Wikipedia:Peer review/Dorothy Olsen/archive1
Dorothy Olsen[edit]
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I think this is ready for WP:FAC, but would appreciate some additional eyes looking it over before I nominate it. Thanks, RoySmith (talk) 16:18, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
UC[edit]
Relatively little to add to the points I have made already on Talk -- article seems in pretty good shape to me. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:25, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- Suggest clarifying in the lead that Washington is the state, not the city.
- Could add a few links in the lead, as your taste takes you: Long Beach, California, for instance.
- Olsen embarked on a weight-gaining regimen, "feasting on bananas and malted milk" to make the 100-pound (45 kg) required minimum: are those her words? I'd be explicit about that if so: it's an evocative choice of words.
- It's a quote from the source, which doesn't attribute it to anybody in particular.
- Honestly, I'm not a fan of just dropping in quotations without context: moreover, if the word "feasting" isn't Olsen's, it becomes a bit murky as to whether it means anything or is just a writer trying to jazz up their prose. Would suggest a paraphrase to something like "Olsen embarked on a weight-gaining regimen, based on bananas and malted milk, to make the 100-pound (45 kg) required minimum." UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- It's a quote from the source, which doesn't attribute it to anybody in particular.
- at Houston Municipal Field (now named William P. Hobby Airport): per WP:ENDURE, consider renamed in 19XX to... or similar.
- Reportedly one of only three women in the Portland area : we haven't actually said that she lived near Portland.
- Unclear what makes sense to do here. I say she was born in Woodburn, and link to that article which says it's near Portland. I think we're in WP:BLUE territory here.
- I think it's the opposite: WP:BLUE covers knowledge that everyone knows; we're much closer to WP:POPE territory here. Suggest changing the first sentence to "in Woodburn, near Portland, Oregon". UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- Done. My prediction is a subsequent reviewer will want a WP:RS for Woodburn being near Portland :-)
- I think it's the opposite: WP:BLUE covers knowledge that everyone knows; we're much closer to WP:POPE territory here. Suggest changing the first sentence to "in Woodburn, near Portland, Oregon". UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- Unclear what makes sense to do here. I say she was born in Woodburn, and link to that article which says it's near Portland. I think we're in WP:BLUE territory here.
- Olsen initially hated her training, but stuck with it to avoid the embarrassment of dropping out: the tone here (particularly stuck with it comes across a little informal to me.
- allowing her to stay with her class although she struggled to catch up.: not sure about the MOS:IDIOM here: as we're talking about flying, it's not totally clear whether we mean figuratively or literally catching up with her peers.
- I'm not seeing the confusion. "catch up" is the term used in the source, but it seems pretty straight-forward to me.
- providing a opportunity to keep women pilots flying: an opportunity. I would usually prefer female pilots to women pilots ("women" as an adjective is slightly dated, at least in BrE, and can read as slightly pejorative), but this one's a matter of taste.
- The source uses "woman". Maybe it is a British/US thing, but I never thought of "woman" as being either dated or pejorative, and don't see any indication of that in any of the dictionaries I looked at just now.
- Take it or leave it, but the Guardian (admittedly, once famous for its typos) advises
woman, womenare nouns, not adjectives, so say female president, female MPs etc rather than “woman president”, “women MPs”. An easy way to check is to try using man instead of woman eg “man president”, “men MPs” – if it doesn’t work for men, it doesn’t work for women.
Again, it's common enough that I don't consider this a big issue. UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)- I'll also note that the organization she worked for was the Woman Airforce Service Pilots, so that's precident for using "Woman" in that way in this article.
- Take it or leave it, but the Guardian (admittedly, once famous for its typos) advises
- The source uses "woman". Maybe it is a British/US thing, but I never thought of "woman" as being either dated or pejorative, and don't see any indication of that in any of the dictionaries I looked at just now.
- She flew 61 missions for the U.S. Army Air Corps, and was one of only twelve women certified for night flight: per MOS:NUM, suggest writing 12 in figures.
- then get military transport: this is quite vague; is that deliberate?
- The source says "military airlines", but I was trying to honor WP:CLOP.
- I would be clear that we mean flying, rather than taking a train, a jeep etc. UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- The source says "military airlines", but I was trying to honor WP:CLOP.
- and then back to Long Beach for another trip: there's a missing verb here.
- a practice shared by other WASPs. Two such pilots sent replies. : as written, it sounds as though the WASPs (who were after all pilots) sent her replies.
- When the WASP program ended in 1944, the pilots were discharged at their home base,: home bases, unless they all had the same one, in which case I'd give the location here.
- Olsen disliked flying bombers because in fighters, "she was by herself and could do whatever she wanted".: as on Talk, I'd make explicit that she flew single-seat fighters, whereas the bombers in question had a crew.
- Jennings mentioned that Olsen enjoyed scaring farmers on their tractors by flying close to them and "would do the same at railroad stations just because": as on talk, it sounds here like "the same" means "scaring farmers on their tractors".
- I can see how one might think that, but to my ear, it's not the most obvious way to read the sentence. This is a short direct quote from a larger passage which I chose to partly summarize and partly quote. I could quote a larger section which would include both the farmers and the railroad stations, but it wouldn't change anything. I'll leave this the way it is and see what other reviewers think.
- Olsen never flew commercially after the war: she never flew commercially during it, either.
- Of course she did. She was an employee of the military being paid to fly airplanes.
- I'm not sure I'd call that strictly commercial, but it's a fair point. I think professionally is a better word, though: after all, commercially means "in connection with profit-making business", which doesn't quite cover either being an employee (rather than a contractor) or working for the military (who employ the means of destruction rather than of production). UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:44, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- I'm going to pull rank on this one. I hold a commercial pilot's license. The one and only privilege it gives me beyond my private pilot's license is the right to be paid. So, yeah, flying for pay is in every sense flying commercially.
- I'm not sure I'd call that strictly commercial, but it's a fair point. I think professionally is a better word, though: after all, commercially means "in connection with profit-making business", which doesn't quite cover either being an employee (rather than a contractor) or working for the military (who employ the means of destruction rather than of production). UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:44, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- Of course she did. She was an employee of the military being paid to fly airplanes.
- Joint Base Lewis-McChord: has an endash, not a hyphen.
- Prior to her death, she was one of 38 WASPs still alive: as on Talk, I'd rephrase: how about simply She was one of the last 38 WASPs still alive after the sentence on her death?