Never been anything like this. I don't understand this guy at all. Italia2006 (talk) 18:35, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Yeah, you've been around since like 2010 or something doing this right? I don't really get it either...I mean anyone is allowed to contribute to anything, but I agree that he hasn't contributed to Serie A season articles until now with this mass deletion. I mean why not delete it from BPL articles too if he's all about consistency? Why pick Serie A?? Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:38, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, like I said I've been doing this forever and I've never seen this kind of intrusion. I don't know why he's become so obsessed. As for the questions you pose, your guess is as good as mine. Italia2006 (talk) 18:40, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I have to be honest, I have roughly zero respect for people like this, people who don't do any work whatsoever on the project but who suddenly decide to disrupt everything and "fix" it. I find this extremely irritating. Italia2006 (talk) 18:44, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Yeah it's kind of a waste of time...it's being nit picky, really. It's not a repetition like he says. The goalscorer table is an organization of the info in a different relevant way. Also, I'll just say I appreciate your work on all the Italian season articles, I know it takes a ton of work as I just focus really on two, and sometimes the Milan articles like you've asked. I know you probably don't think that I'm being "lazy" by not helping much with the other Serie A articles, but I'll just say this anyway: You may or may not have noticed but I did a lot of work in the summer on expanding List of Juventus F.C. seasons, List of S.S. Lazio seasons, List of S.S. Lazio players, adding a shit load of matches to complete all the Derby della Mole meetings as well as the Derby d'Italia ones. Now, I've been trying to add them all to the newly created article Juventus F.C. – A.C. Milan rivalry, although, not nearly done. Anyway, we all have work to do :) Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:52, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Trust me, I notice everything. It's really something to finally have a partner in all this. I was a fair ways by myself for a couple of years, so the work you do is absolutely vital. As for considering you lazy, I never have. Italia2006 (talk) 18:54, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: :D Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:59, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I added one more reason on the page for why I won't countenance the removal of the goalscorer table or any change beyond removing the assists. It's not necessary, we're not fixing what isn't broken, and having different analyses of the same information is not the same as redundancy. Italia2006 (talk) 21:17, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Exactly. It seems as he will let up on the idea of removal of goalscoring tables. I just wonder how Bigdottawa will take the removal of the assists table as he seemed adamant of their inclusion. He hasn't really edited Serie A season articles much, but he is a really good proponent for the creation and updating of Coppa Italia seasons. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 23:06, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

It's funny but I was going to mention that. We need to combine and sort of sooth him over the assists loss, because there's simply no arguing it anyway. You and I can approach him together or separately and bring him on board. Italia2006 (talk) 23:27, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Let's see what he does when he gets back online and deal with it if he starts reverting or adds to the discussion. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 23:44, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. Italia2006 (talk) 00:13, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Last update

Hey man I'm sorry to keep bombarding you with this stuff, but I wanted to let you know I've left a final comment: I consider this matter closed. No one else has commented on the thread, I've made my concrete points, and he seems to have backed off. I'm calling it. Just in time for the Sunday kick-offs, too. Italia2006 (talk) 04:30, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Yeah, I think he's let off too, but Bigdottawa has still not gotten back online. But you can't really argue for assits anymore as I've seen the many discussions to get rid of them. Anyway, that will be SuperJew's and Bidottawa's problem to hash out as I really don't mind either way. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:20, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Same. SuperJew recently tagged me in something else, trying to argue his "contribution" to Italian football articles, but I haven't and will not be looking at it as I'm not concerned with it. Like I said, matter closed. Italia2006 (talk) 13:23, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Hey, I saw that on SuperJew's talk page, and noticed in the Brescia Calcio season he removed the [LINK Report] to just LINK for match reports. Where do we stand on this? I've always used the brackets and Report at the end for the report parameter for season articles and national team's... Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:30, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

It's fine, I've been meaning to do that myself with all the seasons. What happened was they must have changed the report parameter in the footballbox collapsible so that you no longer need the brackets and "Report". In the past you did though, so no one is in error here. But what he did is correct. Italia2006 (talk) 14:08, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Ah, I see. I didn't realize that was a thing. I'll stop using the unnecessary brackets and report then. Maybe if I have time later I'll go around and remove them for Juve and Lazio's first. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:24, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: He's also removed the stack parameter...? Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:01, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Wait what? Do you notice a change or? I mean, does it look the same regardless? Maybe they really changed the parameters around and we just haven't realized it till now. Italia2006 (talk) 15:13, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Wow, they did change it. "Stack" has been rendered unnecessary my friend. What a crazy world we live in. Italia2006 (talk) 15:18, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

We can now go ahead and remove every single stack parameter. That's going to take quite a while perhaps but hey, it's part of the job (or hobby). Italia2006 (talk) 15:19, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: 2012–13 Brescia Calcio season, didn't really notice a change. 2016–17 Manchester City F.C. season doesn't use them either but then 2016–17 Chelsea F.C. season does. This is what happens when you change parameters...some users don't realize and everything is left un-updated. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:20, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Injury icons

Hi, thanks for the note on my talk page. Did you read the entire section I referenced, or just the heading and first comment? As the discussion evolved, it covers both using icons and texts to denote injury status, and the consensus was not to use either. Take another look through the discussion and you'll see what I'm referring to. CUA 27 (talk) 21:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

@CUA 27: Ah, I guess you are referring to the comment made by a user, "Delete on sight. Per WP:RECENTISM, WP:OR, WP:BLP (must be a BLP violation having any sort of unsourced injury indicator next to a person's name), MOS:#Avoid entering textual information as images, to name but a few." There never was a real consensus though...The discussion sort of just ended abruptly...In any case, they probably don't belong as pointed out. Did you check all the national teams, or only went through a few so far? Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:41, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

I went through a few men's and a couple of women's. Many articles don't use any injury indicator, but there are some that use the Red Cross icon and some that use the INJ text. I'll probably check a few more over the weekend, but I don't have the patience to check >100 articles. Just to be clear, are you planning on undoing your reverts of my changes? I'd like to rid those articles of the injury indicator, but I don't want to hurriedly revert you in case you wanted to discuss further. CUA 27 (talk) 21:52, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

@CUA 27: I've revoked my edits to Italy and Canada women's, those are the pages I watch, didn't care much for reverting you any further before we discussed briefly. Like you, I don't plan on checking hundreds of articles, so the main ones should be good for now. I've also noticed the "RET" text beside player names before, I wonder if those should be allowed. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:57, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, and thanks for raising the issue for discussion on my talk page rather than mass reverting. Good question about RET text. On the one hand it's not as bad as INJ because RET is usually permanent. On the other hand if a player is retired and is no longer in the player pool for the national team, why not just erase them from the recent call ups section. Interesting question, I haven't checked the Footy talk page archives to see if it has been discussed before. CUA 27 (talk) 23:01, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

2016–17 Serie A Positions by round

Dude I just noticed no one updated the Positions by round table on the main Serie A season article for Round 3 or Round 4. If you can could you knock that out? I was in Toronto for the weekend so I'm reviewing all the individual season articles for the past round at the moment. Italia2006 (talk) 13:27, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Sure, I'll take care of it by the end of the day. Hey, you were in Toronto, I'm from there. Is that where you're from? Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 16:02, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

No, I'm from New York City, but I was visiting with some friends to see the New York Red Bulls play Toronto FC. Italia2006 (talk) 16:41, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Oh cool, I've been to NYC before, lots of similarities to Toronto. Hope you enjoyed it here. Isn't NY Red Bulls based in New Jersey though? Altidore lit it up in the end to come back, gave us playoff confirmation! NYCFC is doing pretty good, and I would love to see them play live with Piro and Villa etc. I've seen Giovinco play, going to a game soon in fact. He was signing autographs at one of our shopping malls in Toronto last week so it was nice to get him to sign one of my TFC shirts. He's a real shrimp at 5'4"! I like going to away games too, fun to support your team away from home, haven't done that for TFC yet, but I've been to Buffalo a few times to see the Leafs play. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 17:09, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: The table is now updated. I wonder if we should remove the assist table from the main Serie A season article as well? Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 22:08, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah man I definitely enjoyed myself in Toronto, really nice people there. Visited the Hockey Hall of Fame which was awesome, really nicely put together. As far as the main Serie A article assists table goes, I would actually leave it for now. I couldn't help but notice that all of the La Liga season articles have an assists section, and no one, for years, has ever removed them. I include the current season in that as well. Italia2006 (talk) 22:15, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Clean sheets

So I've been researching the association football rules concerning clean sheets, and apparently the two goalkeepers both get credited for the clean sheet if they both played. I have to figure out a good and concise way to reflect this in the statistics, but that's how we're supposed to do it apparently. Italia2006 (talk) 03:58, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Oh really? Where'd you see that? Is it a recent rule to give it to both keepers? As you know Buffon and Neto both played yesterday and so have the possibility of the clean sheet. That's what I initially suggested when you first raised the issue, but didn't know for sure. On Buffon's page under records I didn't tally the clean sheet, how do we know if the total is correct now? In the stats section of season articles, why not just tally both, or are you thinking of trying to think of a way to notify the reader that they both got it for one of the matches?

I would say the latter option is what I have in mind. Italia2006 (talk) 12:26, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Also with regards to removing hte [LINK Report] and stack parameters, I see you've started going through and knocking them out one by one, but why don't we just request for a bot to do this mundane task across all seasons? Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 11:06, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm afraid the bot will "fix" other things that are actually already correct. But if we could get a bot to strictly removed the brackets, "Report"s and stack parameters, that would be awesome. Italia2006 (talk) 12:26, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Maybe we can use a +1 system for substitute clean sheets similar to the process we do for substitute appearances?

Can you link me to the rule you found? Is it by FIFA? Maybe we should bring it up at the FOOTY talk page for consistency across the project if there already isn't. Also, maybe I'll make a bot request to see if they think it would be feasible for a bot to do such a task. There seems to be a bit of a backlog on the request page, but I'll see what happens. Beats going to every page and changing it by hand! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:14, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

I've now asked if a bot would be possible on the bot request page. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 02:17, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Minor tweaks to 2016–17 Juventus F.C. season

Hey man I just wanted to let you know I made some minor alterations to the changes you had made to the Juventus article. For some reason we used to represent Dani Alves as the full name in the infoboxes, but that was changed to just his last name, so that was the first change I made. The second was a minor change to the clean sheets; in the "Totals" area I changed it by subtracting one, because I don't want people to get the impression that Juventus have had six clean sheet matches as opposed to actually having five instead. Let me know if you have any concerns. Cheers, Italia2006 (talk) 00:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Wow, what a moron I am sometimes. Completely disregard the entire part about Dani Alves; I didn't realize that they've now decided to make it "Dani Alves" again. Italia2006 (talk) 00:40, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: No problem. If you could just link me that site you got the clean sheet rule from that would be great. Thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 00:44, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I just realized my source isn't the best (or actually qualifies as a source, for that matter) but at the time I actually had some trouble finding any material on the matter, so here goes: [3] Italia2006 (talk) 01:11, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: hhaha reddit, love that page, however, obviously not reliable as it's a forum. I also found a similar explanation on quora but who knows! I'm going to ask our standing on this on the talk FOOTY as a project. If it turns out they are both counted, the Fiorentina season page should be also updated like the Juve one (the first clean sheet concern you brought up to me). Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 01:19, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Yep, sounds good. Italia2006 (talk) 01:25, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

My talk page

I'm not sure if you're in the mood for a laugh, but take a look at this message this IP address user left on my talk page. I had warned him against repeatedly removing players from the "Appearances and goals" table at 2016–17 A.S. Roma season, and his response was that he had "been maintaining that table for years". Why is this hilarious? Because I know that claim is impossible: I've been the one doing that for years. Check it out. Italia2006 (talk) 17:12, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Hahaha yeah that's funny, he's obviously wrong. He originally put his message at the top of the page, but I moved it to the bottom. Ever think of making archives for your huge talk page? Just a thought. You probably noticed the discussion I made , WT:FOOTY#Who gets the clean sheet?. I think the users who responded make sense. I don't think we should follow the fantasy football rule, but I, like the others think this is an unsourceable matter, but we should probably just keep it as the last keeper who played (some think it should take the whole 90 and neither should get it...). Most of the stats on clean sheets probably don't include substitute clean sheets, so to stay consistent I don't think we should start now. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:27, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

So you're saying in that 4–0 over Cagliari Neto should get it or? Italia2006 (talk) 00:27, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: I suppose. It's hard to say, I don't think it should go to both though, contrary to my initial thought. It is quite possible neither of them get it as well. I could ask another one of my wikipals that I talk to about Juve every so often if he knows anything (he doesn't edit season pages often, but is very knowledgeable with personal statistics such as clean sheets.) He is also a native of Italy so he knows Italian well and could possibly find some sources that are available and accessible in that language. I don't know how good your Italian is, but mine isn't where I'd like it to be (actually starting to take some classes to broaden my understanding). Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 00:32, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

My Italian is actually pretty good, but I agree, run it by your friend and let's see. It's just weird for me to think that Neto should get it since Buffon played the first half. I'm actually very surprised there isn't a concrete rule about this to be found anywhere it seems. Italia2006 (talk) 00:48, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Even if your Italian is good, we live in North America where English sources come up in Google, however in Italy, obviously their sources (in Italian, which probably have more or better info on this topic than we have) will come up more quickly and accessibly when you search for them. You could always change your Google's language to Italian and try to search in Italian if you can, but I can never seem to search for the right thing when I try. I'm also surprised not to see a rule on this...Hopefully Messirulez knows of or can find something. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 00:55, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: This is what he said "Hmmm...I'm really not sure about the clean-sheet issue; I thought that if the team doesn't concede goals at all, then the goalkeeper who comes on gets the clean-sheet, not the one who has been substituted (even if they haven't conceded), so I don't think it counts as a Buffon clean-sheet, but to be honest I don't know for sure as I have also heard conflicting information and I haven't really found any sources to back this up either. I have also heard in the past that a clean sheet is only awarded for not conceding and playing at least 60 minutes, but once again I'm not sure if those are the official rules or not."

So I'm not really sure what to do, but I'm still leaning towards just giving it to Neto as that's what we most likely would've done in the past.

Also, I'm going to delete the kit lists in the Roma season articles if there is no objection. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:15, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Could you do me a favor? Hold off for just a week with the kit lists, just because they're in all the Italian Wikipedia season articles and I thought they were an interesting addition. As for the clean sheets issue, for the time being I think it best to indicate that both goalkeepers played until we have some sort of solid information. Regards, Italia2006 (talk) 14:20, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Okay, no problem, doesn't really matter to me, but the Fiorentina article should also list it like that if we're gonna do it that way this year. I'm not adding it to Buffon's grand total on his wikipage, however as I don't think we've counted them to that total before. Also, with the kits, I'm pretty sure we shouldn't have them although "interesting", no other English wiki articles have them from the big ones that I've quickly searched through. So for consitency's sake we shouldn't include them . I could ask on FOOTY; I think majority would say to remove it because it is just superfluous info. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:28, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Okay sure, no problem. I'll update the Fiorentina article as well then. Italia2006 (talk) 14:29, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: So I asked it on FOOTY and someone referenced WP:NOTGALLERY and immediately took it upon himself to delete it. Sorry about that, but I really don't think all the kits should belong, just the standard ones in the infobox. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:46, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

That's cool man, I'm hardly heartbroken. Italia2006 (talk) 14:52, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: Good, good; I'll just remove them from the previous seasons as well. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:53, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

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