User:Merbabu/Archive17

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Thanks for the notice re: image removal

It's funny how some editors are so keen on removing stuff like images thumbs, while an article lacks important information. I think it is far more important that an article be complete, than be overly decorated with images. - Shiftchange (talk) 05:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I made a mistake. I meant to post that comment on another editors page. I hope you consider my recent contributions to the Port Jackson page favourably. - Shiftchange (talk) 10:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Right to do

I have a right to take the related article for FAR in case good reason is provided. And surely reason is good! Coloane (talk) 03:07, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

U2 Peer Review

Hi Merbabu, just wanted to let you know that I nominated U2 for a Peer Review. I will keep an eye on comments and respond accordingly but any help in drumming up reviewers is much appreciated! Wikipedia brown (talk) 02:00, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi again Merbabu. Wanted to give you a heads up that I nominated U2 for featured article status. I know how you feel about jumping into a FA candidacy, but we weren't getting back anything on the peer review, and I think the FA nomination process is the only way to get reviewers these days. Plus the article doesn't look too shabby as it is, and this time around I think it will be successful. I'll be playing close attention to the article and nomination page over the next week or so to address any concerns. I would humbly ask if you could do the same, or if you're busy right now, at least if you could provide your support, it would go a long way. Thanks. Wikipedia brown (talk) 05:46, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice Merbabu. This is indeed my first FAC, and I see your point about "general" articles like this one and how potentially difficult they can be to get to FA status. One of the reasons for the FAC, other than the fact that it's a damn good article, is that it had been almost a week on the Peer Review and I hadn't gotten anything at all to go off of (peer review is seemingly dead). In any case, it's really good to have your help with this FAC, although I feel like you're doing most of the work as you've responded to most of the criticism already (you're way faster than me -- I just woke up!). I guess no matter how it gets done, hopefully this will be the FAC that is successful (I'll keep my fingers crossed). If not, maybe we'll have some new directions to take the article in. Looking forward to working with you again. (p.s. looks like you've answered most of Jayron32's criticisms except for the awards one, which I took care of, and the campaigning one which I'll review next. This is a fantastic example of Wiki-teamwork, though it's spooky that it worked out just so without prior coordination) Wikipedia brown (talk) 15:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Merbabu. I saw your request on my talk page for email conversation. Please email me when you get a chance, I want to discuss the U2 FAC. Wikipedia brown (talk) 00:24, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

If either of you need help/an extra set of eyes, I'm always willing. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 00:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd be happy to look at some of the suggestions if you'd like, it's really your project; you've put so much work into it. Yes, you can challenge opposes, you may want to discuss it on the person's talk page though so they know what's going on. Best, Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 00:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Merbabu, I noticed that the lead still has "mega-stardom" which one reviewer found inappropriate. You had said you were going to change it in your comment ... did you change your mind??? Thanks. Wikipedia brown (talk) 23:51, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

That is weird that the "mega-stardom" change disappeared. I looked in your edit history and it looks like it disappeared when you added Steve Averill back in! Must be a balance of the universe issue or something ... anyway, it's fine to leave Steve Averill in -- I originally removed it because I had a hard time linking it to the The Radiators From Space article (he goes by Steve Rapid there). As long as it doesn't draw attention away from our subject, I think it's fine. Leave it.

By the way, don't know if you saw the comments from Mangojuice about reducing the lead to one para. Jayron32 brought up a good point that we should have a 3-4 paragraph lead. I'll try to think of ways to spice it up a bit more to satisfy him and indopug (and btw sorry for removing the mid-1980s thing, I was trying to make it more concise, but I see your point that it distinguishes them from their peers for having a very long history of success). Wikipedia brown (talk) 02:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Cool, just looked at your email, looks like we had similar thoughts. Let's just cross our fingers and hope we can make everyone happy (usually an impossibility!). By the way, can you review some changes I made to the lead section at my sandbox, User:Wikipedia_brown/Sandbox2? I took into account some suggestions made at the FAC and basically re-ordered the information as recommended, but it still requires cleaning up. Not sure if it's any better. Also, I'm going to bed soon, so I'll talk to you tomorrow. Good luck holding the fort. Wikipedia brown (talk) 03:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Good show on the lead! Looks like MangoJuice is satisfied and that makes me happy. The support we are seeing gives me a nice feeling and makes this all worthwhile (hope you feel the same)! I'm busy at work today, but I'll look at the article more at home tonight. By the way, the criticism from Coloane seems misplaced to me, I will need to review more and, as the "nominator", I intend to provide a response tonight as he requested. Wikipedia brown (talk) 17:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

By the way, one other thing: I adjusted the sentence in the lead with the RS quote from:

Their success as a live act was greater than their success at selling records, until their 1987 album, The Joshua Tree, brought them success that Rolling Stone described as "the leap from heroes to superstars".

to

Their success as a live act was greater than their success at selling records, until their 1987 album, The Joshua Tree, increased the band's stature "from heroes to superstars" according to Rolling Stone.

I felt that the first version had too many instances of the word "success" (3). If you can think of a better phrasing to remove the word success (perhaps an appropriate synonym?), feel free to change it. Also, I noticed that there is no page number in the reference for that quote (still says xx -- I'm hoping you have one but your forgot to include it??) And one more thing: I saw your email, thanks for the heads up, I'll be careful about inserting myself into places where I don't belong :) Wikipedia brown (talk) 00:56, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey

Good to see you back up and running Satu Suro 00:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

BTW have tried nutting out the table error in Demographics of Indonesia at the top but not 100 percent sure - reckon you could fix it? Satu Suro 10:18, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Request for Mediation

Hi Merbabu. The John Howard family copra interests has been listed for the Mediation Committee again. Please click on Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/John_Howard to indicate whether or not you would like to participate. Thanks, Lester 06:06, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Merbabu, I'm not sure if you missed this message previously. Can you go to Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/John_Howard to indicate "agree" or "disagree" for Mediation. It would be good to get an answer from everyone as to whether they will join the Mediation discussion. Thank you, Lester 19:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Simple English Wikipedia

An account in your name and linking to your page was recently created on the Simple English Wikipedia. During a checkuser check of a vandal, this account was identified as very likely belonging to that vandal. The account has been indefinitely blocked at this time to prevent any damage. If this account was not created by the vandal and you do claim it, please let me know (from this account so I know it is not the vandal playing around again) and I will unblock it. Creol (talk) 09:22, 15 January 2008 (UTC) (my talk page on Simple)

Your copyedit request

On July 5, 2007, you made a request to the League of Copyeditors for a copyedit on Indonesian National Revolution. Due to a heavy backlog and a shortage of copyeditors, we have been unable to act on your request in a timely manner, for which we aplogize. Since your request, this article has been subject to significant editing, and may no longer be a good candidate for copyediting by the League. If you still wish the League to copyedit this article, please review this article against our new criteria and follow the instructions on the Requests page. This will include your request in our new system, where it should receive more prompt attention. SlackerMom (talk) 17:40, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Jakarta

The edits you commented on were lifted directly from http://sgpropertypress.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/gems-in-a-booming-indonesian-market/ and http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761572146/Jakarta.html Regards Davidelit (talk) 13:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm an English teacher here in Indonesia, so I get lots of practice spotting plagiarism - often from Wikipedia :-) I'm still waiting for the day one of my students lifts text from an article I wrote... Regards Davidelit (talk) 14:07, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

About the page

Sorry, I was just trying to figure out the wikipedia program. Maybe you can insert some better pictures in the page. It looks kinda boring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hendrahendra (talk • contribs) 14:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Orangutan Video

I spent a long time re-editing my orangutan video for a wikipedia audience. Wiki commons does not allow high quality, or any kind of length, so I had to reduce both, and remove audio. I linked back (directly) to the 'real' version of the video for this reason on my website that yes, has been up for longer than wikipedia itself, so is not going away.

Seeing a video of orangutan behavior in the 'wild', I believe, is an important addition to the article.

If you still disagree, then let's get a greater number of opinions on the article's discussion page, but I really don't want my work just deleted because of A) A crappy wikipedia template for videos (IF you don't like how I presented it, go ahead and change it, but it's beyond my technical abilities ) 2) a revert just because it contains a relevent EL. I'd prefer to present it without an EL, but the technical limitations on wiki commons and wikipedia don't allow for any form of justice to be done to videos, especially considering broadband penetration worldwide. So, I present both, as a compromise.

Isewell (talk) 17:35, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

This would fall under the external link policy. To wit: don't post links to your own website. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I would be less pissed off if all Merbabu had done was to remove the EL (though I still disagree, because of wikipedia's technical limitations concerning videos, and the importance of rich multimedia content for an encylcopedia - this is where Encarta still wins hands down). But instead, he just reverted the whole effort without even a second thought. I'm one of I think two contributors in all of wikipeida that actually takes the time to create videos, converting videos to OGG/Theora format, editing down so they meet the size requirements, uploading them to commons, and linking to them. To run into unjustified reverts like this makes me feel like giving up. Maybe the wiki community just isn't ready for this newfangled "internet video" thing.

Would it be better if I included a thumbnail from the video, with no embedded player in the article, and link to the commons page with the video of it? That would certainly look nicer instead of the huge ugly video template, but IMO a lot less convenient for viewers of the article. Isewell (talk) 18:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Save your time

I suggest that you had better save your time and keep from writing me. Just to remind you it is simply a beginning. We will surely have more chances to meet each other on the page of FAC!! Good Luck! Coloane (talk) 06:40, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your warning and coaching, very nice. I think that you should take particular care that you are begging me now for changing my vote. So please make sure your speech and attitude are in a modest way. I made my comment in a fair way. At most this article is just a B class standard although you tried your best to make sure this article is fully referenced in order to make an illusion for voters, however, I even don't think it should be on the GA list. Coloane (talk) 09:01, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

jack p!!??

who is jack p and how do i have anything to do with him? major confusion here.Disco dog23 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 12:26, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Concern

Merbabu, I am concerned that there appears to be tension between yourself and User:Coloane, this has started to fringe on incivility. While I see you are assuming good faith with the comments, I suggest that you avoid further discussions with Coloane as a means of stopping any further escalation. Gnan garra 16:04, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I would second the above; avoid direct contact with that user. Also, please note that an WP:ANI discussion has been started regarding this. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:54, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Reply to your request

G'day, and thanks for your kind words. To be honest I stumbled onto the pages in question (as you do on this website). I was checking to make sure that wikilinks I had put into an article I am working on (about an aircraft that was used by the NEI armed forces before the Japanese invaded) worked correctly. I saw that there were some things that could be fixed up and decided to do the fixes instead of leaving them. I am actually editing the article right now, so I am a bit tied up at the moment. However, if I get the chance later on I will certainly have a look. See ya YSSYguy (talk) 23:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I have just had a look at the Indonesian National Revolution article and made some changes, mostly with the intention of improving clarity (there was the odd word missing, or incorrect words used, and IMO commas where none were needed). However there is a significant issue that I do not have time to resolve at the moment. You will see in the references that there is a Cite error. I had a brief look at the edit history and it seems that the error was introduced sometime in July last year. Perhaps you could chase it down and fix it up? YSSYguy (talk) 23:36, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

U2 FAC Success!!!!

Hey Merbabu! U2 is now an FA! This is the happiest day of my life (sadly, that may be true). A congratulations are in order to you -- great work on the article, and I don't think there's any way it would've gotten there without all your contributions and help during the nomination. Now it's time to celebrate (how does one celebrate on wikipedia??). And of course we still have the day that the article gets shown on the front page of en.wikipedia.org to look forward to! Also can't wait for the U2 3D movie which is coming out tomorrow here in New York -- this is shaping up to be an exciting U2-themed week !!! Wikipedia brown (talk) 03:11, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Well done! All your responsive and hard work has paid off! Alice^✉ 07:54, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Congrats, but yeah, its surprising to say the least; I thought there was a long way to go especially due to the prose concerns. Anyway, here are my remaining concerns (Yes, I know I'm a downer):

The lead: Could you split the middle para into two? (I'm kinda in love with the Radiohead lead) The second para until Rattle and the third Achtung onwards. Also, "U2 formed in 1976 when the members were teenagers with limited musical proficiency. By the mid-1980s, however, the band had become a top international act" seems inappropriate and abrupt, jumping from their youth to stardom. Also "limited profiency" seems POVish. (I say remove it). For the last para, include a sweeping quote about their career and influence (remove the Joshua quote? seems unnecessary: just say greatest success, considered best-ever...). Also I'd recommend removing that list of social organisations from the lead. Whats with that IPA thing; is it difficult to pronounce U2?!
Include a detailed caption for Sunday Bloody Sunday sample
Most of the prose can actually be improved greatly by changing from passive voice to active voice. "Friendships with Bob..." is an example.
"showing a television audience of millions the personal connection that Bono could make with audiences." is awfully melodramatic POV. "the band rallied around a chord progression The Edge had written, creating the song "One"." The para ends there, leaving the reader dangling as to what ever resulted from "One".
I guess you'll disagree, but those quoteboxes really add nothing but POV; they also make the article sound a lot like a magazine.
The influences section is the one i have the biggest problem with and i really urge you to rewrite it. Right now its just a random list of bands. Include direct quotations ffrom bands that have really been influenced by u2; base it on the R.E.M. article. That cover versions artists list isn't really notable, remove it.

I'm really sorry for being such a party pooper (I am a born slave-driver :D) but the FAC had some way to go. I say take your time, there's obviously no hurry now.

In a slightly unrelated note, why was Coloane's opposition/argument removed and moved to Dispute resolution? indopug (talk) 16:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

My hats off to you. Congrats, Merbabu! A long journey of work has created the most beautiful article in Wikipedia. I wish Bono will give you a free tickets to his concerts a full year around. ;-) Now, I've to run again. — Indon (reply) — 15:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Aust Barnstar

		The Australian Barnstar of National Merit
		for your efforts with Australian articles Gnan garra 00:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Freeport McMoran

You're welcome. And welcome to take a crack at the fixup... {GG}

Another Indo fan, I see. My Dad taught at Universitas Gadjah Mada years ago... Wore out my UGM sweatshirt, darn it.

Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 02:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Gotta go

talk to you later! Satu Suro 09:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

(New section)

Fact tags were removed and replaced with references. for Tutut. Furthermore- much moral masturbation and unprofessional kudos to students needs to be removed from ridiculously titled 1998 revolution. One major point is that it was hardly a revolution by any definition of the term, and more likely a series of power plays. One very important reference has been removed- alluding to the issue of Anton Medan and his known involvement in the Karawaci lootings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Starstylers (talk • contribs) 12:21, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

No problemo- meant no insult. I didn't realise the issue regarding fugly- will change immediately. Cheers!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Starsylers (talk • contribs)

Possible dodgy airports

Hi Merbabu.

I'll take a look in a minute. I'm just tidying up the pig's breakfast I have made by creating Commons:Category:Indonesia Maps when there was already Commons:Category:Maps of Indonesia! Davidelit (talk) 12:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey there is one we need to keep very close eyes on - dodgy airports - good stuff! Satu Suro 13:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

actually, I wonder whether it is yet another sock of our favourite banned troll. Probably not, but not impossible - i have a hunch. --Merbabu (talk) 13:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

http://www.world-airport-codes.com/indonesia/trunojoyo-7193.html is worth a look Satu Suro 13:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

My Buku Pintar: Seri Senior (Ed: Iwan Gayo, 26th reprint, June 1998) lists a Trunojo Airport at Sumenep. There is an airport marker at precisely the coordinates given on Google Earth, but no sign of an airport, and anyway I wonder if anybody at all can place these markers. Likewise, the site Satusuro mentioned can be edited by anybody. In any case the claim of hundreds of flights to Surabaya is clearly silly. Davidelit (talk) 13:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I have suggested to merbabu that we basically embargo all the suspected sock edits as assumed to be hoax Satu Suro 13:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Based upon checkuser ([1]) and other evidence, the dodgy airport and stadium articles are almost certainly coming from a bored teenager in Indonesia, not the sock master you are probably thinking of. (Caniago (talk) 14:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC))

1988 etc

I've never liked this title either. It's all a bit Marxist-history-sounding. However, if we want to go too far down that road, was the Russian Revolution really one? I'd vote for Downfall of Suharto. Davidelit (talk) 13:27, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I would saupport david's downfall of suharto - good one Satu Suro 13:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Can't take the credit for that one - Merbabu said it first! Davidelit (talk) 13:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes to your message - and think well about the suggestions offline! Satu Suro 13:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

using signatures?

got a message from satusuro about signatures. I'n not quite clear on whre exactly to place them within the context of editing or within an articleStarstylers (talk) 17:21, 29 January 2008 (UTC)?

signing

aha- think I've got the hang of things now. Cheers Pak Gunung! Starstylers (talk) 10:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

crappy editing of Karanganyar fixed

sorry- I fecked up- must be getting tired. reintroduced your edit and merged with my bit that has references. sorry again- don't mean to trad on shoes. Starstylers (talk) 12:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

issues

the more i look, the more i despair - every turn another potential issue - the armenian brothers look fascinating - pity about the article Satu Suro 12:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)12:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

pak h

history will not treat him well - I would bet - dont worry theres sure to be something that can go that road of fa etc Satu Suro 12:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

note

Yeah, that guy seems to have some form of dysfunction. Here's a new toy for you to play with: [2]. Interesting Indonesia is around or above U2 in traffic. Sumatra, Minangkabau and Rumah Gadang are the articles I have in mind for doing for some more work as time becomes available. (Caniago (talk) 14:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC))

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.