Talk:Beyond the Sea (song)

Merge proposal[edit]

The two articles are redundant as they are featuring two versions (with different lyrics) of the same song. The articles should be merged and feature a list of the many versions the song has. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.48.51.224 (talk • contribs)

Given the different lyrics (the English version isn't a translation of the French) and different feel of the two songs, I suggest they be kept as separate articles. --mervyn (talk) 18:46, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with the merge proposal. The English version took its inspiration from the French original but its lyrics and style are so utterly different that both songs come down to use as separate entities albeit based on the same tune. 95.147.74.51 (talk) 20:40, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Beyond the Sea (song). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060101095628/http://www.jacklawrencesongwriter.com:80/songs/beyond_the_sea.html to http://www.jacklawrencesongwriter.com/songs/beyond_the_sea.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:13, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merge or delete[edit]

As raised above, this article should definitely be merged with "La Mer". The two songs are the same: "Beyond the Sea" is an English-language cover of "La Mer". Different lyrics do not make it a different song. In fact, lyrics are routinely rewritten when songs are covered in another language, as it is difficult to translate a song literally. One commentator above mentions that "Beyond the Sea" differs in style from the French original, but that is only true of Bobby Darin's cover: the 1940s recordings of Jack Lawrence's version by artists such as Harry James and Jack Owens have arrangements that are similar to that of Trenet, if lightly adapted to fit an American musical idiom.

So, I recommend that this page is merged. It could even be wholly deleted, since the article for "La Mer" already has a section on "Beyond the Sea". The bottom line here is that we don't have different articles for cover songs, even if they are different from the original. For example, we don't have a separate article for Jimi Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower," even though it departs dramatically from Bob Dylan's original. 92.34.117.237 (talk) 13:09, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, it's the same song. We also don't have Garota de Ipanema (except as a redirect), even though both the lyrics and the rhythm of the melody are quite different in the original. Bobby Darin's Mack the Knife and Mackie Messer don't have separate articles either. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 14:37, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comment! The only other analogous example I could find is that of "Comme d'habitude" and "My Way," which have their separate articles here. Subjectively, I would say that's more justifiable than the present case, since "My Way" has - at least outside of France - far eclipsed the original in popularity and general recognition. (But objectively, despite Paul Anka's reconceived ending, those two are still the same song and should really be in one article). "Beyond the Sea" is a more clear-cut case, though, and I think the existing article on "La Mer" could simply be augmented with the infobox on Darin's version from this page as well as a few other bits and pieces.

It's just unnecessarily confusing to have two articles. For example, I just noticed that the list of versions in this article - which supposedly only covers the English version - also includes recordings in other languages. It's much clearer in the article on "La Mer," which organizes the cover versions by language. 92.34.117.237 (talk) 17:01, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

La Mer (song) is pretty untidy and could use some re-organizing anyway; that would be a good opportunity to enlarge the "Beyond the Sea" section with an eye toward this merger gaining consensus (which I suspect it will with a few more eyes on it.) --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 18:09, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]