Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pink Floyd/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

August 2006 - January 2008

joining

I would like to join this project. --Sul V 17:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Does one join simply by adding their name to the main page, or are there rites of initiation, you know, with paddles and stuff (I sure hope)? edgarde 21:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Simply add your username into the list of (active) participants. --Dr. Who 16:44, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The Wall live

How come we have two sub-articles for The Wall live? There is one in the wall article itself and one in the Live Performances article? What should we do? I think the one in The Wall does a much better job of expaning the concert, but I think that the igger article should be in the Live perfomances page. Should we have a short paragraph in the wall page and then revamp the Live perfoamces article on the wall in concert, and put a main article link in the wall page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mastercheif (talk • contribs) 19:31, 1 September 2006

categories for Harvest and EMI records

Harvest Records has always been owned by EMI. Is it sensible to make Harvest into a subcategory of EMI, and delete the EMI category from any Harvest release (unless it has been reissued)? In case there's a precedent, I've also asked this same question in talk:WikiProject Albums. I think it also belongs under [Capitol Records], which can be streamlined the same fashion. This obviously wouldn't be done for albums that were not issued on Harvested, such as the post-Final Cut albums. One thing I'm not sure of — have the Harvested albums been reissued under just Capitol/EMI imprints (that don't say "Harvested")? edgarde 21:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Joining

I would like to join. I'm a big Pink Floyd fan. This is my first edit with this account, but I've made most edits just with my IP. --Dsotm 01:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Avast ye Floydians

I'd like to join as well. I did most of the work on the article for Roger Waters' 2006 tour, so, I might as well make it official. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vazor20X6 (talk • contribs) 14:57, 24 September 2006

I want to join

All my favorite albums and all I listen to is Pink Floyd (with some Green Day and Wierd Al). How do I join? --ASDFGHJKL 00:24, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Project Directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:43, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now put the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 00:29, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 18:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Links to fix

I am afraid that several links within Pink Floyd's related articles still need to be fixed. I just began fixing James Guthrie , that is not James Guthrie, American politician. Cheers. --Dr. Who 01:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Wiki Project Pink Floyd

Dear wikimates, I've recently sadly realized that a founder of this project, Dharmabum420, left Wikipedia a few months ago. I joined this project after him, but I've been away for several months myself. So, please accept my apologies for not having come here before. --Dr. Who 02:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Urgent edit is needed!

Can someone please add any available info regarding David Gilmour's last single version of Arnold Layne? --Dr. Who 16:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Um, one of our examples are off...

On the project's page, when discussing when not to use the Pink Floyd template, it says, "and is probably not necessary in articles about more peripheral subjects (eg. Jon Carin)". Well, there's one on Jon Carin's disscusion page. Should the example be changed, or should we remove it from his talk page? --ASDFGHJKL=Greatest Person Ever+Coolest Person Ever 18:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Credits

I have just noticed that someone has changed the layout of the credits section in the Meddle album article. Could we decide on a definitive layout for every album credit section, so that some sort of continuity can be maintained across the whole Pink Floyd album project. Should every credit section look like the one found in the Meddle article? Can i have your opinions please - Ummagumma23 19:48 2 April 2007 (UTC)

We should have just one definitive layout for every album credit section, to ensure a higher level of continuity across the whole Pink Floyd album project.Doktor Who 02:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

In The Flesh (disc 2) [Roger Waters]

In the track list, there's an error. Track 5 and 6 were switched, I think.

It has to be:

5. Perfect Sense (Parts I And II)

6. The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range

Djsiesel 14:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merge of A Tree Full of Secrets to List of Pink Floyd ROIOs

Hey guys, I'm proposing this merger on A Tree Full of Secrets talk page. Put in your opinion, or I will merge it in a week if I don't get any votes. --ASDFGHJKL=Greatest Person Ever+Coolest Person Ever 00:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

New member

I'm a huge Floyd fan so I've jsut signed up. I don't do a ton of editing, but I'll try and help otu with things here as I'm able Sir Elderberry 19:24, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Category:Pink Floyd tribute albums

FYI: Category:Pink Floyd tribute albums. Andy Mabbett 15:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

New urgent tasks

Two users of the project have been recently blocked, Pigsonthewing (a.k.a Andy Mabbett) and Dharmabum (the founder of this project). I regret that I have been inactive for many months, and couldn't do nothing for them.

Sadly, I see that A tree full of secrets and List of Pink floyd Rojos have been deleted, as well as most of pictures and sound samples that were uploaded by Dharmabum. See here, user Videamus Omnia (translated from latin to English would mean: we see everything) is also going to delete lots of images from several articles, maybe in the field of progressive rock, I guess. We urgently need to write some fair use/free use rationales.

Another important task is to check if the ppl listed as members of the project are currently active.--Doktor Who 01:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Why were Mr. Mabbett and Dharmabum blocked? NH 79.121.143.143 (talk) 23:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)14th Feb 08

Fair use rationales

Although i have been an editor on wikipedia for over a year, im not sure what i could write as a fair use rationale and because im not an administrator could i even write one? I see that we are losing images and song samples a lot these days so id like to help.Ummagumma23 08:54 24 August 2007 (UTC)

You don't need to be an administrator. Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline explains what you need to know.
Here are the handy templates: {{Album cover fur}}, {{Non-free album cover}}. I think both are needed. A typical entry might look like this:
{{Non-free album cover}}
{{album cover fur
   | Article = Animals (album)
   | Use = Infobox
   | Name = Animals
   | Artist = [[Pink Floyd]]
   | Label = [[EMI]]
   | Graphic Artist = [[Hipgnosis]]
   | Item = front cover
   | Type = album
   | Purpose = Illustrates the appearance of the album and identifies it by recognized features.
 }}
Consider the template documentation for more options.
For art other than album covers, use {{Non-free media rationale}} / edg ☺ ★ 08:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your help .Ummagumma23 20:04 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Pinkfloyd.jpg resolution downgrade

This needs to be done for all non-free images, including all album covers larger than 300px in either dimension. If we wait for images to be tagged, many or most will be deleted and lost before the tag is discovered.

Image:Pinkfloyd.jpg was tagged for deletion for being too high-resolution to be fair use in the Pink Floyd infobox. Per WP:NFCC#3b I reduced it to below 300px longest @ 72dpi.

Before
File:Pinkfloyd.jpg 		After
[[removed non-free images per WP:NFCC#9]]

Yes there is some loss, but this is the best I can get at this size and resolution.

I won't be doing many of these. For anyone who wants to help out, I left some (simple) instructions beneath the licensure info for the new image. That page also has a sample fair use rationale for Pink Floyd images. / edg ☺ ★ 22:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Update: I've performed this unpopular procedure for all album covers (studio, soundtracks, live, compilations, including those not in the succession), and added or updated Fair Use Rationales as needed. I did not do check the non front cover bonus images on The Dark Side of the Moon, or any non-album pages.
Still plenty of work to go around. / edg ☺ ★ 06:19, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


Many thanks for your help. ^_^ Doktor Who 13:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

New task

Is there any list that includes every article, even just peripherally, related to Pink Floyd? If not, we need to create one, step by step.Doktor Who 14:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Where should this list be placed? Im willing to do it Ummagumma23 18:56 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Centralized Talk Archive FAQ list

Maybe this is a stupid idea, but some discussion on Talk:Pink Floyd seemed better-suited to other article Talk pages, so I set up a centralized Talk Archive FAQ that could be transcluded to whatever page could benefit. Here's an example; note that the #FAQ is a page anchor so this section can be linked directly.

Hopefully this will help reduce redundant Talk page inquiries. I have not yet looked at other Talk archives for other suitable FAQ links. If no other Talk pages can use this box, I'll change Talk:Pink Floyd#FAQ back to non-transcluded and delete the centralized FAQ. / edg ☺ ★ 00:15, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Removed this. Worked okay, but couldn't find other Talk pages with archived content worth including, so the centralized approach just added needless complexity. How embarassing. / edg ☺ ★ 00:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Inflatable pigs on Roger Waters' tours

Torc2 and I can't seem to find a consensus on whether to have or not ot have a list of links at the bottom of the article [1]. Please see our discussion here: Talk:Inflatable pigs on Roger Waters' tours#Links to people etc. Any other opinions? --BeautifulFlying (talk) 00:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

BAD SOURCE to be avoided!

Hello. I'm a casual contributor to Wikipedia, but I've got a bug up my butt lately. I've started to notice that people are adding "facts" to Pink Floyd articles and citing a book called Another Brick In The Wall: The Stories Behind Every Pink Floyd Song. (I may be misremembering the title slightly.)

This book is chock full of major errors. Unfortunately, I've thrown my copy away, so it is hard to give examples. I remember such things as, a picture of Roger Waters (wearing granny glasses and a scarf) captioned as "David Gilmour" or perhaps it was "Syd Barrett". I remember the section on Wish You Were Here had a big square of "corrected" text pasted in. I remember the book claimed (at it's time of publication, sometime before 1998) that Syd Barrett was blind from diabetes complications, and confined to a hospital. It referred to lyrics incorrectly. One passage I recall: Remember when you were young / Black, black holes in the sun. Yes, I'm serious. I stared at that blatant, idiotic, unforgiveable error 'til my forehead bled! The guy who wrote this book was clearly NOT a Pink Floyd fan, but merely interested in making money in a lucrative niche. (I suspect Floyd-related books sell nearly as well as the forty zillion Beatles-related books currently in circulation.)

Okay, so that's my point: ABITW:TSBEPFS, or whatever it's called, is an INVALID source and must be avoided. Agree? Disagree? How can we let this be widely known?

--63.25.25.233 (talk) 05:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi there! I agree wholeheartedly about the book in question. I have a first edition copy and it was called "Echoes: the story behind every Pink Floyd song" by Cliff Jones and it does indeed contain a photo of Waters labelled as Gilmour! Cliff Jones was the singer of a flash in the pan band called "Gay Dad" (!) and Gilmour got an injunction against him to stop any more copies of the book being published. Gilmour even offered to help him re-write it but Jones declined. As far as I knew this book had been long deleted but whatever. it is laughable and should not under any circumstances be cited as a source.

Furthermore I have found numerous innacuracies where Fitch and Mahon's books have been cited. However as I don't own their books I shall reserve judgment and assume that there is another reason for this. NH 79.121.143.143 (talk) 22:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)14th Feb 08

Wow! I had no idea. Gilmour got involved?!? Fantastic -- what a guy! And yes, I remember the name Cliff Jones, now. That was the book.
I am a little concerned about the Fitch Pink Floyd Encyclopedia. For example, under "Summer '68", it credits Rick Wright with playing the trumpet, and that's the only reference to what sounds like an orchestra to me (or, at least, a whole brass section.) I thought it was understood that "Summer '68" made use of the same orchestra featured on the "Atom Heart Mother Suite".
Oh, but I think "Gay Dad" is one of the best band names ever.  ;) --63.25.31.42 (talk) 16:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Equally bad was the Karl Dallas book from 1987 entitled: "Bricks in the Wall" which has a photo of Gilmour on stage with Roy harper and labels it from the Unknown Soldier Tour. The picture is from at least five years before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.121.143.143 (talk) 06:36, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Ugh, the Karl Dallas book was horrible in so many ways! Mostly, because it's more about Karl Dallas's personality and feelings than any other topic. Any idea why Dallas thought it was relevant to compare Pink Floyd (unfavorably) to Frank Zappa so often? Then there were the pointless musical mistakes: Claiming the intro to "Scarecrow" consists only of the "black" keys -- hardly; it's in E pentatonic minor (maybe Karl's turntable was slow?) Or that the instrumental in "Matilda Mother" is on a B minor chord (Try F# Major!) Then there were mangled lyric quotes. Then again, inexplicable little things like

" . . . 'Who Needs Information', with its echoes of Lou Reed's 'Walk On The Wild Side'"

HUH?!? Having listened to both songs, oh, say, half a billion times, I can't think of ONE respect in which they are at ALL similar. Any ideas?!? But worst of all . . . page 172:

"I wonder if Roger remembers it was Dave who wrote so powerfully about being 'Comfortably Numb' in The Wall"

This was so egregious that Waters (who claims not to read books about PF, heh heh) actually remarked on it. Gilmour, of course, didn't write jack-shit about being "Comfortably Numb"; he wrote a lovely chord sequence that Waters took and put his own lyrics on. I mean, Gilmour doesn't even claim to have invented the title, much less the lyrics. It's offensive enough for Dallas enough to have made this basic mistake (to presume that Gilmour wrote any Wall lyrics), but what's worse is that he's doing it in the context of explaining why he thinks A Momentary Lapse of Reason is such a far better album than Radio KAOS. (Which is a fair enough opinion to have, but not if it's based on erroneous beliefs about Gilmour's accomplishments.)
So, yeah, I would definitely nominate Bricks in the Wall as an invalid source, except for the exclusive interviews contained therein. --63.25.31.42 (talk) 16:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

CD booklets get the lyrics wrong (or do they)?!

Seriously. I expect to get a lot of criticism for saying this, but the CD booklets often have incorrect lyrics. I know, that sounds unlikely, but it's true. One good example is "Take Up Thy Stethoscope and Walk". Follow the booklet while listening and see for yourself. I'm referring to the section that goes "Ah, me / Go, go / Please explain / You spoke / To me" The booklet has phrases like "Gruel ghoul, greasy spoon, dark doom", which are plausibly the kind of lyrics Waters would write, but cleary aren't being sung.

Another great example is the bridge to "Summer '68" -- You can see my comments on the Talk page there.

Then there's "Fat Old Sun": "A silver sound from a tongue so strange"? Damn! Even if the studio recording sounds ambiguous there, check out the live versions, such as the one on Atom Heart Mother Goes On The Road: It's "a TIME so strange".

But it's Meddle which might be the cake-taker: There's at least one error in the booklet for every song except "Echoes"!

It really is quite strange that such a lyric-oriented band would allow their CD booklets to have so many errors. I actually wonder if it's the absence of Roger Waters that makes the difference. One can imagine the ol' control freak, bless him, insisting on proof-reading before allowing the booklets to be printed! Anyway, these errors are bound to seep into Wikipedia articles here and there. What should we do? Should we do anything?

--63.25.3.92 (talk) 09:53, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Well you should expect a lot of criticism! Where on "Stethescope" is there anything about "Ah, me / go go / please explain / you spoke / to me"??

When the song breaks out of the initial "You Really Got Me" riff, and descends to E. A lead guitar riff enters immediately after "Ah, me". (I ask you, where the hell does anybody sing the phrase "dark doom"?!?)

Summer '68 I'd always heard Charlotte Pringle's due (long before the words were published) because that's what Wright sings.

I understand hearing "childlike" as "Charlotte" . . . but "Pringles" for "bangles"??? (What would that even mean, anyway?)
Are you claiming you heard an apostrophe? ("Pringle's" and not "Pringles".)
And how could you have heard the word "due" when that word is indistinguishable from more common words like "do" or "dew", not to mention the word actually sung, "too"? Are you lying?
It's "childlike bangles, too" in the sheet music book published in 1980.

Likewise the lyrics to Fat old Sun are definitely "Tongue" and I've just listened to both the Album (particularly clear on the second verse) and also the live BBC broadcast from The Paris Theatre, London in 1970.

Now you're just being contrary. (If you hadn't gone on to do this needlessly insulting "I've buried Paul" stuff, I'd assume good faith.) Anyway, it's "a time so strange" in the sheet music, published 1980.

As for Echoes, I have just checked the lyrics in the book from the "Shine on.." box set. They are 100% accurate. I'm afraid you appear to be suffering from "I've buried Paul" syndrome.

Nobody's talking about "Echoes" OR the Shine On box set.

That is: a lot of people (mainly Americans) thought that Lennon was saying "I've buried Paul" at the end of "Strawberry Fields...". He was quite clearly saying "Cranberry Sauce". Even when Lennon categorically stated it was cranberry sauce, they wouldn't believe him!!. NH 79.121.143.143 (talk) 23:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)14th Feb 08

Can I ask you for a citation on that "mainly Americans" thing? Because, honestly, and with all due respect, I think you just pulled that out of your ass. Which tells us a lot about your responses here. --63.25.31.42 (talk) 16:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I've only just found this page again. If you mean that I was being insulting when I said "mainly Americans" it wasn't intended as a slight. It may have been more appropriate to say that the rumour started in America. Also I realised just after I'd saved it that I had misunderstood you regarding Echoes. My misunderstanding. So far as everything else I've said, I stand by it. Firstly, your attitude [NOT EXACT QUOTE]"you can stop wondering who "Charlotte Pringle" is 'cos nobody sang about her"[NOT EXACT QUOTE] is profoundly arrogant. You mention Warner Brothers' 1980 anthology. Well Warner Bros have never been Pink Floyd's publishers. Whereas Pink Floyd Music Publishers Ltd are not only the publishers of the lyrics in the AHM booklet, they are also owned by PF. It is their own company. It is the Anthology which is wrong. Since I presume you are American, I would state that an English person such as Richard Wright does not pronounce the word "due" the same as "do". No English person would. It is clearly "due" AS IT STATES IN THE BOOKLET. The whole song is about him being tired of one night stands whilst touring:

My friends are lying in the sun I wish that I was there. Tomorrow brings another town, another girl like you. Have you time, before you leave to greet another man, just to let me know: How do you feel?

Goodbye to you. Charlotte Pringle's due (ie Charlotte Pringle is due) I've had enough for one day.

In other words the next Groupie is due to arrive. OK so he gave her a name. Who is Eleanor Rigby?

The apostrophe is in the booklet. You then suggest I am lying and being contrary.

As for "tongue so strange". "Tongue" in this instance means "language". In fact on Gilmour's recent DVD he sings "in a tongue so strange" rather than "from a tongue so strange", in other words: In a language so strange.

Anyway, I can't really be bothered to go on any more because anybody who claims to be insulted and then suggests that I've pulled something out of my "ass" (sic) is not really capable of the reasoned debate we expect on Wikipedia. Try YouTube.NH89.243.99.1 (talk) 01:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, by the way....you asked for a citation for the "I buried Paul" thing. Well I just Googled "I buried Paul" and this is the first in a long list: http://www.turnmeondeadman.net/IBP/Intro.php. Here it says: "The story caught fire with the public when it was broadcast by a Detroit Radio Station. Russell Gibb, a disc jockey for WKNR.FM........". As far as I know, Detroit is in the USA. It is most definitely not up my "ass" (sic). Also, Wikipedia guidelines say that you should post your comments at the bottom of the section. It does not suggest breaking up the previous comment by adding ill-informed remarks where you see fit.NH89.243.237.81 (talk) 15:44, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, if you object to your comments being broken up with responses, I'll just quote you and waste the space.

First of all, I don't think anybody's convinced that somehow I started the insulting tone. You claim to be insulted by something I said to someone else on the "Summer '68" Talk page?

Firstly, your attitude "you can stop wondering who "Charlotte Pringle" is 'cos[sic] nobody sang about her" [NOT EXACT QUOTE] is profoundly arrogant.

Is it? Arrogant? "Profoundly arrogant", and not just "arrogant"? How so? And is "arrogant" the same as "personally insulting", as your comments were? Could it be you're merely interpreting my comment (which wasn't addressed to you) as "arrogant" due to your English perspective? Here in America we say things like that ("You can stop worrying/wondering/thinking/etc.") all the time, and nobody gets insulted! Most importantly, however, this thing was not said here, to you, and thus serves as NO justification for your repeated insulting comments. Such as:

You say "Well[,] you should expect a lot of criticism!" and then challenge me on "Stethoscope". I answered your question and asked you one in return. You can't tell me when the phrase "dark doom" (or "gruel ghoul, greasy spoon", or any of that nonsense) is sung, because it never is. So you just ignore the question. That's rude.

As for the Warner Bros. anthology, it's immaterial that they weren't PF's publishers. On the title page for each and every song reads "All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission." And if this book was prone to getting the lyrics wrong, I'd have found something blatant -- something you and I could agree on -- and honestly, I haven't. It's been lyrically and musically very reliable (within the context of a piano-guitar-voice arrangement, not a complete score, that is).

Now, if the British really do pronounce "due" and "do" differently, that's interesting, I didn't know that, and I do apologize. You might have thought to advise us of this, but I understand why it didn't occur to you (After all, you found it fitting to (incorrectly) add [sic] to my use of "ass", but then go on to quote me using "'cos", which I didn't, and as an American, would never do. Maybe I'm misunderstanding why you used [sic], but "ass" is a correct spelling and pronounciation of a certain word in American English. And while "'cos" might be considered correct slang in British English, I must say it's quite inferior to our "'cause", which at least looks like the word it's short for, "because". Anyway, in the true quote I simply used "because". Please don't misquote me again.) Having said all that, I've watched quite a lot of British TV programming (we call it "TV", not "telly"; please don't add a [sic]) and never noticed any significant difference between "due", "do", "dew", etc. Perhaps a slightly more staccato delivery of "do"? A little lingering over "due"? Nothing I can especially remember. Seriously. But, if you insist, okay: I'm sorry.

Regarding your interpretation of the lyrics (i.e., "Goodbye to you, the next groupie, whose name is Charlotte Pringles, is due"), okay, there's nothing particularly wrong with that . . . but then, "Goodbye to you, groupie, with your tacky dress, such as those childlike bangles" is just as legitimate an interpretation . . . and interpretations are all you or I have. As for "Eleanor Rigby", that was a well-realized character sketch. The entire song was (mostly) about that one person and her world. "Summer '68" is not at all that kind of song. "Eleanor Rigby" was not just a throwaway lyric, a brief and trivial reference.

The apostrophe is in the booklet. You then suggest I am lying and being contrary.

Not so.

First of all, I asked you directly, "Are you lying?" I did not suggest. Secondly, I never questioned, much less accused you of lying about, whether or not there's an apostrophe in the booklet. The comments of mine you're referring to came after this comment of yours:

Summer '68 I'd always heard Charlotte Pringle's due (long before the words were published) [CUT]

It had nothing to do with the booklet whatsoever. It had to do with your ability to hear an apostrophe, or the difference between "too", "do", "due", "dew", etc. Which reminds me, since my contention is that that word is "too" -- which word does that most sound like in British English? "do", "due", "dew", etc.?

Now, I haven't bothered to listen to Gilmour's recent work, such as this live DVD you mention. Obviously, if he sings "in a [time/tongue]" rather than "from a", that would somewhat (but not entirely) support your contention. Still sounds pretty clear to me that he sang "time" in the original recording. And that is what's in the original sheet music, which hasn't proven itself wrong in any definitive way yet.

I think you should look back on my original post to this section, and ask yourself why you feel compelled to jump in with any personal comments, whether they were "insulting" or just merely . . . off. "I'm afraid you appear to be suffering from 'I've buried Paul' syndrome'?" Regardless of whether you intended it as insulting or not, it was still a personal comment, and THAT is what's discouraged on Wikipedia: Attack the argument, not the person.

You were unable to refute my contentions without making personal comments about me. That says a lot about the weakness of your position. (That, and the fact that you've ignored my question about the "Stethoscope" lyrics.)

(Perhaps I should have turned the other cheek to your insulting personal comments, but fuck it -- I'm not a Christian, anyway. I give as good as I get. That's all you're complaining about, here: That I didn't just back down in the face of your bullying.)

And if you don't understand how your comment ("I'm afraid you appear to be suffering from 'I've buried Paul' syndrome") was insulting, you must be well over forty years old, because anybody of Generation X or younger knows of "I buried Paul" as a misheard lyric; there is no debate about whether or not Lennon might have actually sang it. It's the most infamously misheard lyric in pop music history . . . not to mention the seed of an outrageous rumor (that McCartney was actually dead) . . . and you're comparing it to the ambiguity between "bangles" and "pringles", between "due" and "too".

Finally, it's irrelevant if that rumor was started in Detroit, because it was certaintly taken up by plenty of British fans. (Oh, and incidentally, the misheard version is "I buried Paul", not "I've".)
--63.25.181.105 (talk) 03:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

My response was as a result of observing all your contributions to the Pink Floyd and related articles on WP and the tone was set by you. I have since decided not to respond to any of your comments (with the exception of this one) and I suggest you do the same regarding mine. I am not over forty, though I fail to see the relevance of my age, and unlike you, I do sign my initials so that people know that when an IP address changes, the comments are from the same person. NH89.240.234.38 (talk) 00:09, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

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