Talk:Grigori Rasputin/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Archive 5

Daughter's Books

Since I read the books by Rasputin's daughter, Maria, everything else I read about him seems so biased towards the sensationalism. I find it strange and unacceptable that her books about her father are not listed under the Books section of the page on Rasputin.

Team Fortress 2

The heavy update in TF2 adds an achievement "Rasputin - In a single life, get shot, burned, bludgeoned, and receive explosive damage." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.120.233 (talk) 10:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Rasputin Music, California

Seems no one here is familiar with the very popular chain of record stores located throughout the San Francisco Bay Area that chose the mystic monk for its namesake and mascot. HE WAS KILEED BY THE RUSSIAN PRINCE FELIX YUSSUPOV

Spy

I would like to point out that it was not Rasputin who was accused of being a spy for the Germans, but Alexandra herself. Rasputin was not German and had absolutely no reason to be pro-German. However, the Russian population wrongly accused Alexandra, who was definitely German, of passing classified information to the Germans so the Russians would lose against the Germans. Support for this is that the Russians fought very well against the Austrians, but not the Germans. However, Rasputin was never accused of being a German spy.

I think Wikipedia is the greatest encyclopedia ever invented, but you need to get your information right. I strongly suggest that the people who write articles about Russian history should read the books published by historians such as Massie and Figes, both of whom are experts about the Russian Revolution.

^ In response to the statement above: Rasputin certainly was rumored to be part of the pro-German cabal at the center of the court at the outbreak of the war, there was nothing—logic least of all—to keep such rumors from spreading. Anna Vyburova refers to the rumors in an interview she gave shortly after the Revolution: http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/annainterview2.html helio 05:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

is there anybody out there?

I am getting seriously sick and tired of looking things up on the venerable Wikipedia and finding simple vandalism. Can someone with more knowledge than I PLEASE correct this article....

copyvio

Give me a break. Bony M did it better. You think nobody ever heard it? Trekphiler 20:12, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Help Anyone?

I'm trying to do some research on Rasputin and his religion and the shaman aspect of him. Anyway, I need something from some one that had direct contact with him. Anyone know of any sources?--The_stuart 16:22, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think you ought to start with Grigory Rasputin's two own books - "My Life in Christ" and "My thoughts and meditations" (I'll try later to add some links). As to 'shaman aspect', haven't quite got you. 'Rasputin's religion' isn't quite that, believe me.--Artmann 05:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Dates

From page "January 10" is no link to this side. But this seems to be the birthday. Instead there is a link from "July 29". Same with day of death (16.12. vs. 29.12.). BTW I don't know the correct dates.

Assasination attempts and sex life

I want to bring one fact to the discussion: One attempted murder at Rasputin was just as the czar had to make up his mind about how to react on Austria´s rage on Serbia, Summer 1914 when Serbian terrorists had assasinated Österreich-Ungarn´s Prinzregent. Although Rasputin´s sexual life was Kennedy-like (this guy was assasinated, too) his political mind was sober, and many people say that he would have impressed on the czar that Russian monarchy could only loose in a full-grown war against the technically superior Germany.

There is no solid evidence that the British were involved in Rasputin's death. I have removed the passages that state there is prrof they were.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg 19:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Name

The article has the sentence: "There is no definite explanation of the origin of this not uncommon surname which does not have a "disgraceful" meaning, as the contemporary Russian writer Valentin Rasputin would be quick to explain." Should this not read "There is a definite explanation..." ? (The author goes on to give such an explanation).

Edward Radzinsky clearly proves in his book on Rasputin that Rasputin did not in fact name himself with that disgraceful name but actually tried unsuccessfully to change his name to Nowy. It wouldn't work - his detreactors liked the ugly name he was born with too much to let it pass. So, I rewrote the article and fleshed it out a bit more - the more details there are, the more apparent it becomes how *strange* that man actually was, and how important his concededly minute role in history and politics finally turned out to be.-

Are you sure about "Rasputin" meaning "licentious"? I was under the impression it meant "mud", as in "rasputitsa" -- "mud season" (i.e., "rainy season"). Is it slang? -- Paul Drye

I am sure of the translation I saw in Dutch, and choose one of the three possible translations of that word into English. How about "dissolute", does that come a little closer to the idea? Maybe we should ask Alexandr Voronov if it's slang or not. I know 'Njet' in Russian, that's about all.

It would depend on which idea you are getting at: "licentious" has connotations of sex, while "dissolute" is more general -- it could mean gambling, or laziness, or a number of other things. -- Paul Drye

In on of the articles I read about this guy, a bookreview about Rasputin I believe it was, was clearly indicated that he was known for his sexual excesses, debaucheries, dissipations ( you see why I have much respect for professional translators?). In round words, he messed around with women a lot - if that biographer of Rasputin is right. The article also indicated that a lot of people in St. Petersburg knew about it. It means that "licentious" wasn't that bad a choice after all. Agree?

Well, the problem I have is that I believe Rasputin chose his last name for himself -- as he was a self-styled religious prophet, I would be VERY surprised if he called himself licentious :) I thought he named himself after the Russian word for "mud" as a false show of humility -- Paul Drye

I see your point if what you say is true. He certainly wouln't have called himself that way. But are you sure he choose his own nickname? Would it be possible that this word has TWO connotations in Russian? One he used as a kind of honorary nickname, and one the people mockingly called him after awhile? Like he showered St. Petersburg with filthyness?

--Paul, I have incorporated your remarks in the text and and added some remarks about his religious status. And someday, someone will come along who knows for sure...:).

Well, I'm Russian; here's what I know about the term:

"rasput" appears in four distinct meaning:

rasputitsa - I have never actually heard this word used, although it may have been more common at the turn of the century.
rasputye - a crossroads, literally "where paths split."
rasputat' - to untangle
rasputnost' - debauchery, licentiousness.

We need a philologist here... --KamikazeArchon

I've seen rasputitsa in connection with the German invasion of USSR, described as the "season of mud" or "season of no roads" (spring rainy season, in this instance). I've never seen it connected to Rasputin until now. Trekphiler 20:23, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I seem to recall that he named himself rasputin, something to do with being associated with a flaggelant cult or something like that. --alan d.

"Rasputin" refers to the terrain where the Rasputin family originally settled. It was common to adopt surnames in the manner long ago. This was the family name well before Grigori Efimovich Rasputin was born. It is not an uncommon surname (example: contemporary Russian writer Valentin Rasputin).

Rasputin was not a member of the Khlystii sect; he did check it out, but was appalled by what he found. He had no involvement with the flaggelent sect, believing (as most Orthodox Christians do) that our bodies are a gift, in sense a tool to use as we work our way through earthly life.

In great contrast to the West's views of Rasputin, formed mainly through movies and factually-questionable/debatable books, the Orthodox Church of Russia has given serious consideration to canonizing Rasputin, basing this on the man rather than the myth. Rasputin was flawed, and he sinned, like all of us do.But his faith was very strong, and he lived his life freely giving whatever he had.

Whatever "rasputin" means, it wasn't his name. I've read it was Novyk(h), likely a transliteration of what he wanted to change it to. Anybody know what his true birthname was? Or what authoritative sources think it was... Trekphiler

There's a section in the article about the meaning of the name, would that help? Also you are right about the meaning of the word "rasputitsa", and true, the family name Rasputin bears no such connotation (as far as I know :). - Introvert ^talk 01:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

References requested

It would be cool if you guys referenced a few movies, and maybe some literature (romance, biographies) about him. Thanks! Yves 01:34 Sep 13, 2002 (UTC)

I'm just watching Elem Klimov's Agonia (Agony), first cut in the late 1970s but blocked by the Soviet regime (though it was hardly anti-Soviet in any precise political way), and not released in the USSR until the mid-1980s (it was shown in a special screening at the Venice film festival in 1982 and thus got known in the West). Great movie, with a baroque evocation of Rasputin, the charged atmosphere at the court and the unrest around them. Alexei Petrenko makes a stunning performance as the prophet, utterly convincing and from within, the rest of the actors are also top rate, and the final murder scene is painfully spooky and true-to-style. Amazing. It's available on a good region 2 dvd from Ruscico, the Russian Cinema Gouncil, with dubbing and subtitles in major european languages, Japanese and Russian.Strausszek November 24, 2006

Affair with Tsarina? Starets as a term.

Does anyone know if Rasputin and the Tsarina ever had an affair? I have heard rumours about this, but I cannot find a reliable source which either refutes or confirms this.

Regardless of literal meaning I am not sure I like the term starets being applied to Rasputin. St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Sergius of Radonezh are starets or starsti (plural) and it would not be good to confuse people with the terms. Starets is a term usually applied by Russian Orthodox Christians to an incredibly great and holy spirtiual teacher, most always a monk. No matter what information comes to light about Grigori Rasputin, I do not think such a title applies.

There's no evidence that Rasputin was anything more than a friend too the Tsarina. The letters that she wrote to him and vice-versa seem to support this view. Plus, Rasputin had plenty of girls, of high and low birth. He probably wouldn't have risked his neck for sex.

Also, Rasputin was repeatedly referred to in his lifetime as a Starets.

The Tsarina wrote some very flowery letters to Rasputin, but she wrote flowery letters to everybody. Friends as well as family were used to her affectionate diminutives and her kiss-kiss, love-love signoffs. The idea that they were having an affair is ludicrous. Rasputin was a lech, but he would not have been so stupid as to engage in any sort of sexual liaison with a woman in a veritable Goddess-like position of authority. Anyway, he didn't have to. His influence over Alexandra was much more about her indebtedness to him for helping Alexei. I've seen two well researched biographies that called him a starets and said a lot of people at the time thought of him that way; that's enough for me. --Bluejay Young 03:39, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

The Tsarina and Rasputin did not have a physical relationship but she had a crush on him. Rasputin did know this, so did everyone else at court and elsewhere, and used this to his advantage as history shows us. As for the Starets term, Rasputin was called this in a backhanded and sarcastic way. It was meant to curb Rasputin and his actions/words, not to compliment him in any way. Obviously this did not work as intended. Hamster004 (talk) 10:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)Hamster004

Esoterica as fact

One paragraph ends with:

"The idea that one can attain grace through sin is not secret. It is also understood that sin is an inescapable part of the human condition, and the responsibility of a believer is to be keenly aware of his sins, and willing to confess them, thereby attaining humility."

Does this seem like a non-sequitur to anyone else? It sounds like an assertion of fact rather than of opinion, and as if it belongs as part of a different article.

While it would certainly be a good place to link to an article discussing the idea, I don't think asserting this as fact is appropriate for this article.

The idea of attaining grace through sin is a misconception about certain belief systems which state that once having attained a state of grace, one can commit what in a lesser being would be called "sins" without harm. Once one is confirmed to be living in full accord with God's will, everything one does must be God's will. This idea is presented in the "sinful Messiah" passages of the Bible, is used to explain what King David was up to, and was used by David Koresh to explain some of his more unusual practices. The most famous fictional use of the concept is in Robert Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land, where it is used to describe the innermost circle of Fosterites. --Bluejay Young 03:57, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Potassium cyanide

The article says that Rasputin possessed a certain condition that made him invulnerable to potassium cyanide. However, the Potassium cyanide article here says:

The antidote against potassium cyanide poisoning is glucose which can greatly slow down the poison's effect and protect the cells by binding the cyanide competitively. The somewhat legendary immunity of Gregory Rasputin to cyanide was not due to his supernatural powers, but due to the incompetence of his killers: they put poison in sweet pastries and madeira wine, both of which are rich in sugar. Rasputin was administered the poison together with massive quantities of antidote, and didn't die until Prince Felix Yusupov shot him.

Furthermore, the article on Achlorhydria mentions nothing about the condition's effect on potassium cyanide.

Someone much more knowledgeable (or eager to do research) should clarify this.

I contributed that bit about potassium cyanide - my source is a bit flimsy : it is what we were taught in medical school. I'm afraid I can't add anything to the glucose binding of potassium cyanide being the flaw in the poisoners' plan, and I wasn't able to find anything more about Rasputin's achlorhydria on the web.

A bit off-topic here -- does that mean that potassium cyanide can't kill a person with diabetes? The Amazing Turnip 13:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can see, glucose is not an antidote for cyanide; it is used to ameliorate the harmful side-effects of dicobalt acetate, one of the antidotes. For example see the following page at the UK Dept. of Health, section 4.7: http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/Browsable/DH_4875689

69.108.80.197 (talk) 05:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC) Robert Hamersley

But there is this BBC article about some recently unearthed papers which claim:

The principle assassin, Prince Yussupov, shot Rasputin in the chest at point-blank range after wine and cakes, heavily laced with potassium cyanide, failed to kill the monk, say the history books. Then, as the prince bent over to look at the body, the formerly lifeless corpse rose and grabbed the prince in an unbreakable grip - or so the story goes.

But Radzinsky's book says that Yussupov may have deliberately fluffed the murder, because the transvestite prince was in love with the monk. He then invented the story of Rasputin rising from the dead to cover his tracks, and make himself look more heroic.

Or maybe he was actually a vampire, & is now living in a trailer in Encino with Elvis & Joss Whedon... Trekphiler 20:28, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh, for.... *headdesk* Radzinsky can't tell a transvestite from a homosexual? Was Yusupov gay? I read that he simply acted very feminine because his mother, having no daughters, raised him as a girl. --Bluejay Young 03:57, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Tsarina of German desent?

I've been researching Rasputin quite a bit lately, and it seems to me that the Tsarina was not of German desent but rather was a part of the British Royal family. More information will be forthcoming. [[User:Consequencefree|Ardent ^†_∈]] 09:32, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

If you find an additional info, I hope you will ad it into Romanv's article, not only here. Mikkalai 16:56, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Aye. It looks like she was one of the Queen's daughters but I need to cross check my sources first. According to the one that's how haemophilia got brought into the Romanov line, through the Tsarina. Hmm I wonder [[User:Consequencefree|Ardent ^†_∈]] 08:41, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The entire British Royal Family at that point was basically German. King George I of England was chosen from the line of Kings of Hannover, in Germany. Georges I, II, and III all married German brides. Queen Victoria's father married a German; Victoria's husband, Prince Albert, was German. All nine of their children, although born in Great Britain, were of German descent. Princess Alice, the Tsarina's mother, married a Grand Duke Ludwig of Hesse, a German. So I think we can safetly say that Alexandra WAS in fact, of German descent.

Moreover, her unpopularity was due to the PERCEPTION, accurate or not, of Alexandra as a German. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vikingwoman2 (talk • contribs) 14:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

^ Precisely. —helio 05:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Spirit of Grigori quote

The quote as it stood had an added line. I changed it to remove that line but I also inserted the rest of the quote that had previously been omitted. I'm going to insert information relevant to the added portion of the quote within the next week. [[User:Consequencefree|Ardent ^†_∈]] 11:28, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Rasputin's Penis

It looks to me as if the anon contibution was legitimate and not random information or vandalism. The info is taken directly from one of the websites we link to at the bottom of the page. The previous info on Rasputin's penis had no source and was an a seemingly unfounded claim. The news site we link to even has a picture. I'm gonna give this one the benefit of the doubt. [[User:Consequencefree|Ardent ^†_∈]] 09:14, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Doubt, that's the correct word. A paparazzi article on a webpage is not a valid source for the encyclopedia. If the source were the museum's own website, then I would give it some credibility. Also, how do you imagine the display of 30-cm penis, i.e., in the erected state? The spirit of Rasputin was so strong? :-) Mikkalai 16:54, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I saw the same info on a BBC site, which I'd give at least a bit more credibility. Now I'm just trying to find it again.. arg =P [[User:Consequencefree|Ardent ^†_∈]] 08:41, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I can't find any reputable news sources covering this, though there is this broken yahoo news link that is listed a couple places.

Absent scientific verification, it seems possible the object is the penis of another species, or is actually a part of another organism, such as a sea creature or mushroom. The owner of the museum likely profits considerably from his claim.

This google cache is of an interesting weblog that is currently unavailable:

It definitely looks like a penis, but is it Rasputin's penis (which, according to legend, was 13 inches long)?

As it turns out, Rasputin's penis has had a rather colorful history since its separation from his body. Here are some of the highlights. In 1916 Rasputin and his penis parted ways due to the machinations of a murdering gang of angry nobles. But, according to rumor, a maid found the bodiless member at the crime scene and saved it. During the 1920s a group of Russian women living in Paris acquired it (or acquired something that they believed to be his penis) and worshipped it as a kind of holy relic, while keeping it inside a wooden casket. Rasputin's daughter, Marie, didn't like the idea of her Dad's penis hanging out with these women, so she demanded the thing back. And it presumably stayed with her until she died in California in 1977. It then disappeared for a while until it came into the possession of Michael Augustine, who found it tucked away in a velvet pouch along with some of Marie Rasputin's manuscripts that he bought at a lot sale. Augustine sold the well-travelled penis to Bonham's auction house who then discovered (surprise, surprise!) that what they had bought was not a penis, but instead a sea cucumber.

That's where events stood in 1994. Now, ten years later the Russian Museum of Erotica is claiming that they have Rasputin's penis. Igor Knyazkin, the director of the Museum, claims that he bought it from a French antiquarian for $8,000. Which just begs the question: where did this French antiquarian get the penis from? One might also wonder why the Museum's penis is preserved in fluid, whereas all early accounts of Rasputin's penis describe it as dried out.

Comments following the weblog:

Many reasons I think it's fake:

-The fist picture I saw of Rasputin's penis a few years ago din't look at all like this.

-If a french had this penis he would have sold it at the erotic museum in Paris. Why did he wait to sell it in Russia?

-When the murderer of Rasputin cut it off they certainly didn't spent half an hour carving out testicles and other guts visible on the photo. They would cut just the "main" part.

My first thought on seeing this "pickled penis" (couldn't resist) was that it reminded me of a geoduck (pronounced gooey-duck) clam.

[There] exists a mushroom called Phallus impudicus. If it is a hoax, maybe it is a pickled mushroom.

Sure looks like a geoduck clam to me! Also, I agree that a person murdering Rasputin probably wouldn't have taken care to surgically remove all the gonads. More than likely, he'd just hack the member off at its base.

Also check out this south african editorial which contains an alternate photo, though a better version of the photo can be found here, here, and here. --Nectarflowed ^T 13:18, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the paragraph in question and am putting it here for those who like to entertain this anecdote. No credible source supporting this speculation in sight. May I suggest that this stuff remains stashed away from the article - unless the Russian erotica museum itself can confirm this grossness to be a fact?

Supposedly, Rasputin's penis was cut off and preserved after he died. A Russian museum of erotica displays an object they claim to be his penis [1], though there is no credible verification, which could be obtained in the form of DNA comparison. The object on display (presumably flaccid) is unusually large, though this contradicts the memoirs of one of his friends who saw him in a banya and claimed that his body looked pretty ordinary (except that he appeared much younger than his age). Additionally, there are questions whether it is possible there has been distortion of the spongy tissue from the preservation process; early reports of the preserved penis refer to it as dried, not preserved in formaldehyde. It is also possible the object on display belongs to another species, or is merely a part of a sea creature or mushroom.

- Introvert ^talk 21:34, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

That specimen is definitely a hoax. Not even a human's. No human penis would reach this length and girth in a FLACCID state! For if so, it would reach not less than 60cm when erect, and that's totally unthinkable by any means. You may ask what if it's in an erect state? I can tell you it can't be. Since it was amputated after Rasputin's death, and there must have passed a considerable amount of time before its conservation, it must have returned to the flaccid state. I'm not sure though if they could fill it with blood or liquid, but it's very unlikely to be succesfully done. That is just a donkey or a horse penis. Haisook 00:04, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Massive rewrite

For anyone paying attention I'm embarking on a massive rewrite of this article. It's disorganised and facts are spread around in a most random and non-sequential manner.. it's really frustrating to me. Also I think some of the information is dubious at best. I hope to have the rewrite done by February 20th, so check back around then to see the new version =D [[User:Consequencefree|Ardent ^†_∈]] 08:05, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I suggest you to do it in the Grigori Rasputin/temp page, to avoid edit wars in the main aricle. Mikkalai 16:48, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Actually I'm doing it offline, that way someone else isn't editing my revised version, I'll upload it when I'm done (incorporating, of course any new info). Anyone that objects to the new version could forseeably bring it up on talk, but I don't see why they would =D well I'm off to bed. [[User:Consequencefree|Ardent ^†_∈]] 02:53, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Rasputin, Grigory Yefimovich

Why is this a separate article? We already have an article on Grigori Rasputin. Kukuman 04:40, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Rasputin, Grigory Yefimovich contains additional information about Rasputin. It only involves the historical Rasputin; it doesn't have miscellaneous and scattered information about him, such as the Rasputin from Hellboy and whatnot.→ JarlaxleArtemis 04:55, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The extra info it contains should be merged into the existing Rasputin article. There is no reason to have a whole other article just for different things about him. Kukuman 04:58, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

OK→ JarlaxleArtemis 05:07, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Here is a non-redirected link of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rasputin%2C_Grigory_Yefimovich&oldid=10314120 → JarlaxleArtemis 05:26, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That's good to know. I'll work the information from that one into my massive rewrite which should be done sometime on Sunday, then we can redirect Rasputin, Grigory Yefimovich here, effectively merging and redirecting the two versions. [[User:Consequencefree|Ardent ^†_∈]] 02:50, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The idea that one can attain grace through sin is not secret. It is also understood that sin is an inescapable part of the human condition, and the responsibility of a believer is to be keenly aware of his sins, and willing to confess them, thereby attaining humility. I removed this sentence as it appears to be odd, barely understandable and out of place. Refdoc 21:37, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ok, well the rewrite has been delayed.. I had to finish up some university scholarship stuff. It will be up on Saturday, I'm just proofing it. [[User:Consequencefree|Ardent ^†_∈]] 05:29, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Attempted merge

I attempted to merge any new content from Rasputin, Grigory Yefimovich. I'm new at this, so you may want to double check this merge. Also, I found conflicting reports as to whether or not Rasputin had water in his lungs when he was found. Does anyone know for sure? I left the text alone for that portion of the article, but it needs to be fixed.--Msmitey 23:44, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sorry - made a newbie mistake and didn't check the talk page before I worked on the article. Didn't mean to step on your toes, Consequencefree. Of course, revert and delete as necessary.--Msmitey 23:52, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Drowned or not?

It seems that there is disagreement in the different drafts of this page on whether or not Rasputin died of drowning. In my history class, the teacher used a bunch of reliable books as he taught us about Rasputin and at some point (though I think it was just his words) he insisted that Rasputin had drowned. The current version says that he didn't drown. Can there be some clarification on this?

So far as I know, the article is correct. The body was supposedly found by authorities, but was later lost. The whereabout of the corpse is unknown today as there have been no Soviet documents released in regards to the matter. The absolute viability of the claim is something I don't know, but this is the explaination that I heard: the temperature of the water and possibly some action taken by Rasputin himself in an attempt to stay alive slowed his heart, and he didn't draw breath the entire time. When the body was recovered, there was no water in his lungs, which is the basis for the story. It also supports the claim that Rasputin was alive and fighting to live even after being poisioned and shot multiple times, based on the extant accounts of his murder.

It's entirely possible, and based on what we do know, it's plausible. --Kaelus 11:38, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Recent information has come to light (the title of the book slips my mind at the moment, but I believe it was in the memoirs that Purishkevitch wrote) stating that neither the wine nor the tea cakes were laced with cyanide; the doctor chickened out (his name starts with an L, I can't think of it at the moment). Given this information, if Prince Yusopov shot him, it is likely that he survived the bullet wounds and even being thrown into the icy river, after which he drowned. There is also some speculation about the "Spirit of Rasputin" letter, and it seems that it was a fake. His secretary invented it, and it seems books and movies about the family have used to build up the myth surrounding this man. Morhange 20:18, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Reading Purishkevish's 'diary' right now. He claims that the cakes and wine had cyanide, although his discription of the cyanide doesn't seem quite right. It was Rasputin's daughter that said he was hyperacidic and would have avoided the wine and cakes. Sethwoodworth 07:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I suggest a separate article should be written regarding the murder of Grigori Rasputin where all of the current theories could be covered, and we should only give factual information + link here. The problem is that at the moment there are several different versions and a discussion surrounding the factual evidence. Plus I've found some nice photoes. Cyberodin

Rasputin is such a legendary figure, written - and sung - about so much that actual 'facts' about his death are really difficult to verify, aren't they?Janeybee 21:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Date of birth

The article states two different dates of birth; 23 January 1871 (introduction) and 10 January 1869 (Healer to the Tsarevich). Which is correct? Whichever it is, one date should be decided upon so that the article doesn't contradict itself. Avalyn 13:19, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

His date of birth is unknown, or at least disputed. I have changed it to just 1870 ?, as that seems to be about average. The article does discuss this, but we are the top Google hit, so we should at least be consistent. --Apyule 01:24, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

The difference is probably due to the different calenders used by Russia and the rest of Europe as the Russian calender is about 2 weeks behind the European.

Affair with the Queen

There is nothing about his supposed affair with the Queen in the article at all (in fact the article only mentions Queen once, and that is Queen Victoria). Does anyone have any indepth information on this? The Rasputin (song) by Boney M mentiones that he had an affair with the Queen, so the concept is out there, weather it is true or not it should be included and then explained if false. --ShaunMacPherson 02:39, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Canonization Claim

Inside the article was written:

In fact, after the fall of the Communist government, key documentation was discovered, and the Church considered canonizing Rasputin as a martyr.

And written below was...

In great contrast to the West's views of Rasputin, formed mainly through movies and factually-questionable/debatable books, the Orthodox Church of Russia has given serious consideration to canonizing Rasputin, basing this on the man rather than the myth.

Not only is this not supported by a source within the Russian Orthodox Church, it's totally false. The Moscow Patriarchate and His Holiness Alexei II have condemned this idea in the strongest terms, which is supported only by a small, uneducated sect attempting historical revisionism. The Patriarch said in a statement in 2003 (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/02/05/003.html):

“This is madness! What believer would want to stay in a Church that equally venerates murderers and martyrs, lechers and saints?”

Raputin's debauchery has been studied and well-documented by sober scholars, inside and outside Russia, that current claims from the aforementioned sect can be placed in the realm of black helicopter stories and world Jewish conspiracies. In fact, the Jewish conspiracy claim is the oft given reason for the supposedly "Western" attempts to smear Rasputin because Rasputin spoke against the evils of Jewry.

Written below:

Regardless of literal meaning I am not sure I like the term Italic text starets being applied to Rasputin. St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Sergius of Radonezh are starets or starsti (plural) and it would not be good to confuse people with the terms. Starets is a term usually applied by Russsian Orthodox Christians to an incredibly great and holy spirtiual teacher, most always a monk. No matter what information comes to light about Grigori Rasputin, I do not think such a title applies.

This is true. Considerable doubt through sober scholarship has been cast on whether Rasputin was a practicing Orthodox in good standing with the Church. The Church has spoken out against this man's morality and beliefs as being unOrthodox. It's probable that his earlier experiments as a "Khlyst" were not entirely forsaken, and a hybrid, personal religion of his own arose from those experiences. -- Rick Mason 08/13/05

simple pharmacology

Is so hard to believe that this impressing monk with his in-built xenophobia cancelled all drugs for the young boy, prescribed by (mostly) german physicians? At THAT time salicilic acid was almost the only pain-reliever (besides morphine). And in THAT very case he was right: this only not only causes side-effects (there must be some reason why acethyl-salicilic-acid was inventented some years later) but also aggravated the underlying disease. Although (for to-be-critics) one may argue that ASS is infereing with a totally (?) different part of the blood-clotting system, one HAS TO assume that the omission of the drug caused instant relieve..A WONDER!

Anyway: the article is ridiculous anyway (penis size, british agents...)

Learn how to use a colon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by M173627 (talk • contribs) 18:47, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction

Somone needs to clean up the assassination section. I know nothing about Rasputin, but I can clearly see that "Nonetheless, even with poison, bullets and bruises, there is evidence that Rasputin still managed to move about under the freezing ice water before finally dying." and "Though unsupported by fact, some believe he survived for a short period of time in the iced-over river." contradict each other. --Maru (talk) Contribs 01:20, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. The assassination explanation did not flow well at all, and didn't make much sense to me. I thought I was the only one. Please fix it up.--Dan 10:21, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Wack 'theory' removed

I removed this link:

*[http://www.sacredchao.com/2005/10/illuminati-science-transcendental.html ''Conspiracy Theory''] - Rasputin Achieved Immortality using Transcendental Illumination, and is now posing as Criss Angel

from the External Links section, because some random unfounded incoherent blog blabbering about angels and transcendental illuminati is absolutely irrelevant to this (or any other) article. --Matthias Bauer 22:48, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I've removed it again as well. It also keeps showing up on the Chris Angel page.Sarahe 00:48, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Correction- it would not be irrelevent on a page titled "Transcendental Illumination"

Huh ???

Huge problems with this paragraph: Grigory Efimovich Rasputin was possibly born a peasant in a small Siberian village along the Tura River called Pokrovskoye on January 10, 1869. This village was located in the Tyumen district. He was, at the time, intransigently associated with the Siberian Toshkjav and had preached the Word of God since he was eleven.

What does the "possibly" refer to? that he was born as a peasant? or that he was born in Pokrovskoye? or that he was born on 10 January 1969? or some or all of these? Which of these details is/are known to be true, and which is/are "possibly" true?
what does being "born as a peasant" mean (if that's what the writer was actually getting at)? One doesn't normally call new-born babies "peasants". Wouldn't it be truer to say he was born "into a peasant family"?
"At the time" - meaning at the time of his birth - he was "intransigently associated with the Siberian Toshkjav". What???? The only thing he was associated with "at the time" was his mother's breast !!! It could only have been some very considerable time after his birth - like, many years - that he became associated with the Siberian Toshkjav.
what is the Siberian Toshkjav? What is any Toshkjav?
what does "intransigently associated with" something mean?
"and had preached the word of God since he was eleven". The verb particle "had" implies that this happened before the main thing we're talking about. In other words, he preached the word of God since he was eleven, and then some time after that, he was born. Absurd?? Yes, indeed.

Normally, I'd just go in and fix these kinds of errors, but in this case I just don't know what the writer is really on about. I need help. (So does the writer, but that's another story). JackofOz 06:42, 25 November 2005 (UTC) JackofOz 06:42, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Would you still be available to help fix the Huh ??? please? - Introvert ^talk 06:21, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

The whole article needs close scrutiny and a virtual re-write. I'll get to it this weekend. It will take time. JackofOz 00:21, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh, no rush, by no means. Was just checking if you are still interested :) Thanks! A virtual re-write is not exactly the same as just a re-write, no? :) Otherwise, sounds a bit scary... huge effort? Good luck and best wishes - Introvert ^talk 01:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

-->> Under a careful disclaimer of an ignoramus on the subject... but just for starters, since no one else has picked this up so far -->>

I'd say, let's assume:

the village name: Pokrovskoye (I believe it should be, historically, in Tobolsk gubernya though, which is within modern Tuymen district) + "into a peasant family" is certain. Even the date 10 January (which is, btw, 23 N.S.) seems more or less okay (though not 100% either; I saw other variants) -- but the year of birth isn't nearly quite as certain. Different sources quote different years of his birth, e.g. 1872 (ms encarta), 1865 or 1872 (hronos.ru) - and the date of birth is a careful 1870 ? in the header for that very reason, I guess
I think it must be "born into a peasant family"... but may be the author meant to point out that Rasputin was doomed to naturally fall into peasantry for the life of his (which he surely did not ;)
no clue about "Toshkjav" :( I'll try and ask around... can't promise any positive result though (nor that I could ever do anything quickly)
"intransigently associated" - ditto, no clue :(
"preached the word of God" - that seems dubious, to say the least, even if the grammar tense gets fixed; I think the whole point is about him abusing what he preached at every step, or is it?

Hope others with more knowledge will one day stop by and pitch in.

Thanks for the useful and so nicely entertaining discussion :) sorry if I couldn't help enough - Introvert ^talk 00:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

A "Toskjav" update here; talked to a friend local to both Tobolsk and Tyumen... who's been to Pokrovskoe village and seen the place where Rasputin's house once stood, who's visited the Tyumen local history museum which has a section about Rasputin... and this person has never heard of anything similar to that word. This of course doesn't prove that "Toskjav" never existed -- but to me, it does validate certain grave suspicions :) Since none of the cited sources has any mentioning of any toshkjavs, and nobody explained what that is, I dare to propose that we remove it from the article. If it remains here on the talk page, and if references are found later, somebody will hopefully resurrect the legend then? - Introvert ^talk 06:19, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

"'and had preached the word of God since he was eleven'. The verb particle "had" implies that this happened before the main thing we're talking about. In other words, he preached the word of God since he was eleven, and then some time after that, he was born. Absurd?? Yes, indeed." See this part here? That me me laugh out loud. In any case, it IS quite an absurd assumption. ---ASTRA!!!!!!!!

CLARIFICATION: --"Grigory Efimovich Rasputin was possibly born a peasant…” means that his family from the nobility class (also called the gentry or gentry’ class) and now was poor with nobility in title only and that didn't get you anything at court but no respect and bad words. The family fell from grace from the Czar and court since they were now working nobility, due to the lack of wealth and had to work for a living, and was considered peasants because of this even though they were of the nobility and owned land. They were known to live in a peasant area where peasants lived and procreated. They went from upper class (nobility) to lower class (peasants) with a noble title. --“…intransigently…” From the dictionary, Intransigently means: 1. (Adjective) refusing to agree or compromise: uncompromising; inflexible. Noun 2. A person who refuses to agree or compromise, as in politics. So Rasputin was very stubborn and inflexible in his beliefs. --“…He was, at the time, intransigently associated with the Siberian Toshkjav…” Rasputin’s inflexible and rigid beliefs caused him to align with the Siberian Toshkjav even though he was not a member of this religious group. The sentence means that Rasputin was aligned with the Siberian Toshkjab during his proselytizing until Rasputin changed his ways and became a playboy with drugs, alcohol, sex. Later on, Rasputin did stay away from sugary items including wine (most of the time) due to his hyperacidity. --“…the Siberian Toshkjav…” Toshkjav was a religious group in Siberia with rigid and strict beliefs about God, sex, life and faith. Not a popular or main stream group. --“…and had preached the Word of God since he was eleven…” Means that Rasputin began to proselytize (to convert or attempt to convert as a proselyte; recruit) at the age of eleven. --The difference in birth dates is easy to explain. The Julian Calendar is what the Russians follow. It is different from the calendar that North America follows and understands - the Gregorian Calendar. The Gregorian Calendar, the solar calendar now in general use, introduced by Gregory XIII in 1582 to correct an error in the Julian calendar by suppressing 10 days, making Oct 5 be called Oct 15, and providing that only centenary years divisible by 400 should be leap years; it was adopted by Great Britain and the American colonies in 1752. Hamster004 (talk) 10:05, 21 August 2008 (UTC)Hamster004Hamster004 (talk) 10:05, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

History Channel

My dad told me about a History Channel documentary that was very recently made, and it has lots of new information. If someone could catch that on TV and record it, or at least take notes, then this page could be updated with all of that information. -Chewbacca 07:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I believe the program you're referring to is based on the information that I added a while ago under "Recent Evidence". It has received quite a bit of coverage over the last couple of months - Steve5312, 4 February 2006

Assassination beliefs: Recent evidence

The article seems to have been infiltrated by some kind of elaborate spoof concerning one Richard Dewdney. Related articles such as Felix Yusupov could also do with a glance from someone who knows the subject. Can anyone sort out fact (if any) from fiction? Flapdragon 16:52, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd say we write a separate article on assasination listing all the current hypotheses and evidence and make it much more factual in the actual article. Cyberodin, 9 February 2006

Sounds like a good idea, since the article is becoming a bit weighed down by detail of the assassination. Meanwhile I've patched things up as best I can by restoring the pre-spoof names. Flapdragon 15:59, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I wrote the original piece under "Recent Evidence". I can assure you it's not a spoof, although I've no idea where the name Richard Dewdney came from. Who changed it? My info was sourced from an article in the BBC's History Today magazine from about four months ago, and I believe it was recently corroborated by a documentary on the History Channel. It's not supposed to be a factual account of what happened, because we will never have all the facts, but it IS supposed to be a viable evidence-based theory based on known facts as opposed to fable. Google "oswald rayner rasputin" to see masses of information about this theory, all from reputable sources. Steve5312 19 Feb 2006

No-one's doubting that. The spoof lay in the changing of the names of Oswald Rayner and others by some schookids as a wizard jape. (They missed one name, which in itself is a bit of a giveaway.) See the page history and the deletion vote on the page Richard Dewdney. As far as I can see I've restored that section to its former state. Flapdragon 03:04, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

That's ok, I just wanted to clarify. I don't think a separate article is a good idea though, because the reason most people want to learn about Rasputin is his assassination. Besides, where do you draw the line between "facts" and what I've written? Everything I wrote is based on fact, but it's still not conclusive. That's the point. We'll never know. I say we leave it as it is. I was going to suggest that I maybe abbreviate it a little, but if I do that it won't make sense. What do you think? 87.194.2.94 16:40, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the idea was more that a very detailed section on the theories surrounding his death might make the article unbalanced. Although it's true that's what most people think of first, his life was more than just the assassination. We wouldn't want to delete sound material on that basis, but there might be a a place for it in a more in-depth article on just the facts/theories/hypotheses surrounding the assassination. The main article could then summarise briefly and factually what is known while referring those interested in explring the matter in more depth to the assassination article -- a standard technique on Wikipedia after all. Flapdragon 02:28, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok fair enough. 87.194.2.94 09:26, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Khionia Guseva

Shouldn't something be added about Khionia Guseva, the prostitute who tried to murder Rasputin in 1914?

I ought to do that. I just finished reading about her and how what's his name put her up to it. He was a real monk who had tried to be nice to Rasputin, then got disgusted with his dissolute habits and dumb bragging (lying) about what he did with the Empress. He appealed to all women who'd been wronged by Rasputin and started a "let's get the bastard" underground. Guseva stabbed him a good one and he had to have surgery. Maria R. said he was never the same and had to take a lot of pain medication (opium probably). Maria also said if they fed her dad poison, it wasn't in the cakes. He had a lot of stomach trouble from the time Guseva got him, probably hyperacidity. He couldn't eat a lot of sugary stuff and was even leary of fruit. --Bluejay Young 08:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Rasputin's Eyes

I've read somewhere in a local book that Rasputin's eyes were very scary - or at least uncomfortable - to look at. His eyes used to have a thick black eyeliners all around, and a long look from him to the greatest man ever would render the latter trembling. I've read that property was one of the tools by which he reached such high social place. And after his death, it's claimed his eyes were extracted out of his body before his burial.

I hope somebody shed some light on this point. Haisook 23:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I can find nothing on this in any of the detailed accounts of Rasputin's murder that I've read but will keep looking. The one picture I've got of Rasputin's corpse, he's all there. --Bluejay Young 08:06, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the whole thing was the local author's imagination. Haisook 01:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I think you're right // vh16^ru talk 14:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that in some pictures he seems to have strabismus. The Amazing Turnip 16:43, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Here is a picture of his corpse, and a little bit of an explanation. It says at least something is missing, if not the eyes...

http://www.celebritymorgue.com/rasputin/

Well, I don't claim it's a reliable website, but it is certainly the best if you can stomach those pictures. My personal favorite. JaneDOA

Rasputin disambiguation

Why does searching for Rasputin take you to a disambiguation page? I'm sure 99.9% of people who type in "Rasputin" are trying to get to Grigori Rasputin. Should there not be a disambiguation link on the top of the Grigori Rasputin page? Just a suggestion. TuckerResearch 16:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with you about this. --Apyule 04:01, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Whomever took my suggestion above, bravo. I believe it is the right thing. TuckerResearch 20:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Editorializing

Rob 01:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)I draw your attention to the following:

"Another important factor was probably the Tsarina's German-Protestant origin: she was highly fascinated by her new Orthodox religion — which puts a great deal of faith in the healing power of prayer — but seems to have lacked some discernment regarding its practices."

The article makes it clear that the Russian Orthodox Church largely repudiates Rasputin, not only to this day, but also in his own lifetime. Rasputin does not reflect Orthodox beliefs, nor does he reflect Orthodox "practices." If this statement is supposed to refer to Rasputin, assuming that he reflects the Russian Orthodox Church, it is incorrect and tends to contradict the rest of the article. If, however, this statement in leveled strictly against the Russian Orthodox Church or the Tsarina's lack of discernment, not only is it an instance of editorializing, but it also irrelevent to the article.

The entire paragraph is problematic. The conclusion that the Tsarina believed that God spoke through Rasputin because of the close ties between the throne and the ROC is a non-sequitor, at least the lack of provided evidence makes it such.

unnecessary commentary

Rob 01:48, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

"Like most Orthodox Christians, Rasputin was brought up with the belief that the body is a sacred gift from God. Attaining divine grace through sin seems to have been one of the central secret doctrines that Rasputin preached to (and practised with) his inner circle of society ladies. The idea that one can attain grace through correction of sin is not unique. It is also understood that sin is an inescapable part of the human condition, and the responsibility of a believer is to be keenly aware of his sins and be willing to confess them, thereby attaining humility."

The structure of the first two sentences suggests that Orthodox Christians believe what Rasputin preached concerning the idea that one can attain grace by sinning. The third sentence, however, has nothing to do with the second sentence, since this is not what Rasputin was preaching. According to the second sentence, one receives grace by sinning. According to the third sentence, one attains grace by correcting sin.

At any rate, the commentary on the alleged Christian doctrine is irrelevent to the article.

New approach to Rasputin article

Artmann 01:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC) . It seems to me that the whole conception of this article is rather weak and obsolete. It looks like a description of a royal favourite's life at the court of a nineteen-century or earlier-period monarch. It doesn't take into account at all the pre-revolutionary situation in Russia at that moment. For instance, it doesn't throw a light on that frenzy company of discreditation of royal family lead by revolutionary forces of society (Bolsheviks not the least among them), who used Rasputin as a cosy target to attack the monarchy. On the other side, it doesn't reflect enough his influence on the spiritual life of Royal family as well as Russian spiritual life in general. E.g., it doesn't even mention two works written by Rasputin himself: " My life in Christ " and " My thoughts and meditations ", his amazing prophecies and evidences of spiritual power. It seems to me, that thereby we risk to deprive the following generations of people of right understanding of Rasputin's true role and the true role of destructive forces that finally brought Russia (and not only Russia) into the chains of Bolshevism. I would be very thankful to the persons who support such a conception or simly support a discussion on this topic. Thank you.

Ermm ok... so why don't you add the relevant information to the article then? 81.156.164.45 12:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Tsaritsa vs Tsarina

I noticed that in the article then it is spelt Tsaritsa, but everyone (including me) seems to use Tsarina. Comments? (this unsigned comment was added by Jlao04, 24 October 2006)

Tsaritsa is the right way to spell this word. // vh16^ru talk 14:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. "Tsaritsa" is decidedly unconventional, in English.

"Tsarina Alexandra" gets 19,400 Google hits
"Czarina Alexandra" gets 9400 Google hits
"Tsaritsa Alexandra" gets only 850 Google hits
"Tsarita Alexandra" gets only 408 Google hits
"Tzarina Alexandra" gets only 273 Google hits
"Tzaritsa Alexandra" gets only 9 Google hits

I'm used to spelling it "Czarina," but I guess I'm too old fashioned. "Tsarina" and "Czarina" are the only two widely used spellings, and "Tsarina" is clearly the "best" (most common/conventional) spelling. NCdave 11:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

George Still

I suppose that G. Still was not the first to describe Rasputin's life. I think we are to delete this doubtful sentence. Any comments? // vh16^ru talk 14:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Why the section on his name?

Two objections:

An article is suppose to convey information, not lament at length the lack of information.
How many biographical articles in Wikipedia contain a section on the origin of the subject's name? Why is this of note? Do their respective articles explore the origins of the family names of George W. Bush or Bill Clinton or Jacques Chirac or Desmond Tutu? This has nothing to do with the person himself.

—Largo Plazo 17:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Because so many, even some scholars, assume that his name comes from the word for licentious, this note is of interest. I favor leaving it--Peshkov 19:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that's begging the question. Of the surnames of all the famous people in the world, why have scholars picked his to inquire into and then fuss over its meaning? —Largo Plazo 21:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Backed out change 16:30, 10 February 2007 70.152.92.16

I just backed out this change. It looks well-intentioned but is wrong in a few ways. First, it uses HTTP-style <a href ...> links, where Wikipedia links are of the form [[Page name]]. Second, the links added were for relatively common English words - evidence, friend, school, death, lawyer, present - that do not seem to require links. Finally, the "tsar" article seems to indicate that the "tsar" spelling is preferred on Wikipedia. (Perhaps both forms are equally valid, but since the article on the subject uses the "ts" spelling, let's be consistent.)

Any questions, just ask here.

Jordan Brown 05:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

'Tsar' is also closer to Russian, so I think generally preferable. garik 11:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

This article has been severely vandalised, particularly the first few paragraphs. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.223.245.136 (talk • contribs) 20:51, March 6, 2007 (UTC).

Happens all the time. Some people don't have a life. Here's a canned response:

Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).

Jordan Brown 04:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Contradicts Khlysts

This article definitively states that the Rasputin was not a Khlyst, and that the Khlysts participated in group sex. The Khlysts article states that Rasputin was most likely a Khlyst, but they never had orgies. Jaysbro 16:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Resolution to the problem - I have added the following statement on the Khlyst article

"Grigori Rasputin was accused to have been a Khlyst by Sofia Ivanovna Tyutcheva, a governess of the Grand Duchesses of Russia, after being horrified that Rasputin was allowed access by the Tsar to the nursery of the Grand Duchesses, when the four girls were in their nightgowns. (See Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna of Russia)"

I hope this solved the problem.

Cheers 61.68.183.41 13:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Review for Version 0.7

Rasputin is clearly a major figure, but I'm hesitant about including the article about such a controversial figure when it needs some cleanup and better sourcing. I'd love to include the article, so I'll revisit the article in a couple of months. Could someone watching this article have a go at fixing things up a bit, so it can go on the DVD? Thanks, Walkerma 02:26, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Dimitri?

What is the source for Rasputin's brother being named Dimitri? The biography I've got (Colin Wilson's Rasputin and the Fall of the Romanovs) identifies him as Micheal. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 22:17, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Good grief, what a mess!

"...was a Russian mystic..."

So far so good, but it's all downhill from there.

"...who is perceived as having influenced the later days of the Russian Tsar Nicholas II, his wife the Tsaritsa Alexandra, and their only son the Tsarevich Alexei."

Weasel words! Surely, nobody doubts that Rasputin had influence, especially on Czarina Alexandra?

"Rasputin was known as a leader and a hero."

What ever happened to WP:NPOV??

"His reputation today does not include in rule of Russia before it was handed to Stalin."

I don't even know what that gibberish is supposed to mean! And since when was Russia "handed to" Stalin? And what does Stalin have to do with Rasputin, anyhow? Rasputin had been dead for a decade when Stalin seized power.

"Rasputin wanted a modest rule of character in the soviet states around him."

I don't even know what that gibberish is supposed to mean, either. But there were no "soviet states" around Russia when Rasputin was alive.

This article is a ridiculous mess! NCdave 11:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Spelling of his name

Grigory or Grigori? I have no idea, but both have been used within the article (which we certainly should avoid) and both are used throughout other articles. It would be nice to have consistency if possible. violet/riga (t) 08:32, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Both spellings are acceptable, although, of course, for consistency sake it's preferrable to choose one over the other. As "Grigory" is the one supported by WP:RUS (Wikipedia guideline to romanization of Russian), I'd suggest the article be moved accordingly.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 12:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Rasputin's political influence

Seemingly accurate information on this site talks about Rasputin's political influence over the royal family was greatly exaggerated due to Nicholas II indecisive leadership and the impending revolution. Most sources I've read say he had great political influence but the claim ends there, no proof, no sources

www.alexanderpalace.com/2006rasputin/index.html

--Drunkensaint 17:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that, but Grigori is used more widely in testbooks etc and it looks more 'russian' to the layman (which of course is not to back it up!) (90.192.201.122 (talk) 21:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC))

Contradictions about Autopsy Reports

One paragraph states that "In the autopsy, it was found that he had indeed been poisoned, and that the poison alone should have been enough to kill him."

Just a few paragraphs later: "According to the unpublished 1916 autopsy report by Professor Kossorotov, as well as subsequent reviews by Dr. Vladimir Zharov in 1993 and Professor Derrick Pounder in 2004/05, no active poison was found in Rasputin's stomach."

Anyone know which is the truth?

Peces 23:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I do not, but I will tell you this: it is a definite fact that there is a lot of controversy surrounding his death. We should change this section so the sentences or ideas don't sound definite, but rather, convery that they are different views on the story.----ASTRA!!!!!!

Assassination

In world history, we have been talking about Grigori, my teacher, who is a walking encyclopedia, explained his death, which is a bit different then the one in this article.

He said that they poisoned him, and Grigori, left. Then they went out and shot him 3 times, went inside, came back out, saw him walking off, they got metal bars, pushed him onto the river, then saw him getting up, went down, beat him, shot him twice, beat him some more and he finally died.

                                           Imanobody (talk) 00:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)Imanobody

The assassination section is a mess, three different sections, the first messy and the second and third apparently contradictory Alastairward (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

WWII "Prediction"

The section "The spirit of Grigori Yefimovich Rasputin" ends with this:

Moreover, after the twenty-five year term purportedly predicted by Rasputin, the Soviet Union was invaded by Nazi Germany (1941).

What exactly is that supposed to show? Rasputin's prediction, given directly above, was that:

for twenty-five years they [the Russian nobles] will not wash their hands from my blood. They will leave Russia. Brothers will kill brothers, and they will kill each other and hate each other, and for twenty-five years there will be no nobles in the country.

Unless the Nazi invasion is somehow taken to be a restoration of the Russian nobility, it has nothing to do with his prediction.

Of course much of what he predicted did come true, but it didn't last for 25 years; it was 75 years before the Soviets fell, and there are still no nobles in Russia today. Not to mention that, while I'm not sure Oswald Rayner of the British SIS counts as a "common assassin," he was certainly no boyar, so Rasputin's prediction says the Tsar's children should be ruling Russia today, and for hundreds of years to come....

Anyway, I'm going to remove the above-mentioned sentence. --76.203.74.244 (talk) 23:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Rasputin in Popular Culture

Would it be possible to include a section beyond The Boney M? I know Rasputin has been played by John Barrymore and Tom Baker played him in films Orville Eastland (talk) 00:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

British singer Jack Lucien is releasing his new single on June 2nd called Rasputin.Orville Eastland (talk) 16:12, 11 May 2008 (GMT)

The NEO-GEO fighting game World Heroes 2 has a character that is obviously based on Rasputin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UltraKev9 (talk • contribs) 23:06, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Strangulation of Yusupov

Rasputin could not have strangled Yusupov as stated because he died in Paris in 1967. M173627 (talk) 18:57, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

However the word strangling does not always imply that it is fatal - read the article on strangling. Dirac66 (talk) 03:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Citing the Bible

Referring to the section on controvesy about Rasputin's religious behaviour, is it really necessary to add a citation for the Bible when "Romans 6:1" is already included? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackpottle (talk • contribs) 23:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

"Spirit of Rasputin ... "

This seems very biased. It assumes there is such a thing as a spirit, firstly, then that was some sort of prophet. On and on. Anyone want to look into this? Imaslee pviking ( talk ) 03:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

What sticks out to me is the non-verifiability more so than bias, but I can see your point.. There are no sources whatsoever for any of this, and it looks like original research. I think the section could use a {{Original research}} or a {{Refimprove}} tag, probably in place of the {{NPOV}}, and after that it will need some rewording. WDavis1911 (talk) 03:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

DUDE WAS A PEASANT WHO RAPED A NUN AND WHOSE DICK WAS PRESERVED AND ON DISPLAY. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sk8erbeb (talk • contribs) 23:51, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Healing Powers

My father told me an account of Rasputins healing powers were shown. A man was dying, you know the whole "fever,pain,and frothing of the mouth" thing. No one could help him so a maid went to request Rasputin. Rasputin, who was drunk at the time, was upset yet also obliged. He asked how many children the man had to see if he was worth saving ( I mean, come on would you save a man if he was a pig?). Turns out the man had 9 children, Rasputin was ready. He called for a bucket of water and set to work. He put one hand on the mans head and one in the bucket the man slowly started to look better and the water in the bucket started to boil. Once the ordeal was over the man was limp on the bed. Rasputin got up and said "He will live to feed his 9 children." And then he left. I'm not sure this is true but it does make a good story.--Vendettalives (talk) 18:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)vendettalives

How is his name pronounced?

How is the name "Rasputin" pronounced? Which syllable is stressed? Someone please add pronunciation guide. SpectrumDT (talk) 16:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

The name Rasputin is pronounced just as it is written. It would depend if you speak High (Nobility or the educated class) or Low Russian (Peasant or the uneducated class). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.153.172.247 (talk) 08:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's a very helpful response. The second syllable is stressed. I'm hopeless with IPA, but in normal-write it's roughly "ras-POO-tin". The OO is a short sound, as in "look", not the long sound as in "soon". The t is softened, as if you're saying "t-yin" (sort of). -- JackofOz (talk) 08:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Nearly killed on the same day as the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria

On the very same day as the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in Sarajevo, June 28, 1914, Rasputin was in his native village, Pokrovskoye, where a former-lover, whom Rasputin did not recognize due to her disfigurement from syphilis, attacked him with a knife and pretty much cut him in half. He barely survived the attack and remained in intense pain for the rest of his life. It was after this attack that you were start to have the Rasputin of legend, the one is heavy drinker and with a constant flow of women.

I saw this on the A&E Biography episode on Rasputin and think if someone has a accredited source for it, really needs to be add since it really help to explain this character and actions as well as debunking the many myths surrounding him. Don't really understand how come this important incident in his life is so often overlooked and goes unmentioned. Boris3883 (talk) 22:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Gregory to Grigori

Under his title it stated "Father Gregory". I have change that to "Father Grigori". If you have any disputes make them here before changings or rolling back my edit. --APShinobi^{My Contribs} 13:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

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