Talk:Die (manufacturing)/Archive 1

Untitled

A technically inclined fan should use this to expand this page, I thing. diecasting.org[link formated by Jerzy~t 14:54, 19 May 2005 (UTC)]

Layout

To add — blanking, shearing, forming, coining, embossing, drawing, the list goes on.

They probably should be named in the format [[blanking (manufacturing)]] due to there generic nature (see drawing — Graibeard 01:45, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The problem is they are all specific die processes and die types. It would seem they should be covered under this article since they die specific.—Preceding unsigned comment added by I already forgot (talk • contribs) 06:01, 8 June 2006

I think we are actually in agreeance, ie :- they are specific processes and thus need to be split from the generic term. A better example on my part would have been drawing (manufacturing) (the specific) as compared to drawing (the generic). Covering each term under the umbrella of this article, as you've done, is correct but when the content deserves a subject page of it's own then we need to name it appropriately, it helps with disambiguation etc. It may be obvious now, but earlier on it was easy to find articles full of links that required disambig'g, the articles only made sense if you already understood the subject. Following the wikilinks in an article on dies could leave the reader puzzling why a metalworking page led to an article on art [[drawing]], to name just one possible link.

The wikiproject was started in an attempt to better organize the existing material. To rename, merge or just index the existing material, so that it could all be found easily, no matter which country, language, dialect, or planet you visited from ;-) — Graibeard ^(talk) 10:06, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand now and agree. I already forgot 07:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

die making, coin die and Coining (machining) are all coining related pages, decisions need making regarding reclaiming pages and merges — Graibeard 13:47, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

I'm pretty sure threadcutting is primarily a cutting process and not significantly a molding one as the lead implies. Also, some jig-saw puzzles, presumably the better quality, market themselves as "die-cut".
And is it clear that the sense intended in "tool and die makers" is not still broader?
--Jerzy~t 14:54, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Add, to the jig-saw puzzles, other paper-based items: cut-out figures and items meant to hang from a doorknob, and probably mass-produced Chinese paper art.
--Jerzy•t 15:58, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Most metal parts with high yearly production are produced on a progressive die which can include a wide variety of operations such as cutting,forming,coining,shaving and even tapping. The end result is completely finished part. Jim Lambert July 21,2005

Major Re-write

Expanded on the subject and deleted some irrelevant info to manufacturing dies.

• Removed bad link
• Added die components
• Added die operations
• Added example of products created by dies
• Added references to give more credibility to the article
• Removed information on fiber optics as it is unrelated to manufacturing dies and more related to products manufactured by dies. Maybe add to the new list of products created by dies.
• Removed thread cutting die info. This type of die is related to machinist cutting tools.
• Removed mold maker as a die maker. Though mold makers are capable of producing dies, a mold maker is a specific maker of molds and a tool and die maker is a specific maker of dies
  
  Looking to expand more on the article.I already forgot 07:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Looking to possibly change the title to die (forming) and creating a separate die (threading) article as die (manufacturing) is ambiguous. Or split the article into two groups such as forming and threading and link to an expanded article for each. One problem is die (threading) is used in manufacturing and non manufacturing enviroments (mechanics, plumbers, hobbist, etc.) as where die (forming) is only used in the manufacturing industry. I'll try and hold off on any changes for now. I already forgot 18:48, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Rather than change the name of this page, retain it as a disambiguation for all the manufacturing die references that are around. The material you're dealing with can then be split off to a new page. [[die (forming)]] is a possibility, my vote would tend towards press something or other - such as [[press tools]], [[press tooling]] — Graibeard ^(talk) 10:06, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree on using [[press tools]] or [[press tooling]] since "press tooling" is ambiguous. Clamping and other setup tools used on presses can be referred to as press tooling as well.I already forgot 07:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

This is my opinion (most likely temporarily :)) on the category layout:

technology->Manufacturing->Metalworking->Forming->die(forming)->die(blanking)

technology->Manufacturing->Metalworking->Machining->Cutting tools->threading->die(threading)

technology->Manufacturing->Metalworking->Casting->die(casting)

technology->Manufacturing->Metalworking->Forging->die(forging)

technology->Manufacturing->Materials->Molding->Mold(injection)

technology->Manufacturing->Machinery->Press->Metalworking->forming->press(die)

technology->Manufacturing->Machinery->Press->Materials->Molding->press(injection molds)

????I already forgot 09:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Reverted to an earlier version. The article became too specific as the article covers both threading and forming dies. Also, using the term "mold" to describe the die forming process creates ambiguity between die forming and molding. Though the two may contain similar basic components (springs, screws, backing plates,etc.), the design and setup between the two are completely different. An untrained die maker to the molding process could not successfully build a mold. For example, tool and die makers are not trained to the details of a sprue.I already forgot 00:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, although we need to be flexible. To my thinking, small shop tool and die makers will have the versatility (through experience) to be able to cover both fields adequately, maybe not to the standards of Boeing but certainly enough to allow a small shop to perform what it does best, and adapt quickly. My experience in Australia does not separate the fields quite as much as you appear to describe. The difference is there but manufacturing dies will cover press tools (sheet metal) as well as molds (plastic injection).

Splitting the page material off (as described above) may solve your dilemma? — Graibeard ^(talk) 10:06, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately I have to disagree again. Though toolmakers in small shops(jobshop in the USA) wear many hats, molds and dies are completely different. I would equate comparing a mold to a die as comparing a lathe to a mill. Both have similar parts(spindle, beds, ways, handles), and use similar cutting tools (drills, reamers, boring bars), but they are considered completely different types of manufacturing tools. The same applies to dies and molds. They both use tool steel, are mounted in a press (completely different types), and look similar to the untrained eye, but they are considered two completely different tools. For example: When building an injection mold, a mold maker is concerned with parting lines, shrinkage, draft angles, shutoffs, runners, glass content, and is also concerned about which side will have ejector pins, and which side will be the hot half. A tool and die maker never has those concerns and more often than not, doesn't know anything about them. When building a die, a tool and die maker is concerned with die clearance, punch and die alignment, useful life, die thickness (for cracking) stripper spring pressure, and stop blocks. A mold maker has no need for those build concerns. Also, I have found that technical articles classify dies under the metals(working) category and molds under materials(working).

Anyway, this is a very interesting discussion that I hope continues.I already forgot 07:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

CPU Die

The article CPU Die leads here, but there is no information whatsoever about it...--Eddie 23:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

That's because we, here in the metalworking project, have no idea how CPU dies work! Goats are sacrificed, and CPUs come out. It should probably be in it's own seperate article, mabye Die (electronics) and added to the disambig page. - Toastydeath 09:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The die is cast

The link to the phrase "the die is cast" is apparently not related to dies as in manufacturing, but a die as in the singular of dice, so I removed the link. The talk page for the phrase explains it best, I think.

--James Hales 14:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

power press picture -- clarification?

The picture of the power press is said to be showing a bending operation. The die is creating a bent shape, but the point is at the bottom and the v is at the top, unlike in the typical explanation of bending operations. The press looks more heavy-duty than a press brake. Either this is not doing bending, or shows several differences from the typical that perhaps need explanation. Wilhkar (talk) 23:28, 15 February 2010 (UTC)wilhkar

Quite right, definitely not bending. Perhaps coining (metalworking)? Wizard191 (talk) 16:27, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Die cutting (web)

A sentence or two discussing the relationship (or not) to die cutting (web) might be appropriate, to help people understand how the use of the word in that context relates to what is being treated here. Jheald (talk) 13:31, 26 January 2012 (UTC)