Talk:Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You)

Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 6, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 22:30, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What Doesn't Kill You (Stronger) → Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You) – I am placing a requested move to avoid what I could see as being an edit war. The song is titled "What Doesn't Kill You (Stronger)" on the album Stronger (Kelly Clarkson album), while the song is titled as "Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You)" on the Amazon link [1] for the Deluxe album of Stronger. And Amazon has single versions listing both titles, [2] and [3]. The image used on the single's article has the title as "Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You)", but the website where it is claimed that it came from does not have the image at all, [4]. I am not sure if this should be moved, but I feel this will help open up the discussion. Aspects (talk) 16:13, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, I think the name of the article should stay as "What Doesn't Kill You (Stronger)" because it is the original title used everywhere (including the album art) until recently when the single was announced. This title is still used on the physical and iTunes [5] album; only the single (and iTunes session EP) uses "Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You)". Furthermore, the article is about the song as a whole not just the single release and thus should be the original title. Another example of this is "Wrong Baby Wrong Baby Wrong" which is the original album title and article title whilst the single was released as "Wrong Baby Wrong" — Dell9300 (talk) 16:57, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support per the single cover, radio addon title, music video title, etc. As a single, that's the title of it. Similar situation to What Goes Around... Comes Around; it's title is What Goes Around.../...Comes Around on the album, but What Goes Around... Comes Around as a single. — Status {^talk_contribs 18:00, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support I think the name of the article should be changed because this article is about the single, not about the song. According to the parameters in Template:Infobox single, the 'name' field should contain the name of the single.— My December ^(talk) 01:06, 25 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support The article should be about both the song itself and the single's release. Both titles would be correct in that respect, although I would lean in favor of the current title as opposed to the original title assuming that is the intention of the artist and/or record label. Perhaps including a sourced comment in the lead section that supports this "intention" would help settle the debate. One example might be the official Kelly Clarkson site that clearly shows the song listed under the new title. GoneIn60 (talk) 19:23, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Keilana (talk · contribs) 01:05, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Here's what I think needs to be done with the article; I've organized it by section for your ease of use. I've watchlisted this page, so if you have any questions or if you disagree with what I've suggested, you can poke me here or on my talk page. Nice work! I'm impressed. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 01:05, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lead[edit]

There should be an "and" before "Greg Kurstin". You could change the comma to a semicolon and say "it was produced by Kurstin" or something to that effect.

Done Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

No comma necessary after "RCA Records".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Put "a" before "vibrant beat".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

The sentence "The song is considered as an anthem for recovery after the end of a bad relationship" sits funny with me, perhaps you could reword it as "The song has been received as an anthem for recovery after the end of a bad relationship" or something.

Quite done. But I reworded it with "empowerment and recovery" as it inspired cancer patients, too. Is this okay? Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

In "it became her third song", I would change "her" to "Clarkson" and change "making Clarkson the first" to "making her the first". That way, the antecedent is the most clear.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"the theme of a global flash mob which features worldwide fan involvement" is redundant.

I rewrote it to "It incorporates the theme of a global flash mob." Please check. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:42, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"positive receptions" should be singular.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:42, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Can an impact really be joyful and fun? Consider rewording.

Done. But I changed it to exuberant instead. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"in several live appearances" should be something like "during several live appearances"

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Background and release[edit]

You need an "and" before "Greg Kurstin".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"coronation" is too lionizing for my taste.

Done. I changed it to "after winning the first season" Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

The sentence beginning "The song was inspired" needs a rewrite.

I changed it to "infused". Should I rewrite it again? Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto with the one beginning "In July 2011".

I removed it. Should I reword it instead? Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"the song's empowerment and uplifting theme" should be rewritten, something like "the song's uplifting theme of empowerment"

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

The phrase "officially impacted" is a little PR-y, maybe "officially released to" instead.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Composition[edit]

"where Clarkson's vocals" doesn't make sense, this should be something like "and Clarkson's vocals" or "; Clarkson's vocals"

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"rumbling guitar" and "shimmering synth" - these should be in quotations.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"which narrates an anthem of personal reinvention, and dancing". This doesn't make sense to me.

"vibrant beat" is repeated again here and I feel like it's a little much. Ditto with "pulsating".

I rewrote it to "pulsating beats". Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"display" should be "displays".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"ginormous chorus" needs to be in quotes if it's a quotation from the source, or reworded. It's not encyclopedic as it stands.

Done. It was quoted from the source. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"Lyrically, the song is about moving on from a nasty ex who won't leave you alone." needs to be rewritten in a more formal style and in the third person.

I changed it to "Lyrically, the song explores the theme of moving on from an inimical relationship" Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Who considers it "an anthem for recovery after the end of a bad relationship" and why?

I removed it instead because it seemed redundant after the previous sentence. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence beginning "According to Clarkson..." needs a rewrite.

I changed it to "In an interview, Clarkson remarked" Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Critical reception[edit]

In the second sentence of Grady Smith's review, the song title should be in single quotes.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"Glenn Gamboa from Newsday" should be "Glenn Gamboa of Newsday".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Please don't call her "Kelly", change any instances of that to "Clarkson" or "her".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"Otherwise the majority of the critics" doesn't make sense.

Removed it. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

There should not be "a" before "tailor-made".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Chart performance[edit]

You need a "the" before "Billboard Hot 100".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"It also becomes Clarkson's first song" should be "It also became Clarkson's first song".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"has peaked" should be just "peaked".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Is there a citation for it being number 8 for 3 consecutive weeks?

I inserted citations for it. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"it has peaked at number 18" should be "it peaked at number 18".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Music video[edit]

"The scenes are shown alternately for about half way through with a variety of montage that show people from various places performing the same dance routine." and "The final scene shows Clarkson and the crowd disperse as the song comes to an end." need to be rewritten.

Rewritten. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Critical receptions toward the music video have been positive" should be "critical reception towards the music video has been positive".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"She loved the video's different approach" - make this more formal.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"Leah Collins of The Vancouver Sun interpreted that the video depicts Clarkson who develops strength and endurance as well as the ability to lead a large-scale dance routine after surviving a trauma" is very clunky.

Rewrote it. But please check if it's still clunky. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"gave a positive response towards the video" should be "had a positive response to the video".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"the overall impact of the music video was joyful fun" - this doesn't make sense to me.

I've put quotation marks on it as it was just quoted by the source. Is this okay? Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Live performances and usage in media[edit]

"special concert at The Troubador in Los Angeles on October 19, 2011 to promote the album." is clunky, please rewrite.

I rewrote it. But please do check on it again. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

" on Z100's annual Jingle Ball concert " should be "at Z100's..."

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"Dancing with the Stars on May 22, 2012" should only have "Dancing with the Stars" italicized.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"the 2012 Toyota" should be "a 2012 Toyota"

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

You need a comma after "Andrew Zimmern", "Joshua Ledet", and "Naya Rivera" if you prefer the Oxford comma. I do, but if you don't, it's no big deal.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"together with the Troubletones" breaks the sentence up weirdly. Consider moving it or transitioning differently.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

You start two sentences with "the song", maybe change one of them.

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

Should "dancing the song" be "dancing to the song"?

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"The video a viral hit" should be "the video was a viral hit"

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

You need a "the" before "Finnish television series".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"it was then performed" - "then" is unnecessary here

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

"danced the song" should be "danced to the song".

Done. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Done[reply]

That's all I have, I'll check back with you if you have questions or take care of all this. Thanks for your time!

I think I can do this (the nominator is ausent), but until 4 June. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 21:51, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I revised it now, please check. Woofygoodbird (talk) 07:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments[edit]

Would you mind if I made some? Because there are some really worrying things. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 10:17, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Development of the song[edit]

American Songwriter has uploaded an interview with one of the song's writers, Ali Tamposi: [6]. We might want to archive the link as it could become dead soon. 五代 (talk) 16:06, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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