Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Sitting Bull and Buffalo Bill, c.1885

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Sitting Bull and Buffalo Bill c.1885[edit]

Original - Native American Sitting Bull and showman Buffalo Bill, in Montreal, circa 1885. Sitting Bull briefly performed in his travelling vaudeville Wild West Shows during the late 19th and early 20th century.
Alternate - Went back to the LoC file and did a restoration
Alt 2 As above, but sharpened.
Not for voting (a bit late for that) Proof of the idea that facial detail is possibly for the chief.
Reason
A high resolution, but most importantly striking portrait of two historical figures.
Articles in which this image appears
Wild West Shows, Sitting Bull, Buffalo Bill, 19th century
FP category for this image
People/Entertainment
Creator
  • Support as nominator --Sir Richardson (talk) 23:40, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I can't help but think that our restorers would be able to do something with this. J Milburn (talk) 10:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I'm going to have to oppose here, it needs graphic work, I think the contrast is too harsh and that combined with the fairly low quality from LOC... — raekyt 14:09, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Greg L (talk) 19:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'll admit to being tempted.... Adam Cuerden (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Right. New version uploading. I used the LOC copy because, frankly, the bigger one is so horribly JPEG artefacted that it's not actually any better. Adam Cuerden (talk) 12:02, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt or alt 2, oppose original Adam Cuerden (talk) 12:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt 2 I just had to make it a bit sharper, sorry! Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 13:07, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I've taken the liberty of redoing your edit: The faces had had some selective sharpening applied already, and when I checked, they looked over-sharpened to me. That, unfortunately, is very easy to do: In the Revelations image of a couple months ago, I had to completely redo some parts after accidentally over-sharpening early on. (there were some parts where I couldn't get the image to lay flat, and thus were slightly blurry at full res. I was going through sharpening those, then sharpened the whole thing - then found that part of it had gotten horribly oversharpened, and had to paste in that bit and start over. Adam Cuerden (talk) 14:33, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Kind of boring, but still a good quality image of two pretty well-known people. --I'ḏ♥One 04:02, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original, SB's face is clearer here. Sandman888 (talk) Latest PR 17:33, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, yes, if you make a dark-skinned Indian look white, his face is clearer, but that doesn't mean it's right. That's an artefact of the extremely high contrast settings. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:40, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original Per Sandman. Gut Monk (talk) 01:42, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose original per Adam's reply to Sandman. J Milburn (talk) 09:42, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Per Adam, I find the artifact deserving (users know that Indians aren't white?). Camera technology was lacking back then. I find Sitting Bull's facial features, liked hooked nose, useful to the picture. Gut Monk (talk) 23:04, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's looking like alt 2, but can we get a bit more clarification? Makeemlighter (talk) 01:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have to admit that the alts are a bit dark; however, the original, besides having terrible technical quality, seems over-edited to highlight foreground objects using masks. That's probably not called for. Maybe we need to try again. I don't know if Adam has uploaded a lossless version of the restoration...? Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 12:10, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • File:William_Notman_studios_-_Sitting_Bull_and_Buffalo_Bill_(1895).png. I don't know if we can go any lighter and not lose all the headdress detail, though. Adam Cuerden (talk) 12:19, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Do any of those versions predate the sharpening you said you applied? Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 12:55, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • I just experimented a bit. Facial detail is definitely possible, but it would mean that Buffalo Bill's jacket (and probably hat) would have to be remain a little lighter in colour. The bonus is that the decorations on Sitting Bull come alive. Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 13:07, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Not bad. Hmm. Maybe we should play with this a little bit, and come back with more final versions? Adam Cuerden (talk) 13:24, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
          • That seems reasonable to me, although it might need a bit more consensus than just the two of us - perhaps it would be a reason for suspending, even at this late stage? Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 15:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
            • In the end, we want to promote the best possible image. Ignore all rules clearly applies here. One possibility might be to create a new listing to decide which option should be promoted. Adam Cuerden (talk) 15:40, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
              • That seems a fair call. Do you have something that's nearly ready? Oh, and could you just reply to my question above that starts with, "Do any..."? Thanks. Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 16:44, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I would support the "not for voting" version myself. I'm tweaked it in slightly in sharpness, if that's okay. I guess I'm happy to have caused so much collaboration and desire for improvement. Sir Richardson (talk) 19:28, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Seems fine to me. I only put the NFV sign up because I thought it would be a little late in the nom, and I didn't spend that much time on it. It's still based on Adam's work btw, I just did a curves change and probably haven't filled in the retouch template yet. Papa Lima Whiskey (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

PLW or Adam: if you come up with a "final" version, we can either re-open this for something like 5 days or we can contact all the voters to ask for a preference among all the versions. Makeemlighter (talk) 00:09, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    • I've tried my hand per PLW's suggestion, but I think I'd like to do it again. Multiple goes seems to result in better results. Adam Cuerden (talk) 13:00, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Promoted File:William Notman studios - Sitting Bull and Buffalo Bill (1895) edit.jpg --Makeemlighter (talk) 05:49, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's Alt 2. If someone eventually does an even better edit, this can be D&R'ed. Makeemlighter (talk) 05:49, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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