Talk:Thirsty (song)

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Good articleThirsty (song) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
July 21, 2014Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on May 18, 2014.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that rapper Rich Homie Quan is featured on Mariah Carey's song "Thirsty"?

Are there two versions?[edit]

There seems to be a solo version and a rap chorus by Rich Homie Quan?  — ₳aron 10:43, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There's a solo version that's about 3:25 with only Carey's vocals (there's also a background male voice throughout the chorus 'you know you thirs-tay'). The version with Rich is about 2:41, and has him do the second verse. The background male voice is in both versions. It also appears Carey will release a third version tomorrow, a 'remix' version.--PeterGriffin • Talk2Me 22:07, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's for "Beautiful"  — ₳aron 15:53, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Reviews[edit]

Single[edit]

I think we have a Lovebird situation here. "Thirsty" is quite clearly the next single, Mariah's confirmed it. She is not concerned with putting singles onto iTunes etc and has said she isn't doing that because of the "hearing it as a body of work" thing. It may be the same day the album drops, but to me it just looks like an Impact day release, without the standalone digital release. Singers are increasingly doing this now. Critics are calling it a single, Mariah has confirmed it is a single, media publications are giving a date for "Thirsty", not the album. She has managed to release it in every format apart from digital download.  — ₳aron 19:49, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

She never said she was not releasing singles on iTunes because of it being a body of work. that's WP:SYNTHESIS of the interview. Also, with "Lovebird" there was lots of coverage and label confirmation plus a music video and a date that wasn't the album's date. "You Don't Know What to Do" was also played live on radio, it might not have received a single cover but it received a live performance. Should that not be considered a single? Considering Mariah has premiered two songs live on radio I think we should wait for an official release date or some kind of label confirmation. Its too coincidental that Digital Spy is quoiting the album's release date as the single's date. No other UK reference, no press release from Virgin EMI, no radio playlist, no confirmation from Official Charts Company )(they publish weekly lists of singles) for the song's release. Just a loan mention by Digital Spy that the song was being released on May 26. I'd say wait per WP:FUTURE and WP:CRYSTAL. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 19:55, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Haven't been much around lately, but the definite non-release as a purchasable unit does not bode that well for this song to be counted as a "single". Anyhow please come to a consensus, Lil-unique, STATic, and Aaron, this edit warring is pretty disruptive. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 00:56, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
With no retail release and no radio service date then no single release has occurred. If we labeled every song that has been released for free streaming as a single, almost every song that has been released in the last 5 years would be "singles". A radio premiere is not a single release either, only a official impact to a specific format would count. STATic message me! 01:38, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Lord, we live in 2014 now. The industry has changed a lot, and streaming IS already a kind of release format nowadays. Billboard has incorporated streaming into the Hot 100 tabulation (along with sales and radio airplay). RIAA has counted streaming for certification. As for User:STATicVapor comment, not every song was uploaded for official streaming would be considered a 'single', just like not every song was uploaded for sale in iTunes is a 'single' (look again "Venus" or "The Way You Move"). So, if a label or an artist called a song a 'single' and there we should go. Bluesatellite (talk) 04:08, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Where is your source that streaming is a professionally recognized format for release as a single? If that was the case, every single article about a 2010s single needs to have that format added to its infobox, because almost every song released as a single is also posted on VEVO or Soundcloud by the artist or label. See how out of hand that would get. We should not use it as a format here and not elsewhere. Every song released for retail sale as a single download on iTunes is considered a single, if there are articles they do not, they should be changed immediately. "Venus" was only available with the pre-order on iTunes, but WP:WAX regardless. This is exactly what a promotional single is, just a promotional release for free, without any official retail release or official radio impact date. STATic message me! 04:19, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And on the other way, can you provide me a link for this steament -> only a official impact to a specific format would count? Or can you show me a direct reference for the 'clear definition' of "single"? I can provide you that Billboard Hot 100 tabulation consists of three elements (sales + radio airplay + legal streaming). I didn't say that we should include 'streaming' to every song infobox. I mean, "Drunk in Love" was only released to the radio and there's no separate commercial single (We don't include 'radio' in the infobox, do we?). So what's the difference with Mariah Carey herself calling a song a single (with an artwork) and releasing it to her VEVO channel? It has also got spins on the radios since its premiere (without that so-called 'impact date'). Bluesatellite (talk) 04:41, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As for User:Lil-unique1, Mariah never said "You Don't Know What to Do" is a single, so the comparison is pointless. If you want her label confirmation, here we go -> listen to her brand new single, “Thirsty”. I definitely never mind whether it is a single or not. Mariah, her label, and media... all have called "Thirsty" a single and it's only available for radio and streaming as for now. What's the need of "impact date" if the radios have already got the song and played it? What if they don't release the song for separate single purchase until the album's release date? Bluesatellite (talk) 05:20, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For the oblivious and non-sensical user(s) that is hell bent on ignoring the facts: "Listen to my new single THIRSTY now!!!" The fact that Def Jam have posted on their website that it is the next single also confirms that it is. Come on guys, stop being so blind. Are some of us here forgetting that streams now count toward charting in the US, and is perhaps going to in the UK soon too? Fantastic point about "Drunk in Love", by the way Bluesatelite. I hadn't thought of that.  — ₳aron 08:50, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think we can convert the infobox from song to single for now, as there is a lot of media coverage calling it a single, along with Def Jam and Mariah herself. But we still need a consensus to decide where should we go for "release date" and "release history". I don't think there would be a formal announcement of "impact date" since the song itself has already been on radios. If they don't release the single commercially until May 27, I also don't think there would be any individual single purchase because by that time people can buy the song separately as part of the album. Bluesatellite (talk) 09:50, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The radio premiere for the remix and the streaming premiere for the original. They are the release dates. I don't think she will make it a standalone digital release, I think it will just be based on downloads from the album.  — ₳aron 09:55, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Same here. I personally stick with May 13, 2014 (radio premire) as the release date, as it was the first time the song officially played on the radio. Unless fellow editors here can provide a source to back up their claim that "only with the announcement of 'impact date' a song can be considered a single" :) Bluesatellite (talk) 10:03, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, then maybe it is a future single? However, until it is actually released in a recognized format we do not need to change the infobox or refer to it as a single in the lead. Being played on the radio or being released for free streaming are not single releases and not formats like CD Single, 7" or digital download are. Any song can be played on the radio, it needs a official service date. See the article for single if you would like. @Lil-unique1: or @IndianBio: any comments? STATic message me! 17:34, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I do apologise I wasn't aware DefJam has uploaded it to their website. I do accept "Thirsty" is a single and in this instnace because it has been anmouced as such and it was released for streaming (a chartable format) it SHOULD be allowed to be called a single with streaming as its release date. As soon as a commercial or radio date is announced that should replace the streaming date. Also think that this is a case of WP:LOCALCONSENSU so it should be brought up at WP:SONG so that a streaming date coupled with an official announcement is accepted as release of a single. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 19:02, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There's no future about it! She has already said it's a single now. Mariah has confirmed it, Def Jam has confirmed it, she has released the artwork, it's getting radio airplay, it can be streamed, it can be listened to on iTunes radio and Youtube. She's not as singles driven this time around with regard to iTunes. The release of the album will enable people to buy it as an album track, not a standalone single. Artists are changing how they release their material now. Waiting for a digital format single release is not the answer, StaticVapor, you should start taking note of what we are saying and the information presented to you instead of digging your heels in and reverting everyone just because you don't deem it as a single without a digital single release. Mariah has confirmed it is a single right now, and her opinion at the end of the day is the only one that truly matters about this because it has come direct from her mouth.  — ₳aron 19:43, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Lil-unique1. This should be discussed at WP:SONG so we can overall consider "streaming" as a single release format. I am not requiring a digital single release, but if they were pushing it as a single I would expect it to be scheduled for an official service date to radio. As I said, any song can get airplay. STATic message me! 21:38, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that we should discuss whether or not streaming should be considered a single format. That goes beyond this article. — Status (talk · contribs) 06:18, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it seems like the logical thing to do. Set a precedence and have a final consensus for all these circular discussions, so that it is reflected across all the song/ single articles in Wikipedia. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 06:22, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have started a discussion at WP:SONG and pinged you all to discuss there. — Status (talk · contribs) 06:28, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Very, VERY, smart move, Status. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 13:35, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

THIS is the reason why I have always said we should wait when marking songs as singles. In this interview Bartels and Carey's camp are announcing their intention to release "You Don't Know To Do" as the album's first single. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 10:55, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

But Mariah and Def Jam have already said that "Thirsty" is the "new single."  — ₳aron 15:45, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
They said it was a single and released it to streaming, but if another song is actually released i.e. serviced to radio or released to digital download and receives a music video then it is evident that "Thirsty" was intended to be a single but not actually released as one, much in the same way as "No One Greater" by Ashanti (released for streaming through Soundcloud (this eligible to chart), confirmed on her website, but not actually released to radio or digitally). → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 23:06, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) either way this reinforces the requirement to wait until a song is actually released or serviced before calling it a single. Where singles are announced but cancelled they should be labelled as songs not singles anyway. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 23:14, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Reminds me of how "Venus" by Lady Gaga was originally going to be the second single from Artpop before her last-minute change-of-plans to instead release Do What U Want as the second single back in October 2013, and "Venus" was instead released as just a promotional single. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 01:47, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You can't say it's a streaming single then say if another is released digitally or for radio then that takes over as the single, that's hypocritical. Streaming is a form of digital release, it's certainly not physical. Fact is, "Thirsty" was released. Perhaps at this point, maybe it would be fair to call it a buzz single from the album, so she released it to create a buzz. It's certainly not a promotional single, because she didn't promote the song hardly.  — ₳aron 07:51, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Dual single or quick consecutive singles, maybe (a la Beyoncé)? I was simply comparing the idea of canceling releases. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 08:14, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't addressing your comment.  — ₳aron 09:00, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I wasnt saying on the basis that other singles were being released digitally etc. My point is that I accept at the time of announcement the song was unveiled as a single and made available to stream. However, streaming is not officially classified as a release format in the industry. we tried to reach a consensus at WP:SONG bit I caveated that with inclusion of specific confirmation from the label and also replacing streaming dates being replaced with radio or digital ones at a later date. Everyone agreed with that I believe. However, given that she has not promoted the song nor actually released it and Def Jam have said nothing else about the song and already talking about releasing new single its fair to say "Thirsty" was just a song (intended to be a single but replaced with another song). Streaming alone without coverage from the label/artidt beyond the date it was released for streaming should not be classified as a single IMO. It just reinforces the need in future for everyone to WAIT AND SEE before labelling songs and singles. Btw, at a presscall, Mariah said "I've yet to release an official single from the new album". As if we need her complicating the situation even more. #ffs p.s. you didnt answer the Ashanti example Aaron. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 09:19, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No it's not fair to say this is just a song now because Def Jam have announced another single. If Def Jam have called "Thirsty" a single, as they have, then it is. The release date is the Monday for the remix and the Tuesday for the solo. Premiering is just another word for releasing for the first time. I'm not familiar with Ashanti, but going by your own description, then it is quite clearly single. You don't need a digital download or radio release for confirm single status. A record label is suffice.  — ₳aron 11:55, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Actually if a label says something is going to happen like a song is going to be released but then no radio or digital date happens then yes the release didn't happen. Premiering a song is not releasing for the first time. Otherwise any artist putting a song on iTunes (without it being heard beforehand) would be referred to as premiering a song. The current guidance is that the only supported methods of releasing a single are: digital download (independent of the parent album), radio adds or impact day (promoting an album's download track to a specific date, with the standard things that accompany a single). "Thirsty" doesn't fit any of these molds. It was announced as a single, received a premiere on radio and then a video of it was uploaded to Vevo. Announcing it as a single or premiering on radio do not make a song a single. As pointed out lots of artists release songs to Vevo ahead of an album release. Christina Aguilera did it post-album release with "Let There Be Love", but no one is calling that a single. There definitely is not a one-size fits all policy with singles. I am afraid that under the current guidance and practice, streaming alone doesn't qualify as a song as a single without other things. Def Jam unveiled the song as a single but have failed to follow through with any of the usual behaviors that follow a single's announcement - no release date, no radio adds, no video (this is not a requirement for a single) and no promotion. The fact that in subsequent mentions, Mariah recognised 3 pre-release singles and then said she was considering "YDWTD" as the first single since the album's release that says it all really. Either way there's not enough to call "Thirsty" a single at present, irrespective of whether another song is released or not. I'd be interested to see what other people say. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 14:21, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's still releasing it. She released it via radio and streaming for people to hear. Mariah and Def Jam announcing it as a single makes it a single. No one else has the authority to confirm it as such. We will have to agree to disagree.  — ₳aron 15:11, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
An announcement by a record label and a radio premiere does not make a song a single. It has never made a song a single. A song is not a single unless it is released as such. Streaming does not make a song a single. There is no support for either of these notions. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 20:09, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I was reading other articles published today where it is called a single. I don't know how many times I need to say it until it gets into people's heads: Mariah and Def Jam confirmed it's release as a single. It is at the very least a buzz single/promotional single. And saying that not even a record label announcing a song as a single confirms it is a single is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. They should know, it's them releasing it.  — ₳aron 20:54, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Lil-unique, how the fuck does announcement from record label not confirm it!? I agree with Calvin that such a statement is outright absurd. I'm not sure about when its release is supposed to be marked as, but seriously doubt it's unconfirmed unless they've cancelled plans. Which new articles talk about it being a single, though? XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 23:14, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Both you you need to chill out and keep it WP:CIVIL. Yes, Mariah never called the song a single, her label unveiled it as a single and it premiered on radio as a single. This much I accept. However, as everyone above in the conversation has said, there is currently no consensus at WP:SONGS that making a song available for streams qualifies a song as a single. The only allowed methods of single release at the moment are digital download (independent of the album), radio adds, and impact day (promoting the album track download to a certain date). "Thirsty" was called a single but just as at Michael and the whole studio vs compilation debate, a reliable source can make all sorts of claims. Jermaine Dupri is a reliable source, yet we discredit him for saying "You're Mine" was not a single because it evidently was per all of the release information, reliable sources and applicable behaviour of singles. At the moment streams do not qualify a song as a single, and although Def Jam called it a single its not appropriate for us to call it a single YET. Effectively the song is in limbo, its been announced a single but not released as one. I wish you would stop quoting bits of original research and actually look at what the guidance from other articles and WP says. If there is a mass consensus to label "Thirsty" a single then we can (and will). But until then derogatory comments like "I don't know how many times I need to say it until it gets into people's heads" just make it seem as if you feel like you are more superior to others Aaron. I understand your passionate but your opinion is no more significant than anyone else's and you need to keep civil and consider other's points of view. The very label you talk about being reliable as they're releasing the songs is the same source that said Mariah's first single would be "YDKWT", completely disregarding the first 3 singles (4 if you include "Thirsty"). So no, labels are not reliable sources, it is their job to put an artist and their album in the best possible light. Either way, we can leave it a song for now and put the streaming date in the infobox as a release date for now. But any consensus here would be a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS and in the interest of accuracy, it should be resolved at WP:SONG. Now can we all get along without using expletives or flexing our vocals? → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 15:36, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am being civil in the most controlled way: MARIAH confirmed it as a single on her official Twitter, so why do you keep saying she hasn't?  — ₳aron 18:05, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't aware that Mariah had personally called "Thirsty" her single. Thanks for clarifying that. Do you really think that you were being civil. If someone came up to you in real life and said that would you be all oopsy daisy about things? You should read back what you said and then look at WP:CIVIL. What you have said and the way you said it does not assume good faith and you come across as sounding that you feel like you are more important than others. Let's stick to the facts and focus on the editing instead of flexing our vocals at each other, you can disagree with me that you were being uncivil but I feel you were and I'm sure others would too. Either way, the consensus of the community is more important than either of our opinions and I will support what a consensus says if it concludes that "Thirsty" should be a single based on the announcement and the streaming factor. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 19:56, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry if saying "how the fuck" came off as uncivil, but it didn't make sense to say something isn't a single when the song's own artist says it's going to be one. The question remains: when will it be released as a single if it hasn't been already? XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 22:36, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This entire thread has consisted of not only me, but others too, saying exactly what you have said you haven't read or heard! I'm sure you could understand our frustration when we repeatedly say something and you constantly ignore it! I've stuck to the facts for this entire thread. I'm sure you can disagree that you happened not to notice mine and others multiple replies reiterating Mariah and Def Jam in saying that "Thirsty" was confirmed by both of them to be the new single and I'm sure others would agree. It's not about consensus of what you think it should be. As I'm saying for the god only knows what time, Mariah and Def Jam confirmed it, streaming is clearly the way she intended to release it.  — ₳aron 09:45, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I too said that it should be considered a single initially, but now I am saying we should wait as Mariah and her label said that they have yet to release a single from the album so we should wait for clarification. I have read and heard what has already been said, but as pointed out saying "XYZ" happened does not mean "XYZ" has happened. If Mariah had never made "Thirsty" available for streaming but had simply called the song a single and premiered it on radio it would not be classified as a single, as you have to prove that it was actually released. The problem here, is that labels release songs for streaming all of the time and streaming alone does not count as a song being released as a single. That's not my opinion that's the existing consensus across wikipedia and the industry. Now if everyone is happy to call "thirsty" a single based on the streaming and announcement fair enough but its not a granted right, it has to be considered on a case by case basis. Its not a case of me not hearing, its a case of you reading what you see and taking it literally without considering other points of view. You cite Mariah as confirming that "Thirsty" is a single yet Mariah herself says in another source that she's considering release "YKWTD" as the album's next single, and she failed to even acknowledge "Thirsty". You can't pick and choose when to listen to an artist or label and then decide you do or do not want to go by their word. That's why I have said waiting is the best thing. I'm not adverse the song being labelled a promotional streaming single (or something similar) but I believe we should wait as in your case you cite Mariah and I too cite Mariah for the reasons why "Thirsty" ain't quite a single. You seem unwilling to even consider the possibility that the situation might have changed. Like I said (a million times over), if the overwhelming feeling from everyone above is yes its a single I will go with the majority (of which there isn't one yet). → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 10:40, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Unique. Either way, filming for the "YDKWTD" video is already underway so that will most likely very soon be released as the next official single. Until then, it's simply a song who's remix was sent to radio as well as Dupri's babbling.--PeterGriffin • Talk2Me 11:04, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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