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August 6[edit]
Peas and pasta[edit]
I've been obsessing about peas today. My two-part question follows: 1) What are the most notable dishes made with peas? I love pea soup, but that's as far as my knowledge goes. I think I remember there being a notable Indian dish? I also know that many new vegan dishes use peas, but they aren't that great. 2) Why do peas seem to go so well with pasta? What is it that makes pasta and peas work so well together? I will often just put pasta into pea soup and it's glorious. Viriditas (talk) 07:51, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- While I don't endorse this sort of sacrilege, some people add peas to tuna casserole. Peas are also a common ingredient in pot pies. -- Avocado (talk) 15:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Starch? They're both pretty high-energy. Mind you by that logic bananas should also fit into the mix. We have List of legume dishes. The Indian dish may be Aloo mutter (peas with potatoes and several million spices) or Mattar paneer (peas with cheese and several million spices and, hey, maybe some potatoes, and rice and naan and yogurt and ...) Rice and peas is a well-known dish, but you'll often encounter it made with kidney beans and no peas. I note the similarity to your peas and pasta: for a middle ground, you might try peas and orzo (or couscous, which is the same concept but smaller). Many relatives of pease pudding exist around Europe, for instance in Latvia it's grey peas (which I will now add to the list of legume dishes). Card Zero (talk) 08:23, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you. I will need to make aloo mutter at home and try out the other dishes. I need to go to the store and stock up on peas. Viriditas (talk) 09:05, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- There's also Dal, which is made with any available pulse (that just means legume). Some of these dishes use peas which are not Pisum sativum, see List of crops known as peas: pigeon peas get a lot of use, or cow peas as in Hoppin' John (peas and rice again). Card Zero (talk) 09:14, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you. I will need to make aloo mutter at home and try out the other dishes. I need to go to the store and stock up on peas. Viriditas (talk) 09:05, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- Pretty much any soup or stew is enhanced by adding peas. As you mentioned, they go well with most pasta dishes. Casseroles as well. If you want to get a bit edgy, mashed peas can be added to most mashed dishes. I've added peas to guacamole, deviled eggs, and mashed potatoes. It worked well with each. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 16:03, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- Mushy peas. --Lambiam 19:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- How odd that this hasn't caught on in the US. It sounds divine. Viriditas (talk) 10:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- A nice piece of Cod & chips* from the local chippy** served with mushy peas and either a pickled onion or pickled egg. That's luxury. [For Americans: *=thick french fries, **=Fish and chip shop, serves hot takeaway food] Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- Martin of Sheffield, there are plenty of fish and chips shops in the United States, and everyone knows what they are. I live in a small town, and there is a fish and chips shop here. Cullen328 (talk) 17:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Cullen328, fair enough. The last time I was in the USA travelling around was in 1974 and I can't say we ever saw a fish and chip ship then. Certainly I know that some Americans visiting this country weren't aware that "chippy" = fish and chip shop. No offence was intended, just that in my limited experience the terms might have been unfamiliar. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- It's unfortunate that Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips is pretty much a thing of the past here in America. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:15, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Martin of Sheffield, in the 1970s, there was a US chain called Arthur Treacher's Fish & Chips that had 826 stores. I was working in San Francisco back then, and there was one a short walk away from my office. I ate there many times. Admittedly, there are far more hamburger outlets. Cullen328 (talk) 21:20, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Cullen328: when I lived in the city, I used to go to an authentic fish and chips place on Polk Street. Is that the same place? They would serve the fish and chips in newspaper with vinegar and other condiments on the side. I don't recall there being any plates. A very strange place, but the vibe was real and authentic. I kept expecting pirates to walk in any moment. Viriditas (talk) 07:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Viriditas, no, this place was on Geary Boulevard just west of Fillmore Street, very close to the famous rock and roll venue The Fillmore. I was working at Kaiser Hospital back then. Right next door was an outlet of "Your Black Muslim Bakery", where I used to buy little sweet potato pies. They were happy to take my money. Polk Street was further east, closer to downtown. I lived just off Polk Street back then, in apartments on Bush Street and Pine Street, on what we used to call "Lower Nob Hill", and spent a lot of time in that neighborhood. A couple of years later, my wife briefly operated a word processing business in that neighborhood called "Word Works". It sounds so quaint now. Cullen328 (talk) 07:49, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Cullen328 do you remember the Scandinavian restaurant in upper Market between Castro and Church? That place was an institution. The unofficial rule was no talking allowed, and people came there to eat Scandinavian cuisine and read the newspaper. It was run by their entire family, and I'm fairly certain they served peas with the reverse buffet style (cafeteria behind the counter) dishes. Can you imagine a restaurant today where no talking was allowed? Good times. That whole area had an old Scandinavian influence, with the Swedish American Hall (Cafe du Nord) across the street. Fascinating history to boot. I believe the owner of the Cafe came to SF from Finland in the early 20th century, along with many others. Viriditas (talk) 08:14, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Viriditas, no, this place was on Geary Boulevard just west of Fillmore Street, very close to the famous rock and roll venue The Fillmore. I was working at Kaiser Hospital back then. Right next door was an outlet of "Your Black Muslim Bakery", where I used to buy little sweet potato pies. They were happy to take my money. Polk Street was further east, closer to downtown. I lived just off Polk Street back then, in apartments on Bush Street and Pine Street, on what we used to call "Lower Nob Hill", and spent a lot of time in that neighborhood. A couple of years later, my wife briefly operated a word processing business in that neighborhood called "Word Works". It sounds so quaint now. Cullen328 (talk) 07:49, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Cullen328: when I lived in the city, I used to go to an authentic fish and chips place on Polk Street. Is that the same place? They would serve the fish and chips in newspaper with vinegar and other condiments on the side. I don't recall there being any plates. A very strange place, but the vibe was real and authentic. I kept expecting pirates to walk in any moment. Viriditas (talk) 07:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Martin of Sheffield, in the 1970s, there was a US chain called Arthur Treacher's Fish & Chips that had 826 stores. I was working in San Francisco back then, and there was one a short walk away from my office. I ate there many times. Admittedly, there are far more hamburger outlets. Cullen328 (talk) 21:20, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- It's unfortunate that Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips is pretty much a thing of the past here in America. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:15, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Cullen328, fair enough. The last time I was in the USA travelling around was in 1974 and I can't say we ever saw a fish and chip ship then. Certainly I know that some Americans visiting this country weren't aware that "chippy" = fish and chip shop. No offence was intended, just that in my limited experience the terms might have been unfamiliar. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Martin of Sheffield, there are plenty of fish and chips shops in the United States, and everyone knows what they are. I live in a small town, and there is a fish and chips shop here. Cullen328 (talk) 17:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- A nice piece of Cod & chips* from the local chippy** served with mushy peas and either a pickled onion or pickled egg. That's luxury. [For Americans: *=thick french fries, **=Fish and chip shop, serves hot takeaway food] Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- How odd that this hasn't caught on in the US. It sounds divine. Viriditas (talk) 10:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- It's common here in Australia for paella to include peas. No idea if that's normal elsewhere in the world, especially Spain. HiLo48 (talk) 23:15, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- I've only had paella once, at a restaurant in San Francisco, and I do believe it had peas in the dish, but very few and sparse. I never ordered the dish again because it frightens me. There's too much going on, and I don't eat that kind of food anymore anyway, but I will always remember it. Viriditas (talk) 10:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- The article on Paella d'arròs in the Catalan Wikipedia states that its internationalization has led to the creation of dishes called "paella" that have little to do with the Valencian original: Alguna hi afegeix pèsols, arròs marró i vi. ("Some use peas, brown rice and wine.") --Lambiam 11:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- I completely agree. It's like going to Taco Bell and ordering Mexican food. I don't know what it is that they have on their menu, but it's not Mexican food. Viriditas (talk) 11:14, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- Valencian paella is of course not the only paella, and any peasant food will traditionally have contained whatever was available. Snobbery, however, is eternal and universal. DuncanHill (talk) 14:30, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- There’s no snobbery. Just as Chinese food in the US isn’t Chinese, Taco Bell isn’t Mexican. Perhaps you’re not familiar with this phenomenon. Taco Bell is an Americanized version of Mexican food that you can’t find in Mexican cuisine. Hard shell tacos are the most famous example, with ground beef in tacos another. The company has even admitted they aren’t Mexican food in trade magazines. Viriditas (talk) 20:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- I was talking about paella, that's why I mentioned paella and linked to an article about paella. If I had been talking about Taco Bell I expect I would have mentioned it. DuncanHill (talk) 21:56, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- Glen Bell never claimed Taco Bell served Mexican food. From the beginning, it was described as Mexican inspired food. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 20:31, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you. I think the "Taco Bell is not Mexican food" debate was settled years ago, so I would prefer to not revisit it. Much more interesting and absolutely fascinating to levels that I never imagined, is the "American Chinese food is not Chinese food" debate, which has never really concluded. Look at the debate occurring within Chop suey, for example. Or the taste tests and surveys given to Chinese nationals who sample US Chinese food. Anyway, to circle back, my first childhood memories of eating peas comes from eating American Chinese food, particularly sizzling rice soup and green pea stir fry. Viriditas (talk) 21:05, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- My first childhood memories of eating peas are of picking them in the back garden then sitting on the kitchen steps with Mum shelling them and eating them fresh from the pod. DuncanHill (talk) 21:56, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- That's wonderful, but we couldn't grow peas in our SFBA garden (you couldn't, they require temps between 13-18°C); we only had fruit trees: plums, cherries, pears, and apples. The cherries were the best. Looking online, it says that peas only grow well in two counties in California, San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara. Viriditas (talk) 22:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- Duncan, I have the exact same memory, except it was my grandmother, and the peas were bought. But it was the back step for sure. And Nan's rule was that I had to whistle while I shelled them, otherwise I'd be tempted to eat them. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:45, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- My first childhood memories of eating peas are of picking them in the back garden then sitting on the kitchen steps with Mum shelling them and eating them fresh from the pod. DuncanHill (talk) 21:56, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you. I think the "Taco Bell is not Mexican food" debate was settled years ago, so I would prefer to not revisit it. Much more interesting and absolutely fascinating to levels that I never imagined, is the "American Chinese food is not Chinese food" debate, which has never really concluded. Look at the debate occurring within Chop suey, for example. Or the taste tests and surveys given to Chinese nationals who sample US Chinese food. Anyway, to circle back, my first childhood memories of eating peas comes from eating American Chinese food, particularly sizzling rice soup and green pea stir fry. Viriditas (talk) 21:05, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- There’s no snobbery. Just as Chinese food in the US isn’t Chinese, Taco Bell isn’t Mexican. Perhaps you’re not familiar with this phenomenon. Taco Bell is an Americanized version of Mexican food that you can’t find in Mexican cuisine. Hard shell tacos are the most famous example, with ground beef in tacos another. The company has even admitted they aren’t Mexican food in trade magazines. Viriditas (talk) 20:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- Valencian paella is of course not the only paella, and any peasant food will traditionally have contained whatever was available. Snobbery, however, is eternal and universal. DuncanHill (talk) 14:30, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- I completely agree. It's like going to Taco Bell and ordering Mexican food. I don't know what it is that they have on their menu, but it's not Mexican food. Viriditas (talk) 11:14, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- The article on Paella d'arròs in the Catalan Wikipedia states that its internationalization has led to the creation of dishes called "paella" that have little to do with the Valencian original: Alguna hi afegeix pèsols, arròs marró i vi. ("Some use peas, brown rice and wine.") --Lambiam 11:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- I've only had paella once, at a restaurant in San Francisco, and I do believe it had peas in the dish, but very few and sparse. I never ordered the dish again because it frightens me. There's too much going on, and I don't eat that kind of food anymore anyway, but I will always remember it. Viriditas (talk) 10:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- Petits pois à la Français [1] [2] (basically peas, onions and ham in stock).
- Pease pudding (very traditional English fare, but not terribly pleasant in my humble opinion).
- Pea soup (much nicer)
- Alansplodge (talk) 14:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- "Pease porridge hot / Pease porridge cold / Pease porridge in the pot / Nine days old. PE-YEW!" -- Daffy Duck ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:55, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- I've known that rhyme since school in the 1960s as "Pease pudding hot / Pease pudding cold / Pease pudding in the pot / Nine days old". I came across it on "Listen with Mother", a BBC radio program for the under 5s. Where did you come across the "pease porridge" variant? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:09, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- I've always known it as "Pease pudding" too, but the Opies have it as Pease Porridge Hot. DuncanHill (talk) 22:18, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- Pease Porridge Hot has "pudding" as an alternate title. Figgy pudding sounds a lot more appealing than pudding made from peas. :( ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:20, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- I've always known it as "Pease pudding" too, but the Opies have it as Pease Porridge Hot. DuncanHill (talk) 22:18, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- I've known that rhyme since school in the 1960s as "Pease pudding hot / Pease pudding cold / Pease pudding in the pot / Nine days old". I came across it on "Listen with Mother", a BBC radio program for the under 5s. Where did you come across the "pease porridge" variant? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:09, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- "Pease porridge hot / Pease porridge cold / Pease porridge in the pot / Nine days old. PE-YEW!" -- Daffy Duck ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:55, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- I have suddenly realised that nobody here has yet mentioned the Pie floater, an Australian dish, particularly common in Adelaide, consisting of a meat pie in a thick pea soup, typically with the addition of tomato sauce. HiLo48 (talk) 00:29, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- How much tomato sauce does it take to disguise it? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:41, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- That's naturally a matter of personal taste, but I should clarify that tomato sauce also has a special meaning in Australia, similar to American ketchup. Using the squeeze bottle shown in that link, one can create meaningful works of art. HiLo48 (talk) 00:48, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Like a culinary version of Jackson Pollock. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:51, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- That's naturally a matter of personal taste, but I should clarify that tomato sauce also has a special meaning in Australia, similar to American ketchup. Using the squeeze bottle shown in that link, one can create meaningful works of art. HiLo48 (talk) 00:48, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- How much tomato sauce does it take to disguise it? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:41, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Surprised no one has mentioned pasta primavera as yet. While the ingredient list is rather fluid, fresh green garden peas are very common. The main infobox image even features them. --Jayron32 18:05, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Good catch. It occurs to me, that I had that dish countless times in the 1970s and 1980s but it escaped my mind. So much for reinventing the wheel. I can't help notice that it's odd that the article says the dish was invented in the 1970s. Surely, someone in Italy had the idea before that time? Viriditas (talk) 23:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- I'm sure that people have been eating vegetables and pasta together on the same plate since time immemorial. I'm pretty sure the main invention was giving it a name and putting that name on a menu. --Jayron32 13:57, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- And pricing accordingly. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:23, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- I'm sure that people have been eating vegetables and pasta together on the same plate since time immemorial. I'm pretty sure the main invention was giving it a name and putting that name on a menu. --Jayron32 13:57, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Italian cuisine has simplicity as one of its core values, in the sense that dishes should have few ingredients, all of high quality. Pasta e piselli and risotto con piselli are both typical dishes, in which the main non-starch flavor comes specifically from peas. It can be really good, but the peas have to be exceptional, because there is nothing to fall back on. --Trovatore (talk) 18:50, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
- Good catch. It occurs to me, that I had that dish countless times in the 1970s and 1980s but it escaped my mind. So much for reinventing the wheel. I can't help notice that it's odd that the article says the dish was invented in the 1970s. Surely, someone in Italy had the idea before that time? Viriditas (talk) 23:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)