Talk:Wrestling

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 September 2018 and 5 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dlv7.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:09, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 18 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mireyda24.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:09, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Request to fix red link

Red link in Folk Style disciplines section to [[Cumberland wrestling]] - Cumberland Wrestling would fix.

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 13:10, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Please change [[Cumberland wrestling]] to [[Cumberland Wrestling]] in the section Folk Style disciplines

 Done - although as Cumberland Wrestling is a redirect to Cumberland and Westmorland wrestling would this be a better description? - Arjayay (talk) 14:24, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll leave the call on Cumberland Wrestling or Cumberland and Westmorland wrestling to someone with more knowledge than mine. Visiting IP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.153.147.241 (talk) 14:29, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

The "Great" Sohrab Khan

Regarding: User:Siddiquekhan1978

He may be working on something nice. Could someone give him a hand? Oh, and if anything is a copyvio, please say. Content from Blogspot or Facebook doesn't come up in searches from where I am.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:50, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, it turns out it was probably a hoax and is now deleted. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:32, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2015

Evawwe11 (talk) 05:58, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 07:11, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Origins

The statement "The origins of wrestling go back 15,000 years through cave drawings in France" requires a citation, but you won't find any respectable scholarly work that supports this view, not even close. Kileytoo (talk) 19:37, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2016

183.82.98.74 (talk) 14:31, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 14:40, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2016

Please change "[citation needed]" in "The settlers also found wrestling to be popular among Native Americans.[citation needed]" and reference page 123 of The Native American Identity in Sports: Creating and Preserving a Culture By Frank A. Salamone. Page 123 confirms the statement aforementioned in the wiki article, stating "There are accounts of Native American wrestling reaching back to the earliest contacts between Europeans and Native Americans." (Salamone, 123). Turiyasega (talk) 02:30, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Done - Thank you for your contribution to Wikipedia  fredgandt 22:16, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2017

199.185.67.2 (talk) 21:53, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Stickee (talk) 01:18, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Competitive Pro wrestling?

"Professional competitive wrestling is uncommon.[citation needed]" - I'm not even sure what that statement means. If it means that 'grecko-roman' or other styles of wrestling are scarcely deemed to be professional; I wouldn't agree; as I cannot find a single reference to a match that was deemed to be professional. If it means that professional wrestling is uncommon, this is also untrue. It's also not true that competition in professional wrestling is uncommon; as there are "shoot" professional wrestling matches.

The article also mentions 'Anglo-American' Wrestling, as the title for traditional professional wrestling. Professional wrestling originated from Europe; and owes it's history a lot more to Joint Promotions; than America. I feel as though this part of the article is very POV against pro wrestling. It also can't be said that GFW, ROH and WWE organise professional wrestling; as that would imply that they are governing bodies; wheras they are independent companies (Even with worldwide appeal). They have no organisation over other wrestling in the country, other than those that they are affilated with (Say, EVOLVE). Lee Vilenski(talk) 15:53, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2017

[12/11/17]

edit request #1 article: Wrestling Under: HISTORY:

Change: "Literary references to it occur as early as in the ancient Indian Vedas. The Iliad contains references, in which Homer recounts the Trojan War of the 13th or 12th century BC"

To:"Literary references to it occur as early as the Hebrew Bible and ancient Indian Vedas. In The Bible the patriarch Jacob is said to have wrestled with an angel (or, with God)[citation #A], and one of his wives, Rachel, uses a female-wrestling metaphor.[citation #B] The Iliad contains references, in which Homer recounts the Trojan War of the 13th or 12th century BC"

[citation #A] Genesis 32:24-32. [citation #B] Genesis 30:8.

Edit request #2 article: Wrestling Under: By COUNTRY:

Change:

   "In Pharaonic Egypt, wrestling has been evidenced by documentation on tombs (circa 2300 BC) and Egyptian artwork (2000-1085 BC).
   Greek wrestling was a popular form of martial art, at least in Ancient Greece (about 1100 to 146 BC).[4]"

To: "In Pharaonic Egypt, wrestling has been evidenced by documentation on tombs (circa 2300 BC) and Egyptian artwork (2000-1085 BC). In Harran, (between Syria and Turkey), and in Canaan (Israel) Jacob and his wife Rachel display familiarity with male and female wrestling (1750-1730 BC).[citation #C] Greek wrestling was a popular form of martial art, at least in Ancient Greece (about 1100 to 146 BC).[4]"

[citation #C] Genesis 28:1-10, 29:1-4, 30:8, 31:18, 32:22, 32:24-32.

The reason for these requests is for the sake of additional completeness, not subtracting anything. Also, because the painting depicting Jacob wrestling with the angel is on the article page, but, without supplying the specific reference citation in the Bible text in which the event depicted can be found, nor, the references indicating the countries in which the events occurred.

Thanks William E Russell Wierderandwierder (talk) 06:20, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

@Wierderandwierder:  Not done. A typical edit request is going to be about a wrong year, a misspelled word, a sentence that needs to be moved to a different paragraph, and so on. This is a huge edit and you're on the right track to where you can add it yourself.

Semi-protection means that users who aren't autoconfirmed are locked out. To get autoconfirmed, you need to have ten edits on an account that's older than four days. Right now, you're at three edits and you set up this account over two and a half years ago. Seven more edits and you'll be good to go. The reason I'd rather you take this route? Because you can use those seven edits to edit unprotected articles, figure out how things work, learn to collaborate with others, and just basically get better through experience. I'm looking at this edit and I'm just thinking that it wouldn't be right for me (or anybody else) to add this to the article. That should be your username in the edit history. You deserve it for making such a big effort to improve this page, and getting autoconfirmed is how you do that. CityOfSilver 07:14, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

(moved from my talk CityOfSilver)

From: Wierderandwierder To: CityOfSilver Re: edit of "Wrestling" page

From: Wierderandwierder

To: CityOfSilver

Re: edit of "Wrestling" page

Thanks for your response and comments.

With all due respect sir:

All I am attempting to do is make the page more complete with minimal wasted time, in the case other users would be interested to have slightly more well-rounded information on the history of wrestling. I came across the information by accident while doing other research, looked up Wrestling on Wiki, and noticed the article did not include it, so interrupted myself and attempted to add it. If you do not wish to add it only for protocol reasons, your choice. Since when it is ever a good choice to exclude relevant and verifiable information? I am completely uninterested in getting credit for my Wiki contributions, and do not have time to get involved in collaborating with other wiki editors, same as nearly none of them are interested in collaborating with me. I am only interested in making as sure as possible future users of the page are aware of the data point I found in the case it would be useful to them as it was to me. Isn't THAT the point & purpose? If you feel the edit should be inserted differently or worded differently, be my guest. Take credit for the edit yourself; be my guest. Who gets credit is not important, at least not to me; the point is to improve the page. I do not attempt to edit Wiki often, because usually the Wiki pages are already more complete than my own knowledge base is, thus the point of using it. If I am required to wait to do seven more edits to unprotected pages before a completely verifiable edit to this or any other protected page is allowed, then it would never occur for many years; then I am sure there would be some OTHER protocol reason to deny that one, too, am I right? Obviously there are reasons for the page to be protected from editing if people have been subtracting sense or adding nonsense or otherwise vandalizing the page. My condolences. However, this attempted edit is not an act of vandalism, nor is the data unsourced. My inexperience editing Wiki pages is as far as I can tell completely irrelevant. Most editors of Wiki are not experts. My research involves having written over 60,000 pages over the last 30 years. This is by comparison an extremely minuscule edit. Your criticism is about protocol, not about the verifiability and correctness of the data. I am sure Wiki develops its edit policies for reasons its staff feel are justified, but surely their purpose is not to thwart the very reason for Wiki's existence, which is to allow people to contribute what they know in an efficient effective manner, so that others can make use of it when upon reading it, they realize it is relevant for their particular purpose. If not, I should stop contributing and time for someone to start a new Wiki. With a different name and trademark, of course.

Nothing personal. I eagerly await your well-reasoned response.

Thanks

William E Russell

Jurupa Valley, Ca — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wierderandwierder (talk • contribs) 03:19, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

@Wierderandwierder: If I were to compress my first response up there, it would advise you to put in more effort to make your edit happen. At this point, you've put in a bunch more effort. This page is not semi-protected to prevent edits like yours so I'm going to try to add it bit by bit, knowing full well that the result might either get corrected or reverted by another editor.

My approach to these sorts of edits is always the same: decline and ask the editor to get autoconfirmed. This is for two reasons. I already gave one, which is that autoconfirmation is intended to improve new users' editing. But there's another reason, and it's a little selfish: if I encounter a novice who wants to add a substantial, beneficial edit, it's probably someone who could improve the site long-term. If you edit more, you'll get better but you also might come to realize why so many of us stick around. This site is old, it's permanently prone to criticism, and it's easy to get overwhelmed by its ways of doing things, which at turns can be arcane, hypocritical, obsolete, grotesque, self-defeating, and absurd. And yet, here we all still are. You've "written over 60,000 pages over the last 30 years"? I don't know what your area of expertise is but I bet, somewhere and somehow, there's an extensive rebuttal to your belief that "usually the Wiki pages are already more complete than my own knowledge base". There are tons of pages on here that are terrible. (And, for that matter, there are tons of pages that should exist but don't.) If a new user is showing tons of potential, I try to depict Wikipedia as intriguing rather than repulsive. I seem to have accomplished the exact opposite here, and that sucks. I hope you'll reconsider. CityOfSilver 19:15, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

@Wierderandwierder:  Done. The additions you sought have been added, although with several differences. I think the most consequential was my change of your term "Hebrew Bible" to "Old Testament" since the Hebrew Bible is a distinct document from what you seem to have used, the Hebrew scriptures of the Christian Bible. This is what I mean when I say that collaboration and cooperation are key: this process is unfinished until you've weighed in. For that matter, I really think we need a reliable source for the time period (1750-1730 BC) in the second change because those years can't have been numbered in Genesis like that. CityOfSilver 19:34, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2018

A section on Shuai Jiao should be included. It is the grappling martial art of China and an integral part of Sanda. Notable Shuai Jiao fighters include Grandmaster Chang Tung Shen, Master David C.K. Lin, John Wang (World Champion of Shuai Jiao in the early 80's) from Combat Shuai Jiao (http://www.combatshuaichiao.com/). 70.112.148.206 (talk) 00:28, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Already done The section "By Country" already lists: "Shuai jiao, a wrestling style originating in China, which according to legend, has a reported history of over 4,000 years." This is linked to the Shuai jiao article which provides more details. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:30, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Professional wrestling section

I have tagged the following line An alternate version of traditional wrestling is professional wrestling. Wrestling in this style is often concluded in a raised ring; akin to boxing; and have pre-determined winners. This line is unsourced and as far as I can tell its inaccurate. What makes it an alternate version? There may be some moves that cross over but to say its an alternate version is extremely misleading. A ladder match involves zero traditional wrestling holds or techniques but is considered professional wrestling. One is an athletic competition the other is scripted entertainment. Saying its an alternate version is a stretch and misleading. - Galatz^Talk 15:36, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Variations

Beach wrestling is also commonly known as sand wrestling. 213.149.61.112 (talk) 14:30, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2018

spelling correction In Puroresu section ... Please change "realistic sporting comepetition" to "realistic sporting competition" HaydonBerrow (talk) 13:08, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

 Done --DannyS712 (talk) 18:51, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

sport?

how can you say it's all a sport and not a martial art. this seems deeply biased. i do wrestling as a martial art, not a sport, and i assure you, it is wrestling, nothing else, and definitely an art not a sport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.175.235 (talk) 09:21, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Popular Wrestlers, stars

The article has several places where one or more wrestling stars are listed. This is good. But, each wrestler is in the game for a limited time, years or decades. Sampling less than a dozen of them, I see Debut dates from 1934 thru 2000, with some lasting more than 30 years.

Given that Wikipedia pages will exist for decades or centuries into the future, each star should be labeled with some approximate idea of when they were wrestling, or when they were popular, eg (early 1960s) or (1930s - 1970s). Doesn't have to be very precise; I just want to know why nobody's talking about Shohei Baba anymore (retired 1998; died 1999) when I read it in 2030. OsamaBinLogin (talk) 22:04, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

'History' section gallery

Hi,

As the page is quite cluttered I propose having a gallery for the 'History' section. The majority of the historical images can be put into the gallery which will mean that the page is tidier and easier to read through. The modern day photos seem more or less fine where they are so I do not think there is a need for a modern gallery. Any suggestions or objections? Thanks.RickyBennison (talk) 22:13, 9 August 2020 (UTC)