User talk:Seraphim System/Archive 11

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Views/Day Quality Title Tagged with…
177 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: Start Ottoman Turks (talk) Add sources
118 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: Start Chalcedonian Definition (talk) Add sources
34 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: C Israeli legislative election, 2003 (talk) Add sources
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55 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: NA, Predicted class: C Mongolian military ranks (talk) Add sources
67 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Start Shanklish (talk) Add sources
4 Quality: High, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: GA Presidency of Shimon Peres (talk) Cleanup
27 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: C Holocaust studies (talk) Cleanup
195 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: B, Predicted class: B Targeted killing (talk) Cleanup
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727 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: C, Predicted class: B Airship (talk) Expand
18 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: C Thirty-third government of Israel (talk) Expand
212 Quality: High, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: GA Israeli Labor Party (talk) Unencyclopaedic
293 Quality: High, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: GA Panzerotti (talk) Unencyclopaedic
1,366 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: C, Predicted class: B Arianism (talk) Unencyclopaedic
34 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Start Āsh (talk) Merge
550 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: B Racial policy of Nazi Germany (talk) Merge
71,144 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: C, Predicted class: B XXXTentacion (talk) Merge
38 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Stub Mihai Brestyan (talk) Wikify
463 Quality: High, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: FA Propaganda in Nazi Germany (talk) Wikify
62 Quality: High, Assessed class: B, Predicted class: GA Moshe Ya'alon (talk) Wikify
15 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: NA, Predicted class: C Ottoman Exile (talk) Orphan
4 Quality: Medium, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: C Wir Juden (talk) Orphan
2 Quality: Low, Assessed class: NA, Predicted class: Stub Oleg Grinevsky (talk) Orphan
6 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Start Third Council of Ephesus (talk) Stub
15 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Start Shafiq Fayadh (talk) Stub
90 Quality: Low, Assessed class: NA, Predicted class: Start Kalinga Stadium (talk) Stub
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This week's article for improvement (week 32, 2018)

A selection of MDMA pills, which are sometimes used as a club drug.
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The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Club drug

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14:05, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.12 30 July 2018

Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months. (Purge)

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This week's article for improvement (week 33, 2018)

Anna Anka is a Swedish-American model, actress and author.
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The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Anna Anka

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Please comment on Talk:Imran Awan

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Glyphosate-based formulations

Just a note that I redirected your recent new article back to glyphosate. That's in part because it's not the Roundup article that had been discussed, but also that such a title is entirely redundant to the glyphosate article (more so than if it was Roundup). Please read the discussion so far on the talk page. You were already aware that there were issues with doing this, so do be mindful of needing to hash out such details in discussions of sandboxes first. Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:35, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

I undid this, no it's not. No editor needs your approval to create independent notable articles and you absolutely can not just blank them because WP:JDL. There is a ton of content in that article that your redirect blanked without justification and none of what you are saying above is accurate or supported by reliable sources. There are important regulatory differences in how the two are treated, especially in the EU. Seraphim System (talk) 15:38, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Read my message below first that I wrote before your reply. Anything in that article was either already redundant with the glyphosate article or far from WP:DUE, which you were already cautioned about in talk page discussion. Again, please slow down and come to the article talk page. Some of this touches on WP:FRINGE territory, so we already need to be careful, but you're also missing important scientific details with DUE in mind that are tripping you up right now. Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:50, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict)I just saw the revert notification. Please keep in mind it was not article blanking. As I said above, you were already aware this was going to be a problem based on discussion already. You're also in violation of WP:1RR, so please undo your revert and slow down a bit. The expectation is that when someone makes a new edit and it gets reverted, they need to gain consensus for it. Also, please keep in mind that it becomes disruptive when someone says they are going to charge ahead without gaining consensus and labeling anyone calling that out as disruptive. This isn't a shoot first and ask questions later type of topic. Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:52, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
I didn't know about 1RR or that this was an Arbitration area otherwise I would have immediately filed a complaint at AE. This isn't only a science article. This a law and history of agriculture article. Splitting them is completely appropriate and there is support for it on the talk page. You can address issues about what you think is FRINGE or UNDUE at the article talk page or at noticeboards, not by blanking the article. And no editor needs a consensus to create a new article - there are tons of sources for this, like all the content about alfalfa that you blanked that isn't discussed in the Glyphosate article. If editors want to discuss moving the title to Roundup or something like this, that is fine, but it should be handled through a RM proposal, not page blanking. Completely unacceptable. Seraphim System (talk) 15:57, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Though I would point out that reverting page blanking is within 1RRNO but I will prefer AE to edit warring if it is repeated.Seraphim System (talk) 15:59, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
There is no WP:1RRNO, but the fact remains that you were already cautioned about this in discussion and didn't gain consensus for this. Take my advice and slow down. Editors who come in hot-headed into this topic like you are doing right now pretty much always end up burning themselves out and missing important details, especially since you are mistakenly citing JDL. There was also caution about such an article turning into a WP:POVFORK in thos same discussions, which is what some of your edits are already introducing. I'm going to wait and see what other editors do for cleanup first, but after cleanup, it's looking like we're just going to mirror glyphosate as it is. Also, do not misrepresent my edits. No WP:BLANK occurred. That was a WP:REDIRECT that you were already aware was going to happen based on talk page conversation if the page was created haphazardly without some guiding discussion. Kingofaces43 (talk) 16:10, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
If you want to make changes to the page then propose those or discuss them. I'm not a science expert, I'm a law expert. my educational background is in law. The issue of the different levels of regulations is significant. The EFSA has made the di stinction, it is formally supported and it is discussed by high quality secondary WP:RS. Not everything about this topic is about science. There is also enough content and history to create a standalone article about Roundup Ready Corn by the way. There is no policy anywhere in Wikipedia that says everything about this needs to be added to one article. That's not how article creation works.Seraphim System (talk) 16:22, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Again, please slow down. No one is an expert here at Wikipedia. We all just need competence in the subject matter, and in the intersection you are talking about, we need it both in the science and the law. The alfalfa stuff isn't really germane to an article about specific formulations, and you're frequently relying on known fringe sources like Carey Gilliam, USRTK, etc. You're starting down a path that ends up with those editors often topic-banned, so I'm trying to give you some guidance to head that off, especially since it looks like you've had problems with in the past. Kingofaces43 (talk) 17:03, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
It sounds like you want to file a complaint at AE, which is not something I can help you with. Can you show me the noticeboard discussion about Carey Gillam as a source? I'm relying on the Guardian which published this, so I don't really see how this is FRINGE.Seraphim System (talk) 17:08, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
On Gilliam, see for example [6] and [7]. Not for a moment saying that those are RS that could be used in a BLP, but they give some of the background about why her writing on glyphosate should be treated with substantial caution. This is an incredibly ugly sphere which is why we need to concentrate on only using the best available sources. SmartSE (talk) 12:52, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
  • I just want to say here that I strongly support SS's creation of the new article, and I thank you for having created it. I do not want to see it made back into a redirect. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:41, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm giving you a heads-up that you just barely violated 1RR on the new page. Please be careful, because it's easy to get caught. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:24, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm going to piggyback here, but that actually is a violation of 1RR as having a revert that is easily considered gaming. Seraphim, it would be a different story if that was part of constructive edits rather than a blanket revert by trying to edit war content back in (e.g. even though I did the former and replaced your content with roughly agreed upon content to copy from glyphosate, I'm still careful of following the spirit of 1RR). You're quickly getting yourself in hot water, especially since you've been blocked for 1RR/edit warring violations in the past, so please pay attention to what people are saying at the talk pages. At this point, you at least need to undo the reverting back in of your own content and gain consensus as would be expected of my own new edits after you undid them. Kingofaces43 (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
This is the second time you've accused me of violating 1RR when I haven't. I don't think your massive removals of content are constructive.If massive removal of sourced content continues like this as well as the addition of massive amounts of specialized technical content then I'm not sure what to do - maybe it will have to go to AE, especially the removals. Usually specialized technical articles are disambiguated as such - that usually isn't needed for Chemistry the way it is in Law where everything is Mistake (law) but in this case there is room for an article that is non-technical and I think the goal of not being too technical is fundamental. Seraphim System (talk) 16:50, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I apparently worded my previous note too vaguely, so I'll say now that you did violate 1RR in that it was slightly less than 24 hours. If I had thought it was blatant I would have gone to AE myself, but I want to cut you some slack because it was so borderline. But it was 2 reverts within 24 hours, and you really need to be careful. KoA, please let me suggest that you not reply further in this thread. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:55, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Which two reverts? If I did violate 1RR I'll self-revert but it's generally good practice to post diffs of the reverts also. This was a self-revert [8] Seraphim System (talk) 17:21, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I want to apologize to you. I was wrong. I can't figure out now what I thought I saw, but I must have gotten something confused. I'm sorry, and I've struck some of what I said earlier. Anyway, I see that you self-reverted anyway, and that was a very helpful move to make. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:44, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I think it was this: [9], followed by the revert today of KofA's 16 edits (that you now self-reverted). They were slightly more than 24 hours apart, and I somehow got the timestamps switched in my mind. My bad. Anyway, it's best not to even have reverts separated by only that much. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:50, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
That's a relief, it just scared me a bit. Yes, it is easy to get confused, better safe than sorry.Seraphim System (talk) 23:07, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Pesticide DS

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

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Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:52, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Your closure

Hey, I just reverted your closure and I said that "Sorry for the revert, we don't vote in Wiki and we don't count votes when assessing consensus. I suggest you close it as 'no consensus' or leave to a more experienced user." I hope the revert did not annoy you. Regards. --Mhhossein talk 13:36, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

User:Mhhossein Its not proper way to do it.As you have voted in RFC.If thought SS closure was improper you have should raised the issue at WP:AN/I-- Shrike (talk) 13:59, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Definitely shouldn't be no-consensus - the outcome there is rather clear, even if SS's rationale may need improving they assessed the discussion properly. A no consensus close is usually in WP:BADNAC - non-admins usually shouldn't close discussions that are too close to call (and no consensus is by definition usually such).Icewhiz (talk) 15:13, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I don't think it's no consensus, the close is supposed to assess the consensus not to offer my own opinion. As I said in the close several editors raised objections about NPOV and I thought I had mentioned it but I thought Pincrete, Calthinus and K.e.coffman made particularly strong arguments that this content was not appropriate/detrimental for the See Also section. If the explanation wasn't satisfactory, it should have been discussed and then I would have either modified the closing rationale or it could have gone to AN/I. Under no circumstances should any editor involved in an RfC revert a close unilaterally, and I've restored the close with the modification. Seraphim System (talk) 16:07, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I don't insist on 'no consensus'. We don't have vote counting in Wikipedia. In fact, it's wrong to say "I count 4 votes either solely for neither or expressing a preference for neither as a first choice, 2 for both...", rather you'd better rely on the guideline based arguments. The closure is better now, although those vote countings are still seen. --Mhhossein talk 17:56, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
"I count" is just a figure of speech and I'm pretty sure I've seen admins use it in RfC closings, so I assumed it was ok. Closers definitely are supposed to count votes, but it is not the only factor. Those votes should be explained based on policy or sourcing, not just statements of opinion. If I had thought this was a difficult close, I would have left it for an admin. I noted here that editor's were concerned about NPOV and also that inclusion in the See Also section was not appropriate. Strength of the argument is not the same as agreeing wit the argument. Most of the editors seem to support neither - some for NPOV reasons and some because the content should be worked into the article. I think that is still a consensus for neither. This isn't capital punishment law, we don't need unanimous agreement for each justification given by editors.Seraphim System (talk) 18:07, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
SS did nothing wrong here. I'm pretty sure any admin would have made the same decision looking at the !votes. But if you want to raise issues about it this isn't the place anyways. --Calthinus (talk) 23:28, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm not objecting the decision, rather the VOTE argument is certainly faulty. I'm enough by this. --Mhhossein talk 13:14, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

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Important Notice

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

TonyBallioni (talk) 03:39, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

FYI Corbyn is under 1RR. The other editor just reverted you, so no need to self-revert since you weren't formally aware of the BLP sanctions. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:42, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the warning. I was about to self-revert, but he had already restored the content. Seraphim System (talk) 03:48, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

3RR Warning on Brett Kavanaugh

I consider this edit extremely close to violating 3RR even though you invoke 3RRNO. In the future, please follow what 3RRNO says and consider the BLP Noticeboard or request page protection instead of continuing to revert. I have fully protected the page. KnightLago (talk) 21:08, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

@KnightLago: Will do, I hadn't thought of requesting page protection. I don't work BLPs very often, it's too stressful, and there have been other issues with this editor on the article. Thanks for the advice. Seraphim System (talk) 21:13, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Sources

I wanted to take this off-line just to prevent another wall-of-text and extended conversation, but you are brief and succinct, so I thought we might have a side-conversation and I'll bring it back to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Iran#Sources.

I would change my position back to something close to my original position if it was clear that there was a way to identify sources that could be candidates for MEK news stories from Iranian sources.

In the states, for instance, if there is a controversial topic, we generally start with The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and for a conservative, but generally good source, The Washington Post. If we need to ensure that we're getting a conservative voice, we add Fox News for balance. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a place to start... or, a method for evaluating sources as Eperoton described... with a "reputation for fact-checking and accuracy".

How can we get there?–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:49, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

This is one Routledge source that might be on topic [10] - especially the list of newspapers seems fairly detailed in the ideological orientation of different papers and even notes some of the changes that Tehran Times has gone through over the years. I don't have access to the full list but it's a good reference for anyone who wants to know more about different Iranian newspapers. Seraphim System (talk) 16:28, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, thanks, this is helpful. I have been looking at it and may update List of newspapers in Iran with what pages I can see. Sometimes people located in different countries see different pages, so I'm not sure if we're seeing the same pages. I am guessing that "pro-reform" would be most likely to veer away from the government stances on topics.–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:01, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Elon Musk

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Request for comment of Israeli neighborhoods

I have opened an RFC for several of the Israeli cities that I think are un-encyclopedic. I appreciate input from you as you were involved in discussion on Israel related topics. Thank you. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 14:08, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Sierra Hull

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3RR Warning on Brett Kavanaugh

I consider this edit extremely close to violating 3RR even though you invoke 3RRNO. In the future, please follow what 3RRNO says and consider the BLP Noticeboard or request page protection instead of continuing to revert. I have fully protected the page. KnightLago (talk) 21:08, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

@KnightLago: The editor Seraphim appears to have previously made a pledge to you to refrain from further editing of the Brett Kavanaugh article in order to gain some form of leniency during the review of his previous inclination to make multiple reverts in this article. Now, after you have responsibly closed the RFC, he appears to be taking the first opportunity he has to start reverts on the page of material which has been in the article for several weeks. I request that Seraphim restore the material he has deleted today with no consensus on the Talk page, and that he stop from further edit reverts without Talk page. His reverts of the main article page without Talk has been disruptive to the other editors of the page who have used the Talk page usefully without forcing their own edits into the article as Seraphim appears to wish to start repeating again. Please restore your two deletions today and return to the Talk page for discussion. How many times are you planning to keep forcing your own edits into the article without Talk discussion. JohnWickTwo (talk) 16:16, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
I haven't made any such pledge in exchange for any type of leniency. All I said was I was done with the content dispute. Please don't post on my talk page again, I am archiving this. So far my edits to the article have removed 1 Wordpress blog non-RS, 1 source that was agreed to be non-RS on the talk page and reverted a BLP violation from an IP who was a block-evading sock puppet. That said I have wasted all three of my reverts on routine cleanup and maintenance and sadly have none left to "force my own edits into the article". Seraphim System (talk) 16:26, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
@Redrose64: User Seraphim is being notified that he is continuing a process of sequential reverts to force his edits into this article which he started on August 4. Previously, when he was reported and warned by admin, he then pledged that he was "done" with editing the page in order to obtain leniency for his sequential reverts here [15]. Now that the page protection has been lifted, Seraphim has returned to reverting sequentially again and is now refusing to undo his edits and begin Talk page. He has no consensus and is again not responding to requests to stop sequential reverts on the page. I am requesting that Seraphim undo his edits made today and return to Talk page for discussion since he has no consensus for either of his deletions today. He is refusing to start Talk on this. KnightLago has not signed on since yesterday evening when he removed the page protection. Please restore the page to when KnightLago removed page protection. JohnWickTwo (talk) 22:19, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
Please stop posting on my talk page. Seraphim System (talk) 22:27, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

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135 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: Start Tarator (talk) Merge
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6 Quality: Low, Assessed class: NA, Predicted class: Start Kosovo Intelligence Service (talk) Orphan
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64 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Start Şiş köfte (talk) Stub

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August 2018 at Women in Red

An exciting new month for Women in Red!


August 2018 worldwide online editathons:
New: Indigenous women Women of marginalized populations Women writers Geofocus: Bottom 10
Continuing: #1day1woman Global Initiative
Notable women, broadly-construed!



For the first time, this month we are trying out our Monthly achievement initiative

  • All creators of new biographies can keep track of their progress and earn virtual awards.
  • It can be used in conjunction with the above editathons or for any women's biography created in August.
  • Try it out when you create your first biography of the month.

Latest headlines, news, and views on the Women in Red talkpage (Join the conversation!):

(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language mailing list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Rosiestep (talk) 11:22, 23 July 2018 (UTC) via MassMessaging

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The Signpost: 31 July 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CXLVIII, August 2018

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:35, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

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August GOCE newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors August 2018 Newsletter

Hello and welcome to the August 2018 GOCE newsletter. Thanks to everyone who participated in the Guild's June election; your new and returning coordinators are listed below. The next election will occur in December 2018; all Wikipedia editors in good standing may take part.

Our June blitz focused on Requests and articles tagged for copy edit in October 2017. Of the eleven people who signed up, eight editors recorded a total of 28 copy edits, including 3 articles of more than 10,000 words. Complete results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Thanks to everyone who participated in the July drive. Of the seventeen people who signed up, thirteen editors completed 194 copy edits, successfully removing all articles tagged in the last three months of 2017. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are here.

The August blitz will run for one week, from 19 to 25 August. Sign up now!

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators, Reidgreg, Baffle gab1978, Jonesey95, Miniapolis and Tdslk.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

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Brett Kavanaugh Notification

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This week's article for improvement (week 34, 2018)

Guacamole is an avocado-based dip, spread, or salad first developed by the Aztecs in what is now Mexico.
Hello, Seraphim System.

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Guacamole

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