Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/9th Missouri Sharpshooter Battalion

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Gog the Mild (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 21:20, 8 March 2023 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

9th Missouri Sharpshooter Battalion[edit]

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Nominator(s): Hog Farm (talk)

9th Missouri Sharpshooter Battalion (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Unless I've forgotten about one, this will be my first Missouri CSA unit to ACR in over a year. This one was a scrappy sharpshooters unit that stood out somewhat at the Battle of Helena, but played a pretty pedestrian role in the rest of the war.

Yes, I'm aware of a short book on this unit titled "The Bravest of the Brave: Pindall's 9th Missouri Battalion of Sharpshooters" but the publisher of that book has a rather wide quality range (they've published recognized subject-matter expert James McGhee, but also some iffy neo-Confederate stuff) so I've avoided using it. It's held by a few semi-local public libraries so I can get ahold of it if deemed necessary, but I'm not inclined to use it unless source quality can be strongly established. Hog Farm Talk 03:53, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA[edit]

  • It looks like Bearss is an old source from 60 years ago. Is there another recent source that covers his claims? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 20:11, 8 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • @CPA-5: - Bearss is still considered to be one of the greater Civil War historians of recent times, so I think citing his work should be fine, especially since one of the two citations is just an attributed estimate of casualties. I've got a more recent book by Bearss (late 80s or early 90s) that also has a chapter on Helena, so I'll try to consult that as well. Hog Farm Talk 14:25, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • @CPA-5: - I've swapped out the two 1961 refs with cites to a more recent book by Bearss (which is largely identical to his 1961 journal article). I found a 2017 PhD thesis about civil war Helena that I'll add to the Battle of Helena article when I get a chance, but the thesis has only a single passing mention to this unit. Hog Farm Talk 02:09, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "When a Confederate force attacked the Union-held city" Is there an article for the attack? If so link it.
    • I've rephrased the sentence this appears in
  • "commanded by Major Lebbeus A. Pindall" Maybe specify which major article you want to link?
    • There's no special article on the CSA major, but I can link it to the functionally similar US Army rank if you think that would be an improvement
  • "The unit suffered 3 casualties during" --> "The unit suffered three casualties during" Per MOS:NUMERAL.
    • Done
  • "the French presence in Mexico" Explain a bit more I can assume that some people wouldn't know why they were there.
  • "commanded by Colonel Simon P. Burns" Link for Burns and link colonel to Confederate colonel page.
    • There's no Confederate colonel page, and given that it was essentially identical to the main US Army rank, I don't think there will ever be one. I've redlinked Burns - not 100% sold there's enough to base a decent article about him on, but he served two terms in the Texas legislature and was apparently involved in the prosecution of John Wesley Hardin, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt
  • "back about 0.25 miles (0.40 km)" Round it to 0.4 km?
    • Done
  • "was aligned in the front of Parsons' brigade" --> "was aligned in front of Parsons' brigade"?
    • Done

That's everything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 12:28, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • @CPA-5: Replies above - mostly addressed, with one query on the Major link. Hog Farm Talk 00:14, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks great changed it to support. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:44, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

  • Sources are known to be RS
  • Notes, References and Sources are properly formatted--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:18, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

  • All images are properly licensed.
  • I know that the Western Theater is poorly documented photographically, but is there any relevant newspaper illustrations that can be used?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:21, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • The best I'm aware of is File:Battle of Pleasant Hill Louisiana.JPG. I can't find anything for Jenkins' Ferry, Helena appears to have been overlooked because of the much more interesting Vicksburg stuff going on nearby and at the same time, and the only one I've turned up for Prairie Grove depicts a Union charge on the complete other side of the battlefield from where this unit was engaged. Hog Farm Talk 01:25, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yeah, I'm not thrilled by that image either. Supporting.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 14:45, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Sturmvogel_66[edit]

  • I'd suggest consolidating the casualties tallies in the Helena section as they only differ by 4 wounded men
  • Confederate attacks and Jenkins' Ferry?
  • Besides those who died when Kentucky sank, 17 were killed in action and a further 24 died of various diseases. What period are you talking about here?
  • Nicely done--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:20, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Vami[edit]

Reserving a spot. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 22:50, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • The unit saw action at the Battle of Prairie Grove in December 1862. Was this its first fight? The infobox and indeed the rest of the lead put the unit in several other scraps.
    • Rephrased
  • Opposing the secessionists was the Union Army. Were there US Army garrisons in Arkansas in 1861 and if so, where were they? And why not refer to the US Army as such?
    • The context of the passage is more Missouri, which had a couple arsenals (big one in St. Louis and a small one in Liberty), but nothing like what was present in say, Texas. I'm a bit hesitant to add too much background detail after it caused problems at a recent FAC
    • I've gone ahead and changed all references to "Union Army" to "Federal Army" or "Federals". From what I've seen, the use of the term "Union" is starting to fall out of academic usage in order to place less emphasis on the right of secession and more emphasis on the other aspects of the war. At least in what I've read, "Federal" seems to be the next most common term to describe this force. Hog Farm Talk 23:51, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • On April 21, 1862, the Confederate States Congress created an authorization for each brigade of infantry to be assigned a battalion of sharpshooters. "created an authorization" sounds... clumsy. "They created the ability [to make]". Condense?
    • Condensed
  • On December 6, the battalion, along with the rest of Parsons' brigade and some Arkansas cavalry advanced to Reed's Mountain, which controlled the Cane Hill road. Seems to be a comma missing after "cavalry". To avoid having too many of the things, consider restructuring the sentence.
    • Rephrased and split into two sentences
  • He sent Pindall's battalion into the fray. Not long before sundown, the Union forces withdrew off of the mountain in the face of a Confederate attack. In the face of Pindall's attack, or...? Would suffice to just say the Feds withdrew.
    • Have lopped off everything after "mountain"
  • The next day, in the Battle of Prairie Grove, [...] Recommend replacing with "On December 7," to match up with the lead and because the previous date that this is referencing is an entire paragraph ago.
    • Done
  • In August, Parsons used Pindall's battalion and part of the 10th Missouri Infantry Regiment to force men of a cavalry unit to transfer to an artillery battery. What does this mean? Was there a mutiny?
    • Kinda, but it's complicated. Have added a touch more detail
  • [...] during the time the battalion existed. Recommend condensing to "during the battalion's existence."
    • Done
  • @Vami IV: - Have addressed all of these (I think). Have done a switch from "Union" to "Federal" throughout Hog Farm Talk 23:51, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Harrias[edit]

  • I know there is a bit of an MOS:ENGVAR thing going on, but I find "Governor of Missouri Claiborne Fox Jackson.." really awkward. Jackson's title would be simply "Governor Claiborne Fox Jackson", so I would prefer "The Governor of Missouri, Claiborne Fox Jackson, .." This would also solve the MOS:SEAOFBLUE issue.
    • Done
  • "..do not appear to have been.." As this conveys an opinion, ideally it should be attributed in the prose whose belief it is, to avoid any concerns of WP:OR.
    • Done
  • Be consistent whether to use "Parsons' brigade" or "Parsons' brigade".
    • Should be standardized now
  • "When the cavalrymen and there officers.." Should be "their", not "there".
    • Done
  • "August also saw.." August is inanimate, it can't see anything.
    • Rephrased
  • "..was formally designed the.." Should "designed" be "designated" here?
    • Oops, fixed
  • "..when news of the surrender of the Confederate forces of Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston to the east arrived." This would probably be easier to read if arrived was switched earlier in the sentence: "..when news arrived of the surrender of the Confederate forces of Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston to the east."
    • Done

Overall, a nice article. Harrias (he/him) • talk 13:31, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Harrias: have actionaed all comments here. Hog Farm Talk 14:28, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Excellent. I removed one further instance of "Parsons's" that I spotted, but otherwise, a really good article, well done. Harrias (he/him) • talk 20:27, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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