Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Washington & Jefferson Presidents head football coaches/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 20:51, 14 July 2010 [1].

List of Washington & Jefferson Presidents head football coaches[edit]

List of Washington & Jefferson Presidents head football coaches (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): GrapedApe (talk) 12:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because...it appears to satisfy all FLC criteria. GrapedApe (talk) 12:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from NThomas (talk) 03:12, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments:
  • In the lead, clarify when W&J was part of DIII. After Division III add since it's formation in 1973. From 1956–1972 Washington & Jefferson competed in the NCAA College Division.--done
  • Clarify when W&J joined the Presidents' Athletic Conference in 1958 and prior to, if they were either in a conference or were independent.--done
  • "XX head coaches" should be "30 head coaches"
  • After "National Collegiate Athletic Association", add "(NCAA)" since you use the abbreviation further in the lead.--done
  • Mention why the 1922 Rose Bowl was a notable. After California Golden Bears, I'd add another sentence like ", Neale is the only coach to lead the Presidents to a bowl game appearance."--done
  • I've brought it up for discussion on the Rose Bowl Game article's talk page that games from 1902-1922 should be moved from "xxxx Rose Bowl" to "xxxx Tournament East-West football game". "Greasy Neale's 1921 team played in the 1922 Rose Bowl, where" should read like "Greasy Neale's 1921 team played in the 1922 Tournament East—West football game, the Rose Bowl Game's precursor, where"
  • Shouldn't it be "since the 1900s." instead of "since the 1890s."--done
  • You already linked Sirianni earlier in the same paragraph; no need to link to him again in the last sentence.--done
  • Same thing for Greasy Neale and Pete Henry when you get to the Pro Football Hall of Fame sentence.--done
  • "A running total of the number of coaches" should have the same footnote found on FL List of Texas Tech Red Raiders head men's basketball coaches for coaches with multiple terms.--done
  • The dagger (†) should be superscripted using <sup> to open and </sup> to close in the legend and on Greasy Neale, John Heisman, Andrew Kerr, and Pete Henry. Again, look at Bob Knight's entry at List of Texas Tech Red Raiders head men's basketball coaches for an example of this.--done
  • After "Overall games" in the legend, Ties should have the same note found on FL List of Texas Tech Red Raiders head football coaches--done
  • Sortable tables - --done
  • Greasy Neale's table entry should include "0" in the PW and PL entries. Since he was able to win, lose, or tie the game, all entries were possible unlike others (ex. Ralph Hutchinson never was able to win, lose or tie in a postseason game). If you look at a statistic book for Neale, his postseason record would say "0 - 0 - 1" not "— - — - 1"
  • This takes some work because all sortable entries with "—" now become "{{ntsh|0}}—" and all entries with values (1, 2, 3, etc.) become "{{nts|xx}}" (replace the xx's with the value)
  • Same thing goes for John Banaszak and Mike Sirianni for ties. Since both coaches' terms started after 1996, when tie games were eliminated, both coaches' "OT" entries should have "—" instead of "0" since they couldn't have coached a game to a tie.
  • Just like I mentioned though in Neale's table, the entires should actually have "{{ntsh|0}}—" instead of just being replaced with "—"
  • About the whole sortable table with endashes, entries with "0" values should be "{{ntsh|0.1}}0", so that "—" entries will sort together using "{{ntsh|0}}—" and not jumble up with each other. If you don't understand what I'm getting at, look at how it was done on List of Texas Tech Red Raiders head football coaches.
  • All instances of J.J. Clark, W.D. Inglis, S.W. Black, and W.B. Seaman should have a space between the two abbreviated letters.--done
  • Its not necessary but out of curiosity, why didn't you use John Heisman's picture instead in the lead? I mean he's thee John Heisman.
    • Yeah, that's a good point. But, the Greasy Neale picture is of better quality, (plus I'm a huge fan of Greasy Neale--he was elected to the College and Pro football hall of fame, won two NFL championships as a coach, AND a world series!). Truth be told, Bob Folwell is the greatest coach in college history, but I can't find a free picture of him. Plus, Heisman's tenure at W&J was towards the end of his career, and was pretty minor.--GrapedApe (talk) 04:34, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Those are some impressive stats so that makes perfect sense. NThomas (talk) 21:22, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's a lot of work left to do here but you're on the right track. NThomas (talk) 04:06, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Everything looks fine now. Good job. NThomas (talk) 04:59, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:19, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "that represents Washington & Jefferson College ... since its formation in 1973." The tenses don't seem to match so well when some of the filler is taken out. How about "that has represented Washington & Jefferson college ... since its formation in 1973." Keep the conference and NCAA facts, but tweak what comes beforehand.
    • I see what you mean: that was a very confusing paragraph. I moved it around, and I think it reads much better now, with clearer discussion of the team's founding and joining DIII and the PAC. So, done
  • "to NCAA Division III playoffs". Add "the" before NCAA?--done
  • No need to link the Presidents' Athletic Conference twice in the lead.--done
  • Should the hyphen in "heavily favored" be there?--done
  • Also don't need multiple links for Mike Sirianni or Greasy Neale. --done
Resolved comments from Wizardman Operation Big Bear 15:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
*Comments:
    • "The Washington & Jefferson Presidents football program is a college football team" The program is the team? How about "The Washington & Jefferson Presidents are a college football team.."?
      • I clarified it: "The Washington & Jefferson Presidents football team has represented Washington & Jefferson College in intercollegiate college football competition since 1890." --GrapedApe (talk) 03:13, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • "From 1956 to 1972 Washington & Jefferson competed in the NCAA College Division." Which division? I assume I but maybe it's II or I-AA. Or maybe there was something called a College Division, which is news to me.
      • Yeah, it was called the "College Division," which was news to me, as well.--GrapedApe (talk) 03:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The hiring of professional coaches for the football team was controversial among large portions of the college community" Was there a particular reason as to why?

Wizardman Operation Big Bear 02:36, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 14:14, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "who had previously been independent" forgive my ignorance, but do you mean they didn't affiliate to a particular league? It would be nice for non-experts to read what this really means.
  • "The Presidents have played in 1,057 games..." I think an "as of" would be useful here, I know you'll do your best but this'll need updating on a game-by-game basis to remain accurate without an "as of" caveat.
  • "The Presidents have played in 1,057 games during their 119 seasons; during that time they have employed 30 head coaches. They played their first season without a head coach. In 1894, E. Gard Edwards became the first paid head coach" - three "head coach" mentions in three sentences makes for dull prose.
    • I couldn't find a good way to combine the sentences, so I cut the more boring one.--GrapedApe (talk) 05:08, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "W&J" - I'd put this in parentheses after the first clear use of "Washington & Jefferson" for complete clarity.
    • I just took it out and replaced it with "the college."--GrapedApe (talk) 04:58, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the oldest and most prestigious bowl game," presumably somewhere you cite both of these claims? The source was flattering, but didn't claim the precise wording you give here.
    • Added a source for the oldest. Saying "most prestigious" is true, but tough to source, so I cut it.--GrapedApe (talk) 05:22, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: excellent, and I mean it, excellent work on the table sorting.
    • Thanks! (A lot of credit goes to NThomas for basically walking me through it)--GrapedApe (talk) 19:08, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • A lot of unlinked coaches. Are they non-notable or do they simply not have an article? I would encourage you to link those who would meet our notability criteria.
    • The rest are non-notable, as far as I can tell. I created the Morrow and Piekarski articles in preparation for this list.--GrapedApe (talk) 19:08, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 3 needs an en-dash.--fixed

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:55, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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