Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Premiers of the Soviet Union/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Dabomb87 00:25, 11 January 2011 [1].

List of Premiers of the Soviet Union[edit]

Nominator(s): --TIAYN (talk) 11:52, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this lists meets the FL criteria. --TIAYN (talk) 11:52, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I removed this nomination as it contradicted the FLC instruction "Users should not add a second FL nomination until the first has gained substantial support and reviewers' concerns have been substantially addressed" (Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of leaders of the Soviet Union/archive2 had no such consensus at the time and had only been open 2 days). Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:08, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My other nominee has received support.. --TIAYN (talk) 05:24, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comments:
- Done Soviet Union not linked in introduction.
- Done "Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars (1917–1946)" yet the first person listed took office in 1922. I understand the USSR was only formed in 1922, but some mention needs to be made about the 1917 bit.
- Done The table makes no explanation of the extra cell below the term of office; I had to find one with a link to discover it meant the election.
- I see no reason to include their birth/death dates. If people want to know, they can click through.

You are not suppose to need to click through when you read this article! It is staying. --TIAYN (talk) 18:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are supposed to need to click through for information not relevant to the list. Lifespans, hometowns, professions, etc. are not relevant to a list of office holders. --Golbez (talk) 04:43, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- Done The coloring also seems superfluous, since they were all the same, and party affiliation is only sparsely mentioned.
- Done No reason for the dates to be small and separated from the years.
- Done I'm guessing there was no method of automatic succession? Explaining why there was a delay between Lenin's death on January 21 and Rykov's succession on February 2.
- Done Does not mention the ones that died in office.
  - Only one did, and that was Stalin. --TIAYN (talk) 21:28, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - Lenin? --Golbez (talk) 21:34, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - I ment Lenin and Stalin, sorry for that one.. even so, it is already mentioned by including the birth death years. --TIAYN (talk) 21:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - Not really. If someone died in November 1924 but left office in February 1924, it would say they died in 1924, and you wouldn't know if they died in office. --Golbez (talk) 21:42, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Another date discrepancy: Stalin died on March 5 but his successor did not take office until March 6

No specific reasons. --TIAYN (talk) 18:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- Done Khruschchev left office on October 14, 1964, and his successor Kosygin took office ... eight months earlier?
- Done Pavlov left office August 22, Silayev took office September 6?
  - Pavlov supported the August Coup of 1991, in its aftermath Gorbachev had a hard time finding his replacement. --TIAYN (talk) 21:28, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Done A direct link to the relevant Soviet constitution(s) is needed in the references.

It is? --TIAYN (talk) 18:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- Done The introduction only mentions the 1977 constitution; you need to go in to how the previous constitutions and positions were handled.
  - No difference between, the exception is that the organisation the Premier headed was named something else. --TIAYN (talk) 18:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Why are two different pictures of Stalin used?
  - One for him in the 1930s (commissars) and 1940s (ministers). --TIAYN (talk) 21:28, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Done "Chairmens"
That's all I see in a 5 minute skim. --Golbez (talk) 18:32, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments - Inconsistency with the date formats in the references (Ref 1 and 2 use D M Y. Ref 14, 16 use M D, Y). the dates violate MOS:TEXT as far as I'm aware in other words the small html tag shouldn't be used. Afro (Talk) 15:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:08, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Done: "There have been thirteen premiers. Of the individuals appointed premiers, two of the seventeen premiers" reads odd. Perhaps "Thirteen individuals have been Premiers of the Soviet Union..."?
Done: Seemingly inconsistent capitalised and uncapitalised premier/Premier in the lead...
Done: I am mildly disoriented by the lead. It's not until the second para that I learn that the first premier appeared in 1922. I would suggest a reordering of the lead to introduce the subject of the list, then put it into context...
Done: "the last four mentioned controlled " - the last four of whom... Done: And a citation?
Done: Tenure dates should used spaced en-dashes (per WP:DASH) as opposed to unspaced ones.
Done: Is it "Russian SFSR" or "RSFSR"?
Done: What's CPSU?
Done: Blank images could use an en-dash.
Done: Notes 1 and 2 have spare .'s

Whats a spare? --TIAYN (talk) 20:07, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Spare full stop. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done: Ref 5 has a spare .

Whats a spare? --TIAYN (talk) 20:07, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Spare full stop. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Explained: What make hrono.info a reliable source?
- They source their own statements, example they use the book История современной России: поиск и обретение свободы (English: The history of modern Russia: the search for and acquisition of freedom) to reference their statements about Ivan Silayev. --TIAYN (talk) 20:07, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done: (removed bibliography section): Ulam's book could become a reference and the just refer to page numbers in the notes.
Done: Ref 22 needs an en-dash for year range.
Done: Ref 25 needs pp.
Done: Page ranges are represented inconsistently, so 403–404 vs 128–29 vs 207–8.
Done: Refs 37 and 38 need en-dashes for year ranges.
Done: Ref 40 needs pp.
Done: First bibliography doesn't need a page number because more than just p38 is used in the list.

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:45, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In order for this to not be WP:CFORK, the "List of" should be dropped from the title and a section on the powers/role of the PM should be added (i.e. the list should cover the entire topic on Soviet PMs). Nergaal (talk) 00:08, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm gonna make a seperate article for powers, function and duties of the Premier. It's not WP:CFORK because it's a very notable topic and should have its own article. --TIAYN (talk) 08:51, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose for now~~ This is similar to Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Intercontinental Cup (football) winners/archive1 and other similar failed recent lists. A main article should be created first and only then content should be split if the main article is large enough (which in this case I am pretty sure it won't be the case). Nergaal (talk) 09:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why shouldn't it be big enough? I have access to all the Soviet constitutions and constitutional amendments, so there is no reason for it not becoming big enough. This is pure ignorance WP:POV. The only thing i need to do is to merge the Council of People's Commissars, Council of Ministers (Soviet Union) and the Cabinet of Ministers of the USSR in the Premier article, you know that right? --TIAYN (talk) 09:11, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By all means, we don't even need to create a seperate article "Premier", seeing that all the power, functions, and responsibilities are discussed in the three mentioned articles above. --TIAYN (talk) 09:19, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, you are right about those> Nevertheless, I started taking a closer look and I don't think this is ready. The list talks about premiers, but in the table there are four different titles. The intro does not go through this to explain the differences/transitions. The prose it quite weak also: There have been thirteen premiers. Thirteen individuals have been Premiers of the Soviet Union, two of the seventeen premiers. Also, the intro starts with the '77 constitution... but the list starts at 1920. I would suggest working on the intro significantly more. Also, there are only two distinct references in the intro. Nergaal (talk) 09:28, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done I've explained further. I will get another editor to copyedit the article if the article in dire need of it. --TIAYN (talk) 10:09, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks much better now. Still, I would prefer a separate expanded summary section like in List of leaders of the Soviet Union before I support this. Nergaal (talk) 21:23, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is a difference in the layout. In this list all premier's have their own short summary of their tenure in the "wikitable". In the List of leaders of the Soviet Union I didn't have enough space in the table to write short summaries of the leaders, and their leadership, in the table. That's why I created the summary section. This list, however, has summaries for the respective premiers in the table. There is simply no need. --TIAYN (talk) 08:49, 24 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I would prefer the first paragraph to briefly tell me what the Premier is, not how they left office. Reywas92^Talk 17:31, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm working on it. --TIAYN (talk) 08:49, 24 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done --TIAYN (talk) 12:42, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:51, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comments –

Done At the start of the article, shouldn't the bolded Premiers be singular, unless the title literally was Premiers of the Soviet Union?
Done "the Council of People's Commissars were transformed into the Council of Ministers...". "were" → "was".
Done In the last sentence of the lead, either make the em dash unspaced or change it to a smaller en dash. The spaced em dash goes against the Manual of Style.
Done Nikolai Bulganin: "While being a strong supporter of Khrushchev at first, he starting doubting some of his more radical policies...". "starting" → "started".
Done Nikolai Tikhonov: Missing "of" in "leader the Soviet Union"? Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:42, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.