Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 42

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Archive 35

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Archive 40

Google Books links to Baseball Digest

Hello.

While working on fixing invalid ISSNs, I came across some broken links to issues of Baseball Digest on Google Books. I was wondering if there was a quick way to track down all of instances of Baseball Digest issues on Google Books and seeing whether there's a replacement link or not.

Here's an example of the invalid links:

Thank you! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:43, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

MLB rivalries

Please see Talk:Major League Baseball rivalries#Original research and comment on how best to improve the page. Thanks. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:20, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

AfD

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ryan Jones (baseball) Joeykai (talk) 09:31, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Kirby Puckett

Another editor has left a note in this article pointing out that although the article claims he was picked in the 1982 Major League Baseball draft, that doesn't match what the draft article says. The draft article is based on MLB First Round Draft Picks - 1982 from ESPN, which doesn't mention Puckett. However, he is present, as described - 1st round, 3rd pick - in the 1st Round of the 1982 MLB January Draft-Regular Phase on Baseball-Reference - that draft doesn't appear to have a Wikipedia article, or even a mention. Can anyone disentangle this ? Colonies Chris (talk) 18:03, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

See this quote on the subject from here [1]:

"Originally, three separate drafts were held each year. The June draft, which was by far the largest, involved new high school graduates, as well as college seniors who had just finished their seasons. It started in 1965, and continues to this day.

A second draft was held in January for high school and college players who graduated in the winter. Finally, there was a draft in August for players who participated in amateur summer leagues. The August draft was eliminated after only two years, while the January draft lasted until 1986." Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 19:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

So there'a a need for a set of articles 19xx Major League Baseball January draft for the years 196686, and 19xx Major League Baseball August draft for 1965-66? Colonies Chris (talk) 13:17, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Probably. Those were supplemental drafts, so of lesser consequence than the main June draft, but we are lacking pages on them presently. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:26, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

There was a discussion awhile back about doing something for the January drafts, but it never went anywhere.. I think they could easily get added to the main draft articles for the year rather than creating new articles. Spanneraol (talk) 16:46, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

www.baseballlibrary.com

Around 700 articles have references to this website, but it's dead - no trace of it at all that I can find. Anyone know where it's gone, or if its contents are available elsewhere? whois shows the domain having expired a few weeks ago. Colonies Chris (talk) 21:27, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

The URL has now been taken over by a get-rich-quick website, so it's important to either fix or remove these citations. Colonies Chris (talk) 15:25, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Valuable source re: National Association's status as a "major" league

Happened upon this post from John Thorn recently. In it, John Thorn details the official MLB position on the NA's status. Staxringold _talk^contribs 03:35, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Two baseball categories at WP:Categories for deletion

It is Hiroshima Carp players and Hiroshima Carp. The CFDs can be found here[2] and here[3]. Please come over and join in the discussion....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:46, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Category:National Baseball Hall of Fame inductees

Category:National Baseball Hall of Fame inductees has been nominated for deletion. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:14, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Pittsburgh Pirates colors at Module:Baseball color/data

Just a quick FYI: there is a discussion over at Module talk:Baseball color regarding the HTML color formatting for the Pittsburgh Pirates. Please feel free to contribute to the discussion. The purpose of the discussion is to reach a consensus regarding the color order for the HTML color values for the Pirates at Module:Baseball color/data. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 07:24, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Minor League Baseball roster navbox templates

All Minor League Baseball roster navboxes have been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the templates’ entry on the Templates for discussion page. NatureBoyMD (talk) 16:25, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Is this Layne Somsen

I don't think this is necessarily Layne Somsen, but I think it's probably him. Can anybody who knows more about the Reds look at this pic and correct its name and description if necessary?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Editosaurus (talk • contribs) 17:40, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

nevermind it's Ohlendorf Editosaurus (talk) 22:00, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Mickey Doolan or Doolin?

So on his wiki page, his last name is spelled Doolan. However, on his Baseball Reference page his last name is spelled Doolin. So I'm just a little confused on which one is right. Does anybody know anything about this? Taffe316 (talk) 08:38, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

His SABR bio (linked from BR) has Doolan, and I did a quick newspapers.com check where Doolan easily wins out. Once in a great while BR has a name where I'm not sure where they got it from, and this looks like one of those cases. Wizardman 13:45, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:GBL Ballparks

Template:GBL Ballparks has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. 117Avenue (talk) 03:14, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Topic ban discussion

FYI

There is a topic ban proposal that impacts a baseball editor at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Proposed_topic_ban_for_User:Basketballfan12.—Bagumba (talk) 02:32, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Inclusion of Ed Delahanty in "The Best Phillies Team Ever" book

Another editor and I are disagreeing over the inclusion of a fact in the Ed Delahanty article. In 2014, an editor added the following line to the article:

Delahanty is part of the Phillies all-time 25-man roster in the John J. Rust book The Best Phillies Team Ever.[4]

I recently removed the line. The editor who added the line has only edited articles to add specific references to books written by one author. More importantly, the editor's username (Rustyjj70) is suspiciously close to the name of the author (John J. Rust) whose books he or she exclusively edits to add to articles. Finally, there is no indication whatsoever that this self-published book is particularly important, noteworthy, or even reliable.

Rjensen disagrees with me and has reverted my edit. He has written on his Talk page the following explanation for his edit:

The statement "Delahanty is part of the Phillies all-time 25-man roster in the John J. Rust book ..." is valuable and useful to readers. The fact that an editor (Rusty) is an authority on the Phillies in my opinion enhances the value of the edit. Our job here is to maximize the value of info we give the reader and erasing such an important bit on info is not a good idea. If a reader buys the book, then that's not a crisis. Chances are the reader is keen on the Phillies. I think the sentence falls inside the Wiki guidelines on "advertising" at WP:PLUG: Information about companies and products must be written in an objective and unbiased style, free of puffery.

Should this material be included in this article? ElKevbo (talk) 20:17, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Looks like a self-promotion/spam campaign to me. Reso lute 14:28, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Mets WikiProject

Can someone add it to the page, please? Leggomygreggo8 (talk) 19:58, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

I'd prefer to wait until there's been some activity for a while before adding anything, given that pretty much every team-based project is currently inactive as is. Wizardman 22:38, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Yeah team based task-forces/wikiprojects in all sports pretty much always fail. When the traffic on this talk page is so low there is no reason to not to just do the discussing here instead. -DJSasso (talk) 19:01, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

We will not fail. Leggomygreggo8 (talk) 00:09, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Just a suggestion: by holding your discussions on this talk page, both WikiProject Baseball and your group of interested editors can mutually benefit. WikiProject Baseball can use some conversations on this talk page to re-invigorate the project, and you may get more people interested in helping out with your planned tasks. isaacl (talk) 01:05, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Town Team Baseball

Among other issues (such as oodles of unsourced info) should Town Team Baseball be capitalized like this? I wouldn't think it's a proper noun, but I just wanna be sure. Lizard (talk) 17:09, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Should Japanese baseball qualify as a top tier professional league

A reader wrote to wikimedia with some thought about this subject - but doesn't have experience editing. I'm starting this to start the discussion.--S Philbrick (Talk) 22:52, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Well, literally, the NPB is the "top tier" of baseball in Japan, since it's the highest level of pro baseball played there. Lizard (talk) 23:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

My first question is "why are they asking"? Is there a list of top tier professional baseball leagues that Japan should be added to/removed from? AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 23:56, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

The discussion has been heated lately since Ichiro "passed" Pete Rose in all-time pro baseball hits last week. My guess is it has something to do with it. Lizard (talk) 00:09, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that's it. I'm bowing out - please be kind to newbies.--S Philbrick (Talk) 00:12, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

NPB is absolutely a top tier league. MLB, then NPB, then KBO, then CPBL. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:16, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

If it is specifically about Ichiro, then I think we need to rely upon how the majority of news sources report it. From what I've seen, the US reports tend to count his NPB stats. The Japanese media is including it as a matter of course, although they have noted some Americans don't like it. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 00:32, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

DSL Mariners 2

Last night I was updating some of the Dominican Summer League roster templates and it appears that the second DSL Mariners team has folded. I was unable to find any sources, but they aren't listed on the DSL schedule page and clicking on the roster link in the template returns a (mostly) blank page. The template should be deleted, or redirected to the other Mariners DSL team roster page, in my opinion. Trut-h-urts man (T • C) 16:48, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

As I am still unable to find any info on the DSL Mariners 2 team, I am going to redirect the page. Trut-h-urts man (T • C) 23:19, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

"Uncle Jake McGee"

Please note that the editor adding "Uncle Jake McGee" as a nickname to Jake McGee is active once again, and has now used two different IPs to disrupt the page. See the page history from March, as well as the RPP and the 3RR report I have filed for more information. Assistance in keeping an eye on this user would be greatly appreciated. Trut-h-urts man (T • C) 23:18, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Brett Phillips

I would appreciate if anyone would chime in at Talk:Brett_Phillips_(baseball)#2016_spring_training_competition. Thanks. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:56, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Past playing positions listed in infobox for current coaches

Doesn't it seem misleading to have current coaches' former playing positions listed in the infobox alongside their coaching position? For example, at first glance it looks like Barry Bonds currently wears 25 and plays left field for the Marlins while also serving as hitting coach. In football we only include the current coaching position (see Dick LeBeau), and it looks like that's done in basketball as well (Jason Kidd). Is this a traditional baseball thing or something? I searched the talk page archives and the style advice page but I couldn't find anything on this with a quick search. Lizard (talk) 03:58, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Ideally, a baseball person should have their current position at the top of the infobox, and past playing positions of any staff and execs should be listed somewhere else in the infobox. The problem with Dick LeBeau in the NFL is that his playing position is not anywhere in the infobox.—Bagumba (talk) 02:14, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

All-Star Game MVP

Last time I checked, it was against the consensus of this WikiProject for the MLB All-Star Game MVP Award to be listed in players' infoboxes. However, I wanted to verify that this is still the consensus regarding that award. An IP editor placed it back into Eric Hosmer's infobox a little while ago (completely ignoring the hidden note, as everyone always does), and I cannot revert it right now since I've already reverted it three times in less than 24 hours. --A guy saved by Jesus (talk) 21:52, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Baseball/Archive_32#Standard_infobox is where this was discussed. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:56, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Hold the phone. You're saying people ignore hidden notes? Preposterous. Lizard (talk) 22:00, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Off topic- This Baseball fan lost interest in the all-star game a long time ago. Maybe due to Dave Parker getting the 1979 game MVP. He guns down two baserunners, but one of them was after me misplayed a fly ball to right. Lee Mazilli homers to tie the game and draws a bases loaded walk to force in the winning run doesn't get the award. What's wrong with that picture? It's an exhibition game not to be taken seriously....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:48, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

The NBA's is also an exhibition, but the AS MVP is more associated with a player's legacy there.—Bagumba (talk) 02:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

For anyone who is unaware, Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball/Player style advice contains the consensus guidance for player articles, including highlights in the infobox. isaacl (talk) 02:57, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Philadelphia Sports Hall of Fame navigational boxes nominated for deletion

I have nominated the 13 Philadelphia Sports Hall of Fame navigational boxes for deletion. Please see the discussion here. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 16:41, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Please re-evaluate article rating?

Team, I recently significantly expanded the article from FRED FRANKHOUSE from 3 uncited lines to what it is currently. I'm asking that the article be reevaluated for class rating, and for suggestions as to what I can do to improve the article. Thanks. --JGHSMC (talk) 04:39, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

On a quick look through, just on content it looks like a solid C class. The infobox has some stuff that I'm not sure belongs, but that's easily fixed. The article is well-sourced, but maybe too sourced. Overciting can be an issue as all those footnotes can distract the reader. If a fact isn't likely to be challenged typically only one citation will do. "The dog barked" doesn't need 4 different sources to confirm that the dog barked, because that's what dogs do. Lizard (talk) 06:13, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

The article is not a C class, there are issues with the reliability of the sources, especially using an ancestry.com self-published source, which I'm sure is against policy. I also have questions about using this as a reliable source as I don't believe it had editorial oversight. Many of the content sourced with those two citations can be sourced elsewhere as it is not controversial content. I agree with Lizard about the citation overkill, especially when it's strictly disallowed like the lead. Also the pictures are not your own work as you clearly didn't photograph them. I read somewhere that pictures after 1923 that are published in the United States are copyrighted unless there proof to the contrary, in which you need to change the tag. I removed two of the images in question. Prevan (talk) 17:33, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Neutrality concerns at Joe West (umpire)

I have a disagreement with Wpete510 over some edits to Joe West's article that I didn't find to be especially balanced. While Wpete510 has made a honest effort to clean up the wording, I am still concerned about the necessity of including the quotes from the White Sox announcers. To put it frankly, White Sox broadcasters have tended not to be the most level-headed, rational bunch, and broadcasters in general are often not a good source for fair-minded evaluation of umpiring performance. I still don't think the phrasing is very neutral, and I am concerned based on this edit that Wpete510 never intended to be neutral. Since I don't want to get involved in an edit war, I'd appreciate it if a few others could take a look, even if they just end up telling me that I'm being overly picky. Lepricavark (talk) 11:13, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Resource on list of major league umpires?

I have no idea about baseball but I am working on an article about a gentleman who amongst other things umpired one major league match (and many minor league matches) either in the late 1880s or early 1890s. I don't suppose there is a website that handily lists all major league umpires? --Roisterer (talk) 01:18, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Retrosheet has a list here.Penale52 (talk) 12:42, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Big Three (Atlanta Braves)

This article was recently created, but I'm not sure what to think about it. As a Braves fan, I rarely recall hearing that term used. Not sure the article is needed either. Any thoughts?. - BilCat (talk) 15:11, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

It would need to meet WP:GNG, with the threesome as a group (not individually) receiving significant coverage. No opinion whether it meets it, but the article currently being sourced purely from stats from baseball-reference.com gives no indication that it's anything but WP:OR.—Bagumba (talk) 15:34, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. Reads like a fan essay, with no actual evidence of the title ever having been used. oknazevad (talk) 15:39, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Google search make the topic look promising.[5] However, the content read like pure OR, cherrypicking fan memories from a stats site.—Bagumba (talk) 15:42, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the "fan essay" comment. The article would be more at home in a sports magazine rather than an encyclopedia. That being said, Wikipedia does have similar articles such as Murderers' Row.Orsoni (talk) 16:08, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, there is Category:Nicknamed groups of baseball players. These articles can be effective when secondary sources are used to describe why the group is notable. One of the worst examples is something like Generation K (or Big Three (Miami Heat) in basketball), which is just three sections describing the members individually; that's what bios are for.—Bagumba (talk) 16:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

I recall them being known as "Generation K", though. That article can be improved. Was "Big Three" really a nickname for either the Braves or Heat? I don't know. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:03, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Fkr the Heat, most certainly, though it may have been used for the Celtics first a couple of years prior with the Pierce-Garnett-Bosh trio. But that still doesn't tell us anything about whether or not the term was actually used for the Braves pitching staff at that time. oknazevad (talk) 17:21, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Big Three (Oakland Athletics) was also created by the same editor. I believe this topic is notable, but the article is mostly WP:OR recreated by their interpretation of cited boxscores.—Bagumba (talk) 18:10, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

To me it feels like creating different redirects for every left-handed pitcher who was known as "Lefty". It's pretty routine for a sports journalist to call a team's top three starters the "Big Three". Personally, I don't think every baseball term of convenience used by journalists and fans warrants an article. isaacl (talk) 18:19, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, WP:NEO discourages articles based only on terms used. GNG could be met by sources that talk about the grouping, not just using the name is passing.—Bagumba (talk) 18:23, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I think I'm going to nominate the Braves article for deletion. The A's one probably does meet GNG, but I'll look into that as well. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:20, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I forgot to mention in my previous comment that, I had never seen or read anything in which the Atlanta pitchers were called the "Big Three". The same goes for the Oakland pitchers. It seems that the editor created his own name for the players.Orsoni (talk) 18:26, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Can you relook at the Google results I posted above (15:42, 27 July 2016). I only skimmed it, but I'd go through it more thoroughly if it gets nominated. In any case, it seems more promising than the editor's recent creation of Fantastic Four (Golden State Warriors).—Bagumba (talk) 18:28, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps the biggest sin of this article is the constant use of past-tense would. "They would win the game." "He would pitch 6 innings." "They would claim the pennant." Yeh? Would they? Did they or did they not?... Rant over, just a pet peeve of mine. Lizard (talk) 19:26, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes. I hate when I see people write past-tense with "would". – Muboshgu (talk) 21:00, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm pretty confident that the Braves trio is notable based on recent coverage I found on the group, and undoubtedly more on them during their careers.

"Braves Big Three: from Atlanta to Cooperstown". Atlanta Journal Constitution. July 26, 2015.
"Smoltz keeps Braves' Big Three intact". Times Free Press. January 7, 2015.
"Last Run For Braves' Big Three?". The Free Lance-Star. February 23, 2000.

—Bagumba (talk) 20:50, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

The user also created Big Three (San Antonio Spurs). Thoughts? (p.s. the word "would" is used 120 times in that article.) – Muboshgu (talk) 21:03, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

And the word "would" is used 86 times in the A's article and 233 times in the Braves article. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:05, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Based on the their accomplishments and longevity, I would assume there's enough sources on them. I know during the most recent playoffs there was frequent mention of them surpassing the Lakers trio of Kareem, Magic, and (I think) Michael Copper for the most playoff wins by a threesome. (I was even on the verge of creating a list of most playoff wins by an NBA trio, but never followed through)—Bagumba (talk) 21:40, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

The semi-promotional needs of sports journalism results in writers referring to players by various appellations. If they are distinct terms, and achieve a certain degree of widespread use, then they may qualify for independent coverage in Wikipedia. But having a different "Ace" article for each team would be pointless, and similarly "Big Three" is a common term used by many journalists for many teams. isaacl (talk) 02:14, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Really, "Big Three" mostly impacts the article title. The bigger question is whether there is significant coverage of the group itself, not just that the name is used often. If there is coverage, the article on the Braves trio should exist, and we can debate on whether that article is named "Big Three" or something else.—Bagumba (talk) 02:53, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Well, that's a different discussion... In a similar manner, though, it is common for sports writers to discuss the top pitchers/players on a team and for convenience to give them some sort of label. The standards of sports journalism differ from that of encyclopedic coverage, and accordingly not everything in a sports article is suitable as evidence of meeting Wikipedia's standards for inclusion. isaacl (talk) 03:46, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

When would you suggest that a group of players is notable for an article?—Bagumba (talk) 03:58, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

I think covering a group of players within a team is better done within the team (history) article or a season article, where it can be placed into context with the rest of the team and background for the season. Although I wouldn't be too surprised if someone can find a case where an independent article may be suitable, at the moment I just can't think of good example. For non-team sports, I can see a case for a group like the Crazy Canucks, where the name became a broadly-known nickname for its members and its membership was fixed. isaacl (talk) 04:51, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

A reader could be more interested in the group and less about the team, and a dedicated article could go into more depth on the group, whereas it would be undue in a team article.—Bagumba (talk) 05:56, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

An example would help; I just can't think of a case at the moment where a discussion of a group within a team would not benefit from the team context. What in-depth groups actually have an extensive history to describe that would not fit into a team / team history article? (I was thinking about a special team unit of a football team, but since they generally don't have a stable membership from year to year, and are subject to changes in coaching as well, I felt that it would still benefit from being placed into greater context. I also thought of Tinkers, Evers, and Chance, but their notability as a group derives from being in a poem, and so the coverage of the poem is sufficient.) isaacl (talk) 12:21, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Take Bash Brothers (disclosure: I started it). Depth that seems relevant to the standalone article but not to History of the Oakland Athletics would be overview of their amateur background, details of Monster Bash ritual, details on marketing of Bash Brothers, overview on their careers after Oakland, and more specifics on steroids allegations and use. A merge would result in lost detail for the reader, commingling with non-Bash Brother text more relevant to the team, and forcing readers to look to individual bios to piece together some info that is not relevant to the team article, but is to the bios or an article specific to the duo. An analogy would be to not have 2016 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, and spreading the details to 2016 Major League Baseball season and Major League Baseball All-Star Game. I think it's OK to provide cross sections that have some overlap if the grouping is frequently discussed, which is more than just frequent use of a nickname.—Bagumba (talk) 16:22, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

As I said, I'm not too surprised if a case can be made for some situations. I'm not convinced though that the article is mostly about the combined duo, as opposed to just covering some marketing done together (as many teammates have done) and putting their careers into juxtaposition. isaacl (talk) 17:02, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

While it has nothing to do with field performance, marketing is relevant to these phenomena, moreso perhaps if there is independent coverage on said marketing.—Bagumba (talk) 17:10, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Coverage of marketing is often somewhat promotional in nature, but there can be neutral critical analysis of marketing as well. In this case, the marketing campaign might meet Wikipedia's standards for inclusion. I'm still on the fence regarding the duo itself, as I'm unclear if they adopted the Bash Brothers persona as a separate brand from the team for personal initiatives (though of course it would be a moot point if it were determined that the campaign warranted an article). isaacl (talk) 03:47, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

chrono order of post-season results in infobox

MLB infoboxes show league championships, penants, division titles, and wild card links in reverse chronological order (newest to oldest). See New York Yankees (or Houston Astros, etc)

World Series titles (27) 2009 2000 1999 1998 1996 1978 1977 1962 1961 1958 1956 1953 1952 1951 1950 1949 1947 1943 1941 1939 1938 1937 1936 1932 1928 1927 1923
AL Pennants (40) 2009 2003 2001 2000 1999 1998 1996 1981 1978 1977 1976 1964 1963 1962 1961 1960 1958 1957 1956 1955 1953 1952 1951 1950 1949 1947 1943 1942 1941 1939 1938 1937 1936 1932 1928 1927 1926 1923 1922 1921
East Division titles (18) 2012 2011 2009 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1996 1981 1980 1978 1977 1976
Wild card berths (5) 2015 2010 2007 1997 1995

The other major NA sports leagues display infobox content in chronological order, for example NFL New York Giants, NBA New York Knicks, and NHL New York Rangers.

Seems like these season links within the MLB infoboxes should be updated to chronological order. Is this current inconsistency by design? UW Dawgs (talk) 22:32, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Yea, everyone else is doing it wrong. lol - Spanneraol (talk) 23:05, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

In my opinion, chronological order is the correct option.Orsoni (talk) 18:30, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Should be easiest to latest per guideline WP:SALORDER.—Bagumba (talk) 20:53, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Presume you meant to type "earliest". I agree with that. The current to past ordering is odd. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:07, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Seems non-controversial to correct, here is the target list and ~~completions~~:

~~Arizona Diamondbacks~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 00:31, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Atlanta Braves~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Baltimore Orioles~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Boston Red Sox~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Chicago Cubs~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Chicago White Sox~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Cincinnati Reds~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Cleveland Indians~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Colorado Rockies~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Detroit Tigers~~ Lepricavark (talk) 02:23, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Houston Astros~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 15:54, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Kansas City Royals~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 15:54, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 15:54, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Los Angeles Dodgers~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 15:54, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Miami Marlins~~ Lepricavark (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Milwaukee Brewers~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 17:54, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Minnesota Twins~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 17:54, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~New York Mets~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 17:54, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~New York Yankees~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 17:54, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Oakland Athletics~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 19:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Philadelphia Phillies~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 19:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Pittsburgh Pirates~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 19:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~St. Louis Cardinals~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 19:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~San Diego Padres~~ —Bagumba (talk) 05:44, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~San Francisco Giants~~ UW Dawgs (talk) 19:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Seattle Mariners~~ Lepricavark (talk) 02:57, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Tampa Bay Rays~~ Lepricavark (talk) 02:25, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Texas Rangers~~ Lepricavark (talk) 02:57, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Toronto Blue Jays~~ Lepricavark (talk) 02:57, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
~~Washington Nationals~~ Lepricavark (talk) 02:57, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Cheers, UW Dawgs (talk) 00:31, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Nippon Professional Baseball

This is a question from a user who is not member of this project but who edits new articles on Japan. Another user has been adding lots of stub articles on Nippon Professional Baseball players. That's good, but some include players like Yuta Arakawa who retired without ever playing on the first team. As you know, NPB does not have a farm system (though there are some independent minor leagues), so each major team has a first team and a second team, the second one playing a regular schedule in some smaller town. Reaching the first team is thus like reaching the majors in the MLB. My question is whether a player who has only played on the second team passes WP:NBASE? Is there consensus about this on the project? Michitaro (talk) 12:30, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Actually, the Eastern League (Japanese baseball) and Western League (Japanese baseball) are a farm system, albeit one with fewer levels than in the US. To answer the question, players who've only played for the affiliates in those leagues are only nitable if they pass the WP:GNG. oknazevad (talk) 16:17, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Alexander Cartwright

Can someone rewrite the article for Alexander Cartwright? The article needs be better research and reflect modern scholarly consensus on the subject.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Alexander Cartwright

Can someone rewrite the article for Alexander Cartwright? The article needs be better research and reflect modern scholarly consensus on the subject.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Chapman

See this edit. Thoughts are most welcome. Best, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 16:41, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

I reverted the addition. It's WP:UNDUE weight. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:50, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Japanese team articles

Each NPB team article has a subsection titled "MLB players". Is there any guide as to who is supposed to be listed there? On first glance, the Hanshin Tigers list seems to include any person who has played MLB and played for the Tigers. As for dates, most seem to list when the person played MLB (not when they played for the Tigers), but I think it should be the other way around. Each team's article takes on a different format with varying degrees of accuracy; Hiroshima's list includes Hiroki Kuroda as an active MLB player (he's not) but is missing Kenta Maeda. If anyone can point in the direction of what the lists should look like, I'd be happy to fix them myself over time. If there has never been a discussion, then perhaps now is the time to have one. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:09, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

First Tennessee Park FAC

Your input concerning the Featured Article candidacy of First Tennessee Park at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/First Tennessee Park/archive2 will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! NatureBoyMD (talk) 15:02, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Anybody? Please... It wasn't promoted last time because of a lack of comments. ---> Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/First Tennessee Park/archive2 NatureBoyMD (talk) 01:34, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Jose Fernandez Nominated at WP:INTHENEWS

An article that may be of interest to members of this project has been nominated to be linked on the main under the In the News section. That discussion may be found here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:45, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Category:1990 International League season has been nominated for discussion

Category:1990 International League season, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for merging to Category:1990 in baseball. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 18:56, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Baseball articles with assessment comments

Hello baseball people. In line with WP:DCS all comments subpages have now been deprecated. However I noticed there are still quite a few baseball articles which have these subpages. For example,

Does your project have any interest in keeping these pages? Should we move them to project space? Should we substitute them on the article talk page (as all the other comments subpages were)? Or shall we just delete them? Any thoughts would be appreciated — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:09, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

If there are no comments in a few days I will deal with these pages as we have done with all the other comments subpages, and substitute their contents onto the article's talk page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:51, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

This is now

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:30, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

List of baseball players who died during their careers

I just did a massive reversion of this article after an editor @Dmoore5556: made a separate section for players who died while in the military. Whether players should be separated from the main list for that reason is open to discussion but the new section had a glaring problem- It contained at least three entries for baseball players who died years after their baseball careers were over. Like Bill Stearns who passed away in 1898 but last played pro ball in 1875! Check out Bun Troy and Bob Neighbors too for problems.

The same editor also altered those 3 player articles to link back to List of baseball players who died during their careers. I reverted those edits.

Another possible issue with the this editor is his breaking off some players into a separate list just because they were playing minor league ball. I'd like to hear opinions on that.

The editor made some legit edits to the list but were undone in the massive reversion only because the military section removals would require more work to fix....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 02:36, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi - I'm the guilty party; apologies if I went off track, I'm pretty new here.... I concur, the table of Military personnel included players no longer active. I had been thinking the list of major league players (current & past) who died in military service could be a new page by itself (?). It's a known & interesting (to me, and perhaps others) list of major leaguers (current & past) who died in military service, which is what I was trying to capture, albeit not in the right place, in hindsight. Would moving forward to create such new page be a valid action to take vs. revert? I appreciate the feedback and will try to do better. Dmoore5556 (talk) 02:59, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Need of a universal game log template

All I have to say is that I'm frustrated with the game logs that we have on all of these baseball articles. I have been editing on Wikipedia for more than six years, but I can't even figure out how to add the National League Championship Series schedule to the 2016 Chicago Cubs season article without messing up the coding and how it appears on everyone's screens. For the last year, I have found editing these game logs difficult. When I edited on the 2014–15 Chicago Bulls season article, I found adding and editing NBA game logs so much easier because all of the confusing code was already applied and all the users had to do was fill in the blanks.

Another problem that I have with MLB game logs is that there is a lack of universal consensus to their appearance or what is to be included in these game logs. On some articles, the text is in a different font or a different size. It is clear that this is an issue that must be addressed. I would say that my understanding of code on Wikipedia is between basic and intermediate. If there is someone out there that is willing to create an MLB game log template, I would greatly appreciate it. JC · Talk · Contributions 06:45, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

MLB redirect requests

There is a pending request at Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Redirects to redirect the following 10 pages to the 2017 Major League Baseball season article: 2017 National League Championship Series, 2017 American League Championship Series, 2017 National League Division Series, 2017 National League Wild Card Game, 2017 American League Division Series, 2017 American League Wild Card Game, 2017 NLCS, 2017 ALCS, 2017 ALDS, 2017 NLDS.

The reason that the anonymous user provided was, "May be developed into articles in during next season." I'm not familiar with the baseball league system all that much, so I'm not sure whether the "National League" and the "American League" are a part of "Major League Baseball". Should this request be accepted or declined? Thanks, Mz7 (talk) 02:29, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes they are part of Major League Baseball.. I dont see the need for a redirect though... red links until the articles are created is fine by me. Spanneraol (talk)

Thanks for the clarification. I've gone ahead and provisionally declined the redirect request. Mz7 (talk) 02:24, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Final appearance in MLB game

I spent a lot of time searching through Infobox's and MoS's and couldn't find anything definitive on this - is there an archived discussion on this? It seems many people consider the final MLB appearance to be regular season only while many others consider it to include all MLB appearances (postseason included). I tend to lean towards postseason included, as a "final MLB appearance" is just that - a "final regular season appearance" would be different, of course. Thoughts? FYI, this is about the infobox parameter and the reason I'm bringing this up is the numerous changes to the David Ortiz page. Garchy (talk) 15:56, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I think it is pretty obvious it is the last game they play in MLB. Not just the regular season. It seems silly not to include post season. Not to mention the section is titled Last MLB Appearance, not Last Regular-Season MLB Appearance. -DJSasso (talk) 16:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I think the same way you think, but it seems that many others (including many in WP:Baseball) don't include the postseason. Maybe it's time for a new discussion on this? Garchy (talk) 16:06, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I definitely think it should be last regular season appearance. Just using Joe DiMaggio as an example, Baseball-Reference and MLB.com both use September 30, 1951 as his final game, even though he played six games in the 1951 World Series. In my opinion, since not every player gets to play in the postseason every year, it wouldn't be appropriate to list a playoff game as their game in the infobox, especially since the infobox only lists regular season stats. Penale52 (talk) 16:08, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Then we need to change the titling of the section to Last Regular-Season MLB Appearance. Because that would be factually incorrect to call it his last MLB game since he played 6 more games after that. And whether or not every player gets to play in the post season is irrelevant since we are only talking about that specific individuals last game. -DJSasso (talk) 16:10, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

If a player's career stats in the infobox are assumed to be regular season only, the dates of debut/farewell should follow suit. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 16:25, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I would actually suggest we point that out as well. I was not aware that was only regular season until now after reading them for 10 years so I imagine other readers aren't assuming that either. Wikipedia isn't in the business of implying, we have to be factually accurate. So the titles need to change or the information. This actually brings up a good reason why stats suck in the infobox, but I suppose it is the best we have since we don't do stat sections in the articles themselves. -DJSasso (talk) 16:31, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

This has been confusing me as well - I think we should propose a change to the infobox parameter so it is titled "Last Reg-season appearance", or something similar. I agree if the other infobox stats are regular season only that this should be retained, but I still think the last appearance looks misleading with its current title. Garchy (talk) 16:45, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

To be honest it's the same in hockey, where career stat summaries separate regular season from playoffs. (I believe it was Marcel Dionne who said, when questioned about the longevity of his career versus Guy Lafleur's, not to forget that Lafleur had played a lot more post-season games than he had which don't show up in the career games played stat that is typically quoted.) For clarity to those who aren't fans of the sport, though, I think changing the headings should be considered. isaacl (talk) 17:15, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

The difference of course is that both are still listed in that case, just separately. Games played is also different than describing ones last game. But yeah, I am ok with the information staying the same as long as the headings change. -DJSasso (talk) 17:58, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

For the major North American sports leagues, it's typical for fans to default to regular season career stats (for example when they say Barry Bonds hit 762 career home runs). But it makes sense to clarify this, particularly for those not familiar with sports or post-season playoffs. isaacl (talk) 18:40, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Both Raúl A. Mondesí's article and his Baseball Reference bio list his MLB debut as October 30, 2015 (during the World Series) and not the first game he played during the 2016 regular season. So I think for consistency sake, final MLB appearances should include the postseason. —Bloom6132 (talk) 07:04, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

The standard is regular season is the "last appearance". The case of Raul Mondesi and Mark Kiger are anomalies. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:16, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

We should go by what the official sources list.. and those are almost always regular season. Spanneraol (talk) 04:50, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

After looking at The Warrior's BR bio, you're right. I stand corrected. —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:48, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree with what Spanneraol says, go with what the official sources say. The fact there is this much discussion makes me think WP:OR. — X96lee15 (talk) 21:13, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Have no problem going with the official sources, but if that is the case we need to clarify the heading to make it clear to readers, especially ones that would not be familiar with the odd usage of last game, that we are indicating regular season. And use a note for the rare cases that deviate. -DJSasso (talk) 13:27, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Exactly my issue as well - I don't care which one we go with (as long as it can be referenced), but the heading is misleading. I would propose the Infobox baseball biography template be changed to say "Last MLB season appearance" or "Last reg season MLB appearance", or something similar - I don't think we need to list both dates in the infobox but it would be nice to have it clarified. Garchy (talk) 13:48, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

I like the idea of using "MLB reg season debut" and "Last MLB reg season appearance" in the template to eliminate any confusion. Canuck^{89 (have words with me)} 20:22, October 18, 2016 (UTC)

Sand-based athletic fields

I'm not sure if this should be in your project or golf, or both? Bearian (talk) 01:37, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

World Series infobox

The infoboxes of each Year World Series article, isn't functioning properly. The previous year article link correctly go to the previous year World Series article. However the next year article link incorrectly goes to the next year MLB season article. GoodDay (talk) 13:46, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Should be fixed now. Someone was playing around with the template. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 16:04, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Looks like it was deliberately changed in the sandbox and then synched to the actual template. I added a note on the template talk page pointing to this discussion. isaacl (talk) 16:19, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

There's still some of them directing incorrectly to the following MLB seasons. GoodDay (talk) 12:48, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Did you try adding "?action=purge" to the end of the URL in order to force the page to be regenerated? isaacl (talk) 15:42, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean. GoodDay (talk) 15:46, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Visit the page in question. Then modify the web page address by adding "?action=purge" to the end of the address (without the quotes) and load the modified web page address. isaacl (talk) 15:49, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

That techno stuff is over my head. Someone else will have to handle it. GoodDay (talk) 16:21, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

For example, instead of visiting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_World_Series, visit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_World_Series?action=purge . isaacl (talk) 21:29, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

US 50,000 Challenge invite

Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/The 50,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more states than they might otherwise work on. If there's the interest I will start 1000 State Challenges like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of states regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for the US and your specialist/home state like Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon, sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every state, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any state sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thankyou.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:41, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

2017 World Baseball Classic standings

Can someone make the First round standings? I don't know how to do it. Seriesphile (talk · ctb) 03:32, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

List of Major League Baseball stadiums

Today one user decided to split List of current Major League Baseball stadiums into two separate articles – List of current Major League Baseball stadiums and List of former Major League Baseball stadiums. In my opinion the original article was perfectly fine with everything in one place. Moreover, the "former stadiums" article lacks sources and is just a list with no real value (as of now). Someone thinks that just because NFL has two separate articles, so should MLB. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS also applies in this situation. Anyone else feels the same? – Sabbatino (talk) 22:11, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Sourcing problems and additional context should be addressed regardless if the content is in a separate article or contained in another. Given the length of the list of former stadiums, it seems like a natural division to separate current stadiums from previous MLB stadiums. (If the list of former stadiums were to be reintegrated into the first article, its name ought to be changed to remove the word "current".) isaacl (talk) 06:21, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Yup, Issacl is on the ball with this one. -DJSasso (talk) 14:00, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Just wanted to see how other users feel about this separation. As long as there is an understanding – I won't have a problem with it. – Sabbatino (talk) 15:40, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

WS champion templates

If someone is on the NLCS roster and not the WS roster do they belong on the WS Champion template. There is some back and forth at this page.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:20, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

I know this isssue is fairly common. E.g., the 2016 Chicago Cubs added Kyle Schwarber to the roster for the 2016 World Series even though he had not played since April. Someone had to have been removed from the roster who was on it for the 2016 NLCS. What is our policy for such players?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:59, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Pinging the WP:MLB regs Muboshgu, Djsasso, Isaacl, Spanneraol, Bagumba, Staxringold, and Wizardman--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:59, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Pinging the involved editors Yankees10 and CRussG--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:59, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

My opinion is that only players who were on the World Series roster should be included. Spanneraol (talk) 16:07, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, only guys on the World Series roster should be there. That's the way it's been done.--Yankees10 16:18, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

That is the consensus we came to a few years ago. We haven't had cause to change it. (The player removed for Schwarber, for the record, was Rob Zastryzny. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

As I've mentioned before, personally I believe the article should follow what reliable, independent, non-promotional, notable third-party sources say. However last time the matter was discussed, as I recall this view did not gain consensus support. isaacl (talk) 16:54, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Pretty cut and dry IMO. No world series appearance, not in template. Obviously there are players who contributed big time to teams that couldn't be in the series for one reason or another, but it is what it is. If we tried to do it the opposite way it would simply be way too subjective. Wizardman 00:45, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I just needed an answer. I am not trying to change policy. There was just some edit warring and I wanted us to get it right.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:49, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

P.S. In the short term, I am sure people will be sticking WS Champ on the Rob Zastryzny page and on the page of whoever was the last guy on the NLDS roster that Rob Zastryzny took the place of for the NLCS.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:33, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
I have made changes to the Tommy La Stella, Rob Zastryzny and 2016 Chicago Cubs season pages in light of this policy.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:00, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I am of the opinion we shouldn't have these navboxes anyway so don't really have much to say on the subject. They violate WP:NAVBOX and WP:EMBED as it is just a list of people who shared a title and are only tangentially related. In that every player on the box would not be expected to be listed on every page the box is used on which is intended per navbox. -DJSasso (talk) 12:47, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I think World Series roster is a sensible, measurable standard. Staxringold _talk^contribs 23:36, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

List of expandable baseball stubs

Just FYI - I created User:EricEnfermero/MLB veteran stubs, which is just a list of baseball biography stubs where the player had a somewhat significant career. When I searched the baseball stub categories for articles that I could destub, I was always frustrated by the number of single-game or single-season player entries that probably can't be expanded much. This is a list of the players who have stub entries but who played in MLB for at least five years and at least 500 games played or 100 games pitched. I know that there are better ways to quantify a career than these arbitrary experience cutoffs, but I figured that if a player stuck around more than a few years then there was probably enough significant coverage to expand the entry.

The list ended up being pretty tedious to create, so I hope it helps someone besides me to identify articles that are ripe for expansion. I think there are some really interesting players among this group and there are definitely some potential DYKs. I just expanded Dick Hoblitzell and I'm thinking of trying to get it to 5x expansion. EricEnfermero (Talk) 11:55, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Impressive! Certainly worth going through for anyone looking for something that's actually worth expanding (more so than the cup-of-coffee guys, certainly). A few of them I recognize from my ever-growing to-do list so I'll try and knock those guys out first. Some of these names in particular I'm surprised have such small articles, certainly the majority of these can be expanded to DYK or even GA without too much difficulty. Wizardman 15:17, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Some help

For the last few weeks, Chehgarg (talk · contribs) has continuously added WS champion to both Frank Thomas (designated hitter) and Nomar Garciaparra infoboxes despite consensus that the player must be on the roster for it to be there. I left a message on his/her talk page but it was ignored. Can I get some help with this? While I don't think i'm violating 3RR as I consider this disruptive editing/vandalism, it would be nice to get some others to watch these pages.--Yankees10 19:32, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

It is not vandalism. If you look at other sports, injured players are still considered champions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chehgarg (talk • contribs) 20:05, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Good for other sports. This is a baseball consensus.--Yankees10 20:10, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

This user also broke the 3RR rule. The problem with WS stats is that they don't list other players than active roster. – Sabbatino (talk) 20:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

How should I handle this obituary?

I came across our article on former big leaguer Dave Adlesh and found it was rather disorganized at the bottom and included an unsubstantiated claim that Adlesh had died. I removed that portion of the article for the time being, but I found this obituary which is clearly about the same person and provides a little more information for the article. I am, however, unsure if this obituary is a good enough source since I found no other information to substantiate that Adlesh has died. Significantly, even his B-Ref page does not reflect his having died. Lepricavark (talk) 05:14, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

I'd say that the obit suffices, since it clearly notes him as the ballplayer, though perhaps I'd drop a line at baseball-reference and have them double-check it, since they usually catch the players without major careers pretty easily, but maybe this one slipped through the cracks. Wizardman 03:23, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Personally I'd double check it just to make sure it isn't another Bill Henry case[6] though I will admit the chances are slim for that....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 03:35, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

I've dropped B-Ref a line and I'll see what they have to say about it. Lepricavark (talk) 17:00, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

They updated it on their end, so that confirms for me the obit was legit. Wizardman 12:51, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Spring training seasons

Do spring training seasons get articles? (shouldn't they go under pre-season play of the regular season?) I noticed a pair of drafts on spring training seasons

-- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 07:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

No they don't. Both those drafts were created by an editor who was blocked for sockpuppetry....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:10, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

2017 World Baseball Classic standings

The 2017 World Baseball Classic article needs the standings for all the Pools A, B, C and D. I would make them but I don't know how to make them. Seriesphile (talk · ctb) 16:50, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Raft of templates for deletion

Notice that there are a bunch of Template:Foo Mascots baseball coach navbox templates for deletion listed at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 December 5.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:55, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Leagues in infoboxes

I'm not sure whether or not there is prior consensus for this, but if not let's get one on the books here. User:Kingryan227 is adding leagues to team listings in infoboxes (e.g. here, here, and many more on his contributions page) which I believe to be unnecessary. On my talk page he lists his reasoning as "they're foreign teams". This is the English language Wikipedia, and not the American/Canadian Wikipedia. There are English speaking people outside of Canada and America who would obviously view MLB as a foreign league. Furthermore, the infoboxes we use are not MLB-specific – they are "baseball biography" infoboxes. Either all leagues should be listed after the teams or none should, and my personal opinion is that none should be listed in the teams section of the infobox. I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying User:Yankees10 also is opposed to this, and I am hopeful that, one way or another, we can establish a consensus here. Trut-h-urts man (T • C) 22:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

"Either all leagues should be listed after the teams or none should." I heartily agree with that. We shouldn't take a U.S.-centric approach with these infoboxes. I'd be inclined to say don't put any leagues in the team section at all, but would listen to arguments for putting them by every team. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

I didn't mean to cause a big issue with this but I just feel like we should add the leagues next to the teams because I believe that it would be helpful towards anyone who is doing research on certain players as an example. If they see a team that they don't recognize, having what league they are in would be tremendously helpful for those people I feel that if I didn't know about all the leagues and everything that it would help me out a lot I am only doing it to try and assist Wikipedia members. Kingryan227 (Decrees • Acts) 23:11, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

They could easily look in the body of the article for this information. It doesn't need to take up space in the infobox.--Yankees10 23:15, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Perfectly summed up Trut-h-urts_man. Exactly my reasoning as to why they shouldn't be there.--Yankees10 23:12, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

On a related note, Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball/Player style advice currently states for post-integration era players, only teams in Major League Baseball and Nippon Professional Baseball should be listed. That being said, this aspect didn't get (to my recollection) any discussion at the time when I wrote it. Is there any consensus for adding additional leagues? isaacl (talk) 03:56, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

I see no reason to include the leagues.. anyone could simply click on the team name if they were unfamiliar with the team. And Issac, I have always thought KBO teams should also be included as that is the other league that is included in the NSPORTS guidelines. Spanneraol (talk) 13:37, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

KBO should be included in the style advice. What about CPBL? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:12, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Without going back to check, to my recollection, the player style advice was written before the KBO League was explicitly listed in the baseball notability guidelines. It makes sense to align the two. (BTW, isaacl) isaacl (talk) 18:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

I also agree that the KBO should be included, and I think the CPBL should also be included as well. I'd also like to ask @Kingryan227: to please stop adding the leagues to infoboxes until this discussion reaches a consensus. Trut-h-urts man (T • C) 00:38, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

For players that have played in one of the leagues listed in the baseball-specific notability criteria, I think the infobox should only list teams in those leagues. Accordingly I do not favour adding the CPBL. However for players who have not played in any of these leagues but have met other notability criteria, then I think the infobox should list the teams in the league(s) with which the player is most associated. What does everyone think? isaacl (talk) 01:07, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

The boxes should be consistent.. so i think it would be a mistake in that case to list Mexican League or minor league or whatever teams in that case... Stick to the ones in the notability criteria and only those... We specifically removed CPBL from the list after a discussion awhile back. Spanneraol (talk) 02:14, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Seems kinda wrong to me to not include the EDA Rhinos for Manny Ramirez, to pick one specific example. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:18, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Personally, I don't see his participation in the CPBL as being essential to include in a succinct summary of his biography. isaacl (talk) 05:38, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

It was a noteworthy step in his career. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:58, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

The first pro team signing is a noteworthy step in player careers, but for players who make the big leagues, it is overshadowed. In a similar manner, playing in this league after his major-league career is a secondary item. isaacl (talk) 18:23, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

For a player such as a career minor leaguer who satisfies the general notability guideline, I think that an essential component of a succinct summary of the player's bio is the teams or leagues with which the player is most closely associated. Perhaps a list of the associated leagues would be sufficient? I don't think this needs to be consistent with players who have been in the top leagues, where their participation in lower-level leagues is not as essential in a succinct summary. isaacl (talk) 17:52, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

While including CPBL teams in infoboxes remains up for discussion, it certainly looks to me that we are in agreement that leagues should not be included in infoboxes following teams. As it has been almost a week since anyone has offered an opinion on the situation, I am going to move forward with removing the leagues from infobox team listings, and I hope that others will join me. Trut-h-urts man (T • C) 17:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Leagues in infoboxes

I'm not sure whether or not there is prior consensus for this, but if not let's get one on the books here. User:Kingryan227 is adding leagues to team listings in infoboxes (e.g. here, here, and many more on his contributions page) which I believe to be unnecessary. On my talk page he lists his reasoning as "they're foreign teams". This is the English language Wikipedia, and not the American/Canadian Wikipedia. There are English speaking people outside of Canada and America who would obviously view MLB as a foreign league. Furthermore, the infoboxes we use are not MLB-specific – they are "baseball biography" infoboxes. Either all leagues should be listed after the teams or none should, and my personal opinion is that none should be listed in the teams section of the infobox. I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying User:Yankees10 also is opposed to this, and I am hopeful that, one way or another, we can establish a consensus here. Trut-h-urts man (T • C) 22:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

"Either all leagues should be listed after the teams or none should." I heartily agree with that. We shouldn't take a U.S.-centric approach with these infoboxes. I'd be inclined to say don't put any leagues in the team section at all, but would listen to arguments for putting them by every team. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

I didn't mean to cause a big issue with this but I just feel like we should add the leagues next to the teams because I believe that it would be helpful towards anyone who is doing research on certain players as an example. If they see a team that they don't recognize, having what league they are in would be tremendously helpful for those people I feel that if I didn't know about all the leagues and everything that it would help me out a lot I am only doing it to try and assist Wikipedia members. Kingryan227 (Decrees • Acts) 23:11, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

They could easily look in the body of the article for this information. It doesn't need to take up space in the infobox.--Yankees10 23:15, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Perfectly summed up Trut-h-urts_man. Exactly my reasoning as to why they shouldn't be there.--Yankees10 23:12, 29 November 2016 (UTC)