Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Gunsmoke television episodes/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 11:49, 31 March 2010 [1].

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List of Gunsmoke television episodes

List of Gunsmoke television episodes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): Jimknut (talk) 01:14, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

• Featured list candidates/List of Gunsmoke television episodes/archive1
• Featured list candidates/List of Gunsmoke television episodes/archive2

I am re-nominating this for featured list because Gunsmoke is a television classic and warrants a good episode list page. This article has had a peer review and a previous FLC listing. All comments for improvement were addressed. All that is needed now is some support. Thanks Jimknut (talk) 01:14, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5 I supported this list before the re-insertion of Amazon.com as a reference. Since it is being used only to verify release dates in this case, I'm willing to overlook my personal concerns with its reliability. I see only two comments that would need to be addressed before I confirm my support: Blacksmith (in the lead) is not a proper noun; de-capitalize. Fixed. Reference formats are not consistent. Some use only the author's name, while some use the name and year. One is also misspelled. Fixed. Once those are fixed, I'll be glad to re-support. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:05, 27 February 2010 (UTC) Just noticed a major issue: dates don't sort. They are sorting alphabetically by month name, when they should sort chronologically. You'll need to use {{dts}} for all dates. I used {{dts}} on the airdates. It worked fine for seasons one thru five, but beginning midway into season six the dates were replaced with Error: too many #time calls. From what I read in what help I could find this is a result of too many sortable entries. I have chosen instead to make the airdate columns unsortable. (After all, this is a huge list.) What order would anyone like to sort them in anyway? Chronological? They're already in that format. Reverse chronological order? You can achieve that by sorting either of two episode number columns. Good solution. Cheers. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:23, 2 March 2010 (UTC) Also noticed that there is an extraneous period/full stop in "Calvin Clements" in season 13. Is there a difference between "Calvin Clements" and "Calvin Clements, Jr."? If not, this needs to be standardized throughout the entire list. Extraneous period removed. Yes, there is a difference between Calvin Clements and Calvin Clements, Jr.; both worked as writers on the show. Were they related in any way? Just checking. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:31, 2 March 2010 (UTC) Neither of the two books that I have on Gunsmoke (the ones I used for references) list them as being related, and I can find much info about them on the internet. I think, however, it's a fairly safe bet that the two were father and son. Jimknut (talk) 01:34, 2 March 2010 (UTC) IMDB, while not reliable, does say that they are father and son; I think that it might make sense to make it Calvin Clements, Sr. and Jr. to make the distinction clear. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 02:18, 2 March 2010 (UTC) Changed Jimknut (talk) 04:01, 2 March 2010 (UTC) Sentence fragments should not end with a period/full stop (for example: "39 half-hour episodes, black-and-white." is not a complete sentence). Fixed. "Amanda Blake left this series" - should be "the series" unless she stayed with the radio program (if she did, that should be noted). Fixed. (Georgia Ellis played Kitty on the radio version.) "for the final season. (1974–75)." - extra period/full stop. Fixed. Jimknut (talk) 22:25, 1 March 2010 (UTC) Some of the "Robert Stewart"s are "Robert C. Stewart", there are some "Robert C. Stewart Jr."s. Are these the same person? If so, they should be standardized; if not, they should be unambiguously named. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:23, 2 March 2010 (UTC) Now standardized as "Robert Stewart" Jimknut (talk) 16:13, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Support - great work. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 18:10, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "The final first run episode aired on March 31, 1975." You lost me on this sentence. What is a "final first run episode"? Gunsmoke still airs on television, although now in syndicated reruns of episodes from its twenty-year run (1955–75) on CBS. "Final first run" means that it was chronologically the last episode broadcast that was not a rerun. I'm open to suggestions as to how this sentence could be re-worded to sound better. I added a hyphen for clarity. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC) No chance for creating separate articles about each season? Plenty of chances. But this article is about the entire run of the series, not individual seasons. I prefer to do one thing at a time, so let's get this polished up to FL status and then do articles on individual seasons. OK, just making sure. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC) "Saturday, 10-10:30" Needs an en dash. Fixed. Why are the tables not sortable by date? I used {{dts}} on the airdates. It worked fine for seasons one thru five, but beginning midway into season six the dates were replaced with Error: too many #time calls. From what I read in what help I could find this is a result of too many sortable entries. I have chosen instead to make the airdate columns unsortable. (After all, this is a huge list.) What order would anyone like to sort them in anyway? Chronological? They're already in that format. Reverse chronological order? You can achieve that by sorting either of two episode number columns. Unfortunate, but not a big deal. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC) I doubt you need to link "color" or "black-and-white"; would readers have any doubt about what those terms mean? The word "color" links to the article on Color television, so I think it's a valid link in case some one may want to brush up on the history of the color TV. I can't make a link to "Black-and-white television" since no article currently exists, so I suppose the black-and-white link could be ousted. I still don't think either link is necessary, but won't push further. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC) In the Nielsen ratings section, why are the programs airing opposite Gunsmoke mentioned? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC) Gunsmoke aired on American television before the rise of cable TV and the home video market. During its twenty-year run three networks (ABC, CBS, and NBC) dominated US TV broadcasting. Unless they tuned into a local broadcast, audiences of the day had to watch one of the shows from these networks. I thought it was a good idea to give readers on opportunity to have a wider spectrum of TV from that era by listing what shows aired opposite Gunsmoke. Jimknut (talk) 17:44, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

• Comments I have a few issues that should be addressed before supporting.
  • Could you state in the lead why the show was eventually cancelled?
    • A statement has now been added.
      • "According to Alan Wagner, who was the network's vice president at the time, "It's better to get rid of a program one year too soon than one year two late." Should it be "one year too late"? --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:19, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
        • Whoops! This is what happens whecn your up two too late editing Wikipedia pages! It's now fixed.
  • Before each season, producer is followed by a colon (as well as notes), but starring is not. To remain consistent, it would be helpful to add colons after each of the "Starring" for all of the seasons.
    • No, I disagree. I think "Producer" and "associate producer" warrant colons unless I change then to "Produced by" and "Associate produced by" (of which the latter sound tacky). "Starring James Arness ..." flows better without a colon. I could change this to "Stars:" or "Regular cast:" but I think it's fine the way it is.
      • To be consistent with the formatting of the other lines before the tables, a colon makes more sense. It seems out of place and starting off with "starring" makes the line appear to be a sentence, when it is only a list of the cast members. I think "regular cast:" would work well or actually writing it as a sentence. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:19, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
        • Okay, I give in. It's now changed to "Regular cast:"
  • There seems to be a lot of overlinking. Could the directors and writers be linked to only once in each season?
    • See resolved comments from the last FLC; these are not overlinked. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:19, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
      • KV5 summed it up right ... and I've gone over this linking routine numerous times.
        • Sorry, I didn't view other reviewers' comments. The rationale in the guideline doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not going to fight it. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:19, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Unless there are guidelines that state otherwise, consider renaming the section "home release" to "home media release". Also there should be a brief mention in the lead about the releases to better summarize the article.
    • Now changed to "Home media release".
  • Are there any relevant external links that can be included?
    • Amazing but there doesn't seem to be any significant web site devoted to this epic TV series. I have, however, included a link to the web site of the Museum of Television Broadcasting, which seems to be a somewhat scholarly site.
      • Would the IMDB and TV.com links be helpful for including in the external links? --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:19, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

These shouldn't be too hard to address. Good job on this list, it's great to see a FLC attempt for an older show instead of all the recent ones (where sources are must more abundant). If you have any questions or when you are finished, please let me know on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 22:53, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

• Anything else? Jimknut (talk) 03:04, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Concerns address and another external link added. Jimknut (talk) 03:27, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Support All of the above issues I raised have been sufficiently addressed. Good work on the list! --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 03:49, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Support Mm40 (talk) 11:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk)

Comments from Mm40 (talk). Overall, a very nice article. Just some nitpicks before I support (mostly prose-related). In the first sentence should "is" be "was"? Also, "television series, which was developed by" No. Correct: "Gunsmoke is an American western television series" Incorrect: "Gunsmoke was an American western television series" It may no longer be in production and no longer airing first-run episodes on the CBS network, but it is still a television series and can still be viewed as such (by way of syndicated reruns or playing video cassettes or DVDs). "Was" indicates that it no longer exists or has changed into something else. Consider this: "Charles Dickens was a British novelist" or "Orson Welles was an American filmmaker" (past tense because both men are now dead); however, "A Tale of Two Cities is a novel" or "Citizen Kane is a motion picture" (present tense because both works still exist). "which was" has been cut. "All episodes of the series were broadcast" – it's clear that we're talking about Gunsmoke "of the series" has been cut. "episode originally aired" – as the subject of the sentence is the first episode, one would guess this is the original airing "originally" has been cut. "series expanded to an hour-long series" repeats "series". Also, the series isn't an hour long, but the episodes are Changed to "The series expanded to an hour-long episodes" "Beginning with its second season" is ambiguous; how about "During its second season"? Changed. "moved quickly to number one" switch around "moved" and "quickly": "quickly moved to number one" Changed. Beginning a sentence with "According to" makes the sentence sound out of place; I suggest "Alan Wagner, who was ... at the time, said" followed by the quote. Also, you can take out "who was" in "who was the network's vice president" Changed. When you say "a fifth character was added to the cast", does this mean a fifth regular character? Changed to "fifth regular character" Is Miss Hannah an alternate name for Kitty? If not, the last sentence of the third paragraph should be clarified Changed to "Amanda Blake left the series at the end of the nineteenth season (1973–74) and was replaced in the final season by a new character, Miss Hannah, portrayed by Fran Ryan." Throughout the list, the dash before "Part 1" and "Part 2" should be spaced on both sides. For example, ""Guns of Cibol Blanca The Guns of Cibola Blanca"– Part 1" should be ""Guns of Cibol Blanca The Guns of Cibola Blanca" – Part 1" Changed. I don't think any episodes have more than one director (except season 2), so you can take out "(s)" in the heading Heading changed to "Writer" and in season two the one episode listing two directors has now been changed to one. (This is per my sources. I've made a valiant attempt to be accurate, but with 635 episodes to deal with a flub can creep in here and there.) In episode 266, is the producer name of "Robert E." correct Corrected. I would avoid using "two-parter" (season 16) as it sounds a tad too informal Changed to "two-part" episode. In the Nielsen ratings table, some columns are centered while others aren't. I can see why the "Season" and "Nielsen rating" columns are centered, but one date column is centered while the other isn't Corrected. Also season numbers have linked to the episode listings. In the Home media release table, I would get rid of the thin empty rows (i.e., the | height=5px colspan=6|). This is just a personal preference, though. Also, none of the section links in the "Season" column works (missing the dashes in the link) Changed and correct. Empty spaces are out and the "umbrella" titles are in a silver background. Italicize "Gunsmoke" in the See also link Changed. None of the Barbaras {{harvnb}} templates work. Also, note the year typo in reference 34 Typo fixed and {{harvnb}} should work now. In reference 2 (Newcomb), the name should be "Last, First" Changed. Remove the two "(MBC)" abbreviations in reference 2 and the second external link as it's not used elsewhere in the article Removed. Reference ten needs an en-dash Corrected. As I said, I'll be happy to support once the above issues are resolved. Cheers, Mm40 (talk) 01:46, 27 March 2010 (UTC) Okay now? (I also tidied up the headings for the episode numbers) Jimknut (talk) 20:38, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 07:15, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Comments "The series ran for 20 seasons" from when? "The first episode aired in the United States on September 10, 1955.[4][5] The final first-run episode aired on March 31, 1975.[6][7]" merge these. Merged and moved into the first paragraph. I think it more or less answers your first comment. "were a half-hour in length" nasty, maybe "were 30 minutes.." or "were half an hour in"? changed to "30 minutes" "and quickly moved to number one" specify. changed. I think it reads better now. "following a shift in its programming time" specify. Expanded to "following a shift in its programming time from Saturday to Monday night" Ref 51 is malformed. Fixed. Can you tell me why tvshowsondvd.com is a WP:RS? It seemed like a good idea at the time. I've changed the ref to Amazon.com. The statement is that episodes of Gunsmoke were released on DVD. Since the Amazon page clearly shows that they have these DVDs for sale I think we can safely consider them a reliable source this time around. Jimknut (talk) 02:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.