Talk:Juwan Howard

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Featured articleJuwan Howard is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 18, 2013.
Did You KnowOn this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 18, 2010Peer reviewReviewed
August 29, 2010Good article nomineeListed
September 22, 2010Featured article candidateNot promoted
October 3, 2010Peer reviewReviewed
October 15, 2010Featured article candidateNot promoted
May 15, 2012Peer reviewReviewed
October 4, 2012Featured article candidateNot promoted
February 1, 2013Featured article candidateNot promoted
March 31, 2013Featured article candidatePromoted
May 18, 2013Today's featured articleMain Page
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 4, 2010.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Juwan Howard was the first student–athlete to graduate on time along with his class after declaring early for the NBA Draft and joining the National Basketball Association?
On this day... A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on February 7, 2023.
Current status: Featured article

VD and Censorship[edit]

Why is this being censored? What does wikipedia have to hide? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.170.226.91 (talk) 08:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Derek Anderson[edit]

The following should be included:

During the 2000-2001 season, Howard played for the Dallas Mavericks against the San Antonio Spurs in the second round of the playoffs. During a game, he slammed Spurs guard Derek Anderson to the floor, injuring Anderson, and was ejected. The Spurs easily defeated Dallas in the series but were swept by the Lakers in the next round, largely due to Anderson's injury. As a result, Howard is hated in San Antonio and is held responsible by fans for costing the Spurs the 2001 NBA Championship. --William S. Saturn (talk) 20:55, 19 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nash and Nowitzki[edit]

In the line: "On a team with All-star Michael Finley and future all-stars Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki, Howard was the highest paid player" - perhaps "future all-stars" should be replaced with "future MVPs" since this is accurate and more impressive.--William S. Saturn (talk) 07:51, 28 May 2010 (UTC)Yes I agree with William since Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki were both MVPS. (Steve Nash in 2005 and 2006 and Dirk Nowitzki in 2007).[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Juwan Howard/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Wizardman Operation Big Bear 19:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Due to the size of the article and a lack of time on my end over the next couple days, I will split this review into sections.

Lead/High school[edit]

  • "Howard would later be drafted well ahead of Thomas in the 1994 draft" reword to note he was drafted a full round ahead; more exact figure that says the same thing.
  • "He was selected to the Chicago Sun-Times All-Area team and the Class-AA All-State team.[16][17] He established himself as the top Chicago area junior ahead of Kleinschmidt." can be combined in one sentence; helps to get rid of consecutive "he"s to start off a sentence too.
  • "He had subpar performance against.." a subpar
  • "In late April, Howard was informed that he had passed his ACT test, which made him eligible under Proposition 48 academic requirements to play as a freshman. Only eight of the top 25 Public League players passed." the ACT isn't a pass/fail test, so could this be clearer?

College[edit]

  • "In November 2003, Mitch Albom released his book Fab Five: Basketball, trash talk, the American Dream chronicling the recruiting of and first two years of play of the Fab Five" anything notable from the book to add in here? The insertion of this seems jarring and out of place, and is probably not needed, though interesting.
  • "Howard earned the regional MVP award with a game-high 30 points and 13 rebounds despite collecting 2 fouls in the first 2 minutes in the Elite Eight round" numbers under 10 should be written out.

Washington[edit]

  • "Howard's hometown Bulls' second game of the season was as host to the Bullets who did not sign Howard right away." feels trivial, could probably be removed.
  • "In the offseason, the Bullets traded Chapman, MacLean and Duckworth.[107][108][109] They drafted Rasheed Wallace." sentences can be combined.
  • "Nonetheless, 1995–96 was Howard's best season. During the season, he finished 3rd in the NBA in minutes played, 6th in points scored and 10th in points per game (22.1)." not the best use of the word 'nonetheless', a different word can be used, and those sentences can be combined.
  • "Averaging 22.1 points, 8.1 rebounds and 4.4 assists, he was named to the All-Star team for the only time in his career." you mention the only all-star appearance already, making this redundant; reword.
  • "The league ruled on August 5, that the Bullets could resign Howard after having renounced his rights on July 15 to free up cap room to sign Tracy Murray and Lorenzo Williams if they forfeited their 1997 NBA Draft first-round selection rights." this should come before noting that he signed then, plus the first comma isn't needed.
  • "The contract made Howard the first NBA player to sign a $100 million contract." mention this earlier, so not needed.

Post-Washington[edit]

  • Reiterating that in most cases, number under 10 are spelled out. I fixed these myself where it was needed, but left the final few paragraphs of 07-present unfinished.
  • "2004–05 season he accumulated 7 double doubles, 0 30-point performances and 0 15-rebound performances in 61 games (47 starts),[" we can probably just take out those nonexistent 30-point/15-rebound type performances, no reason to keep them in. Same for in a later paragraph.
  • "Howard had terms agreed to with the" change to 'had agreed to terms with the'

Other sections[edit]

  • "His biological father was Leroy Watson, Jr., who wanted to name Howard Leroy III, but his maternal grandmother.." 'to name him', I'm sure you mean.

Misc/refs[edit]

  • No issue ref-wise. I'll put the article on hold and give you five days to fix everything, then I'll hopefully pass it. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 14:33, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • What happened to seven days?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:49, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've shrunk the on-hold time because of how bad the GAN backlog is; have to speed up what i can. This should only take you 20 minutes or so anyway, no biggie. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 02:59, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • I have 5 GA reviews to respond to, a FLC and an FAC to address as well. I will start within 5 days, but doubt I will be done.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:22, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
          • Noted, though instead of handling any of those today you wrote and added two more GANs.. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 00:43, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
            • Yes, I am trying to get all the guys at Category:Princeton Tigers men's lacrosse players up at GAC. There is one more I want to do. I have been working on these guys for a couple weeks.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
              • All very lovely Tony, but your priority should be responding the reviewers' concerns instead of writing more articles to wack up to GAN which already had a massive backlog... Aaroncrick TALK 11:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
                • I apologize, but I am trying to get them all on the main page to expose the new content to fresh eyes. They consist of 11 new articles and 5 expansions. The expansions are proving difficult since currently only 2 of the 5 are 5x and 2 are languishing around 4x. I am going to nominate them all in a few hours at DYK, but want to try to get them all to the level where they are bolded and drawing attention of the readers. I will give this one some time today.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since almost all of my concerns were met and given how many GANs you've got to deal with yet, I decided to be nice and do the last 10% myself. As such I'll pass the article as a GA, nice work. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 04:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Copyediting questions[edit]

Lead

  • I think "man-games" needs a link or an explanation. I don't see anything to link to. I'm pretty sure "man-games" means the total number of games the team played multiplied by five. Also, the man-game numbers should appear in the main text if they appear in the lead since the lead is a summary.
    • Man game is not exactly the number of games multiplied by five, but in this case it is because we are talking about 5 guys. During a season each player (man) can play in each game giving the possible number of games for that man as the number of games on the schedule. There is no real link, but I am open to suggestions on addressing this issue.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:59, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

High school

  • "The summer after his sophomore year, the 6-foot-8-inch (2.03 m) Howard attended the Nike/ABCD camp" - I'm pretty sure this refers to a training camp sponsored by Nike, but I don't know what ABCD means, and I don't see anything to link to. Is it an abbreviation?
    • Although out of context ABCD could be the name of a company with two companies getting together to put on a camp, I believe it is just some sort of name for the camp. I think the reader is best served knowing he went to a camp affiliated with Nike. I have no further content for ABCD to add or link to.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Involved in controversy for receiving a second pair of sneakers, he was sent home on the last day of the six-day camp." - Should I add the word "early" so the phrase reads "sent home early on the last day"? I assume that was the case, but I shouldn't just guess.
  • "He also participated in the B/C camp" - I don't know what B/C means, and lots of other readers won't know either. Can you help me out with this?
    • Maybe recruits are graded as A, B, C, D recruits. I really don't know. It is just a name to me and I have no further info.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't think that has anything to do with it. The B/C All-Stars Basketball Camp was owned by Bill Bolton and Bill Cronauer [2], so my guess is that the name derives from their last names. I can't find anything that explicitly says that, though. Zagalejo^^^ 04:39, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Zagalejo. That was enough of a hint that I found it here. BC stands for Bill Cronauer. Finetooth (talk) 17:14, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, OK. Good find. Zagalejo^^^ 03:07, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]


  • "Because of Howard's admiration of Thomas, he was said to be leaning toward playing for the Illinois Fighting Illini alongside Thomas or possibly DePaul." - I think this means that Thomas had not decided whether to play for Illinois or DePaul. If so, I think this would be more clear: "Because of Howard's admiration of Thomas, he was said to be leaning toward playing for the Illinois Fighting Illini or DePaul alongside Thomas." Or, if Thomas had definitely chosen Illinois, then maybe this would be more clear: "Howard was said to be leaning toward playing for DePaul or, because of his admiration for Thomas, for the Illinois Fighting Illini".
  • "By this time, Howard had eliminated DePaul from consideration since Deryl Cunningham had transferred to Kansas State." - I think this is the first mention of Cunningham. Maybe he should be mentioned in the sentence above about Howard's leaning toward DePaul or Illinois?
I think I could just add "another Chicago-area all-star" after Cunningham's name. This would be supportable but is not likely to be challenged, and it would make it more clear why Howard would be interested in Cunningham. Finetooth (talk) 17:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That is good for now. I am going to go into the Sun-Times archives in about an hour and see if I can help you any further.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm having some trouble with the fourth paragraph, which begins "After his junior year... ". Most of the paragraph is about the second Nike camp, but sentences about the Boston Shootout and the Prairie State Games are in there too. Could we say something like "During the summer, he also took part in the Boston Shootout and the Prairie State Games"? It might be helpful to say where these events were held and to add the chronology. Did they come before or after the Nike camp?
We could just delete the Prairie State Games sentence, which is the only one left in the paragraph that interrupts the logical flow of the prose. I'm not sure his performance in one game was of much significance. Finetooth (talk) 18:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Howard, who finished in the top 10 percent of his class, is said to have influenced King's decision to attend Michigan." - I assume this means top 10 percent academically. If so, is that connected to his influence over King, or did the influence come from Howard's playing ability? The sentence seems to suggest that King was impressed by Howard's scholarly ability. Should we separate the two ideas?
Done. Finetooth (talk) 18:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Finetooth (talk) 23:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Copyediting question (College career)[edit]

  • "During the 1992 summer, controversy arose when three Wolverines were found to have been paid $300 to participate in a charity basketball tournament and others, including Howard, appeared at several summer basketball camps together." The pay is a familiar no-no, but is appearing at basketball camps a no-no? I'm pretty fuzzy on the NCAA rules, so I wouldn't know one way or the other. If this is an NCAA rule, what problem is it supposed to address? Are they not supposed to go to these camps at all, or are they not supposed to go together? Or is it something else? Finetooth (talk) 01:42, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Got it, thanks. Finetooth (talk) 04:45, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage, philanthropy[edit]

Tony, do you want to include anything about his marriage and contemporary family or the Juwan Howard Foundation? I find mention of these by Googling, but the sources seem mainly to be blogs and fan sites. If you have good sources and want to add a sentence about his marriage (when and to whom) and his son (name, age), and maybe a sentence about his charitable work, I think that would be good. Finetooth (talk) 17:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He has an older son according to this.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The most reputable links for his current relationship all fail WP:RS (non-RS, needs subscription, non-RS). We could include one of these and say that for an article with this many reffed facts, the only thing we can not adequately source is his current wife and family. I can't find any marriage info in the Sun Times or Tribune or any mention of his current wife's name.
Adding content regarding his foundation is fine if we can find a WP:RS.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here is some good stuff about his foundation:

http://www.iamatrailblazersfan.com/ArticleDisplay/tabid/120/ItemID/1442/Default.aspx
http://www.maxpreps.com/news/a1HroHKyEd6OEwAcxJTdpg/illinois--former-chicago-star-juwan-howard-returns-with-camp.htm
Mentioned here: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/juwan_howard/bio.html

Tony any thoughts on adding specifcs about lifestyle and life off the court of Jenine and Juwan? Here is a good link to gather some information:

http://mirramirror.com/2011/04/nba-wife-spotlight-jenine-howard/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paymoney (talk • contribs) 23:43, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Question marks in citations[edit]

  • "Temkin, Barry (1989-07-13). "On high schools". Chicago Tribune: p. 5, section ???." - Should a section name or number be added to each citation like this one with question marks?
  • I think I found the article under a different title at online from the Tribune archive in the External links. I have swapped it into the article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:07, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What about the other 50 or so that end with three question marks? I don't think these will get through FAC. Here's a partial list of citations with the same problem: 21, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 36, 37, 38, 48, 49, 52. This is by no means the complete list. I was hoping you had handwritten notes or something with this data included. Finetooth (talk) 02:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why I put the question marks, but we now have the Tribune archive in the external links and can find links to all these articles. What I had to do for the one above was go to the archive. On the right side the articles are by date. At the bottom on the right you will see a 1|2|3|4|5|next option. Click any of those. At the top you will see the page number is the last character of the url. To go past 5 you have to do so manually by changing the URL. All articles can be found I imagine. You can start if you want. On Tuesday, I will have time to help out. I will do the odd ref numbers if you like. Then we can remove the print edition page numbers. I added the question marks because I know the Tribune has sections and these sports stories are usually in the sports section, which is not section one.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:00, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Tony, I just don't have time to do this. I have many other things to do on Wikipedia as well as many outside responsibilities. I think the article is ready for FAC except for these tedious citation chores and perhaps adding a bit more about Howard's personal life, as noted above. I've been glad to help, but I don't actually need to be a co-nom or get a star for this. All I did was a careful c/e, mostly just a very careful proofreading. If you can find another co-nom who is willing to finish out this last part and maybe cast another set of eyes over the article, I won't mind at all. Finetooth (talk) 04:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would not even feel right about not having you as a co-nom at this point. You only have 5 days from when you start an article to get it up to WP:DYK standards. Since I am in the WP:CUP I have to add a bit to a bunch of articles that I started in the last few days that are in this template. I could lose 50 or 100 easy CUP points if I do not do this. After I fill in a few more of the low hanging fruit from this template I will fill in the refs at Juwan Howard and add in the personal stuff. I should be able to do some of that on Tuesday. I am shooting to get this up at FAC before the end of the week. I assume you are watching this page. You will see me swap out the refs and fill in some personal stuff. I think you should be along for the ride at FAC.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:09, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Because of the Chicago weather, I was able to avoid a 4 hour commitment. That will give me four hours today to work on this. Will start within the hour.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:50, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have swapped out the print refs for online refs. Out of the dozens I could not find two in the Trib archives and had to go back to the ProQuest source.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see discussion about bringing this up for a FAC review from over two years ago. It looks ready for consideration ... is there any reason it should not be reviewed for FA status?--Epeefleche (talk) 17:07, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Howards Grandmother passing away[edit]

I think there needs to be something about Howards grandmother passing away on the day he signed with Michigan added to the artical. Then how the coaches showed up to give him support at the funeral. Here is some refs about that. http://mitchalbom.com/d/journalism/2904/tonights-nightthe-tall-man-middlelost-and-found-family http://mitchalbom.com/d/journalism/3189/great-recruiting-chasehow-determined-u-m-wom-howard-and-webber this guy wrote a book with the info in it and here is a transcript from "The Fab Five" from ESPN Films http://livedash.ark.com/transcript/the_fab_five/33/ESPN/Friday_March_25_2011/574923/ Theworm777 (talk) 11:08, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • I see "Howard's grandmother died of a heart attack a few hours after he announced that he would attend Michigan" is in the start of the high school section, but it dont show how the coaches show up to give him support there and happened during his senior year. He also signed his letter of intent that day not just announce he was going there. Theworm777 (talk) 12:36, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you have a suggested summary that you feel should be in the article? You seem to be more familiar with this issue than I. Would you care to take a stab at this issue?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:11, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • On Nov. 14,1990 Howard's grandmother died of a heart attack a few hours after he signed his letter of intent to attend and play for Michigan. [1][2] Coach Fisher, his wife, Angie, and Coach Dutcher, showed up to give him support at her funeral. Them being there was important to Howard,[3] who has said "It was like I lost one family, and I got another one". [4] After her death, he moved in with his high school coach, Richard Cook, during his senior year.[5]

Is something like I think it should be.But I am not sure where it should be at either after it says he announced he would attend Michigan on Nov. 2nd or at the end of the lead of the High School section also not sure if the 3 new sources are good enough. Theworm777 (talk) 17:25, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Albom[edit]

Is Albom's book a work of fiction? Google books labels it as such, and it appears to be written in the style of a novel. DrKiernan (talk) 17:36, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@User:TonyTheTiger: was my query above missed? DrKiernan (talk) 18:21, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't even understand your question? How could it be a work of fiction?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:18, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The source provided in the article says that it is. And unlike other biographies there appear to be no sources listed in the book itself. However, I have seen on Albom's website that it is listed as non-fiction[3] so the question is now moot. DrKiernan (talk) 12:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Kids[edit]

How many kids does he have. this Joshua Howard page claims 3. this Jace Howard page claims 6.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:18, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Punch[edit]

@ZimZalaBim: Hey! I saw you removed the section about the altercation with Gard – it is a recent event, but there have already been calls to fire him from his position as a result of that. (There are also countless twitter posts, though I doubt those contribute at all to this discussion, though there is this.) Seems like a pretty significant event that has gotten lots of recent news coverage – sure, it's recent, but that doesn't mean it's not able to be included. However, I am all ears for whatever you have to say here! Skarmory (talk • contribs) 00:56, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No doubt there is news coverage and random calls to fire him and twitter responses. But that's not what an encyclopedic biography is about. If this becomes enduring or there is some actual response that impacts his employment or status, then it would seem to be notable for inclusion. Until them, WP:RECENT seems to suggest avoiding any significant mention. --ZimZalaBim talk 02:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Okay; I suspect he'll get suspended eventually, which I assume would qualify under "impacts his employment or status". Until then, it can stay out, and if that never happens it'll stay out forever. Thanks! Skarmory (talk • contribs) 06:31, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed if there are some long-lasting impact from the event, then suitable for brief mention in our encyclopedia. --ZimZalaBim talk 15:09, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference Hehg was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ http://mitchalbom.com/d/journalism/3189/great-recruiting-chasehow-determined-u-m-wom-howard-and-webber
  3. ^ http://livedash.ark.com/transcript/the_fab_five/33/ESPN/Friday_March_25_2011/574923/
  4. ^ http://mitchalbom.com/d/journalism/2904/tonights-nightthe-tall-man-middlelost-and-found-family
  5. ^ Cite error: The named reference GmiH was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
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