Talk:Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Who is writing this?

Who is writing this? It's utter, total crap. It needs some serious restructuring and rewriting to bring it up to Wikipedia standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.91.16.34 (talk) 11:50, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Statement re: US and Israel

I have added the source (as if it was not obvious to the tag-teaming reverts what the source was. Geez, it was given in edit summaries several times). This little game can now stop, and if there are policy-based arguments for removal of this text, editors wanting it removed need to make them here. All Rows4 (talk) 22:35, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Lead first para

"It is believed that he has been proclaimed by his followers to be a Caliph.[12]" What kind of craziness is this? Quite apart from the fact that the citation appended makes no mention of it. ~ P-123 (talk) 11:02, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

The way he was chosen was the way the first caliph, Abu Bakr, was chosen, by the pledge of allegiance by Ahl al hal wal 'aqd (أهل الحل والعقد). The Ahl al hal wal 'aqd in this case, the people of influence and authority, were the shura council of the Islamic State.

"If a caliph is given the pledge of allegiance by Ahl al hal wal 'aqd (أهل الحل والعقد), which signifies the people of authority and influence. These are the people whom the public listens to, and who represent the public. If they give the pledge of allegiance (Bay'ah) to any one person, he has been enacted the caliph." (Quoted from the wiki page on 'caliphate')

Family/Wives

Should Kayla Mueller be included as a wife? Before sexually assaulting her, al-Baghdadi "married" her according to numerous sources. ;Burntham113 (talk) 23:13, 15 August 2015 (UTC) No Legacypac (talk) 06:00, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

lede

Why isn't Kayla Mueller's name and wiki page linked in the lede paragraph? " The United States has also accused al-Baghdadi of kidnapping, enslaving, and repeatedly raping an American citizen who was later killed" should read " The United States has also accused al-Baghdadi of kidnapping, enslaving, and repeatedly raping American Kayla Mueller, who was later killed" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.168.151.168 (talk) 02:25, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

If everyone that ISIS killed was in the lede, this article would be unreadable. Kortoso (talk) 21:17, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

NPOV and incorrect/inaccurate edit under 'suspected location'

The editor who has edited this section breaches NPOV by insinuating that Baghdadi hides among civilians, an untrue allegation. the US coalition has killed many civilians and they would certainly do kill civilians again to get him. And tt is well known that he is not in Raqqah but that he moves about constantly, never in one place. section needs to be removed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.152.21 (talk) 17:09, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Qurayshi?

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/markaz/posts/2015/09/10-isis-baghdadi-family-tree-mccants "Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of the Islamic State and self-proclaimed caliph, claims to be a descendant of Muhammad. That's not surprising since most Sunni Muslims believe only a descendant from Muhammad's tribe can be caliph. What makes Baghdadi's lineage interesting is that he claims to descend from Muhammad through ten of the twelve Shiite imams. That's an unusual and sadly ironic genealogy for a man hellbent on eradicating the Shiites." Kortoso (talk) 21:20, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

yes, he is Qurayshi it is well known that his tribe, the al-Bu Badri from Samarra, is descended from Quraysh you can find this fact on the wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_tribes_in_Iraq — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.152.21 (talk) 17:05, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

So he is a Shiite? why cover this up?
Being an (alleged) descendent from Hussein doesn't make you a Shiite. Gazkthul (talk) 20:23, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

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DOB?

The sources don't have his date of birth just year, is this correct? Omnipedia (talk) 18:54, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm only seeing the year referenced in the cited source. Additionally, the other sources I'm seeing only mentioned 1971. Should month and day be removed until a source is found? BahamaLlama8 (talk) 20:33, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Info-box

Why was the info-box changed without consensus? --Donenne (talk) 06:51, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

picture

I think the main picture should be the one at Mosul mosque because that's what he's well known for. It is also more recent, and it is at the time when he was the most famous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nnnu (talk • contribs) 21:25, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I agree. ~ P-123 (talk) 21:57, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
Although the picture may be more well known, the current one is in the public domain and a lot easier to use. BahamaLlama8 (talk) 20:20, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
it is not even clear that the guy in the Mosul mosque was him - could have been an actor or double according to some sources I read. Legacypac (talk) 00:30, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Dead?

He appears to have been killed in an air strike, multiple sources, including the PKK. I've updated part of it. Deathlibrarian (talk) 13:59, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Note that these reports haven't been confirmed by outside sources. FallingGravity (talk) 14:38, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
He died... again. :D Thoros of Myr will resurrect him. --Norden1990 (talk) 14:45, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
  • US military officials are "skeptical." Until we have more reliable confirmation I'm taking off the recent deaths tag. -208.47.35.166 (talk) 17:35, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Agree His death is not yet confirmed by the United States or White house and further there have been several reports earlier of his death which found to be wrong.We should remove the death tags.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:42, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
We don't need the White House or anyone in the US to confirm his death; we need reliable sources to do so. As far as I can tell, we have that. -- Irn (talk) 19:00, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

His death has been confirmed by ISIL. Isn't that enough? DrKilleMoff (talk) 20:01, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Actually it hasn't. A photoshopped image went around Twitter which was picked up by some of the more disreputable media outlets around the world. You will notice that even now there is nothing from the BBC, New York Times etc. Gazkthul (talk) 21:21, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Good call. We need better sources on this. -- Irn (talk) 22:33, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Info-box is for info which is certain, at present this isn't even probable, simply possible. Main text outlines this clearly. At present 'dead' does not belong in the article/info-box.Pincrete (talk) 10:31, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

No 1 knows maybe he still alive like Ginger Beard they tried to kill him but they failed. --Marik-modder (talk) 14:32, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

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list of speeches

seems obvious to me that a list of all the speeches released by baghdadi is good, solid content that has a place on his wikipedia page two editors reverted my reliably sourced list of speeches that took me a while to put up and said discuss on talk page

so maybe youd like to justify yourselves? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.144.10 (talk) 18:57, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Many notable figures, especially political leaders, give lots of speeches. Per WP:INDISCRIMINATE, I see no reason to include this information. If (a) certain speech(es) were to receive special attention, then we could revisit it, but I don't see how a list of speeches adds anything to the article. -- Irn (talk) 19:02, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
the speeches of Baghdadi however, are relatively few in number and constitute the only existing record of his views (as opposed to other political leaders which make many speeches, not all of them recorded, and many that would not be notable)
for this very reason it is the case that ALL his speeches receive special attention and are mentioned in world media and pored over by experts
you are falsely applying this wiki rule 'indiscriminate' which is not relevant here
a list of his speeches is a necessary addition to this article, and this is quite incontrovertible
there is no justification in either the wiki rules or logic for not adding this information — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.144.10 (talk) 19:32, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
If they are important because they give insight into his views, perhaps they could be used as sources for his views, if that's necessary. Or if the speech received sufficient attention/reaction, it could be included in the text, citing the relevant reliable sources.
However, I don't see how listing the names and dates of his speeches adds to the article. -- Irn (talk) 21:09, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

you deliberately ignored what i said, which is: ""ALL"" THE SPEECHES ARE ""NOTABLE"" AND MENTIONED IN WORLD MEDIA every single one got "sufficient attention/reactions" we can't list the entire contents obviously, so we have to make do with a list — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.144.10 (talk) 11:48, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

I repeat myself: if that's the case, then perhaps that information can be integrated into the text, citing the relevant reliable sources. However, I don't see how listing the names and dates of his speeches adds to the article. In case this isn't clear - I'm not opposed to including this information in the text of the article if it is as you claim, but not as a list. -- Irn (talk) 15:07, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

i appreciate your conciliatory response, but I still think a list is the best format otherwise in the text of the page you will have to mention all the speeches and then provide a little summary of what they said, which will end up with the article being too long i really think just a list mentioning their names and the dates they were released is sufficient information about the speeches, and that information is best provided in a list — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.144.10 (talk) 21:31, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Summary of improvements

Because I made some big changes I thought I should summarise here

  • Removed a massive chunk of text about Saja al-Dulaimi who experts have now established is not his wife, she doesn't have any relevance on this page
  • Deleted all 'reports of death'. This massive chunk of text is irrelevant to this page. Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a newspaper policy applies here, this is not the place to list every single crackpot claim about him dying
  • Deleting most of the text referencing bombings and military operations, this information belongs on the individual pages for the groups, Al-Qaida in Iraq, Islamic State of Iraq and the ISIL page
  • Fluff and junk about 'sectarianism and theocracy' and 'criticism of caliphate'. These belong in their respective pages, this a biography of an individual, not a religious book about whether he is a legitimate Islamic caliph or whether he is a theocrat

So those four issues account for the text that has been removed. In its place is a lovely, streamlined biography that incorporates the key facts and historical moments from his life — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smith1122 (talk • contribs) 06:45, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 16 November 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved as consensus to keep the article at it's current name has been established. (non-admin closure) — Music1201 talk 16:03, 23 November 2016 (UTC)


Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi → Ibrahim al-Badri – This is his birth name, and there is no evidence he had legally changed his name. 99.8.13.120 (talk) 02:15, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
  • @Zzuuzz and Oshwah: (pinging some admins who edited the article recently) The IP user appears to have created an account to move the page against consensus. FallingGravity 03:20, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Moreover, the username User:82Ibrahim102 should be indef blocked for offence (given the editor's interest, he's identifying with the ISIS leader) and move vandalism. Pinging admins online now @BrownHairedGirl: @Gilliam: Ribbet32 (talk) 06:15, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Thank you zzuzz for fixing the rest of the move.
    BrownHairedGirl should note her statement about NPOV is complete and utter bilge. If a user registered the name User:I Am Donald Trump, he would be blocked instantly for using the name of a notable living person. It that user miraculously survived long enough to move Donald Trump to Emperor Donald I of America, his fate would be that much more sealed! NPOV wouldn't factor into that one way or the other. Ribbet32 (talk) 23:22, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

First sentences

Hi,

why isn't there his place he was born mentioned as usual?! He was born in Iraq, Samara I think it was, as you can read in the Infobox... I know it (and I read Wiki already for a very long time) that always, if known, also the place of birth/death is mentioned too...

Greetings Kilon22 (talk) 20:03, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

It is mentioned in the section called background. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 20:11, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Okay thanks you. I will go and check this... just trying to help with my very limited English with fixing some "small errors" like type errors, wrong singular or plural and such things... and of course the in most cases more up to date statistic pages! Greetings from Europe, Germany, Berlin! Kilon22 (talk) 14:24, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
I see... background, that was what I was meaning... why in the background and not as usual in the first sentence together with the date of birth (and in some cases date and place of death). But okay, if it is only worth to mention it in the background... I prefer reading websites about Persons in German if there is one page available. Sometimes there is not, but at least I remember it that the Place is always in the first text line and in the first passage, date of birth/death and both places... However. Question "solved" and again thanks! Kilon22 (talk) 14:28, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Fled german wife Diane Kruger a possible hoax?

This section:

  • In April 2015, multiple media reports emerged claiming that Baghdadi had married a German teenager on 31 March.[95] On 28 February 2016, Iraqi media reported that she had left ISIL and had fled Iraq along with two other women. Her name was identified as Diane Kruger.[96]

Seems like a likely hoax. All reports that she had fled are based on the same source (the JPost article), and the earlier report that he had married 'a German girl' are explicitly saying it's unconfirmed and based on speculation from unnamed sources. After she fled there has been not a single mention of her in any news source I can find, the German government has never confirmed her existence, and the name Diane Kruger (in relation to Syria, not the actress) is also found nowhere except in the JPost article and others in late february 2016 citing the JPost article. While one would suspect the wife of Baghdadi (and leader of the women's department) fleeing would be a bigger story.

I would recommend deleting this part of the article. 92.109.153.177 (talk) 10:13, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

92.109.153.177, first, let me strongly encourage you to edit from an established wiki-ID, so that other contributors can engage in a dialogue with you...

I think your comment above exposes a misunderstanding of wikipedia policy, particularly WP:HOAX.

We are not supposed to set ourselves up as hoax-busters. WP:VERIFY says we should aim for "verifiability, not truth". That is a good thing. Truth is highly subjective. It is verifiable that a woman named "Diane Kruger" was reported to have married al-Bagdadi, held a senior position in the Women's Auxiliary to the Secret Police, and to have fled. If there are other sources that claimed The Mirror, the Jerusalem Post, were perpetrating a hoax, or were innocently repeating a hoax, that could be added here.

But, so long as we consider these papers reliable sources, covering their coverage of this woman is policy compliant, while removal of that content, over your personal doubts, would not be policy compliant. Geo Swan (talk) 19:55, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Question of Wikipedia's standards when it comes to politic?!

This initial phrase: "...is the leader[9][10][11] of the Sunni militant terrorist organisation known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Syria" This phrase shows very unbiased statement! "sarcasm". Terrorism is a shape of political accusation which can be used by a country or group to label another country/group if the latter is not following the order of the first. So I wonder does this article proves that Wikipedia is part of the American/western propaganda and their views when it comes to politics and foreign policy?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.91.169.150 (talk) 18:33, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware Wikipedia is supposed to represent the general "consensus" and isil has is a terrorist organization according to most countries in the world, including Russia and China Airtwit (talk) 17:26, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
  • 2.91.169.150 -- first, let me encourage you to create a wiki-id, so other contributors can discuss the concerns you raise.

    With regard to this concern -- no offense, but I can't be sure I understand the point you are trying to make. Are you objecting to Daesh being described as a terrorist organization? If so would you object if "terrorist" was struck from that first sentence, and a nearby sentence said something like, "Daesh's use of secret police, brutal punishments, like beheading, slavery, and a lack of courts that provide fair trials, have caused the group to be widely condemned as a terrorist organization..." Geo Swan (talk) 20:07, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

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Airstrike did not kill Kayla Mueller

This edit and a previous one inserted terrorist propaganda into the page. [3] As Kayla Mueller more fully lays out, it is very unlikely any airstrike killed Mueller. ISIL said she was left unguarded (unlikely), that a Jordanian jet did it (how can they identify that from the ground) and failed to note this was the 3rd time the building was bombed. Jordan and the USA rejected the ISIL claim completely. The "Us" in my edit summary should have been US as in USA. Legacypac (talk) 03:15, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

First sentence

"Sunni Salafi jihadist militant jihadist organisation" is a classic case of WP:SEAOFBLUE, don't you think? feminist 16:13, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2017

Change "| term_end2=28 Mfy 2017" to "| term_end2=28 May 2017". 103.1.70.242 (talk) 14:55, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

  • NOT DONE. The subject has not been confirmed dead by reliable sources. He gets reported killed every few weeks so no rush to change the page. Legacypac (talk) 00:41, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
Note: Closing the request. regards, DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 05:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

not confirmed dead

He is still not confirmed dead. [4]. US and Iraqi officials "skeptical". Kurds can't confirm. Russia thinks they might have killed him. SOHR says they have info but no details. All pretty loosy goosy for Wikipedia to declare someone dead based on these reports. Legacypac (talk) 15:27, 11 July 2017 (UTC)


ISIL has confirmed he is dead though. Something they have never done before. This time there are stronger proofs than others. And the thing about US and Iraqi offials skeptical that was last time he was declared dead, in June. DrKilleMoff (talk) 16:03, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

ISIL has not confirmed anything. An Iraqi television said they got the news from ISIL leaders, but there was not any official confirmation from ISIS. When Jihadi John died ISIS published a long obituary on their journal, same for Adnani and Shishani. No obituary has been published to commemorate al Baghdadi and vthe Iraq TV which announced these announced the same things in 2016. Definitely too early to consider him done. --Folengo (talk) 16:08, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

No that was an hour ago. I predict he will be reported killed or injured in August too. Legacypac (talk) 16:12, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Possible Death?

A report by the Newspaper the Daily Mirror reports that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was killed in an Airstrike in Syria on Saturday 10th June 2017.[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ateam3112 (talk • contribs) 22:13, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

According to reports, al-Bagdadi has been killed or injured numerous times. I want to see a body and DNA test results and this reported worldwide before we put anything suggesting he is actually dead. When he is really truly dead it will be on every channel and on every front page. Legacypac (talk) 08:32, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Agreed, he seems to have 'died' multiple times over the course of his life. We need to wait on a more reliable source to confirm that he is in fact dead.--SamHolt6 (talk) 15:01, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Legacypac, can you provide your address, phone number, maybe? It's good to know that this page has some good old original research going on. BTW, did you see maybe DNA and body of Osama bin Laden? Because I'm pretty sure it was not made publicly available? I mean... it COULD have been a lie, theoretically. At least by your standards. Now... if your standard is "it's going to be on every front page, I am not sure you have really been following media war going on around the world right now. Nobody is reporting things that look good for the "other" side. So I can't help but to think that your view on what is true and what isn't is a bit naive. 85.232.207.146 (talk) 16:10, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

I doubt I'm naive. Photos of OBL dead body were published widely and the US said they confirmed DNA. No one seriously disputes bin Laden was killed by special forces in a raid in Pakistan. The recent claims by Russia and now Iran are no more credible than a Trump tweet. Let's report the claims but hold off declaring him dead until there is much stronger proof. At this point it looks like Russian and/or Iran propoganda like the previous Iraq and Syrian government claims. Legacypac (talk) 20:10, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-leader-killed-strike-syria-10602577

Officials from the US, Iranian, and Russian governments are confirming that he has been killed. SOHR has also "confirmed evidence". Cheef117 (talk) 13:42, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Um not according to the reports I'm finding published in the last hour. Sure would be nice to have a date and place of this alleged killing too. Legacypac (talk) 15:54, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Hey you cunts, this is being reported in Syria. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.174.24.223 (talk) 03:41, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 July 2017

Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page).http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN19W19Kref>

Baghdadi was killed in a Russian airstrike on May 28, 2017 in Northern Syria, South of the group's stronghold in Raqqa. Wilkmaster (talk) 00:44, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 00:57, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
To cite your reference, only one <ref></ref> tag is needed. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 00:59, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Sputnik (news agency) is not a reliabke source. See our own page on them. Legacypac (talk) 01:03, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Raqqa is almost completely liberated and no sign of Baghdadi. at what point do we say he got took out by a Russian airstrike? Can we put "28 July 1971- Unknown" since there is a chance he might be dead and a slim chance he might still be alive?--Fruitloop11 (talk) 04:20, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
If you follow the war you would know most ISIL leaders fled south from Raqqa leaving low level fighters to defend the city. There is a whole lot of desert to hid in and Osama bin Laden survived for years in a fairly major city. Legacypac (talk) 04:54, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
Both ISIS. (http://theduran.com/breaking-isis-confirms-leader-baghdadi-dead/)(www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/628794/ISIS-al-Baghdadi-Iraq-US-Daesh-terrorism-Russia-Middle-East-Nineveh/amp) and SOHR (https://mobile.twitter.com/syriahr/status/884741013549527040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-9976299522673127090.ampproject.net%2F1499807487098%2Fframe.html) I mean I there will be people who doubt it. But there are still some people who believe Bin Laden wasn't killed since no picture of the body was posted.--Fruitloop11 (talk) 14:57, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
Now even general Lt. Gen. Stephen Townsend believes he is dead. ( http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/11/is-isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-alive-240409 )--Fruitloop11 (talk) 18:04, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
That's not what the article says. "Army Lt. Gen. Stephen Townsend didn't go so far as to say that he believes Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is dead, but he did acknowledge in a briefing with Pentagon reporters that he has not seen evidence that he is still around." FallingGravity 02:20, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
Well the article also says it's "the furthest U.S. officials have gone in the wake of repeated reports that the terrorist leader has been taken out." So this is different from previous reports.--Fruitloop11 (talk) 20:10, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

The problem is Bagdadi does not have press conferences or make media appearances which would confirm his dead or alive status. Mullah Omar died two years before he was confirmed dead, and he continued issuing statements and doing stuff while dead. Osama bin Laden was speculated to be dead a numbee of times, including in Tora Bora, while he was actually quietly alive. If the US or Syria or Iraq etc know definitively where Baghdadi was he would shortly be no more, so it makes sense for the US to say they can't confirm his status. Several months ago the US said Bagdadi was unable to direct his forces effectively. One explanation of that statement is that communication intercepts no longer reference orders from Bagdadi as often. IF there are fewer orders being intercepted it might be because he is dead, or maybe he is in hiding. At this point all we have is rumor and speculation which is not enough to declare someone dead. We just report that X reported he was killed here, and Y reported he was injured there as the reports come in. I've never seen anyone reported to have been killed or injured on so many dates innso many places. It's pretty weird actually. Legacypac (talk) 05:39, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

ISIS confirms his death

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201707111055429513-daesh-leader-baghdadi-confirmed-dead/ AHC300 (talk) 16:02, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

So what. Neither ISIL or Sputnik (a propoganda arm of the Russians) is particularly Reliable. Legacypac (talk) 16:11, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

In this case they are reliable. They have no reason to lie about this. Earlier on they have always denied reports of Baghdadis death, but in this case they confirm it. That says alot. DrKilleMoff (talk) 16:14, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Sputnik has been claiming russia killed him in June. It's likely Russian propoganda to make Russia look more effective in Syria while the US backed forces are taking actual ground from ISIL. Legacypac (talk) 16:21, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
The Syrian government and its allies have actually taken more ground from Daesh than YPG and its allies this year.Deathmare (talk) 10:39, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

No confirmations here [5]. US Spokesperson to speak soon. Legacypac (talk) 16:24, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Ok, so you don't like Russia but that's not relevant in this case. I guess in your world the Syrian Observatory is allied with Russia as well. DrKilleMoff (talk) 16:43, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Not having faith in a known propoganda outlet for a government that routinely speads false info is a much more nuanced position than "don't like". SOHR is generally a reliable source, but they clearly said they don't have details. They did not even say if it was the Russians who allegedly did the killing - not the first time different claims overlapped each other. They only confirmed they got information without naming the source and they specifically say they don't know where ir when. That's very weak evidence.
What is not propaganda in your eyes then? CNN? Fox News? A lot of people would say that American and other Western news outlets are unreliable as well. If we're gonna cherry pick sources then Osama Bin Laden might still be alive. Beatitudinem (talk) 20:50, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
As for rumors of ISIL confirming.... If Bagdadi is trying to hid deeper undercover now, ISIL might say he is dead so everyone stops searching for him. Legacypac (talk) 16:56, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Quit trying to make him into a D.B. Cooper type figure. I think most users agree there is enough info to add his death date to the article. We might not have a picture of his body but then again we still don't have one of Bin Laden either.--2601:3C5:8200:B79:2D36:8275:B1CF:6FEE (talk) 17:47, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
Stop it. The day al-Baghdadi will be dead for real it will be confirmed by ISIL, USA and Russia, all together. This time it was only announced by an Iranian TV with no proofs at all and there was a huge spreading of what may be a hoax. Don't trust Iranian/Syrian sources, they said he is dead at least 200 times in the last three years. BTW, ISIL has NOT proclaimed a successor and has NOT made any announcement, which should confirm al Baghdadi is NOT dead, at list not offically dead. --Folengo (talk) 10:04, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Muqtada al-Sadr is not a warlord, as incorrectly stated in this article.

In the "As leader of the Islamic State of Iraq" subsection of the Islamic cleric section of the article, there is an adjective placement wrongly labelling Muqtada al-Sadr as a warlord in the penultimate paragraph of the section with the opening date of "22 December 2011": 

* Please change this: "...referring to the Mahdi Army of Shia warlord Muqtada al-Sadr."
* to this: "referring to the Mahdi Army of Muqtada al-Sadr."

The sentence must remove "warlord" in order to maintain neutrality and accuracy. He is a cleric yes, has been fiery at times, yes, but never a warlord. Please remove this term from the sentence as it is clearly someone's opinion, rather than based on anything factual. — 73.85.204.177 (talk) 23:18, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Done jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 00:45, 3 September 2017 (UTC)


Warlord; noun; 'a military commander, especially an aggressive regional commander with individual autonomy.'

This is exactly what he is. By saying he is a cleric you are being biased and quite naive to the situation. He doesn't just preach the Islamic religion like an actual cleric would. He is the military commander of a vicious group/army. That is not biased that is factual.

Tribes.

Something wrong here. The source https://www.thecairoreview.com/essays/a-portrait-of-caliph-ibrahim/ says that the "Bobadri" tribe includes the Quraish. However, the Al-Bu_Badri_tribe page says that this tribe wat founded only like 300 years ago. --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii 10:14, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

On that article the unsourced lineage says that they descend from the Prophet Muhammad, who is from Quraish. Therefore they could be a subgroup of them. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 11:05, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

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linking of the word "militant" in the lead

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:23h112e/sandbox#Why_Sea_of_Blue_is_not_useful_or_true 23h112e (talk) 17:49, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

detail :

link

revert

23h112e (talk) 17:50, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

@Deacon Vorbis:

@Deacon Vorbis: Hello Deacon, I am an imbecile, an imbecile, you know why Deacon don't you, because when I return to your indication of reality here at MOS:OVERLINK my mind simply fuses by the light of your brilliance and fails to scroll to the section before to see MOS:ULINK - you think it fucking funny to see me staring at OVERLINK and seeing your overpowering intellect destroying my puny cat like brain of understanding that is all I'm sure - tell me - I am the retard Deacon explain to me carefully like I'm, a fucking limited-intellect-creature in the primordial swamp, waiting to join you in evolutionary superiority (i'm sure) - how What generally should be linked - >> Relevant connections to the subject of another article that will help readers understand the article more fully does not apply to the word "militant" does not apply - because look at me I cannot understand the sequence of words indicated like Mice and Men is being lived out for you personally I'm sure. Here me the retard waiting for your enlightening guideance in wikipedia editorial progress. 23h112e (talk) 21:03, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

al-Baghdadi not captured

I'm not a registered wikipedia user, so I can't fix this, but this wiki article states that a May 9 NYTimes article states that he was captured. This is false, nowhere does it say that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.112.10.204 (talk) 12:43, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

 Done Good call. The article mentions one of his top aides being captured but does not say that al-Baghdadi was captured. I've taken it out. Cheers, -- irn (talk) 13:54, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
Further CNN reported that the names mentioned in Iraqi media specifically did not include Baghdadi in the 5 captured. Legacypac (talk) 18:25, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2018

Can someone change Baghdadi's birth date? None of the sources provided say he was born on July 28, 1971.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2011/sc10405.doc.htm https://rewardsforjustice.net/english/abu_dua.html

All reliable sources only say he was born in 1971. No month or day is provided.

Thanks! 47.196.20.138 (talk) 16:49, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

I've done a careful search and I agree there is no source for a specific date of birth - only the year 1971. Legacypac (talk) 21:08, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 Done per WP:DOB. Sam Sailor 07:04, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello. This request pertains to linguistics. Under the names section he's referred to as Samarrai (like "From Samarra"). However, in Arabic pronunciation, there‘s actually an 'ou' / 'w' type sound between the last two vowels. This transliteration doesn't reflect that. In fact, an English speaker would pronounce this spelling similar to the word "samuri." I think this would be an easy fix (Samarrai to Samarrawi) and it'd go a long way for accuracy.

Thanks. UnemployedJournalist (talk) 18:38, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

A Sunni Muslim in name only

This parasite is a Salafist/Wahhabi, not a Sunni. SphericalEarther2018 (talk) 01:37, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

infobox image

Couldn't we get a new image on Baghadi, from the new video perhaps? Or does ISIS also have copyright? 78.108.56.35 (talk) 16:12, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2019

Al-Baghdadi has a son [6], please add |children=1 in infobox. 219.78.190.130 (talk) 04:34, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi#Children lists a number of alleged/possible children. No figure is listed in the infobox for this reason. NiciVampireHeart 05:49, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Which Barisha?

There are three Barishas in Syria, two of which Baghdadi could have plausibly have been killed in (in Idlib govern., under anti-gov control, close to Turkish border). All sources seem to just say Barisha, Syria. Is it Barisha, Jisr al-Shugur, or Barisha, Harem? -Thespündragon 07:28, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

@Thespoondragon: It is Barisha, Harem near the Turkish borders. UniSail2 (talk) 11:08, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Infobox photograph

Are there any more recent, copyright-free images of him that could be used in the infobox? Like a still from the 2014 speech (the appearance he is most well known for) or the 2019 video released by IS several months ago Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 12:27, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

So far, all the attempts to get new images to this dude failed. It's hard to find licence free images from him. His 2014 speech has some good close ups from him but it's always removed for copyright infringement. Coltsfan (talk) 12:56, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

According to US sources, he's dead as of today

Special forces raid. Hagerthehorrible (talk) 03:11, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

maybe hold off on adding this info until the morning. the white house has some sort of announcement at 9 a.m. 2601:190:400:3E40:A984:D143:9505:10E4 (talk) 03:27, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, the article states that the military hasn't fully confirmed, only they have a high degree of confidence, and they're currently undergoing additional biometric testing. This needs to not show him as dead until it actually has been confirmed. 2601:1C1:8700:1780:94A3:C206:3BCE:3532 (talk) 05:12, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Please tell me that fox-news has never been a requotable source for the english wikipedia. Because it is used as a quote/confirmation of his death in this article.LennBr (talk) 13:07, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Birthday

Many sources have been saying for years he was born 28 July 1971, is there any way to find out if date this is factual and reliable? some other language wikipedias also say he was born that date Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 13:37, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2019

MrMiM (talk) 13:18, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Under the name there are an Arabic phrase "على جهنم و بأس المصير", which is a phrase that is not related to his name. Unprofessional!

Thanks. I believe that's now been fixed. -- zzuuzz (talk) 14:12, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Vandalism

Anybody going to talk about the massive vandalism scrawled across the top of the article? Uaiazr Jxhiosh (talk) 14:00, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

I believe that's been fixed. If you are still seeing it, refresh the page. -- zzuuzz (talk) 14:13, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2019

Could someone put quotation marks around the quotations by Trump in the "Death" section? In everyone's rush to make an edit, there is some sloppy writing. 75.191.40.148 (talk) 16:08, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- zzuuzz (talk) 16:16, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Diane Kruger

The article mentions that al-Baghdadi married a German named Diane Kruger. I assume this is not the same Diane Kruger as the actress, but does anyone have any confirmation of this? T`swift`rocks (talk) 15:58, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

All reports mention a teenager in 2015; the actress would have been in her late 30s, and I'm also sure we'd have heard a lot more about that, so I think we can safely rule out a connection. -- zzuuzz (talk) 16:19, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi :), I'm not trying to impose, just asking. :)

Hello :), considering the suicide with three children by his side, shouldn't we create a Category:Murder-suicide in Syria? Or that's not murder, I respect respect every POV. :) --CoryGlee (talk) 18:49, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2019

Section Listed as global terrorist → subsection Early reports of death, bodily harm, and arrest → 18 April 2017:
However, the Russian Foreign Ministry told Rudaw... Rudaw links to Rudaw; presumably, it should link to Rudaw Media Network. —⁠184.207.108.145 (talk) 19:32, 27 October 2019 (UTC) 184.207.108.145 (talk) 19:32, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

 Done Changed. aboideautalk 19:43, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

NPOV, Notability in Death section

Several senior officials commented that this operation was only possible because of the presence on the ground in Syria allowing for the development of intelligence networks. Any further reduction in troop presence could compromise this capability. The Syrian Democratic Forces provided direct and extensive support to the operation

Not going to edit it yet, but the section regarding the withdrawal seems like an NPOV, especially "any further reduction.... capability"

Also, its not going to be relevant a year from now. And certainly isn't relevant to the subject of this article. Slywriter (talk) 19:15, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Given the cited source doesn't say this plus earlier issues raised, everything except about the Kurds was deleted Slywriter (talk) 20:44, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Restore my lede addition on his type of rule

The following text was removed:

  • He was directly involved in atrocities and human rights violations conducted by ISIL. These include genocide of Yazidis in Iraq, extensive sex slavery, organized rape, floggings and extensive executions. He directed terrorist activities and massacres. He embraced brutality as part of the organization's propaganda efforts, producing videos displaying mass crucifixions, sex slavery and executions via hacking, stoning and burning.[1][2][3][4]

References

  1. ^ "IS leader dead after US raid in Syria, Trump says". 2019-10-27. Retrieved 2019-10-27.
  2. ^ "Islamic State's Baghdadi: a trail of horror and death". Reuters. 2019-10-27. Retrieved 2019-10-27.
  3. ^ "Who was Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi?". 2019-10-27. Retrieved 2019-10-27.
  4. ^ Callimachi, Rukmini; Hassan, Falih (2019-10-27). "Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, ISIS Leader Known for His Brutality, Is Dead at 48". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2019-10-27.

It should be restored. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:36, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2019

The photo posted under the Death section has been revealed to be a staged photograph and not a reaction to a live feed. The following posts support this claim:

- [1] Pete Souza, the former Chief Official White House Photographer for U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama and the former director of the White House Photography Office, shows the IPTC timestamp to being 5:05 PM when the operation conducted at 3:30 PM (all times in Washington time).

- [2] The schedule under Saturday, 26 October 2019 shows that the President was golfing with several officials until roughly 3:33 PM in Potomac Falls, VA. He would not have been present in time for the operation to take place. Joshua Paup (talk) 21:47, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

@Joshua Paup:  Not done. Please give the reliable sources policy a read; Pete Souza making an off-the-cuff, zero-research claim about metadata (which itself can be extraordinarily unreliable) certainly doesn't establish for an ironclad fact that the image was faked. See also the policy on original research. You need a reliable source, and you already know what that is since you read the previous link, that says in plain English that the photo was faked. If you're finding bits of evidence and combining them to reach a conclusion yourself, that's original research and Wikipedia doesn't allow it. 2600:1700:B7A1:9A30:D0F6:2F40:9E20:F180 (talk) 22:49, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
I'd like to add that since Pete Souza tweeted about the timestamp in the metadata, I have seen others express doubt that the raid occurred around 3:30 PM D.C. time (as opposed to approximately 5:00 PM) as earlier reports stated. —⁠184.207.108.145 (talk) 23:15, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://twitter.com/PeteSouza/status/1188471757579194371
  2. ^ https://factba.se/topic/calendar

Staged photo allegation

User:JzG. I agree with removing the allegation that the situation room photo was staged. It's a level of detail that doesn't belong on this bio. Business Insider source appears to be gussied up aspersion casting. The Newsweek story includes exculpatory information from Obama's photog. Mark Schierbecker (talk) 23:39, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Trump was golfing with Lindsey Graham when the raid happened. Guy (help!) 23:51, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
We do not have an accurate timeline of the raid. I do not know how you came to that conclusion, but Newsweek's source was a retracted tweet by the Daily Kos Trending News Manager. [7]. Mark Schierbecker (talk) 00:00, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Recent edits to discussion by IP editor

See the sections infobox image and Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2019 above — the IP 70.115.139.248 added comments that undoubtedly violate discussion page rules. (There may be others.) I leave it to an editor who has more knowledge of the rules than I to delete them. —⁠184.207.108.145 (talk) 19:17, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

They have been removed. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 12:03, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Death date; October 26 or 27

What was the local time when he died? is it possible that it was 27 October? This article by the New York Times says the raid started on midnight local time, 5 PM in Washington D.C., and continued for 2 hours, so according to the New York Times, Baghdadi died on 27 October, but it was still October 26 on the US east coast

(New York Times also has a paywall, so to see the article; stop loading the page by pressing the 'X' button where the refresh button is, immediately after entering the article) Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 17:24, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

More evidence of the date being 27 October; this article mentions that residents heard the gunfire start on midnight Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 17:54, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Definitive proof; according to CNN 'jackpot'; which meant his death, was declared on 7:15 PM in Washington D.C., plus 7 hours means that in Idlib, it was about 1 after midnight, this would fit as other sources reported that the raid began 11PM local time, and lasted for about 2 hours Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 22:27, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

7:15 plus 7 is 2:15 by my math, but yeah, after midnight. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:13, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Raid also involved 75th RR Regimental Reconnaissance Company Rangers

Change "On 26 October 2019, US Joint Special Operations Command's (JSOC) 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta (SFOD-D), commonly known as Delta Force, conducted a raid through air space controlled by Russia and Turkey into the rebel-held Idlib province of Syria on the border with Turkey to capture al-Baghdadi"

to

"On 26 October 2019, US Joint Special Operations Command's (JSOC) 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta (SFOD-D), commonly known as Delta Force, along with Army Rangers from the 75th Ranger Regiment Regimental Reconnaissance Company (RRC) conducted a raid through air space controlled by Russia and Turkey into the rebel-held Idlib province of Syria on the border with Turkey to capture or kill al-Baghdadi" Pocketlite20 (talk) 18:36, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NiciVampireHeart 22:21, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

"Baghdadi" or "al-Baghdadi"

The article needs consistency in surname style. I think we should drop the "al", except in the whole name. What do you think, folks? InedibleHulk (talk) 09:32, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

I’m not remotely an expert, but I believe “al” is consistently used in the Arab world, as with “bin”, such as in “bin Laden”. I think the use of “Baghdadi” is more a result of Westerners not knowing how Arabic nomenclature and general naming conventions work. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 03:50, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
I don't know a ton about Arabic, either. I can pronounce a few common greetings, most UFC Dagestani names and notice a distinction between Al Something and al-Something. Somewhere I recall learning Iraqis use "el-" instead, but that might just be some tribes or never happened. (It was Egyptians). But sources sure seem to call that dastardly duo Baghdadi and Adnani a lot, so maybe we should mostly consider common English transcription in the Western world. I still call Osama bin Laden and Bob Dole by their full names out of unsure caution. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:41, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
To clarify, I don't suggest "Abu Bakr Baghdadi". Looks all wrong. Just when used alone to refer back to him, like "Jones" for Steve Jones. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:12, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
InedibleHulk, I don’t have a strong feeling either way, and while I think it’s acceptable to use Baghdadi occasionally per WP:COMMONNAME, I actually think our guidelines on nomenclature of persons are a better guide here. The long form, I’m sure, is technically the correct form. As I said, I think the aberration here is more due to a lack of familiarity and even general trends in English. Doing a short meta search, I see most foreign language outlets don’t use “Baghdadi”. Then again, I assume, for example, that French sources have more familiarity with Arabic due to their historical connections. I’d like to hear a third party weigh in on this, but as I said, I think we should give strong preferential treatment to “Al-Baghdadi”, but I’m not opposed to the occasional use otherwise, and obviously keep whatever form a source uses if we quote them. I tend to think it’s just more encyclopedic.
As an aside, the “El” form can be found throughout the Mediterranean. I know it’s frequently found in Syria, and occasionally among Palestinians. Levantine Arabic differs rather drastically in nominative vocabulary generally- it’s the influence of Semitic languages these people previously spoke, not technically being ethnic Arabs (most identify as such now by culture and due to Arab Nationalism). Most of these people spoke Syriac, Jewish Aramaic, and Samaritan Aramaic originally, which uses the cognate “El” form instead. Some retained that in their names. Egyptian Arabic was likely influenced due to its geographic proximity, or migration from these areas. Just an educated guess, though. I know it’s used in place names as well, such as El-Armana in Egypt. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 01:38, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Doubts about Trump Situation Room "Live feed" photo

Apparently there are doubts that this photo was taken while President Trump was watching a live feed of the raid with key civilian and military leaders in the White House Situation Room, as the photo description says. Business Insider is one of a handful of outlets reporting that the picture "appears to be staged" and "seems to be taken an hour and a half after the raid commenced."[1]

I respectfully ask that until the photo can be proven to be an authentic shot of the President watching a live raid and not a staged photograph for publicity taken after the fact, the photo should be temporarily taken down from this article, or at least the description should be changed to reflect the contested nature of the claim that this photo shows the President watching the raid live as it unfolded. 64.229.148.186 (talk) 20:02, 27 October 2019 (UTC)R

You’ll see that issues tangentially related to this have been raised before, and were brought up in the time of death thread below. There does appear to be some doubt as to whether Trump was watching, or even aware it was happening while the op was ongoing, and that this was perhaps done on initiative per standing orders. But it’s all conjecture. Maybe he was golfing with Graham, and maybe he didn’t know the operation was happening until after. It doesn’t matter. Either reliable sources will report on this (aside from Op-Ed’s) and break a story, or (more likely) we won’t know for many years to come. Right now, there’s no policy-based reason to doubt the photo is real, or that the account substantially differs. The policy “NOTCENSORED” is probably relevant here. It’s inherently encyclopedic, and so it should stay until there’s good reason to remove it. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 02:01, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Mass crucifixions etc

We write in the lead:

He embraced brutality as part of the organization's propaganda efforts, producing videos displaying mass crucifixions, sex slavery and executions via hacking, stoning and burning.

I can't find in any of the citations support for mass crucifixions. In Crucifixion we have this:

On 30 April 2014 Islamic extremists carried out a total of seven public executions in Raqqa, northern Syria.[144] The pictures, originally posted to Twitter by a student at Oxford University, were retweeted by a Twitter account owned by a known member of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) causing major media outlets to incorrectly attribute the crucifixions to the militant group.

What am I missing? --causa sui (talk) 00:39, 28 October 2019 (UTC)


Daily Telegraph should not be used as a source? Yes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:E002:5B0D:DC01:8472:1D7E:6359:D00E (talk) 09:04, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

I’m not sure if its been deprecated, but I do remember the consensus that it was generally unreliable. So yes, we should find a better source if it’s used. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 01:50, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
If the consensus is that the source is unreliable, then in my opinion we should remove the content it supports until the better source is found --causa sui (talk) 04:25, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Only two children killed

I don't want to edit this article, I'd rather someone with more experience do it. Multiple sources are showing that only two children were killed, not three as originally reported:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/pentagon-releases-new-details-on-al-baghdadi-raid-1.4663409

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/30/politics/pentagon-baghdadi-raid-video/index.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/releases-footage-detail-al-baghdadi-raid-191031010956094.html

The Death section shows this revision, but the lead does not. MrAureliusRTalk! 04:54, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Death

Because his death hasn't been confirmed, shouldn't the page mention him as PKIA (Presumed killed in action) instead of KIA? XNanoWarriorx (talk) 05:26, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. As more information comes out over the next few hours, Wikipedia should keep to its usual standards of evidence, especially considering that there have been multiple instances in the past where his death was reported which turned out to (obviously) be false. Devgirl (talk) 06:15, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
I don't think it should say anything until this is a verified and confirmed story. If you have more than this(https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/targetted-isil-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-191027050027973.html). In the next 24 hours trump says he will make a statement. Even after that, I would wait until it's fully covered. Technophant (talk) 08:53, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
If it's true, I'm sure we'll eventually even get a situation room photo with everyone looking serious paying attention to what's going on except for that one person who's trying to work out if he can Tweet with a secure phone or waiting to change the channel to Fox News. So we'll probably even have a sub article. Nil Einne (talk) 13:20, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Sources said death date is October 26th - however (probably) it is in USA time. I found that attack began at midnight of *local* time, that mean the death date should be October 27th, shouldn't it? Sources, eg. https://time.com/5711615/al-baghdadi-isis-leader-dead/ AstroGajowy (talk) 17:53, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Any information out there as to what who when and where supposed DNA testing was done and so quickly? The man apparently blew himself apart in the middle of a wasteland and they found pieces of him, mixed with the remains of three other humans in short order, ran the DNA spread and compared to living relatives that quickly? Skepticism notwithstanding, I find this to be a fascinating story in of itself.RRskaReb talk 01:27, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Israel has proven this was perfectly possible. They regularly identify victims of bombings, usually based on small samples collected from the explosion. And they’re capable of doing so quickly. The main obstacle is having samples from a close relative for comparison. Perhaps you’re correct. Regardless of the reality, it’s entirely plausible, and we report what reliable sources say. Until we get evidence otherwise, we can’t report it.Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 05:05, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Whimpering and Crying

I don’t believe that is appropriate to put in the Article considering the fact that no one actually witnessed it and the pentagon has even said that while he may be dead they cannot confirm that he was crying Even him being dead is questionable since this is not the first time he was declared dead I myself was surprised to hear that a dead man was killed again Igala OmOnu (talk) 11:09, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

It’s perfectly acceptable to use Trump’s characterization of this, so long as it’s firmly attributed. Honestly, it’s probably more due because his description in this instance is questioned by some sources, and because of his somewhat unexpected emphasis on the matter. It’s probably just another example of Trump going off script, and nothing special (in my humble opinion), but it does seem to have generated a fair amount of attention in reliable sources, so we’re sort of obliged to at least mention it. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 01:47, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
I don't think it's appropriate to put this statement in the first part of the article, at least in current form, which implies it is a fact that is verified by Trump, when rather it is just a statement that Trump has made and can't be verified. Adonnus (talk) 08:13, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Turkey

Note that per Reuters Turkey says it "coordinated" with U.S. in Baghdadi operation. – Sca (talk) 13:28, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

As that is a Turkish source saying that, it's just a claim until more is found out. On the other hand other sources are questioning if Turkey had any remote clue if he was within their controlled area. --Caprihurst (talk) 06:00, 3 November 2019 (UTC)


Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2020

Successor: Amir Mohammed Abdul Rahman al-Mawli al-Salbi [2] Tnovalis (talk) 19:37, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please see WP:DAILYMAIL. The Daily Mail and its online form Mailonline are not considered reliable sources for factual claims. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 13:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-situation-room-photo-baghdadi-analysis-obama-bin-laden-comparison-2019-10
  2. ^ James Gant For Mailonline at 7:10 PM UTC on 20 January 2020

Assad's comments on the operation, Kurdish involvement

It was clearly the kurdish YPG forces that led the operation to find Baghdadi, it was their spy who located Baghdadi. That should be written on Wikipedia also. Now the whole page sounds like some sort of turkish propaganda effort to obscure the fact he was hiding in turkish controlled territory for years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.155.228.226 (talk) 17:31, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

As per this interview Assad says that even though Trump thanked Syria, they only heard it "through the media." and that the only reason why U.S. thanked such countries is to portray a sense of "credibility" of involvement to others to avoid embarrassment and a sense "that they are part of a “great” operation".

Comments from Trump's administration to refuse to admit Kurdish involvement, to avoid the fact that they are being betrayed/abandoned, but helping to actually take down ISIS. The ISIS spy was actually found by the SDF as per this news article story.

NBCNews Chief Foreign Correspondent, Richard Engel stated on twitter ″There’s a reason Kurds are sharing so much intelligence. They want to show they played, and still play, a vital role fighting ISIS. That they lost 11,000 people doing it, and should not be abandoned by the US while their homeland is under attack. It's not about bragging rights.″

and also

″US and Kurdish officials tell @NBCNews raid on Baghdadi succeed despite Trump's efforts, not because of them. Remember, Trump wanted to pull US troops out Syria, effectively ending mission with Kurds, well before they had their informant. Mattis, @brett_mcgurk resigned over it.″

--Caprihurst (talk) 06:04, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Photo from arabic wikipedia

On the Arabic version of this article, the infobox photo of him is from 2014, from when he was actually leader of ISIS, rather than a mugshot from 16 years ago as we have on this article. (https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D9%84%D9%81:Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi_khutbah.png). The license says it's copyrighted but is fair use. Could this photo also be used here? Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 02:31, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2020

Change Succeeded by to Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi who is the new leader of ISIS. [1] [2] Dpav0615 (talk) 04:48, 31 July 2020 (UTC) Dpav0615 (talk) 04:48, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

 Already done Danski454 (talk) 03:33, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ibrahim_al-Hashimi_al-Qurashi
  2. ^ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50254785

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2020

Change: "On 27 October 2019, Baghdadi killed himself and two children by detonating a suicide vest during the Barisha raid, conducted by the United States following approval from President Donald Trump, in Syria's northwestern Idlib Province.[18]" to On 27 October 2019, Baghdadi killed himself and three children by detonating a suicide vest during the Barisha raid, conducted by the United States following approval from President Donald Trump, in Syria's northwestern Idlib Province.[18]"

The articles that is linked as a source states "He ignited his vest, killing himself and the three children." I believe that this may have been a typo in the wiki article. 139.161.117.156 (talk) 15:40, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Please see the article text. The NPR source linked from the very next sentence makes it clear that the initial White House statement was incorrect and only two children were killed. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:00, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
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