Talk:Wrestling/Archive 3

Archive 1

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Archive 3

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by Tanner J. Warnock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.107.36 (talk) 04:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

History

The article provides brief mention of some well-known accounts from ancient history. What about accounts from later periods -- medieval, early modern, and so on? To keep this introduction manageable in size, one possibility would be to use this page as a starting place, and then link to whole new pages entitled, for example, "Wrestling in the Ancient World," "Wrestling in the Medieval World," and so on. Joseph Svinth 08:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

OLA ER KJEKK <3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.147.38.62 (talk) 09:52, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

First, I want to commend you on the time and work you put into the article; the content and grammer contributions were substantial.

(POV warning) - I believe the inclusion of historical accounts of 'wrestling' after the word 'wrestling' was inserted into the English language (1100 AD) not necessary. Wrestling is a very difficult concept to define in wikipedia because the topic is so broad and the concept is so old. To give the article scope and direction, I believe the litmus test for the insertion of historical accounts of wrestling to be whether they occurred before or after the word 'wrestling' was acknowledged and accepted into the English Language. Historical accounts prior to 1100 AD(ish) were considered historical accounts that shaped the word 'wrestling'. Historical accounts after 1100 AD(ish) were considered historical accounts derived from the word 'wrestling'; and these later examples should be covered in their respective folk wrestling article. This approach allowed the article to avoid the slippery slope of deciding which modern accounts of wrestling (which there are a lot) should or should not be included in the article. International disciplines of wrestling were exempt from this rule. Penciljunk 12:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Image:Eakins, Thomas (1844-1916) - 1883 - Eakins' art studens wrestling in the nude.jpg

I have no trouble with your viewpoint. I was just thinking that "Wrestling," per se, should say something like "Wrestling is a combat sport done worldwide by most cultures. It is a sport usually done by two opponents in an agreed-upon area. Techniques usually feature gripping, throwing, and holding down, but usually discourage kicks, punches, and headbutts. Wrestling can be done nearly naked (Nuba fighting), nearly naked with belts (sumo), with jackets and belts (sambo and judo), or with special wrestling costumes (schwingen). In traditional society, wrestling events are often associated with Festival (e.g., Duesshera, Muharram, Carnival, harvest festivals, and equivalent events). Wrestling events have also been associated with competitions between individuals or institutions wealthy enough to afford teams of wrestlers (e.g., Mughul wrestling, Tokugawa-era sumo, and US collegiate freestyle), muscular theater (e.g., professional wrestling), nationalism (e.g., Turnvereine and the International Olympics), and military training (military combatives)." In other words, this entry should provide a dictionary-style definition (admittedly, a contentious task in itself), and then promptly move out to appropriately brief discussions of the internationally recognized types. In this scenario, Folkstyle would be reduced to linking to a separate page that provides the FILA definition, that links to all known folkstyle types listed at Wikipedia. As for History, I'd eliminate Ancient, too, and move it to another section called "Histories of Wrestling" or some such, and then, from there link to articles on Wrestling in the Ancient World, Wrestling in Medieval Guild Associations, Wrestling in Mughul India, Wrestling in the Turnvereine, or whatever. That way, if you're interested in Beach Wrestling, you won't get bogged down in tedious discussions of what distinguishes Ar Gouren from Scottish backhold, whereas if you are interested in what distinguishes Ar Gouren from Scottish backhold, then you have a starting place for further reading and research. Joseph Svinth 02:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

You make some valid points. I really like your first few statements prior to sentence starting with In this scenario.... There is some good general concepts that would greatly benefit the article. Maybe it is late and I am tired, but how does the sentence In this scenario,... differ from what the article looks like now? And could you also expand on getting rid of the 'ancient' concept, I may not be following your train of thought. Penciljunk 02:50, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

What I'm thinking is that "Wrestling" becomes a portal page that provides a brief (albeit potentially contentious) definition of wrestling itself, links to the major styles (e.g., the styles recognized by FILA plus professional wrestling) and then provides links to other portal pages and/or topics of related interest. Let's take an example. Assume, for the moment, that you are interested in Tudor-era sports and games, to include wrestling. Elizabethan Era gives the topic a passing mention, and that's it. And, as you correctly note, Wrestling has no place for that story. But, were there to be a separate page specifically titled "Early Modern European Wrestling" (or some catchier title), then there would be a place to mention that famous wrestling match between Kings Francis and Henry (French sources report Francis won), or at least link to Cornish wrestling (the style of Henry VIII)[1] and Ar Gouren (the style of Francis). [2]. As for what happens after "in this scenario"? Basically, nothing. The article would simply go straight from "Etymology" to "Wrestling Disciplines". Then, at the bottom, there would be a new subhead called "Wrestling History". Underneath that, a paragraph is inserted that says, for example, that wrestling has been practiced almost everywhere in the world, for about as long as anybody has been writing stories or making artwork, and then links to a currently non-existant Wikipedia page called "Wrestling History" or equivalent title. The new "Wrestling History" page in turn becomes the portal page for articles specifically about the history and traditions of wrestling, either by time period ("Early Modern", "Ancient", etc.) or by individual folkstyle. I know, most of those pages don't exist yet (and the ones that do require lots of work), but this way, at least we're acknowledging that we are aware of the problem.Joseph Svinth 07:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Changes 7/31/2007

This is my first time editing a wikipedia page. I am an unapologetic wrestling nerd, so I wanted to help clean up the article just a bit. Here are the noteworthy changes:

• Inserted an explanation of the new Greco-Roman rules. Not sure if this is important in context, but the recent rule changes are among the most radical in the last few decades and dramatically alter the focus of this sport, for athletes, coaches, and fans alike.

• Removed references to prominent freestyle wrestlers. While Dan Gable and Cael Sanderson are American wrestling icons, their freestyle careers were relatively brief, and I have never in my wrestling life heard of James Owen.

• Deleted the wrestling in military training section.

• Added a brief explanation addressing the boundary between professional wrestling from the other types.

• Revamped the wrestling/MMA section.

Since I am new to this, I am not sure how to deal with formatting. I am hoping someone can come in behind me and cover anything I screwed up in that department.

As one of humanity's basic instincts and enduring traditions, I think wrestling really deserves a quality, informative page.

I think you made some good additions, be sure to sign your name by ending your comments (on the edit page) with four consecutive tildes "~". Penciljunk 15:39, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I am an unapologetic wrestling nerd as well and I didn't realize how vast the topic of 'wrestling' really is. The structure I thought worked best for this article was to have two parts; 'Wrestling' as it was defined prior to the English Language and 'Wrestling' as it was defined in the English speaking world. Keep up the good work! Penciljunk 15:39, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Folk Style Wrestling Diciplines

The header contains this text

There are almost as many folk wrestling styles as there are national traditions, because folk wrestling describes a traditional form of wrestling unique to a culture or geographic region of the world. Folk wrestling styles are not yet recognized Internationally. The following list provides examples of wrestling systems that fall into this category.

Then the table then includeds Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as a 'folk style'. There are international BJJ compertitions so how does that work? --Nate1481( ^t/_c) 12:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe the qualifier for a Wrestling dicipline to be promoted from a folk-style dicipline to an International dicipline is left in the hands of the International Federation of Associated Wrestling Styles, or equavalent governing body should one arise. Penciljunk 15:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

It might be worth clarifying that these are FILA's standards not definitive ones then. --Nate1481( ^t/_c) 16:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

It is noted. Penciljunk 17:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I just added it, but didn't have time to update here sorry. --Nate1481( ^t/_c) 08:41, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Why you are here Nate1481, under International Styles of Wrestling there is a link to both submission wrestling and grappling. Because the grappling page does not support the the definition being used here in wrestling, it makes things a little confussing. Do you have any qualms with removing the reference to the grappling page? Or maybe we should move the reference to the grappling page to the bottom under 'see other'? Penciljunk 17:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

It does note the definition used by FILA (just bellow the main section of the lead) but doesn't have it a main theme as that definition is far more restrictive. Some note on the link that there are other definitions of grappling would be a good idea, for clarity, but removing the link would seem inaccurate--Nate1481( ^t/_c) 08:41, 15 August 2007 (UTC).

Failed "good article" nomination

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of August 15, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: No, the lead is too short, please see WP:LEAD for help.

2. Factually accurate?: Slightly no, there are some {{fact}} tags and many sections have no citations at all.

3. Broad in coverage?: No, history section is way too short in my opinion, what about wrestling from the Roman Empire-present? Discipline subsections need to be expanded, information can be found in their main articles.

4. Neutral point of view?: No, sentences like "Wrestling has gained respect among martial arts practitioners" and "Wrestling's popularity has grown so much that market demands for staged wrestling" without citations are POV. There is US centric POV by mentioning folk styles used in the US but not going in depth about the styles from other countries.

5. Article stability? Yes

6. Images?: No, images need to be formatted better as to not make the article look cluttered.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you for your work so far. — T Rex | talk 02:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Auto review

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Obvious one I can see is the info box would {{Infobox_martial_art}} work? --Nate1481( ^t/_c) 15:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Pin

Re the sentence 'In Freestyle, one's back cannot be on the mat for more than two seconds otherwise it is considered a pin, regardless of the location of the shoulders and provides many techniques that folk style wrestling would consider "stalling"'.

1. the 'two seconds' requirement is unsupported by the cited reference[3]

2. the rest of the sentence is unclear as to what is meant.

--David Broadfoot (talk) 14:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Having competed in freestyle wrestling for several years, I can definitely say that the 2 second thing is wrong. That particular rule is for folkstyle wrestling. In freestyle and greco, it's a pin if your shoulders hit the mat at all, regardless of how long. I'd suspect the second part is referring to the ability of a bottom wrestler to simply flatten out and do nothing in hopes of a standup (common/encouraged in both freestyle and greco), whereas one would get flagged for stalling for doing that in folkstyle. But I'm not 100% sure; that's not a particularly good sentence. Gromlakh (talk) 14:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Re-read the FILA rules. While commonly enforced as a pin, the "touch fall" is a myth(at least according to the rulebook). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.238.117.132 (talk) 07:58, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Fake

I know it is fake, but were does it say? TK(film) (talk) 17:51, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Only one form of wrestling is fake, and it says so right here: Wrestling#Professional_wrestling. --David from Downunder (talk) 09:55, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Professional wrestling is not fake. It actually is scripted therefore dismissing the fact it's fake. Mr. C.C. (talk) 20:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Is real wrestling shown on tv, the kind where people get hurt for real? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.132.197 (talk) 23:56, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

The main article does not refer to "fake" wrestling. However, there are differences between "WWE-style" wrestling and wrestling in the Olympics, even though both can be seen on TV. Lithmus Today (talk) 01:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Protection

I have requested indefinite semi-protection on this article due to all the long-term vandalism. --David from Downunder (talk) 09:55, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Professional wrestling includes more than "WWE-style" and other styles of "entertainment-wrestling"

From the edited paragraph regarding professional wrestling :

"Modern professional wrestling, generally refers to "WWE-style" wrestling ( as opposed to the wrestling fought by professionals and amateurs within traditional wrestling ) which has predetermined outcomes and in some promotions, "feuds" are used to build up a championship match."

( Incidentally, Jon Rønningen was offered a contract with a professional team in W.Germany. And that definitely was not "WWE-style" wrestling. )

The "wrestling-article" needs an outlook that does not equate "professional wrestling" with "wrestlemania".

Perhaps, a seperate paragraph about "professional wrestling within traditional wrestling",would be an improvement? Lithmus Today (talk) 23:39, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Text removed from "Mixed martial arts competion"-paragraph

The following text was removed:

"In early competitions (e.g. UFC, Vale Tudo ) more wrestlers defeat stylists from traditional striking (and grappling) oriented styles such as boxing, judo, tae kwon do, karate, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and kickboxing. Considering only the first twelve UFC (few limited number of rules, no weight classes or weight limits and unlimited rounds ), amateur wrestling won tournaments UFC 5, UFC 6, UFC 8, UFC 9, UFC 10, UFC 12. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioners won UFC 1, UFC 2, UFC 4."

(Note: there is still a reference to these competitions : UFC 5, UFC 6, UFC 8, UFC 9, UFC 10, UFC 12. )

Reasons for removing text:

• amateur wrestling did not win contests. However, FIGHTERS who were/had been accomplished wrestlers did win ...

(There is no martial art, that is superior to any other martial art in EVERY WAY. )

• That was actually not stated in the text above. It was just stated that fighters with wrestling/grappling backgrounds tend to win over practioners of other (mostly striking based) martial arts/systems in early MMA events.--Peterkenen (talk) 21:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• The reference to Valetudo is vague, and therefore unclear. ( Are the early Valetudo fights in BRAZIL, included as "early competitions", or only the early fights in the U.S. ?

• "The early" UFC-tournaments have been criticised regarding the THE PROCESS of selecting contestants.

• Can you explain more definitely?--Peterkenen (talk) 21:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• The text is debatable.
• The text might be more relavant in an article about UFC ? Cheers, Lithmus Today (talk) 01:22, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I think it was still correct to put that wrestling is still one of the most dominant styles in MMA competitions.--Peterkenen (talk) 21:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Notability of commemorative coin, pertaining to the general subject of wrestling.

One expects to remove the following text in about half a week :

"Wrestling events have been selected as a main motif in numerous collectors' coins. One of the recent samples is the €10 Greek Wrestling commemorative coin, minted in 2003 to commemorate the 2004 Summer Olympics. On the obverse of the coin, a modern athlete applies a waist-hold on his opponent and prepares to throw him down to the ground, while in the background two ancient athletes are pictured in the stance known as akrocheirismos (finger-hold) and are pushing their heads against each other."

Reasoning : This article is about wrestling, not where one can find images of wrestling.

Some of the most prominent images of wrestling, might warrant inclusion into this article, as an image.

The mentioned coin, does not strike me as prominent to such a degree, that it warrants a description,or mention, in the "See also" section.

The mentioned text, has the feel of a blurb, from someone who owns, or sells, this coin.

The image of the coin, I expect not to remove. However, I will not object to someone else removing it. Cheers, Lithmus Today (talk) 22:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I was the one that added the comment and of course you should expect me to disagree with you. I do believe it shows the notability of the sport from a different angle (12 sports were chosen for the coins minted in Athens 2004, Wrestling was one of them). Nevertheless, I am ok to alter the text or remove it completely and leave the image, but the description of the image will need to change slightly to comply with the fair-use rationale. Miguel.mateo (talk) 03:59, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

The current image, and the text underneath, one considers acceptable. And thanks for having uploaded it. Lithmus Today (talk) 17:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Your recent changes are absolutely fine with me, I just changed the layout a bit to better look and fixed some gramar problems. Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk)

There is now a "Wrestling history"-article.

There seems to have been a need for a seperate article regarding the history of wrestling, one thinks.
It includes points such as "wrestling in Mesopotamia", etc.

I have no reason to believe that there exists a wiki article named "the history of wrestling".

There is a history section in this article.
There is a history section in articles about greco-roman -, freestyle -, sambo, submission wrestling, glima, and other wrestling styles.
If one, or more, of these sections, become too large, then there might be a need for a seperate article such as "the history of wrestling".

• Also, I expect to gather a list of historical facts, which possibly should be in a "new" article, such as I have mentioned.
  

I expect to clarify reasons for the above. ASAP (as soon as possible).
(work in progress!)

Regards,No fiction pls (talk) 01:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion: The introductory text, can be expanded,as follows.

The below has been rectified (in the new "mythology-section").

The following text ought to be added to the introduction( at the very end of the introduction).

"Some of the earliest references to wrestling, can be found in wrestling mythology."

• Are there any misgivings? (If no misgivings, please, anybody, add the suggested text, into the very end, of the "introduction-paragraph"). (I am not authorized to make edits pertaining to the "wrestling-article".)

Regards, No fiction pls (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

After the "article-introduction", the order of the sections ought to be ...

==Mythology==
==History==

Would the above, be acceptable for this article?

Mythology

{{editsemiprotected}} The following quote (and its paragraph) ought to be moved :

"The Mahabharata, one of the major Sanskrit epics of ancient India, describes the encounter between the accomplished wrestlers Bhima and Jarasandha;" The above text arguably does not belong in the history section.
1. It arguably belongs in a the "mythology-section" (that has not been created, yet). And/or:
2. It arguably belongs also has been copied into the "Wrestling mythology"-article

• Creating a Suggested text for the "Mythology-section": is that acceptable or not?
  

(Perhaps something similar to the following:

===Wrestling Mythology===

Main article: Wrestling mythology

References to wrestling, can be found in the Mahabharata (one of the major Sanskrit epics of ancient India), the Epic of Gilgamesh (Sumerian literature ... " )

Regards, No fiction pls (talk) 01:59, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

(The context of the following comment, has been removed.

 Done. Thanks, Martin 14:57, 5 January 2009 (UTC) )

Low priority edits

The below, has been rectified :

{{editsemiprotected}}

"Friezes" ought to be linked to "frieze". (History-section ) No fiction pls (talk) 11:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

 Done ty. --Unpopular Opinion (talk) 13:00, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

There is now a "wrestling mythology"-article

At some point, there might be a There seems to have been a need for a seperate article regarding the mythology of wrestling, one thinks.
It might includes points such as "wrestling in old Norse mythology, etc.

Does anyone have misgivings, regarding the above? No fiction pls (talk) 06:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Walking on to a college Wrestling team

Walking on to a collegiate wrestling team can be quite difficult as opposed to other sports. There are no “professional” wrestling teams therefore the cream of the crop is at the collegiate level. Often times wrestling teams’ receive 10.5 scholarships to split up between a complete roster; which typically holds around 20-25 members. There are typically four to five members on the team that have full scholarships and the rest of the team are under partial scholarships. Being that the space on the team is limited, scholarship money is tight, and there are so many high school wrestlers that are off to college, you better believe the ones that are on the team from recruiting are the best out there. To come into the room and prove ones self worthy is saying much with these standards; especially being that there are no “free” slots or “fill” slots like NCAA football where they have room and money to put people that are decent onto the roster to fill roster space. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.87.110 (talk) 20:04, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

interwiki

Can you please add the Japanese interwiki for this page: ja:レスリング. Thanks.--Afaz (talk) 05:52, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Nutrition

I have added the sports nutrition section because i feel it is important to underline how demanding wrestling is. In addition it is necessary for sports pages to explain the necessary requirement of nutrients to keep bodies healthy. Please add on to the section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nutritionfan (talk • contribs) 03:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I didn't delete your section, but it is ridiculous. This section seems to be addressed to the practice of cutting weight in various forms of wrestling (which isn't going anywhere). Do most people doubt that any form of wrestling is demanding? Let them wrestle someone (much less a trained/experienced wrestler). The precise nutritional needs of a particular sport are certainly beyond the scope of encyclopedic article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.84.73.70 (talk) 07:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC) TheBeat 94.5 Vancouver's #1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.151.6 (talk) 11:05, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Edit request from 96.28.238.80, 3 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} At the top of the article, it says:

For other uses, see The Wrestler. For the documentary film, see Wrestling (documentary).

These are backwards. Please fix this. My OCD is killing me.

96.28.238.80 (talk) 00:39, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Done  Chzz  ►  01:28, 3 May 2010 (UTC)  Done

wrestling is not martial art.

Terminology “Martial art” is artificial product of 16-17 century. It is incorrectly and misleading to call wrestling as MA for lot of reason.

Should be MA changed to combat challenge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NZSambo (talk • contribs) 08:55, 16 May 2010 (UTC) How about you try to construct a coherent sentence and try again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.213.33 (talk) 02:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Even if the term "martial arts" was only invented in the 16-17th centuries, that doesn't mean it can't refer to something that existed earlier. Think of terms like the "ancient world": one has to assume people in 700 BC didn't call themselves ancient, but that doesn't mean that the word "ancient" isn't useful for anything, or refers to something that doesn't really exist.

Saying "Wrestling is a martial art[citation needed]" is like saying "Green is a color[citation needed]". The citation that tells you wrestling is a martial art is simply the definition of a martial art (or, if you prefer, Wikipedia's article on Martial arts, which talks about wrestling.) Perhaps you could make up a word that refers to all colors except green, but if you did, what good would it be? 68.231.190.241 (talk) 06:57, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Grappling is part of wrestling.

Grappling application is part of wrestling not oposite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NZSambo (talk • contribs) 08:59, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Is this comment related to the bit in "etymology" where it claims that wrestling and grappling are not synonyms? The link referenced in the citation does not actually support this claim (it doesn't list wrestling (noun) at all; it lists wrestle (verb) and says that grapple is indeed a synonym). Even if it were actually true, I don't see how this statement is germane. Untrue + irrelevant = remove. I'll do that. 71.130.91.78 (talk) 00:41, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Pending changes

This article is one of a small number (about 100) selected for the first week of the trial of the Wikipedia:Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Wikipedia:Pending changes/Queue are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.

The following request appears on that page:

However with only a few hours to go, comments have only been made on two of the pages.

Please update the Queue page as appropriate.

Note that I am not involved in this project any more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially.

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 20:52, 15 June 2010 (UTC).

-- I vote for keeping as much protection on the article as possible, as it gets vandalized pretty regularly. Joseph Svinth (talk) 02:23, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Even the wrestling topic is anti-American. It's astounding. "Outside the U.S., one can find..." What the hell is that? Sad that the euro fascists have appropriated yet another American innovation like wiki. I wish they would get their own toys if they hate us so much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.72.137.46 (talk) 23:30, 27 June 2010 (UTC) Take your inferiority complex somewhere else. smileyyyy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.209.17.254 (talk) 22:18, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Updates to "Beach Wrestling" section

This is a great page, and I can tell many people have worked hard on developing "Wrestling". The sport of Beach Wrestling is classified as a "developing sport" and the rules have changed over the years. Some constructive changes to this page may include:

-Beach Wrestling is also referred to as "Sand Wrestling".

-Beach Wrestling was developed to bring various national wrestling styles together, especially in underdeveloped countries. The rules are simple to encourage participation. Beach Wrestling is also regarded as the oldest version of wrestling, getting back to wrestling's roots before the use of wrestling mats just over 100 years ago.

-A Beach Wrestling match is one 3-minute round. An athlete can win if they can pin their opponent by forcing any portion of their back to the sand. Some countries require both shoulders to contact the sand, as the rules were originally written in 2004.

-Wrestlers can also win by scoring two points. One point is awarded for pushing their opponent out-of-bounds; a wrestler is out-of-bounds if any part of their body goes beyond, underneath, or on top of the ring's parimeter. One point is awarded when a wrestler earns a takedown, although some countries still award a point if any part of their opponent's body touches the sand as originally written in 2004.

-There are 4 international weight classes for Senior Men athletes: 70 kg (154 lbs), 80 kg (176 lbs), 90 kg (198 lbs), and Heavyweight (over-90 kg/ over-198 lbs). Senior Women have 3 international weight classes: 60 kg (132 lbs), 70 kg (154 lbs), and Heavyweight (over-70 kg/ over-154 lbs). There is no maximum weight restrictions to compete in the Heavyweight class. Other weight classes may be used, such as "Easy System" with youth tournaments or with Team Duals.

I have more suggestions, but would like to get feedback on what I've suggested so far. Thank you very much. RTeet (talk) 04:17, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Lshysfo

Laughing so hard your sumbraro falls off! :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Simodudewrestle15 (talk • contribs) 04:11, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Origin of the word "pehlivan"

In the section of Oil wrestling, the word pehlivan meaning "champion" (or "hero") comes from the word Pahlevan (Persian: پهلوان), so I'd like to ask to edit this sentence to the following, so that the origins are clear.

The wrestlers, known as pehlivan meaning "champion" or "hero" (from Pahlevan (Persian: پهلوان)) wear a type of hand-stitched lederhosen called a kispet, which are traditionally made of water buffalo hide, and most recently have been made of calfskin.

Reference (In Persian): Pahlevan (پهلوان)

Cscat (talk) 16:39, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source. Can you find a reliable source for this? Ryan Vesey Review me! 04:05, 17 July 2012 (UTC)