Talk:Lunar New Year/Archive 1

Archive 1

WPCHINA tag

I removed the WPCHINA tag because Lunar New Year can refer to several different culture's new year. Someone had redirect the page to what they think is the most commonly known one - namely, the Chinese New Year. But just because it may be the most common doesn't mean its the only one. Redirecting it only to the Chinese New Year is not very encylcopoedic. And it seemed to have encouraged an edit war to redirect to other specific new year pages. --tess 00:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Let people stop redirecting this to Chinese New Year and other regional new years, because this really ought to be a disambiguation page. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 00:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

yeah,yeah,yeah, you guys just cannot accept the fact that your culture came from China,lmfao~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.157.97.218 (talk) 23:04, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Clarifying Lunar New Year

This is just my stab at the facts. Other people with more knowledge of the specific new year celebration will need to step up. But my goal here is to clarify what people mean by "Lunar New Year". I also want to point out that the Chinese don't typically call their New Year "Lunar" in Chinese. It is either referred to as just the "New Year", or "Agrarian/Farm Calendar New Year". tess 19:13, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

An added note: My name is Dede I am 12 years old I am in the 7th grade my Birth day is July 1st I have brown eyes and brown hair I agree that the clarifications so far have helped, but have some thoughts about further improvement.

"Lunar New Year refers to the beginning of the year in calendars based on the cyles of the moon. Most 'lunar calendars' are actually lunisolar, that is, periodically corrected so each specific lunar month continues to fall within one or another of the solar seasons. The Jewish calendar, for example, simply repeats a month when the date of New Years strays beyond a certain solar marker. Jewish holidays, and the date of Easter in Christian calendars, thus oscillate around particular solar-based Gregorian dates without remaining constant. The most commonly used simply lunar calendar is the Islamic calendar, according to which the first month, Muharram, migrates gradually backwards through the seasons, occurring earlier in each solar year."

I would further suggest the entries be placed in three groups:

"A number of moon-cycle new year celebrations occur in the Gregorian months of January or February:"

  [here the six listed]

"Another grouping of celebrations occurs around April:"

  [here the Thai grouping of 4, plus:]

"· Deccan New Year, observed under various names in India (Ugadi, Yugadi, Gudi Padwa, Cheti Chand, Sajibu Cheiraoba, Baisakhi, Puthandu)."

"The remaining celebrations fall at other times of year:

"· Islamic New Year, the first day of Muharram, may occur any time in the Gregorian year.

"· Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashana, at the end of Elul, is generally in September."

While I agree that many in the US use 'lunar new year' as a synonym for 'Chinese New Year', I also agree this is a disambiguation page and should not use that misconception as its organizing thought. This is perhaps more discussion than occurs on many disambiguation pages, but there seems no better place to establish the basic terminology in a way that helps the reader find what is wanted. Kboy (talk) 00:09, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Very narrow-minded and prejudice of user Mahlergustav to speak of Koreans and Vietnamese in this manner. So instead of calling it Lunar New Year, is it correct for Koreans, Vietnamese, Japanese, Mongolians and Tibetans to all use the term "CHINESE New Year"??? Very poor, Mahlergustav, very poor. -CatmamaK — Preceding unsigned comment added by CatmamaK (talk • contribs) 21:46, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

If their calendar is ultimately derived from the Chinese calendar, then it's as reasonable as calling the languages spoken in Canada, the USA, Australia, and New Zealand "English." It's not like in Japanese or Korean there's any shame in referring to kanji or hanja, or in English to Arabic numerals. For that matter the Chinese Zodiac is also a generally accepted term, with occasional references to particular countries where additional clarification is needed because some different animals are used. It's more reasonable than just using "Lunar New Year," an appellation that rightly would apply to only New Years like the Islamic one, as opposed to the various Lunisolar New Years, could as well include many other Lunisolar New Years besides the Chinese derived one, and which isn't even the native term for any of these celebrations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.108.64.67 (talk) 16:51, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Can we use months rather than seasons?

Since seasons are local to one hemisphere? Many Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern and Jewish origin people now live in the southern hemisphere, and the lunar new year date is clearly related to the solar month, not the solar season, which is opposite in the southern hemisphere despite the date being celebrated at the same time.

Potential Editing War

Hi fellow editors, This page is not a place for projection of political power or ideologies.

It appears with Asian Lunar New Year coming this page has become or is about to become a page for editing wars. Lunar New Year, as described in the page, is a collection of holidays observed in many cultures, some of which are not related to East Asian or Chinese culture whatsoever.

It would be much appreciated if everyone editing the page can stay objective and edit in a fact-based manner. I would also like to ask for help protecting the content and neutrality of this page as I am still unfamiliar with the Wikipedia mechanisms and guidelines.

Happy Lunar New Year everyone!

Indigneous Lunar New Years -Nisga'a Hobeyee

Can we add a link/write a section re: the lunar new year calanders for indigenous peoples?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobiyee

Hobiyee is one example- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zelious (talk • contribs) 15:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

This should be redirected to Chinese New Year

Lunar New Year is not the right word to describe Chinese New Year. That's the name Korean and Vietnamese used when they don't want show their culture is derived from Chinese Culture. Here is wiki, and we should explain the fact about this festival to others. Mahlergustav (talk) 22:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

There are plenty of other lunar (or lunisolar) calendars (and hence "New Years") that have nothing to do with the Chinese calendar. Korean and Vietnamese calendars are basically the same as the Chinese calendars, but use different time zones as standards, which means 1/24 or 4.2% of all dates are different between either one and the Chinese. Articles on all three calendars already allude to this difference. "Lunar New Year" may not be scientifically correct, but having links to each of these new years is totally appropriate, as different cultures indeed have different observances that may or may not be traced to a common origin. HkCaGu (talk) 23:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

"It is also understood as Chinese New Year." Understood by whom? Is this really a fact? --tess (talk) 00:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

by the local news paper in United States. I live in Oklahoma State. Please don't confuse international friends, OK? They understand this as Chinese New Year. I really don't understand why you guys must give that some other definitions. I have an Indian friend, who told me as her understanding, so-called Lunar New Year is originated from China, and then spread into many other Asian Countries. I am responsible for my words here. I love wikipedia! Please! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahlergustav (talk • contribs) 17:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

You don't seem to be able to read and comprehend what Tesscass and I have written or the principles of Wikipedia. Until you do so, please refrain from reverting edits. HkCaGu (talk) 18:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't dispute that Chinese New Year is the one that comes to a majority of American's minds when Lunar New Year is mentioned - even if it is somewhat erroneous. (The Chinese doesn't even call its own new year "Lunar".) And you've already stated very vehemently that it is "understood". But my point is, based on a lunar or lunisolar calendar, there are several other culture's new year tradition that can also be called Lunar New Year. Yes, some of them are directly derived from the Chinese calendar. But redirecting this page to Chinese New Year would cut off ways for people to find more information about other "lunar new years." The "understood" knowledge isn't the only knowledge out there. --tess (talk) 18:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we should understand one word from the word itself. You should respect how others (at least English native speaker) understand the English word. Right now you give this word some new definitions and you said that is based on Wiki principle. I really disagree, and THAT IS NOT WHAT WIKI REALLY WANT SHOW PEOPLE! You try to show your respect to diverse culture,but you DON'T RESPECT ENGLISH! I WILL INSIST MY POINT OF VIEW, BECAUSE ENGLISH WIKI BELONGS TO ALL OF US ENGLISH SPEAKER, NOT JUST YOU TWO. I LOVE WIKI! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahlergustav (talk • contribs) 23:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

One of the purpose of this disambiguation page is to point out that there are different "lunar" new year celebrations, even if they were all originally based on the same calendar. I certainly do not mean to disrespect English. --tess (talk) 01:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't wanna bring a war here. I just want to discuss the word denifition. I agree with the current page. That can reflect the word's meaning accurately. But next time please use your argue but not your wiki-power in the discussion. Wiki should not be like politics.

Right now the article is unbiased, and acceptable.

• Islamic New Year is the real lunar new year, while Chinese New Year is the lunisolar new year, because Chinese calendar is a lunisolar calendar, as the 二十四节气 is the solar part of the Chinese calendar. --Yejianfei (talk) 03:48, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Indic New Year

The Indic New Year (which takes place mid-April) is based on the sidereal entry of the Sun into Aries, and has nothing to do with the lunar calendar. Its coverage should be split into a separate article. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:32, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

The reason why they are included is because many of those countries use a hybrid lunar and solar (lunisolar) calendar. Also, mainland Southeast Asia and Sri Lanka use the Buddhist calendar which is a lunisolar calendar. According to the Buddhist calendar and its variants like the traditional Thai lunar calendar, the next year starts in April (Gregorian calendar) with the first full moon of the year, it is also when the next animal zodiac year commences. The East Asian New Year is also based on lunisolar calendars. For example, the Vietnamese New Year begins on the night of the first moon after the sun enters Aquarius. The only "pure" lunar calendar is the Islamic calendar. (120.144.26.72 (talk) 02:13, 31 December 2016 (UTC))

October 2017

I just looked further, and it appears that the IP user has been on a one-person crusade to misrepresent the Sankranti-based new years as lunar new years, something that no reliable source supports. It'll take some time to revert all the changes. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:26, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Read the article again and read the sources on certain pages such as Cambodian New Year before removing information. (121.220.45.120 (talk) 05:21, 14 October 2017 (UTC))

The intro says, "... celebrations are, or were historically, observed according to the local lunisolar calendars". It is acknowledging the historical connection these festivals had with the lunar calendar. It's not a crusade, what is your problem? (121.220.45.120 (talk) 05:23, 14 October 2017 (UTC))

Can we correct the first sentence?

This currently reads "Lunar New Year is the first day of a secular, sacred, or other guise whose months are coordinated by the cycles of the moon." The word "guise" is bizarrely meaningless here. At one time or another the words "year" or "calendar," either of which would make much more sense, have been employed instead. In yet another version, the word "guys" appears instead, which strongly suggests the whole thing is some form of vandalism. Since there seems to be a lot of warring and vandalism going on with this article, I am not leaping to make the correction myself, but asking, Do we want to salvage this article? If so, can we start with its first sentence? Mandrakos (talk) 16:13, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Today the article links to the Google doodle, so the whole world was wondering what the hell "guise temporal beliefs" (the latest vandalism) was supposed to mean. I have made the simplest correction back to an earlier version of the article ("year"). Mandrakos (talk) 19:32, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

The South Asian new years are not very clear

"These South and Southeast Asian New Year celebrations are, or were historically, observed according to the local lunisolar calendars. They are influenced by Indian (Indic) tradition (occurring in late March or 13/14 April)"

I tried reading up on a few of the specific calendar or new year article, and it would seem the "late March or 13/14 April" is a solar new year. If the new years celebrated by those cultures used to historically be based on a lunisolar calendar then switched to a solar calendar (as possibly implied by the "were historically" wording), I could see no reference in this article or other articles directly about each calendar or new year.

I think at the minimum the South and Southeast Asian New Year ought to mention or have links to reference about the change from lunisolar to solar calendar.

Or is it that "non-Gregorian New Year used by the non-Western local tradition" gets classified as "Lunar New Year" in English even if it is the new year of a solar calendar? -67.180.194.85 (talk) 00:54, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

U.S. Holiday, February 12, per calendar

Greetings, Apple's Mac contains a calendar with this date signifying a U.S. Holiday. Where the calendar info data is hid for orig source is obscure. The article does not mention the U.S. holiday (unless I missed it). Hoping this is something that helps.Paptilian (talk) 15:10, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Just found this: https://tanenbaum.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Lunar-New-Year-Fact-Sheet-2020.pdf Paptilian (talk) 15:15, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, Chinese New Year is February 12 in 2021. See that article for details. This article covers the topic of lunar new year holidays more generally. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:17, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chinese New Year which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 19:17, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

False information

Lunar new year is not scientifically correct. As it originated from China and the Chinese lunisolar calendar, calling it “lunar” is simply false.

The non-bias term of Chinese New Year is spring festival and to be honest there should never be any issue calling it Chinese New Year as there is no doubt on the origin of this festival.

The page should be redirected to Chinese New Year and should outline that this is a non-confirmed term and it is scientifically incorrect. 110.174.147.237 (talk) 10:56, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Hoobiyee!

Don't forget about the Indigenous folks in Canada, I don't know much about the more southern nations, but in the Nisgaa tradition, lunar new year is definitely present!! 🧡 64.114.199.66 (talk) 20:39, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

It is talked about in the article here. ~mitch~ (talk) 21:20, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

New lead image

Since this is an Asian holiday (albeit one that is celebrated around the world), the lead image should be from a celebration in Asia. The current lead picture from NYC is great, but should be pushed down. These are the 3 best images I found on commons showing different aspects of the celebration that could all fit the task:

I'd appreciate feedback on which is best. 9yz (talk) 02:27, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

I think a gallery in the style of e.g. the article on Nowruz would be also suitable here as Lunar New Year is widely celebrated in many countries. Since there has been no other comment I have put these images in the infobox. More images can be added in the future for a more comprehensive coverage. Esiymbro (talk) 11:32, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Good call, TY! 9yz (talk) 20:07, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Tết spelled wrong

Tết is spelled wrong. It is not Têt, but Tết. Also, it is rightfully called Lunar New Year. Vpha (talk) 09:30, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

 Done casualdejekyll 12:39, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Request for Discussion/Scope of Article

So, about my reversion here [1], based on the body text of the article, it seems to me that this article is about various the Lunar New Years worldwide. Simply put, I think inserting phrases in the lead like "It is most commonly known as Chinese New Year globally," make this article less clear, for this article is not talking about any one Lunar New Year Celebration, but rather, Lunar New Years as a category. After all, there is a separate page on Chinese New Year celebrations.

This is also more personal preference, but in general, I think phrases like "is most commonly known as globally" are kind of tricky, and at the least should have a citation. While "most common" is in theory quantifiable, it's also a subjective assertion. Darth Coracle (talk) 01:19, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Move Vietnam under “Celebrations” to Southeast Asia

Currently, for the celebrations section, Vietnam is listed under East Asia, but this is wrong as Vietnam is a Southeast Asian country. 211.27.13.86 (talk) 23:15, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

The history of lunar new year is completely wrong

Tet in Vietnam has existed for a long time, before the time of the Three Emperors and Five Emperors. Confucius wrote in the Book of Rituals: "I do not know what Tet is, I heard somewhere that it is the name of a great festival of the Man people(meaning "southern barbarians") was a pejorative term in Chinese history to refer to ethnic tribes outside the ancient Central Plains of southern China.), they dance like crazy, drink wine and have fun on those days. Giao District Chi book also wrote: "The Giao District people often gather in each guild to dance, sing, eat and play for many days to celebrate a new planting season, not only farmers but all farmers. Quan Lang's house and God's house also participate in this festival." According to the legend of "Banh chung and banh day", Vietnamese people have been celebrating Tet since the Hung Kings dynasty, that is, before 1000 years of Northern domination.(which is 1179 years BC) All the evidences prove that lunar new year came from china was made to change the truth because these evidences only appear in China and there is no particular evidence for these documents, even the starter is an anonymous farmer. Moreover, the Sinicization ((漢化) also known as Chineseization (中國化) or Hoaization (華化) refers to the process of absorbing and converting cultures of other ethnic groups to Han culture.) that the China applied on the Bach Viet (( Chinese : 百越/百粵; pinyin : bǎi yuè , bǎik wyuèt ) now covers Southern China and the Red River Delta of Northern Vietnam. ) has been converted. Instead of turning the Bach Viet into the Chinese, the Chinese has started to followed the Bach Viet cultural, typically is Lunar New Year. By the way, Quang Trung is the saviours of the Vietnamese, not a barbarian. 2405:4802:4729:3B10:2D80:78FB:E520:685E (talk) 16:39, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

An incorrect part

( All early written records of the country have been destroyed through the millennia by numerous invasions from various groups with the last major destruction occurred during the revolution of barbaric general Quang Trung.) This part is not true. First of all, general Quang Trung was not destroyed any document because there is no written evidence for this events and secondly, he was the saviours of the Vietnamese, not a barbaric. 2405:4802:4729:3B10:2D80:78FB:E520:685E (talk) 17:07, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Article has drifted into becoming a WP:CFORK of Chinese New Year

WP:CFORK says

A content fork is the creation of multiple separate pieces of content (such as Wikipedia articles or inter-wiki objects) all describing the same subject. Content forks that are created unintentionally result in redundant or conflicting articles and are to be avoided, as the goal of a single source of truth is preferable in most circumstances. On the other hand, as an article grows, editors often create summary-style spin-offs or new, linked articles for related material. This is acceptable, and often encouraged, as a way of making articles clearer and easier to manage. Examples of this might be the cuisine of a particular region forking from an article about the region in general, a filmography forking from an article about an actor or director or a sub-genre of an aspect of culture such as a musical style.

We have a detailed article on the Chinese New Year, but this article as it stands has a great deal of the same information. It should really contain no more than a summary of that main article. It seems to me that the coverage of the Hijri and Hebrew calendars in this article hits the right balance. Is there a convincing reason to retain as much detail as is currently here? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:32, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I would strongly disagree and it seems like you have been heavily editing this article with the intentions to remove any mention of Chinese New Year, or the fact that Korean new year, Vietnamese new year, etc are strongly adopted from ancient China. You cannot erase history and pretend that such celebrations didn't have their origins in ancient China. Before you started editing, this page was okay but now, it's just ridiculous. SoyDream888 (talk) 07:23, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

JMF cites his sources and is a long time editor. Do the same, and you will be just fine. TY — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 07:24, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Respectfully, maybe yall need fresh eyes to see just how ridiculous it is in terms of cultural appropriation. Most importantly I think your mistakes are taking the term "lunar New Year" too literally and taking it away from the East Asian people. I highly suggest you take a good look at Britannica[2] and take notes. They understand that when people say "lunar new year". They are colloquially referring to Asian lunar New Year festivals, and not every single Calender that vaguely uses a moon. I don't think when people say "lunar new year" and then they instantly think of Jewish or indian celebrations. There is nobody saying that Jewish people celebrate "lunar New year". Or Jews emphasize to others that their new year is heavily dependent on the moon and celebrate the moon as if it's the theme of their celebration. Unlike Asian agriculture culture that celebrate harvest and the spirits and the moon. The Jews celebrate mostly their religious Jewish beliefs and cannot be lazily be grouped as the same thing.

And what sources? In the intro there is nobody or any provided sources colloquially saying that it is "well known" that Jewish people celebrate "lunar New year"? Instead it is well known that Jewish New Year barely celebrate the moon itself and merely only partially uses a moon calender as well as so many other stuff like the number 7 and their religious texts to calculate the date. Their theme is less moon and mostly religion. Britannica did a far superior job here unlike the poorly developed article in Wikipedia that seems to only rewrite what it means to be a lunar new year. Taking it literally, instead of actually recognising Asian culture that is heavily celebrating the moon as the core theme and director of their celebration.SoyDream888 (talk) 08:07, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Per WP:LEAD, the lead section of an article needs to be a succinct summary of the body content. It can't really go into nuances of who celebrates what nor the nature of that celebration. Yes, it is true that most Jews don't "celebrate" lunar new year, though it is a significant date in the Hebrew calendar, so we can't just erase their culture because it doesn't fit with your model of a "proper celebration". Muslims celebrate 1 Muharram, the first day of the only genuinely lunar calendar still in significant existence – but not to the extent that East Asians do theirs.

Your intervention is a good illustration of the reason for my concern. This article is (or at least should be) about identification of the first day of a lunar or lunisolar new year, not about how it is celebrated by various cultures around the world. We have dedicated articles for that (Chinese New Year, Islamic New Year). We absolutely do not need two articles covering the same topic in the same way. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:12, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• Note that I've checkuser blocked SoyDream888 as a confirmed sock account.