Talk:Ladakh/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Halliburton

Anyone familiar with Richard Halliburton's writing on his visit to Ladakh as he was trekking around the world when he was straight out of college? I don't currently have a copy, but I seem to remember it had some pretty decent material, if anyone has one. -- Jmabel 08:10, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

Did he ever visit Ladakh ?? Where did you read it —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ladakh (talk • contribs) 19 March 2006

Yes, he describes the visit in The Royal Road to Romance (1925). I used to own a copy, but passed it on. - Jmabel | Talk 19:44, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Ferdinand Stoliczka

Wonder if the contributions of Ferdinand Stoliczka to the study of the region could be added by someone knowledgeable. Shyamal 04:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I added a line in the beginning of the Wildlife section. deeptrivia (talk) 04:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Wildlife

Needs to include information on the Wild Ass and Dromedary populations. The birds section currently lists a rather stray bunch of birds. There is so much more available in references such as Otto Pfisters book on the fauna of the region. Will try to add on more later. Shyamal 05:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Considering that there is vast amount of information available on this subject, I created a separate article Flora and fauna of Ladakh, which can be expanded further (of course, the section on this page also needs to be improved.) deeptrivia (talk) 05:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Pending tasks

{{todo}}

I have removed the aryan references from the article Bharatveer 07:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Why? All books on Ladakh history talk about this. I have restored it. deeptrivia (talk) 12:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Pls see this AIT-BBCBharatveer

What does this have to do with this article? Do you know why Aryan was there in this article at the first place? deeptrivia (talk) 14:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

A majority of current inhabitants of Ladakh are of Tibetan origin, which are of Mongoloid descent. However, the first inhabitants of the region, the Dardi people were of Indo-Aryan descent and spoke Indo-Aryan languages. Therefore, it is important to clarify that the early inhabitants were Indo-Aryan, to emphasize that there has been a major change of demographics (see Tibetanization in the history section), sometime in the 8th century. deeptrivia (talk) 16:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Census data

I tried looking for latest data for birth rate/ death rate/ infant mortality rate, but could not come up with much. Did however get data for these: population ratio/ literacy ratio/ sex ratio/ worker to non worker etc. Should we take off the birth/ death rate etc and put this info instead, or is it mandatory for featured article aspirants to mention these? -- Lost 13:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The data you have found out are vital. Place those in "Demographics". It is not necessary to include thosa data in the infobox. Infobox may or may not have all demographics data. Worker data may find place in economy as well. These data would help the article a more encyclopedia look. --Dwaipayan (talk) 09:48, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The population density number doesn't match the area and population numbers. 200 000 / 45 000 ~= 4.4, not 3 as is stated in the article.

It is very difficult to state the population density for Ladakh, as the area is calculated by India as including vast areas of Pakistan-occupied and Chinese-occupied land, while the population figures reflect only the people under Indian administration.

Map

This map with 2 colors looks fine. But, where do you plan to describe the color coding?--Dwaipayan (talk) 12:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Missionary activities

deeptrivia,

Surely, this is not the place where you can list the achievements of missionaries.Maybe you can create a new article for that.Bharatveer 04:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The activities and contributions of the Moravian missionaries are an important part of the history of Ladakh in the late 19th century. They did open the first modern school in Ladakh, and there's no reason why this shouldn't be mentioned in the article. To what extent was this a positive or a negative development is a subjective issue which this article doesn't go into. What exactly are your concerns? deeptrivia (talk) 05:02, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
1.Your earlier edits in the demography section like omission of 5% population of ladakh; mention of some 30 families of chrisitians (which i deleted)while all other religious communities are expressed in % ; statement regarding "nestorian" crosses; your similar pov pushing in the Leh article (which i modified).

These are some of the examples that shows you POV pushing. Maybe that explains why you feel the moravian missionaries activities are relevant. What i am saying is if you feel that it is relevant , you can create another article like "Missionary activites in Ladakh".Bharatveer 05:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not about what I feel or you feel. Most books on Ladakh history have whole chapters devoted to this. We do not have information about the remaining 5% of the population, so despite the fact that your claim that those 5% are Hindus and Sikhs is not verifiable, I didn't object as strongly as I should have because 5% is a small number, and I have better ways of using my wikipedia time than fighting about it. These 5% might all be atheists for all we know. Nestorian crosses is cited as an evidence of the fact that in ancient times there was contact between central asia and Ladakh. Christian community finds a mention only because we have reliable information about their numbers. If you have reliable information about number of Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Zoroastrians, Jews, Rastafarians, Bahais, etc. in Ladakh, you are highly encouraged to add that in the article. deeptrivia (talk) 05:44, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

PS: By the way, all I ever did on the Leh article was add a picture of the town. Photos are bound to be taken from a Point of View, and nobody has ever succeeded in helping it. Take it easy :)) deeptrivia (talk) 05:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Your opinion that"These 5% might all be atheists for all we know." is not correct since we have the 1981 census data of Leh which states that 2.99% are hindus . So taking the whole population of ladakh, the percentage of hindus would surely be more than say 1%.But since there are no religious census data for Ladakh, it is ok not to mention it.

"so despite the fact that your claim that those 5% are Hindus and Sikhs is not verifiable, I didn't object as strongly as I should have because 5% is a small number," Now where did I claim that those 5 % were Hindus and sikhs and when i never made any claim ; how can you claim you made a concession for me regarding that? .Bharatveer 06:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

All your edits here are for everyone to see, so I'm not pursuing this any further. Extrapolation of Hindu population of Leh in 1981 to Hindu population of whole of Ladakh in 2001 is regrettably, not a reliable source. I highly encourage you to find another because it will be useful to the article to have data about Hindus and Sikhs. Also, I am reinserting the portions in the education section for the sake of continuity. We cannot jump straight from ancient times to the 2001 census without discussing the factors in the 19th century that led to a change in the education situation. deeptrivia (talk) 13:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I dont understand what you are trying to say. I never added anything abt hindu popu in ladakh.About the education section, your arguments are not convincing; i will remove them .Bharatveer 14:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong or POV with the current draft. [1] =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Politics and

Some observations:

  1. What's the political condition? Lok Sabha ? Who won last time? I mean the political parties...
  2. "The NDA government at Delhi introduced an annual Sindhu Darshan festival (held from June 12 to 14), which was renamed as the Ladakh Singhey-Khabab Spring Festival by the Ladakh Autonomous Hill Development Council at the behest of the Union tourism ministry of the UPA government, "to give the festival a local identity and delink it from Hindutva." The name change was opposed by the Ladakh Union Territory Front, which said that change of name, will affect its relevance" — is that really necessary? I mean three lines dedicated to this thing? The the festival can be described in "culture".
  3. Have you considered more trimming? I have not the new avatar, but just on a glance, seems "Economy", "Flora and fauna" can be trimmed. In fact, I am afraid an average reader gets bored with so many kings' names in the History. Can it be made more "de-personalised"? The daughter article will give the interested reader an opportunity to to delve into the matter, but here IMO History needs serious trimming. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I fully agree and thought the same after adding it. Let me try to find more information about the current MPs, etc, and replace the festival controversy with that. I'm working on trimming too .. the article is far to lengthy right now.deeptrivia (talk) 12:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

If you're trimming something here, please make sure the info is retained in the daughter article. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 12:35, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Sure, Sundar, i'm too lazy to change stuff at both places anyway. deeptrivia (talk) 13:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Sister projects

Is it necessary to have {{sisterlinks}} in the "Further reading" section, since only commons has any true reference to Ladakh ? Wikiquote has a passing reference to it, and so does Wikisource.--May the Force be with you! Shreshth91(review me!) 11:23, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

You Have the Tibetan Peoples Support

I must say, this is a wonderful article. I wish you all the best and watch out for the politically motivated "editors"! Me 06:13, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

You may want to add somewhere something about the constant crossing of the border by the Tibetan refugees from Tibet into Ladakh to escape the Chinese regime. Me 17:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The demographics section mentions that:
"Since the early 1960s their numbers have increased as Chang Tang nomads from across the border flee the Chinese-ruled Tibet. There are about 3,500 refugees in Leh alone."

If you have some more specific information, please share. I've recently obtained a few more books on Ladakh. One of them is "Beyond Lines of Control: Performance and Politics on the Disputed Borders of Ladakh, India", from Duke University Press. I'm sure it will have more information. We can probably have a whole new article on this situation. deeptrivia (talk) 20:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Tourism

Anybody who has more info about Tourism in the Region. Not just what to go and where to visit, but when it was allowed, permits, etc.. Not to make it sound like a tourist brochure, but to give it more general info.K ganju 11:29, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

There is a separate article Tourism in Ladakh and there's also an article on Wikitravel. Of course, these can be further improved. deeptrivia (talk) 15:48, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Central Asia

WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, please consider joining us. Aelfthrytha 21:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Changed link

Link change with no edit summary. I don't know whether this is link hijacking or a correction. I'm long since out of my depth on this article.

Similarly Gilgit Valley changed without explanation to Baltiyul in lead, an unusual change for a featured article. - Jmabel | Talk 00:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Magnetic Hill

Interestingly, India's only known Magnetic Hill, which defies the Gravity, is in Ladakh. There are some reported Magnetic anomalies in the region, but defying gravity sounded out of the way. Shyamal 15:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I have re added the line. This because I have visited the place and experienced the gravity defying magnetic effect. Since there may be other such places, I am removing the word 'Only'.

Gktambe 21.16 December 31st, 2006.

Magnetism and gravity are different. You may need to cite a suitable geological publication on the topic if this article should be accurate or treated as a featured article. Shyamal 07:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I have edited the line to say it's an optical illusion that appears to defy gravity. Next time you are at the “Magnetic Hill”, try this experiment we have done there several times.

At the place where you stop your car and it rolls in a direction that appears to be uphill, try the same thing with a glass or plastic bottle. It will roll the same direction although these objects contain no iron and cannot be affected by magnetism.

We have also taken a magnetic compass there more than once, and it always shows the same north as one would expect from the map. There is absolutely no magnetic disturbance in the area of the "Magnetic Hill."

In fact, the entire area of road visible at that point is a very steep hill that fools the eye by looking like a gentle hill. The small area of the "Magnetic Hill" appears to be sloping in the opposite direction but is actually just a decrease in the slope, a less-steep section of the slope. So your vehicle and bottle are indeed rolling downhill, although your eye is tricked into thinking it is uphill.

I've noticed that Ladakhis who farm are not tricked by the illusion, probably because their extensive irrigation experience makes them very perceptive of subtle slopes. They say, "Okay, the vehicle is rolling downhill. So what's the big deal?"

I’m sorry to puncture such a charming illusion, but it really is false! BeckyLadakh 11:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Temperatures in Leh?

The table with max and min temperatures for Leh looks a little unlikely, saying that the average max temp in Leh in July and August is about 17C. In my experience over many summers in and around Leh, sunny summer days reach over 25C. Rainy days are much cooler but are not the majority of days. Does anyone have a source for the data given in that chart, or else other data from a reliable source? BeckyLadakh 11:32, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Please settle

Hello. Sorry for bothering you but since this article is of FA status and featured on the main page, I would like to suggest to fix this one:

Rice was previously a luxury in the Ladakhi diet, but, subsidised by the government, has now become a cheap staple.[citation needed]

Thank you. --βritandβeyonce (talk•contribs) 05:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. Thanks, deeptrivia (talk) 06:31, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

no industries here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.134.201.40 (talk) 12:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

featured article? You have to be kidding!

This article is full of unexplained material, unwikilinked terms and strange English. For example, what is the meaning of:

"There is one airport in Leh, from which there are multiple daily flights to Delhi on Jet Airways, Air Deccan, and Indian, and weekly flights to Srinagar and Jammu."

--Filll (talk) 20:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Dude, to most Indians this makes sense. It means:
  • There is one airport in Leh.
  • From this airport three airlines, namely Jet Airways, Air Deccan and Indian, provide daily flights to Delhi.
  • There are also weekly flights to Srinagar and Jammu.
In case of language which you feel needs improving, be BOLD.
In case of unwikilinked terms either wikilink it yourself or provide a list of what you would like wikilinked.
If you feel it needs copy-editing or some other improvement add the relevant tag to the article. If you feel that it no longer deserves to be an FA as I do place it on WP:FAR.
AshLin (talk) 17:31, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Spoken version of this article

The script for this article is under preparation at User:AshLin/Spoken script Ladakh and is being prepared as per the guidelines of WP:SPOKEN. AshLin (talk) 11:45, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

The spoken version of this article is being recorded from this version(permalink 278150250). AshLin (talk) 17:59, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Area

Area of ladakh is 33,554 sq. mi (86,904 km²) and not 45,110 km². There was even an error on the Jammu page. This excludes Chinese-occupied Kashmir. My source: [2]. Please give it a check! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.49.35.196 (talk) 13:30, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The area of Ladakh is not possible to state in an objective way. Most of the borders are contested, and huge areas claimed by India are under the control of Pakistan or China, so there is no objective way to state the area or related facts such as population density. BeckyLadakh (talk) 06:34, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Featured Article Review

I have placed the article in WP:FAR for not meeting requirement 1 (b) of WP:WIAFA. Please see detailed comments at this page. Please help me make up this deficiency so that the article lives upto FA quality and I can go ahead with preparing a WP:SPOKEN version of this article. AshLin (talk) 03:11, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

This article has been delisted as a Featured Article by the review committee. See here AshLin (talk) 16:34, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

The War on Prose

The War on Prose continues: [3]. "Vegetation is rare in Ladakh, except for the few narrow valleys, where wild roses, willow groves and some herbs could be seen. However, above that, due to the rapid decrease in temperature, vegetation becomes stunted and sparse" replaced by "Vegetation is extremely sparse in Ladakh except along streambeds and wetlands, on high slopes which recieve [sic; I'll fix it]] more snow, and where irrigated." I'm not sure if there is supposed to be a factual correction here (I don't see much difference) but it is certainly less evocative. Do we really need to lose "the few narrow valleys, where wild roses, willow groves and some herbs could be seen"? Is there anything inaccurate about it? - Jmabel | Talk 04:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, people think in a variety of different ways about it. Some put a lot of weight on conciseness while others prefer more evocative prose. Matters of style apart, the replaced text does away with accurate information about willows and wild roses which indeed fill up the narrow river valleys, and clarifies the fact that irrigated areas (which themselves are indeed in the narrow valleys) are also green (because of crops.) I just uploaded a picture to illustrate what it means. This is the widest valley in Ladakh, and most of the green area visible is due to irrigation from the river. Beyond this strip, it's all barren, except some thorny herbs in some pockets, as can be seen on bottom left. By all means, combine the two versions if you think it helps. deeptrivia (talk) 05:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I'll do that; just trying to make sure first that the mention of specific plants was not misleading. - Jmabel | Talk 04:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, that was me. I'm very new to Wikipedia, and just wanted to make a factual correction. I agree the original prose was nicer, but the persistent myth that Ladakh's barrenness is due to its temperature irks me. The fact is, the sparse vegetation in Ladakh is entirely due to its aridity, and not at all due to the temperature. The inhabited parts of Ladakh and surrounding barren hillsides are in fact no colder, and often warmer, than well-forested parts of northern US and eastern Canada, most of Russia, etc. Also, the bit about "roses, willow groves and a few herbs" was not terribly accurate. The shrubs tamarisk and seabuckthorn are as common as roses, and quite a lot (dozens? hundreds?) of other shrubs and herbs grow wild in the valleys, while wild groves of willow are rare. Any visit to a pass will show you that foliage is much richer in high areas of Ladakh than in low areas (except where irrigated or along water). There are also natural wetlands in Ladakh with their own other varieties of flora. The recent NCERT class 7 Social Studies textbook even buys into it and says something like "Ladakh is a cold desert because the ground water is frozen all year round" (which would imply that Ladakhi farmers apply heat to grow their crops: remarkable!). I'm sorry I went and changed it myself instead of posting here. I'm a newbie. - BeckyLadakh

Please, feel very free to make it more accurate. Sounds like you know tremendously more on the topic than I. Specificity on plants is good, because it gives people something concrete, but feel infinitely free to change it to a more correct list. - Jmabel | Talk 00:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Ladakh can be very hot, when i was trekking in the Markha Valley in July it was upwards of 45 degrees celcius most days. But it is extremely cold in winter time.203.109.204.166 08:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)leeni247

Oops, looking at the Ladakh page on Wikipedia in Dec 2009, it seems that all mention of plants has disappeared! The only trace left is the title "flora and fauna," but both here and on the "Flora and Fauna of Ladakh" page, there is no flora left. -- BeckyLadakh 19:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Education: could someone mention the Lamdon school in leh. I'm unfamiliar with how to write an article and wouldnt want to drag down the quality of this one, but i have visited there and it was extremely well run203.109.204.166 08:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)leeni247

Assuming you have a citation on this, write you can write your material here and someone will get it into the article. - Jmabel | Talk 05:12, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Official languages

Someone has recently changed the "Official languages" line of the infobox to include Hindi. I'm not sure what makes a language official for an Indian district, or in this case two Indian districts, but I'm suspicious of Hindi being an official language (except of course at the national level, and of other states). Does anyone have a reference? --Keithonearth (talk) 05:50, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

hindi is not an official language of ladakh.india does not have a national language. its not even mentioned in the constitution of india. hindi though is the largest spoken language in india. now. since ladakh is in j&k ,urdu is the official state language........ and in ladakh ladakhi is spoken.even muslims speak ladakhi.. though people of the land understand hindi and even speak ladakhi the main language which for a non speaker might sound like a tibetan but its different . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.125.24.115 (talk) 20:16, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm just going to remove those languages because there is no official language in Ladakh. Most govt official written business is done in English; a few departments still use Urdu for written records; I've never seen Hindi used for any official purpose in Ladakh except school Hindi exams; and Ladakhi is used for all spoken purposes but written Ladakhi is used for no official purposes except the local govt newsletter. Only recently did govt department signboards even add Ladakhi to the other languages. I certainly wish written Ladakhi were used more, but sadly it is not. BeckyLadakh (talk) 01:35, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that BeckyLadakh, I'd totally forgotten about it. --Keithonearth (talk) 02:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Flag

What is the story with the "Flag of Ladakh"? I was not aware of it's existence, until seeing it on this page, and the of the Ladakh Nationalist Movement.svg description page of the file refers to it as the flag of the Ladakhi national movement, and not as Ladakh. (As does the file's source) and the book refered to in the source Nations Without States, also refers to it as the flag of the national movement. I'm worried that this may be the flag of the Ladakhi Buddist national movement, some of whom have ties to the nasty extreme far right Indian Hindu national movement groups like Shiv Sena and Vishva Hindu Parishad. The flag itself represents a Buddhist theme, and this also makes me think that the flag would not represent Ladakh as a whole, with it's large Muslim population. I hope that someone can clarify this for me, but if I am right I would like to take the flag down. --Keithonearth (talk) 06:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I share your concern. We need reliable sources that this truly is the flag of the region. Otherwise it should come down. --John (talk) 06:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
OK, I'm just going to take it down. I don't feel the need to wait, as we do have a number of sources stating that it is the flag of the national movement. If someone finds a solid ref for it being representative of Ladakh as a whole, and not just a sub-group of Ladakhis, we can put it back up. --Keithonearth (talk) 18:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
Modern ladakh district has muslim population which is made according to geography and military borders, if you see history of ladakh kingdom, it had a flag. Keithonearth, your unfounded statement of "ties" is extremely farly regretted. I add a ref [4] Doorvery far (talk) 09:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

So, the Ladakh Kingdom must have had a flag. Does anyone know what it looked like, and whether it looked like the flag that had been posted here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BeckyLadakh (talk • contribs) 06:45, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I caused offence Doorvery far, I don't mean that all Nationalistic Ladakhis are as far right and jingoistic as the above mentioned organisations, just that they are not representative of Ladakh as a whole. Nor is a flag of a nationalist movement the same as a flag of a region. I'm not sure what you mean regarding Ladakh district, and I did look at the ladakh kingdom article, and don't see anything about a flag. As for Becky's point about how the Kingdom of Ladakh must have had a flag, I'm not sure it did. The Flag of Tibet "was introduced by the 13th Dalai Lama" according to it's article, that was way after the Kashmiris gained control of Ladakh. They very well may not have had one.
I really don't mean to be a pain here, I just want to make sure our info is valid. --Keithonearth (talk) 07:35, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Doorvery, the ref you added was not valid. It was just somebody's photo website where a small flag-shaped logo was used next to the word "Ladakh." This question is intriguing so I've asked a couple of older Ladakhis who like talking about history if they'd heard of a Ladakhi flag, and they hadn't. BeckyLadakh (talk) 15:33, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Error on Map

The map that is used in this article has one factual inaccuracy. The Chinese name for Tibet is spelled "Xijang", but that is wrong. It should be spelled "Xizang", with a z and not a j. It's a great map, just that one little error. Also, I would have left this message on the maps talk page, but apparently (and I have no idea why) that is against the rules at wikipedia. David Straub (talk) 02:17, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions & Impr

This highly emotional remark in the article needs to be changed to an objective fact: " Oropolitics by Pakistan and cartographic aggression by the United States Defense Mapping Agency in 1957"... BeckyLadakh (tovementsalk) 08:51, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Well nobody else is doing it so I took it out today, along with this: "Most Hindu-Muslim and Buddhist-Muslim riots were initiated by aggressive speeches of Benazir Bhutto against Hindus and Buddhists. She asked local Muslims to attack and make Hindus and Buddhists evacuate Kashmir.[citation needed]" (It's simply not at all true) BeckyLadakh (talk) 14:02, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

I have deleted the following two statements because they are not true: " It is the coldest inhabited place in the world after Siberia.[1] The proportion of oxygen is less than in many other places at comparable altitudes because of lack of vegetation." ... A travel website, which has a commercial interest in hyping up superlatives, is not a reliable source. There are many places in the world colder than Ladakh. I have never heard of evidence that there is less oxygen in Ladakh than in other places at comparable altitudes; the weather systems blow in from elsewhere; presumably the air does too. This "fact" is frequently mentioned by the Indian Army to justify its tree-planting activities in Ladakh; however, I have never seen it in any other article or book. BeckyLadakh (talk) 09:10, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Travelmasti.com: Ladakh, Drass

Need to add flora

The Flora and fauna section only discussed animals. ... BeckyLadakh (talk) 09:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

This requires expert input. I'll place a request on Wikipedia:WikiProject Plants. AshLin (talk) 16:43, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Nobody else did, so I have added section on flora. I have frequently seen all the plants I mention around central Ladakh. I'm very sure of the ones I posted but I'm sure many more could be added. I don't know how to add references so could somebody please add these for me? I identified the plants from these: Flowers of the Himalaya by Oleg Polunin and Adam Stainton (Oxford U Press, New Delhi, 1994). Field Guide—Floral Diversity of Ladakh by Chaurasia, O.P., Khatoon N., and Singh S.B., WWF-India, Defence Institute of High Altitude Research (DIHAR) and Dept of Wildlife Protection, Govt of J&K, 2008. 

BeckyLadakh (talk) 14:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Vishnukumar7, 19 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} I was unable to find anything related to winters in Ladakh in external links.I am proposing to add following links about winters in Ladakh. Please consider these links to add as external links in wiki page.This content is original and owned by me.

Travel blog : http://thinkingparticle.com/blog/wild-leh-winters

Photo gallery with pictures on Ladakh in Winters : http://thinkingparticle.com/gallery/nubra-valley-0

If any alteration is needed before accepting the content,please let me know.

Hoping your positive response

Vishnukumar7 (talk) 12:14, 19 January 2011 (UTC) Not done: Neither of those links meet our requirements for WP:EL. The goal of external links is not to exhaustively cover ever aspect of the topic or every related link. And now that I see the list, I'm going to go through and cut at least half of the links already there, as they violate WP:EL and WP:NOT. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:10, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Proposal_of_addition_of_India_to_WP_Central_Asia

Hello, there is currently a debate underway to see whether India should be included in WikiProject Central Asia. Not many people have contributed so far, and as Ladakh is one of the areas with Central Asian influence in question, I would like to ask all editors with a background knowledge of this region to participate in the debate here. Many Thanks. --92.12.69.168 (talk) 19:13, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

elevation

want to write elevation: 3000+ .. doesn't work ... one day everything used to be simple and flexible .. now you have to follow rules of how to write .. it's becoming like a prison humph !! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meeso (talk • contribs) 18:54, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

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Buddhist POV, downplaying Muslims

A lot of this article is heavily leaning towards a Buddhist, anti-Muslim POV. Any mention of Muslims seems to be a passing reference despite them making up nearly half the population. The idea being pushed seems to be that Ladakh is some kind of Buddhist paradise "under threat of those nasty Muslims". No doubt the work of Indian Hindu nationalist editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.231.94.162 (talk) 14:04, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Ethnic squabbling

I have no expertise here, but a change like this in a featured article should not pass without citation: does someone have one? "…violent riots between Buddhists and Muslims" became "…violent riots instigated by Muslims against Buddhists." "…half of Ladakhis are Tibetan Buddhist (50%), with most of the rest being Shia Muslims (49%)" became "…a plurality of Ladakhis are Tibetan Buddhist (50%), with many of the rest being Shia Muslims (40%)." In the latter case either the article was wrong before or it is wrong now. Citations? - Jmabel | Talk 03:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the statistics for religious demography appear odd. A certain number of Ladakhi Muslims, especially in Leh and Kargil towns, are Sunnis, though certainly there are more Shias in total. Still, Sunnis are more numerous in Leh than Christians, etc. There are also Nurbakshis in Turtuk area. I haven't heard of any Ladakhi followers of Bon, only a very small number among Tibetans (not Ladakhis): other religions among non-Ladakhi residents of Ladakh are probably more numerous than Bon. Sorry I don't have any numbers or sources, and the poor internet services here in Ladakh mean I can't search the net well. BeckyLadakh 20:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
JMabel, I had reverted the first diff that you talk about. Not too sure about the statistics. Will leave some messages with the people who contributed to the article -- Lost(talk) 02:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
BeckyLadakh, there's one place with a satellite connection (a cafe on Changspa Lane from what I can remember, just after you cross the river?) that's faster and more reliable than the intermittent telephone and dial-up connections elsewhere in Leh if that's a help. Ask around in Leh as it was back in 2005 I was there.Beefy_SAFC 18:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually the census states that some 8% are neither Buddhists or Muslims, but Hindus and others.--86.20.74.243 (talk) 15:46, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Dawa, ethnically kargil is a part of baltistan. shia muslims are known as balti not ladakhi. for reference please read about the conflicts bettween ladakh and baltistan. baltis have more indo-aryan features then ladakhis. i am from zanskar and that is where we have a few sunni families living in padum the capital of zanskar.

the bottom line is that shia muslims of kargil are balti not ladakhi. not knowing this seems to couse all the confusion in the above discussion. buddhist ladakhi vs shia balti vs sunni kashmiri vs kashmiri pandit vs hindu dogra vs sikh punjabi and so on.......

the title should be ladakh vs baltistan rather then ethnic squabbling to be accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.193.35.133 (talk) 06:13, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

This is ungood

Aside from capitalization and typographical errors, the unsourced POV paragraph, born of controversy, quoted below is of poor quality for any noteworthy article, and certainly for an article imminently scheduled for the main page. Alas, I am insufficiently knowledgeable on the subject to determine what part of the paragraph's content, if any, is accurate and should remain in a rewrite.

The Ladakh Buddhist Association (LBA) often takes out protests and forces the entire Leh Bazaar to close down when a Buddhist girl marries a Muslim man. This is because muslims routinely kidnap Ladakhi women, often into polygamous marriages and because the Ladakhis fear absorption into the dominant muslim culture. Furthermore, lucrative trading positions withion buddhist communities are held by muslims, enabling them to marry buddhist women from poorer backgrounds. Marriage between muslim women and buddhist men is unheard of due to the restrictions that the muslim culture places on muslim women.

Should a wise soul successfully edit the section, I must also note I am not a big fan of the preceding paragraph's lead sentence A caste system exists in Buddhist Ladakh, wherein three groups, the Mons who play traditional music, the Garas who are blacksmiths, and the Bedas, who also play traditional music and are believed to have come in recent generations from Spiti area, are considered low caste by the middle (farmer) caste and the upper caste (former aristocracy)., though for more stylistic reasons. -- Michael Devore (talk) 15:38, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

The whole thing was unreferenced and is removed. Thanks for pointing it out. deeptrivia (talk) 03:52, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Dawa, imamia mission and caste system are very serious issues in ladakh. both the above should not be removed but yes they do need improvement. the native people of india have always been called low caste or uncivilised by immigrants like aryans n tibetans like myself. the actual word for these native or low caste people is munda as in birsa munda. secoundly since there is an islamic missionary in ladakh, its obvious that they are spreading islam http://imamiyamissionleh.org/. check out news of 3 buddhist low caste families converting to islam in padum date:24 sep, 2012. www.facebook.com/Padum.Zanskar

so please don't remove these two topics i.e. islamic mission and native ladakhis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.200.134.137 (talk) 14:56, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Possible corrections

I'm nervous about making substantial changes, after my first try where I made a small factual change and caused a bitter reaction from the author. So I'd like to suggest some things that are less than accurate, and hope that a better writer than me makes the changes.

Be careful not to confuse Ladakhi culture with Buddhist traditions. I changed "Traditional Ladakhi music, like Tibetan music, often involves religious chanting in Tibetan or Sanskrit..." to "The music of Ladakhi Buddhist monastic festivals, like Tib..." because this music is only one kind of "traditional Ladakhi music" and the other kinds are not exclusive to Buddhists, nor similar to Tibetan music, but bear more similarity to music of Muslim regions to the west. For example, the daman and surna music played at weddings and festivals of any religious community in Ladakh, and the "zhung-lu" folk songs. But it would be useful if somebody with more knowledge described those traditions.

Another inaccuracy: "The absence of a caste system." Whoa! There is indeed a caste system, and because of discrimination, Ladakh stands to lose its music and festival traditions! In Saspol, Nyemo, Skyurbuchan, and more villages, the Ladakhi New Year festivities that used to happen, unique in each village (certain dances, historical re-enactments, ice-water bathing, masked clowns, etc) have been dropped because musicians have left the village to escape caste discrimination, and the traditional activities require certain music. Now those villages have youth dance parties with recorded pop music instead.

Also,please be careful about using the present tense in reference to past practices. E.g., "Archery is a popular sport in Ladakh." Yes, many villages still have archery festivals (though again those are dying out because the necessary musicians are fed up with discrimination). But much more than archery, cricket is played by virtually every boy and some girls, and in World Cup year, football. In winter everyone is crazy about ice hockey although due to lack of skates, most don't get a chance to play. I don't mean these should be mentioned in the article: it's just an example of misuse of the present tense. BeckyLadakh 12:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Dawa, traditionally only mons play music in ladakh. mons as you know are natives and the general ladakhi population is tibetan. so its clear that ladakhi music will not reflect tibet so much. you will find daman and surna not just in ladakh but also in jammu, kashmir, himachal, etc cuz these so called low caste were living together here before immigrants came. hence, presently it is the monastic dances that are considered ladakhi since most ladakhis are tibetan immigrants. a large chunk of natives as you know left ladakh during tibetan invasions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.200.134.137 (talk) 15:05, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Map

It's odd that the map has dozens of towns in Kashmir but not Leh in Ladakh. Any alternatives? --regentspark (comment) 22:41, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Old sources

Ladak, physical, statistical, and historical ; with notices of the surrounding countries (1854)

https://archive.org/details/ladakphysicalsta00cunnrich

Travels in Ladâk, Tartary, and Kashmir (1862)

https://archive.org/details/travelsinladkt00torr

https://archive.org/details/travelsinladktar00torr

A trip to Cashmere and Ladâk (1877)

https://archive.org/details/triptocashmerela00lambrich

Rajmaan (talk) 19:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

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Ladakh peoples protests

It is so shame full situation that any coverage of Ladakh peoples protest against Shortage of drinking water, Lack of teachers in Indian Govt schools, erotic power supply, High air fares, Students rights, Killing of people in neighbouring Kashmir, Quota issue against Indian state Government and High court is forcefully being denied.

Is it your neutrality WP ?

I am disappointed with this cherry picking article which is just a no value article on current Ladakh population centres situation.

Every thing was sourced with 12 sources — Preceding unsigned comment added by LehPeople (talk • contribs) 12:44, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

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Are Buddhist a majority?

See Religion in India#Buddhist majorities - dubious. Thanks. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:17, 24 November 2013 (UTC)


- Yes! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.100.125 (talk) 23:03, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

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non-etymology

Ladakh has been described as 'The Mysterious Land of the Mystic Lamas', 'The Broken Moonland', or 'The Last Shangri-La' for its unique landscape and exquisite culture. One sees no horizon here but only mountain peaks soaring up to 5 to 6 km. In the prehistoric period Ladakh formed a Great Lake. Even at present the region has some of the largest and most beautiful lakes, Pangong and the Tsomoriri lakes. It is a repository of myriad cultural and religious influences from Tibet, Indian subcontinent and Central Asia.

I removed this passage from the Etymology section because it has nothing to do with etymology. Perhaps you can find more appropriate places for such bits of it as are not redundant. —Tamfang (talk) 07:10, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

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Untitled

Please include the following information:

The word Ladakh in Sanskrit is called Hataka, i.e., Hatakesvara Siva or Hatakasulin. Hatakesvara Siva was originally a deity worshipped by the Alpine-Aryans.

Reference: Kamarupasasanavali, Dr Dimbeswar Sarma(Editor), " Publication Board, Assam,1982.

The largest town in Ladakh is Leh. It is one of the few remaining abodes of Buddhism in South Asia

Excuse me???!!!

Links that could be of use

Discussion

Please comment and give opinion regarding upcoming big change at Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics#Kashmir pages.-Nizil (talk) 15:07, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Ladakh now a UT

I think we now should make Ladakh be an official UT since it has now been officially separated from J&K by the govt. C1MM (talk) 16:25, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

I will change this once I have seen that publication of an appointed day in the official gazette Cordyceps-Zombie (talk) 16:27, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

gazette for 370 repeal http://egazette.nic.in/(S(h5abx4eowoatfibyqkulwzwl))/RecentUploads.aspx?Category=6 144.48.78.178 (talk) 06:22, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 August 2019

Remove proposed as Ladakh is now a union territory Wqtr (talk) 14:48, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

The union territory of Ladakh will be formed on an appointed day to be notified in the official gazette of India. Until then, it remains a region in current State of Jammu and Kashmir. I will make the necessary changes on the appointed day once it is reached. Cordyceps-Zombie (talk) 15:30, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 Not done - As per the reasons cited above. Maranello10 (talk) 16:02, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

INB discussion

Please see the discussion at the India wikiproject noticeboard aiming to craft standardised neutral ledes for some top-level Kashmir-related article, including possibly this one. Abecedare (talk) 19:14, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Very vague terminology used ‘recently’

The article says... “Until recently, Ladakh was a division of the state of Jammu and Kashmir.” This is a subjective terminology as recently can be different in different people’s perception and therefore not factual. Pediasher (talk) 00:24, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

The Dogra connection

I removed a comment that referred to "occupation" by Dogras. That is terrible POV.

The facts are something like this. When Tibet laid a siege to Ladakh back in the 17th century, Ladakh sought help from Kashmir. In return it became a tributary to Kashmir (as a province of Mughal Empire). This tributary relationship then got transferred to Durranis and later Sikhs.

But it appears that Ladakh didn't take the Sikh suzerainty seriously and was defaulting on its tribute. That eventually brought Zorawar Singh to Ladakh. Singh came to make sure that the tribute was paid, but, after Ladakh rebelled with the help of Baltistan, he came a second time and annexed Ladakh and also conquered Baltistan. The conquest of Baltistan then had fringe benefits, viz., that Gigit, Hunza and Nagar voluntarily became tributaries of the Sikh Empire. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:02, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Please note consensus wording for an RfC

@Gotitbro, Vanamonde93, DeluxeVegan, Titodutta, Uanfala, Kautilya3, Johnuniq, Doug Weller, Lingzhi2, Moonraker, Saqib, RegentsPark, and Abecedare: Please note the tentative consensus wording for an RfC here for the phrasing of the lead sentences all sub-regions of the disputed Kashmir region. I have changed it to the consensus wording (see here and here), but I am on vacation, so I hope, others will keep an eye on these pages. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:57, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Please also note that what goes for Gilgit-Baltistan and Azad Kashmir also goes for Jammu and Kashmir (Union Territory) and Ladakh. In particular, the infoboxes, will need to have in the Indian-administered pages the same characterization as they do in the Pakistani-administered pages. Already, I notice, that drive bys and IPs are wreaking havoc on the Indian-administered pages, attempting to promote the conceit that they are indisputably Indian pages. Please help in keeping Wikipedia NPOV. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:57, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
In other words, the infobox on this page will need to say: "Region administered by India as a Union Territory." Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:57, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
I added those pages to my watchlist. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 22:08, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 August 2019

Ladakh is a union territory of India it's no more a state please consider changing this information. 42.108.200.74 (talk) 10:29, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

 Not done. It will be one only when the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill comes into force. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:41, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Ladakh has been a Union Territory since 31st October, 2019. The phrases currently on the page saying that Ladakh is part of the Kashmir region were never correct and need to be edited. Ladakh was never part of Kashmir or the larger Kashmir region (whatever that is), even when Ladakh was a part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir. Now that Ladakh is no longer part of J&K, these phrases really need to be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BeckyLadakh (talk • contribs) 13:52, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Official language(s)

The language parm in the infobox menions "Tibetan, Ladakhi, Hindi" as the official language(s) of Ladakh. Can anybody direct me to the source(s) supporting this? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:27, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

It's definitely not true, but I don't have sources yet. Under J&K state, the official languages did not include Hindi or Tibetan. As a separate UT, there are likely to be changes, but I think it is not clear yet. All the existing land records, court records and police records are in Urdu, so Urdu will continue in some capacity for sure. BeckyLadakh (talk) 14:05, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
BeckyLadakh, That's what I thought. Thanks. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:43, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
I changed the infobox to languages spoken and languages administrative. Yes I forgot about Urdu. Will add it. And to think that the Hindu nationalists are trying to get rid of all vestiges of Urdu ... Fowler&fowler«Talk»
Thanks Fowler&fowler. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:41, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Images

We need to select three representative images for the infobox. I think:

  • Ladakh is mountain country; so we need an illustration of that.
  • Ladakh is a historical trading centre; so we need something that represents the trade.
  • Ladakh is historically Buddhist; so we need a historical Buddhist illustration.

Any other ideas? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:50, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

In my view, all this should probably wait until the question of images in subdivisions of Kashmir administered by the different countries is resolved. Pictures of history, geography, biodiversity, or people, are independent of administration, and belong either to the Kashmir page or to pages such as History of Gilgit-Baltistan, Geography of Ladakh, Wildlife of Ladakh, but not to pages about the administered regions. In the other Indian administered union territory, Jammu and Kashmir (union territory), this has been followed, ceding its history ultimately to Kashmir. However, Ladakh, has not done that. In fact, the page is not even redirected to Ladakh (union territory), splitting the history, geography, etc to a page Ladakh (region) as proposed by @DeluxeVegan: on the Talk:Jammu and Kashmir (union territory) page. The problem of NPOV here is that the administrators will begin to take credit for content (such as wildlife etc) that is independent of and predates their administration. I will propose this on the Pakistan-administered pages as well. (I was hoping to take a vacation, but I have a sense that it will be a vacation only from creating new content. :) ) Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:39, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
In other words, at least for a start, Ladakh should probably be redirected to a dab page, just as Jammu and Kashmir is being now, (or is proposed to being now). The likely candidates for pages there would be Ladakh (union territory), Jammu and Kashmir (state), and Kashmir. It will require more discussion of course in a wider forum. But since there seems to be a mood for seeing clarity and organization in the Kashmir-related pages right now, it is probably best to strike while the iron is hot. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:09, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
In fact, there would be no reason for Ladakh (region) or Gilgit-Baltistan (region) as their time-invariant content, such as pre-1947 history, geography, biodiversity, would either belong to specialized pages mentioned above, or in summary form in the Kashmir page which is identical to Kashmir region. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:14, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
I really don't think we should be splitting Ladakh-related content across several articles in this manner. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the administrative unit largely coincides with the cultural and historical region, so they are best treated in the same article. I don't buy the argument that we'll somehow be crediting the culture and history to the administrative power – any article on a region will contain, as it should, content about the geography, history etc. – these are just facets of the topic. I don't think any of this content should be relegated to Kashmir – that article is too broad, and somewhat awkward in its scope the way it encompasses a motley of regions held together only by a 19th-century historical accident. As for the article on Ladakh, if at some point it accumulates so much content about the administrative set-up of the territory that a split becomes necessary, then that content could be moved into Ladakh (union territory), with the main article remaining about the whole topic. – Uanfala (talk) 13:39, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

A disputed region is a disputed region, regardless of how ad hoc or off-handed manner it was constituted, Most of the "history" in the Ladakh page is nonsense, a random collection of low-level sources (when sources are cited) without a single tertiary source (widely-used textbook for example) to ensure WP:DUE. The only reason why it exists is a red pen of RS and DUE has not been run through it. The geography (the Himalayas, the Karakoram, the soda plains) the biodiversity (the ibex, the snow leopard) is shared with a wider region in the Kashmir. These boundaries are not boundaries of biogeography but created in an even more ad hoc manner in 1947. The problem is not with Kashmir, but with the Kashmir article in Wikipedia which needs to be expanded. As I have said elsewhere, there are already parent articles History of Ladakh, Geography of Ladakh, Wildlife of Ladakh. There is no reason for the top-level summary to belong to the Kashmir article and be duplicated in the Ladakh article. Britannica, for example, keeps the pre-1947 history in its Kashmir page. If there were no disputes, it might have been another matter. Of course, it will need to be done across the board in all the first order sub-regions of Kashmir. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:03, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

PS See how small is the Britannica Ladakh page. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:21, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
PPS The Geography of Ladakh is worse. It has one long lead, which has even more random meditation on the geography of the general Himalayan region, needless to say, without sources, and nothing else. The Ladakh#Geography section is mostly a copy and paste of the former. The Widlife of Ladakh is a list a long copy-and-paste list of birds! It has a section of mammals whose range cuts across a wider region. I think topics such as economy, tourism, wildlife conservation, belong to this article, but not long sections on history, geography, and biodiversity. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:28, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

@SamanyaKannadiga: You should be discussing your changes here rather than engaging in Edit Wars. As I said in the edit summaries, everything J&K (including Ladakh) related should be discussed first so as to reach a WP:CONSENSUS. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:14, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Hi, I’m pretty sure Ladakh is officially pronounced with ‘x’ (in IPA) at the end, instead of ‘kh’. Especially considering that Ladakh is also written like this: ‘लद्दाख़’ (ख़) and only ever written with a ‘خ’ in Urdu (لداخ).

I have no sources but I’m pretty sure the one provided is incorrect especially because it pronounces “Ladakh” as “Ladakhe”. Taimoorahmed11 (talk) 13:46, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

You may be right (I don't know) but what we give as the pronounciation should agree with what is said in the reference we give. Thincat (talk) 14:33, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
User:Taimoorahmed11 is correct with respect to the correct pronunciation of "Ladakh" in Hindi-Urdu. I will try to search for a reference, User:Thincat. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 03:34, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi, is this link (https://cofactor.ng/ora/hi/m/01s6cy) suitable as a reference for this, the pronunciation seems to be correct but it doesn’t mention the IPA? Taimoorahmed11 (talk) 22:37, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Looking back at the link, for some reason it links back to the English pronunciation rather than the Hindi pronunciation. Link is broken. Taimoorahmed11 (talk) 23:14, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Map

The map in the article refers to "Pakistan-occupied" and "China-occupied" territories. These appear quite clearly to violate WP:NOV, and another editor on the Simple English Wikipedia has used it as a justification to say that these terms are acceptable. For these reasons, I have removed the map without seeking consensus. If any editor would like to restore it, I invite them to give justifications here, please. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 03:49, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Minor correction

I've changed references to Sinkiang in China, to Xinjiang. China changed the English transliteration itself on switching to it's own Pin Yin transliteration system of Chinese script to Latin script. Beefy_SAFC 18.37:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Ladakh region is administered by the republic of India. But it is written China in the country column. Also the official language here is given as Chinese and English which is incorrect. Please make the changes. Waddupboi31 (talk) 10:45, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

@Waddupboi31: Apparently fixed. --regentspark (comment) 13:17, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Language pie chart - is it supported by the cited source

Languages of Ladakh (2011)[1]

  Ladakhi (40.4%)
  Purkhi (33.61%)
  Hindi (8.94%)
  Balti (3.58%)
  Tibetan (2.33%)
  Kashmiri (1.13%)
  Punjabi (1.01%)
  Other (9%)
  1. ^ "Statement 1: Abstract of speakers' strength of languages and mother tongues – 2011". www.censusindia.gov.in. Office of the Registrar General & Census Commissioner, India. Retrieved 7 July 2018.

The following appears to be the document cited. But the data in it are for the whole of India, not just Ladakh. The access date given above is 7 July 2018, but web archives show versions that are also for the whole of India.

I do not see how the cited source supports the pie chart.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:52, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Change Indian administered Ladakh /LAC map slightly as area east of Demchok is under administration of China since 1962 war

Change Indian administered Ladakh /LAC map slightly as area east of Demchok is under administration of China since 1962 war. Please greyed out that area east of Demchok .
Sources:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53174887
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2018/nov/26/intelligence-agencies-warn-of-chinese-build-up-in-south-ladakhs-zeo-la-region-1903203.html
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ritabharidevi (talk • contribs) 11:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC) https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/guest-column/story/20200608-standing-up-to-a-stand-off-1683231-2020-05-30
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-china-tensions-in-eastern-ladakh-spike-briefly-after-locals-celebrate-dalai-lamas-bday/articleshow/70200054.cms
https://twitter.com/indopac_info/status/1267489461568335873
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/diplomacy/story/20130506-intrusion-by-china-india-border-dispute-763323-1999-11-30
http://ntdin.tv/en/article/english/indian-army-build-surveillance-capabilities-6-7-areas-along-lac
--Ritabharidevi (talk) 08:24, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

area versus length

" Out of the 857-square-kilometre-long (331 sq mi) border in Ladakh, only 368 km2 (142 sq mi) is the International Border, and the remaining 489 km2 (189 sq mi) is Line of Actual Control"

It seems seems someone did not know the difference between area and length. 200.68.142.26 (talk) 21:14, 26 July 2020 (UTC) baden k

Good catch. The error is in the original sources - but it is an obvious error. I fixed errors in the citations at the same time.-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:32, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2020

Add the following to the end of the 1st para inside the "Union territory of Ladakh" subsection of "History" section:

The demand for Ladakh as separate Union Territory (UT) was first raised by the parliamentarian Kushok Bakula Rinpoche around 1955, which was later carrried forward by another parliamentarian Thupstan Chhewang.[1] former Jammu and Kashmir state use to obtain large amount of annual funds from the union government based on the large geographical area of the Ladakh comprising 65% of total area of that state, but Ladakh was allocated only 2% of the total state budget based on the relative population size.[1] Within the first year of formation of Ladakh as separate UT, the annual budget allocation has increased 4 times from INR57 crore to INR232 crore.[1] 58.182.176.169 (talk) 17:02, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Added. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ a b c One year of union territory status: Ladakh brims with hope, Times of India, 3 usgust 2020.

Ladakh is not Kashmir

Dear editors, the lead section says " and constituting a part of the larger region of Kashmir, while the refs haven't stated any such thing. LearnIndology (talk) 12:27, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

It's a complicated issue. "Kashmir" has two different definitions: the historically and geographically accurate one, which is the Kashmir Valley (aka "Kashmir proper"), and the nowadays more common one, introduced under British rule, which is the entire region administered either directly by the former princely state of Jammu and Kashmir or one of its vassal states (such as Hunza). This sentence in the article is using the latter definition, and in that sense it's an uncontroversial statement: I don't think there's any doubt as to the fact that Ladakh was ruled by the Dogras.M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 12:39, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
Ladakh may have been called Kashmir by foreigners who had no knowledge about the region, but today it is not part of so called Kashmir, hence doesn't make sense in article. Apart from that, the very opening line says which has been the subject of dispute between India, Pakistan, and China since 1947. Dispute is indeed there, but that is not face of the state. So my recommendation is to shift that line somewhere down in lead section. LearnIndology (talk) 12:59, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
It seems like nobody have problem with the proposed changes. I will edit as proposed by tomorrow. In case if anyone opposes please do reply before I change it. LearnIndology (talk) 19:13, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
@LearnIndology: This is the phrasing in all subregions of Kashmir per a WT:INDIA and WT:PAK consensus. Please don't change it. Imtiaz is correct. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:21, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Then it needs to be changed. Because calling Jammu and Ladakh as "Kashmir" is like calling Punjab and Tibet as "Kashmir" which is quite absurd. Mistakes committed by Britishers should not be continued atleast on Wikipedia. See this article [5] These silly mistakes should not be repeated on Wikipedia. It is the time we change it. LearnIndology (talk) 19:37, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Why don't you advertise in both WT:INDIA and WT:PAK, then start an RfC, advertise that in various noticeboards, and if you receive a consensus, ask an uninvolved admin or closer, to close it after one month, after which you may change it. Be warned, it will receive a strong oppose from me, and very likely from all the people who supported the current consensus. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:00, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

See, for example, Talk:Kamala_Harris#RfC:_Should_Kamala_Harris_be_described_as_'African_American'_in_the_lead? for an RfC which is completing one month today and an admin is looking to close it. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:04, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

I note that Gilgit-Baltistan is considered part of "Pakistan-occupied Kashmir", rather than "Pakistan-occupied Ladakh", by India, which says something about how non-Indian sources aren't the only ones to use "Kashmir" in this sense. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 01:37, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Touché! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:55, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Gilgit Baltistan was called Pakistan occupied Jammu and Kashmir by Indian government, not Pakistan occupied Kashmir. See this[6], and Ladakh has been included as a part of GB. See this[7]. So calling Ladakh as part of Kashmir is laughable as well as absurd. See how much Ladakhis hate Kashmiris[8] LearnIndology (talk) 08:36, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
India's Minister of State for External Affairs is apparently unaware of that pronouncement of his career bureaucrat, for he said in the Upper house of India's parliament: "Government is aware that some of the proposed projects under China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) are in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK), ..." (see here) But those are in Gilgit and Baltistan, not Azad Kashmir. I suggest you pursue the RfC option, but not waste more time here arguing without evidence. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:37, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
The answer given by M. J. AKBAR clearly states the official stand of Indian govt on POJK:

Pakistan is in illegal and forcible occupation of parts of Indian territory in Jammu and Kashmir since 1947. Government’s principled and consistent position is that the entire State of Jammu and Kashmir, which includes the regions of Gilgit and Baltistan, is an integral part of India.

And the maps released by Indian govt [9] clearly shows both Azad Kashmir and GB as part of India, and GB as part of Ladakh. I don't know what more evidence you need.LearnIndology (talk) 12:05, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Changed it to Kashmir region. Now, can we go back to doing something more important than arguing about words? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:46, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

I am sorry but I didn't understood. I am arguing that Ladakh shouldn't be called Kashmir and the lead line about dispute should be bought down a bit in lead section.LearnIndology (talk) 13:55, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
What is it you don't understand about taking it to an RfC? You have just concluded a song and dance at Talk:India and you have a few hundred edits. Please study assiduously WP:Main article fixation. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:05, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

To add to article

To add to this article: information about the China-India border conflict that is taking place in Ladakh in September 2020. Source 173.88.246.138 (talk) 08:40, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

 Not done, there are multiple articles about that very topic. Prolix 💬 12:31, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Please don't be obnoxious with your use of "red X" symbol. If there are "multiple articles" about this very topic, why, after reading and rereading the article, can one not find Wikilinks to those articles (including doing CTRL-F searches for both "dispute" and "China")? The solution is, clearly, to add an easy-to-find Wikilink to one or more of these articles to the lead paragraph, where people will be looking for it, in the passage that reads, "which has been the subject of dispute between India, Pakistan, and China." I trust you will take care of this. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 21:27, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

The "red X" symbol is used to deny unreasonable edit requests such as yours. Wikipedia is not google, instead of wasting your time trying to CTRL-F your way to articles about the border dispute you could've gone to Google and found multiple articles about said topics: Sino-Indian border dispute, 2020 China–India skirmishes, Line of Actual Control. This article is meant to be a detailed description of the UT and its culture and not a repository of links to the various geopolitical issues plaguing the region. Prolix 💬 08:30, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

"Little Thibet" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Little Thibet. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 November 20#Little Thibet until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 10:21, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Consensus based language and infobox maps

The language in the lead and the maps are based on a long-drawn and hard-won consensus: Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_69#A_proposal_for_Kashmir-related_pages_on_this_notable_day_for_India_and_Pakistan and Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_69#Uniform_format_for_infobox_of_Kashmir-related_first-order_division_articles achieved with inputs from editors from WikiProjects India and Pakistan and half a dozen administrators in the first link and continuing with three in the second. I am sorry, but we cannot have editors altering these maps, or as it now seems, highlighting one first-order subdivision, and leaving the others in the dark. These subdivisions are those of the countries that administer a disputed region, i.e. Kashmir, not intrinsic to the region itself. I would like to request editors not to tinker with either the text or the map in any fashion. If everyone begins to look for their own special tweak, then we won't have any consensus at all. I'm on vacation until mid-February 2021 but am responding nonetheless because if I don't we'll have much more to alter and to correct in three month's time. I hope others watching the article will maintain its consensus language and maps. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:10, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

"Ladakh and Baltistan" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Ladakh and Baltistan. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 November 30#Ladakh and Baltistan until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Soumya-8974 (he) talk contribs subpages 05:50, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Regarding the transliteration and pronunciation to be used in the lead

Creating this section because this has become a mildly contentious issue. I believe the page should use either a Hindi or Ladakhi transliteration simply because the first is an official language of the region and the second is a widely spoken language in the region. Fowler&fowler believes it should be Persian that plays this role since that's the language the word originated from. Why Persian should be used instead of languages actually used in the region I am not sure. Since this is not how it is done on any other page. Pulling from the argument I made in my edit summary, both 'India' and 'Hindustan' are words originated from Greek and Persian respectively, but that doesn't mean we use those languages in the lead section of India's wiki page. Thus, I create this section to discuss the various arguments regarding this topic. Prolix 💬 19:24, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

All of them are undue for the lead. I moved Fowler&fowler's contribution to the Name section. What would be useful in the lead is an IPA transcription. Care to provide it? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:29, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Kautilya3's edit makes sense (to me). The Persian belongs in an etymology (or name) section and only IPA should go in the lead. --RegentsPark (comment) 19:31, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Thank you K3. As I say in my most recent edit summary, I was going to make the same edit as you just did, but the ec's became tiresome. Will give you the OED and Webster's Unabridged pronuns in a minute which someone can IPA. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Websters: "Ladakh (Geographical Entry) \lə-ˈdäk\", Merriam-Webster's Unabridged (on line), retrieved 7 December 2020 (subscription required)
OED: "Ladakhi (n) pronunciation/ləˈdɑːki/", Oxford English Dictionary (on line), retrieved 7 December 2020 (subscription required) Could someone convert it to IPA please? Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:41, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Thank you all, adding an IPA and moving the etymology to the Names section is probably the best solution as of now. However I still wonder, what is not undue in the lead? I understand the nature of this article makes it harder to implement any changes without creating some sort of dispute but one would assume that at least a Ladakhi IPA ([lad̪ɑks]) could be included in the lead since it is the primary language of the region. Prolix 💬 19:51, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
If the best argument you can think of is that something is "official", it is certain to be UNDUE, not only for the lead, but for the entire Wikipedia. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:59, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Kautilya3, that is not the argument I am making, how would Ladakhi be undue? It is the language of the region and therefore merits inclusion right? Prolix 💬 08:03, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Yes, Ladakhi would certainly be acceptable. But the language that was added was Hindi, which is only a recent entrant to Ladakh. Persian and Urdu have been in Ladakh for centuries. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:19, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Kautilya3, fair enough, that's all I wanted to know. Not sure if a template exists for Ladakhi as of now but a bare bones IPA can be added. Prolix 💬 18:23, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
I don't know about transliterations, but the Ladakhi original is spelt "La-dwags".[1] I have no idea how it is pronounced. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Ladakhi, which is a loose knit term for Bauti (spoken by 35.7%), Tibetan (2.33%), and Ladakhi proper (2.06%), together comprising 40% of Ladakh's population, is also the proportion of Buddhists there; left out, however, are the mutually intelligible languages for which no loose knit term has been devised: Purkhi (33.61%), Shina (4.30%), Balti (3.58%), "Others"(2.68%), and Dardi (0.76%) spoken by Muslims, and together approximating 45%. Ladakh, after all, has Muslim plurality (46%). It is not clear at all that "Ladakhi" whatever it is, is the "premier" language of Ladakh. I have corrected the article; it now says that Ladakhi is the predominant (group of) language(s) of the Buddhist-dominated Leh district. There is no reason to add the "Ladakhi" pronunciation in the lead sentence; however, both the Bauti and Purkhi pronunciations can be added (if knownn) in a footnote in the manner, for example, of other languages in Kashmir lead sentence. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:34, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

PS I forgot to add: if the rationale is no longer one of Ladakhi being the primary/predominant language of Ladakh, but of the language from which the English word "Ladakh" has descended, it too does not support inclusion in the lead. In the India page's lead sentence, for example, we do not add the Greek and Persian pronunciations "Indos" and "Hind" respectively of the two languages from which the word India has descended. Those belong to the Names/Etymology section and are already present on the Ladakh page. I think what we have now, the English IPA of Ladakh, is good enough, with a possible footnote if those of Bauti are Purki are known with reliability. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:00, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Powers, John; Templeman, David (2012), Historical Dictionary of Tibet, Scarecrow Press, p. 387, ISBN 978-0-8108-7984-3

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:40, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

The Bhauti nightmare

Toddy1, The census is a WP:PRIMARY source. Scholarly sources have long called the language as "Ladakhi". If people call it by a differerent name, and the census-takers have supported it for whatever reason, we don't necessarily follow them. To put "Bhauti" here, you need reliable linguists vouching for a separate language called "Bhauti" spoken in Ladakh. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:05, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

The 23 January version you have reverted to was not the WP:STATUSQUO. There were significant alterations to the wording between 20 and January.
Do you have any sources, scholarly or otherwise, that identify the language the Indian census calls "Bauti" (their spelling) as being the same language as Ladakhi? Do you have any reliable sources to back your contentions?
One of the big problems with the relevant linguistic articles is that they seem to be written on the basis of an unwritten policy that anything verifiable must be deleted.-- Toddy1 (talk) 22:21, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
(edit conflict) From a scholarly source:

The demand for the inclusion of Bhoti in the Eighth Schedule of the Indian Constitution is popular not only among the Monpas but also among other Tibetan Buddhist communities of India, and is justified on the ground that Bhoti is the link language of Zanskar, Ladakh, Spiti, Kinnaur, Uttar Kashi, Sikkim, Kalimpong, Darjeeling, Arunachal Pradesh and the entire Himalayan range of India (Gombu 2009: 5). Despite several variants of Tibetan existing as colloquial speech, Bhoti or Tibetan serves as the religious script and the language of the religious canon for Tibetan Buddhists in the trans-Himalayas.[1]

In other words, all these Himalyish people are claiming that "Bhoti" or "Bhauti" is their mother tongue, in order to get that language into the Eighth Schedule. This is language mobilisation, leading to false representations being made in the census. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:24, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

The scholarly views are already represented in the Ladakhi language. That is what we should link to, and ignore all other labels that have been put into the census. Unless the scholars have said that there is another Tibetic language being spokenin Ladakh, we should club all of them under Ladakhi. (Bhotiya is a little different but again we don't know what people meant by "Bhotiya". But it a small number. So we don't need to worry.) -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:30, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Gohain, Swargajyoti (2012), "Mobilising language, imagining region: Use of Bhoti in West Arunachal Pradesh", Contributions to Indian Sociology, 46 (3): 337–363, doi:10.1177/006996671204600304
Your deductions from that cannot be put in the article because they would be WP:OR.-- Toddy1 (talk) 22:28, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
That is as per what is in the Ladakhi language page. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:32, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
There is no citation for the statement in that page: In the Indian census, most Ladakhi speakers registered their mother tongue under "Bhoti."
All I am asking for is that the article truthfully represents what is in sources. And that if there is interpretation (other than basic arithmetic) then that interpretation needs citations from reliable sources, as per WP:VERIFY and WP:NOR.-- Toddy1 (talk) 22:37, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
If that is how you want to operate, then please feel free to delete all the census info. Unless it is validated by WP:SECONDARY sources, we are not obliged to include it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Another revealing paper is:

From the editors' introduction:

It [Ladakhi] is not only under strong pressure from the official state language (Kashmiri), but also from the elitist attitudes of Ladakhi Buddhist scholars, who advocate literacy and literature only in Classical Tibetan [Bhoti] — which many feel ought to be used for all writing, but which in practice only a few individuals master — and who work against promoting literacy and literature in Ladakhi. According to Zeisler, the classical orthography and grammar which represent some ninth century varieties — about as close to Ladakhi as Latin is to modern Spanish — are not suitable for writing Ladakhi, but at the same time, there are strong protests against using Ladakhi for literacy and literature by those who want to maintain the high status of Classical Tibetan.

Ziesler says that Ladakhi is still written in the Classical Tibetan script, if at all it is written. The clergy opposes any innovations. Children probably learn this script in primary school, in which there are no texts other than religous ones, and then move on to using Urdu/Hindi/English, which they don't understand anyway. She says they pass exams by cramming, without understanding. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:12, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the India Pakistan consensus of August 2019 about what map can be in the infobox

@Fowler&fowler: Regarding your edit of 4:18, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Per India Pakistan consensus of August 2019, only the CIA map can be included in the infobox; it is already there, please could you provide a Wikilink to the consensus you are referring to.

I do not mind your edit. I disagreed with the edit of 12:19, 29 January 2021 (UTC) that deleted the useful map and replaced it with an SVG map and a useless caption, which was why I restored the old map, but incorporated the SVG map showing the location of Ladakh relative to India, and explaining what the pink and red bits were. But if these was a consensus in 2019 not to use the SVG map, that is fine. But please can we have a Wikilink so that we can quote the decision to anyone who tries to restore the SVG map in future.-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:06, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

There are two: Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_69#A_proposal_for_Kashmir-related_pages_on_this_notable_day_for_India_and_Pakistan and Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics/Archive_69#Uniform_format_for_infobox_of_Kashmir-related_first-order_division_articles with the support of half a dozen ore more administrators. It has been in place since August 2019. No insinuations of sovereignty can be made in any infobox of a Kashmir-related region. Showing Kashmir in a map of India is an insinuation of sovereignty. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 03:52, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Please note that all the first-order Kashmir-related pages: Azad Kashmir, Gilgit-Baltistan, Aksai Chin, Jammu and Kashmir (union territory) and Ladakh have the same format in the infobox and the lead. CIA map only; no more than two pictures; and the same lead sentence. Best, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:14, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:33, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Kashmir Region November 2019.jpg Ladakh in Greater Kashmir.jpg

@Fowler&fowler: An editor has changed the map from Kashmir Region November 2019.jpg to Ladakh in Greater Kashmir.jpg in an edit at 06:52, 6 February 2021 (UTC).

  • The advantage of using the Ladakh in Greater Kashmir.jpg map is that highlights the area currently administered by India. Most current statistics on Ladakh relate to that area.
  • But Aksai Chin and Demchok/Demchok sector are part of the historical Ladakh, but the highlighting in the Ladakh in Greater Kashmir.jpg map suggests that they are not.
  • Some Indian government statistics for land area are done on the basis that the Pakistan-administered area of Gilgit-Baltistan is also part of Ladakh, and may also include the territory ceded by Pakistan to China in 1963 as part of Ladakh.

The Kashmir Region November 2019.jpg map is a neutral-POV map. The choice of where is highlighted in the Ladakh in Greater Kashmir.jpg map would have to be very carefully explained in the infobox before it was acceptable.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:07, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes. I had mentioned this above in the section: Talk:Ladakh#Consensus_based_language_and_infobox_maps Kashmir Region November 2019.jpg should not be tampered with. Thank you for noticing and posting. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:52, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Say NO to photoshopped images. The editor is now indef'ed. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:50, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Ladakhis article

Ladakhis was recently created. The topic is no doubt notable, but there's a hitch: the article is a content fork. It consists of an exact copy of the entirety of this article's "Culture" section and several paragraphs copied from the "Demographics" section, with no changes or additions apart from an infobox and an introductory sentence [10].

It's an option to have that text copied, but with the original replaced with a much briefer overview, or even better – write the new article from scratch at the appropriate level of detail. But I would think duplicating the same text at the scale of a whole article should be an obvious no-no? Any thoughts? – Uanfala (talk) 17:40, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Updated per request. LearnIndology (talk) 17:47, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Religion

Older version Rajualisameer's 8 June 2021 Version Ksh.andronexus's changes to the colours 29 June 21

Religions in Ladakh (2011)[1]

  Islam (46.41%)
  Buddhism (39.65%)
  Hinduism (12.11%)
  Sikhism (0.83%)
  Christianity (0.46%)
  Jainism (0.05%)
  Other (0.02%)
  Religion not stated (0.47%)

Religions in Ladakh (2011)[2]

  Islam (51.41%)
  Buddhism (34.65%)
  Hinduism (12.11%)
  Sikhism (0.83%)
  Christianity (0.46%)
  Jainism (0.05%)
  Other (0.02%)
  Religion not stated (0.47%)

Religions in Ladakh (2011)[3]

  Islam (46.41%)
  Buddhism (39.65%)
  Hinduism (12.11%)
  Sikhism (0.83%)
  Christianity (0.46%)
  Jainism (0.05%)
  Other (0.02%)
  Religion not stated (0.47%)

References

  1. ^ "Population by religion community – 2011". Census of India, 2011. The Registrar General & Census Commissioner, India. Archived from the original on 25 August 2015.
  2. ^ "Population by religion community – 2011". Census of India, 2011. The Registrar General & Census Commissioner, India. Archived from the original on 25 August 2015.
  3. ^ Cite error: The named reference census2011-C01 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

A "new" user tried changing the numbers in the religion pie chart today. When I checked the cited source to see whether the user was correcting an error, I found that the source had figures for 2011 for J&J as a whole, but did not separate figures for Ladakh. So I have moved the pie chart to the talk page fore the time being.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:12, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Population of Ladakh in 2011 Census.[1]
Total Hindu Muslim Christian Sikh Buddhist Jain Other Not stated
Leh 133,487 22,882 19,057 658 1,092 88,635 103 54 1,006
Kargil 140,802 10,341 108,239 604 1,171 20,126 28 4 289
Total 274,289 33,223 127,296 1,262 2,263 108,761 131 58 1,295
% 100% 12.11% 46.41% 0.46% 0.83% 39.65% 0.05% 0.02% 0.47%


Female Population of Ladakh in 2011 Census.[1]
Total Hindu Muslim Christian Sikh Buddhist Jain Other Not stated
Leh 54,516 924 8,564 189 74 44,616 54 25 70
Kargil 63,017 356 52,477 72 70 9,938 12 1 91
Total 117,533 1,280 61,041 261 144 54,554 66 26 161
% 100% 1.09% 51.94% 0.22% 0.12% 46.42% 0.06% 0.02% 0.14%

References

  1. ^ a b C-1 Population By Religious Community – Jammu & Kashmir (Report). Office of the Registrar General & Census Commissioner, India. Retrieved 8 June 2021.

So the old version was accurate - it was just that the cited source was the wrong URL.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:58, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

about map

i have changed this map to this File:Ladakh Union Territory.png. because this article itself use a title Ladakh not Kashmir, Ladakh refers to indian union territory and Kashmir refers to disputed territory, so for convenience of readers, i changed this map.if any reader want to know about the disputed territory he/she can easily check out this Kashmir article, but when someone click on Ladakh it means, he/she want to know about Ladakh, union territory so it is more suitable map of this article, if you think i made a mistake, please change the name of article and write the word "disputed" in the title, otherwise this page will always refer to union territory of ladakhZindahtohpyalabharde (talk) 05:36, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

First sentence

The first sentence currently says 

Ladakh /ləˈdɑːk/[7] is a region administered by India as a union territory, and constitutes a part of the larger Kashmir region, which has been the subject of dispute between India, Pakistan, and China since 1947.[8][9]

What if it were changed to 

Ladakh /ləˈdɑːk/[7] is a section of the larger Kashmir region of Asia.  Administered by India as a union territory, it has been disputed between India, Pakistan, and China since 1947.[8][9]

The current wording is complex, and where-in-the-world probably ought to come ahead of who-administers-it. All of Kashmir is disputed, of course, but all that matters for the very start of the article is that Ladakh itself is disputed. 64.203.186.84 (talk) 17:04, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:23, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2021

Under the "Names" heading, please make the following edit:

"The classiccal name..." to "The classical name..." 202.62.123.142 (talk) 02:47, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done thank you, - FlightTime (open channel) 02:52, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

"agitation" ?

Should "agitation" be changed to "support"? Agitation has such a negative nuance to the word. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.166.75.33 (talk) 04:51, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Which sentence are you referring to? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:12, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Pangong Lake

There is not a single picture of famous pangong lake. 2409:4060:2E83:74B3:D64C:EEC9:9BE6:2C5B (talk) 09:28, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Spoken languages

There is one more spoken language in ladakh which is Shina. Shina is the 2nd largest spoken language of district Kargil unfortunately this language is not enlisted in the article available about ladakh in Wikipedia when i try to edit the page is protected. Will someone help in this regard? Please Julayladakh (talk) 05:36, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Official language

Official language is not Hindi . Its spoken bhodi , written "uchan" and "thayik". Please correct the mistake Hindi . 37.60.108.84 (talk) 12:46, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2022

Voice of Ladakh is the largest circulated newspaper of Ladakh published locally for locals. The paper was started in 2013 which has now a news portal also i.e. voiceofladakh.in. It circulates both in Leh and Kargil district of Ladakh. Earlier, the name was included here which is now removed. Kindly edit the media section and add this information.

There are a handful of private news outlets. Voice of Ladakh, a weekly newspaper in English and Urdu, is the largest circulated newspaper published by and for Ladakhis. Reach Ladakh Bulletin,[148] a biweekly newspaper in English, is a print media published by and for Ladakhis. Rangyul or Kargil Number is a newspaper published from Kashmir covering Ladakh in English and Urdu. Ladags Melong, an initiative of SECMOL, was published from 1992 to 2005 in English and Ladakhi. Sintic Magazine, a lifestyle and tourist magazine of Ladakh, was started in 2018 in English. MAAsgar (talk) 09:29, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Kautilya3 (talk) 21:11, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 December 2022

2001:8F8:192F:259B:DAD2:2E64:A1F:14D (talk) 14:39, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

add Emblem of Ladakh page to See also.

 Done RealAspects (talk) 14:59, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

RfC: Proposal to use Infobox Indian state or territory for Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh pages

Should we use the Infobox Indian state or territory instead of Infobox settlement on Jammu and Kashmir (union territory) and Ladakh? This would mean without the flag icon and emblem, while keeping the current image map. Prarambh20 (talk) 16:08, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't see any flag icon or emblems on the current revisions on either pages — DaxServer (t · m · c) 13:55, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
Yes, the current version doesn't have an icon or flag, but the proposal aims to replace the Infobox settlement with the Infobox Indian state or territory, while retaining the "no icon, flag structure". This new Infobox can be used appropriately for these administrative regions' pages, without affecting any existing applications. Prarambh20 (talk) 03:58, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 July 2023

Please add the following to the See also section

Thank you. 119.74.238.54 (talk) 12:55, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Already linked in the lead section. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2023

Change Azad Kashmir to pakistan Occupied Kashmir Change Green color in pakistan occupied Kashmir to another color. change green color Change narration 'Kashmir divided in two..' to occupied Kashmir Change narration/label/ color of Gilgit, Baltistan to pakistan occupied territory 114.143.115.34 (talk) 12:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. M.Bitton (talk) 15:21, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
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