Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ulysses (poem)/archive1

Ulysses (poem)[edit]

by Briana p

An 1833 poem by Alfred Tennyson. Written almost entirely by Outriggr, I am nominating on his behalf. Ceoil 05:20, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

^^Weak Oppose It's often very confusing to keep track of what's being quoted, particularly the last block quote from Dante, presented in a way that makes it sound like you're about to quote Tennyson. I think that we need to see at least a good chunk of the poem immediately after the lead, and more throughout. This is an article on a poem, and without getting shown some reasonably-sized bits of it, all the talk about its merits and meaning falls flat. Adam Cuerden ^talk 07:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm addressing this. Ceoil 07:29, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Have added a relevant chunk to the second section, switched to C-Quotes, and made the names of the authors of each quote more explicit and obvious. I don't think a careful reader could be confused. Thanks for the input, bty. Ceoil 09:24, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nearly there now. A little more polish, and it'll be great. Though... would it be undue meddling to ask for the poem to be uploaded to Wikisource or something, so that readers can follow along without leaving Wikipedia? Adam Cuerden ^talk 18:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Adam; undue meddling? Ha! there is a Wikisource link in the second section, that you might find helpful. Ceoil 18:19, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comments This is a good article, but I think that elements of it could still be made clearer. I gave a pretty detailed review of it a few months ago, but I don't think that everything from that review has been addressed. Ceoil, perhaps you could take a look at that list and check through everything? I noticed that some of the things I had asked for elaboration on are still a little obscure. Outriggr had mentioned that he was going to work on the article over time - does he think it's ready?
Is "BC" really supposed to be linked to Anno Domini? To me, that is very confusing.
For most of the poem's history, an affirmative reading of its themes prevailed - "affirmative" is a bit vague
Could the important ironies be explained in a phrase or sentence in the lead?
The quote boxes need citations. All quotations from poems need line numbers and we need to know what edition they are being cited from.
Examples of enjambment and spondees would help the reader understand what these are and how they work (second paragraph of "Synposis and structure").
Tennyson penned "Ulysses" after the death of his close Cambridge friend, the poet Arthur Henry Hallam (1811–33), whom Tennyson held in very high esteem. - I think their friendship went beyond this. This doesn't suggest the strong emotional ties I've always heard existed on Tennyson's side, at least.
Tennyson said that the poem "gave my feeling about the need of going forward and braving the struggle of life" - something is missing from the end of the this sentence, I feel
Yet for W. W. Robson and others, stylistic incongruities between the poem and poet are what make "Ulysses" exceptional - Tell the reader who Robson is and why we should care about his/her opinion. This is the case for all of the scholars mentioned - we need to know that they have some credibility.
The intention to recall the Homeric character is evident, however, in certain passages. - sentence fragment
The last movement—among the most familiar passages in nineteenth-century English poetry—presents decisively the influence of Dante. - Dante passage is awkward; also, do we mean "English-language poetry" or "British poetry"?
Tennyson projects this zeal into Ulysses' unquenched desire for knowledge: - The quote is missing!
I feel like the last paragraph of "Literary context" could be explained a little more clearly for those not used to literary jargon, but this could just be me being overcautious.
The first paragraph of "Ulysses as narrator" could flow a bit better - the sentences don't quite lead into each other as well as they could.
The sense of passivity found in "Ulysses" opposes the archetype of Ulysses as adventurer. T. S. Eliot opined that "Tennyson could not tell a story at all".[37] To him, Dante's treatment of Ulysses is exciting, while Tennyson's piece is "an elegiac mood". - The structure of these sentences could be improved.
Renowned Scottish writer Thomas Carlyle appreciated "Ulysses", at last respecting Tennyson's talent enough to exhort him to write prose instead. - Why "at last"? The reader doesn't know, presumably.
The prominence of "Ulysses" in Tennyson's canon is the result of two trends, according to critic Matthew Rowlinson: the rise of formal English poetry studies in the late nineteenth century, and the Victorian effort to articulate an English culture that could be exported. - English or British?
Although the twentieth century produced new interpretations of "Ulysses"—developing a skepticism of the narratorial voice and a willingness to explore meaning beyond the author's intention—the poem remains much-admired. - I'm not sure why this is an "although" - one can be skeptical of the authorial voice, etc. and still admire.
Both poems are narrated by an aged man contemplating life's end. Comparing "Ulysses"' introductory lines, Eliot's comment on Ulysses is ironic: - But there is no quote here!
I'm not sure the "In poetry" section needs to be a section. I would cut the last sentence (which is not about Tennyson's poem in any way) and integrate the rest into the earlier section.

I think that this can become an FA - it just needs some polishing and a bit of explanation here and there. Awadewit | talk 20:32, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I apprciate the advice you have given; lots to work with here. But trying to shift Outriggr is like trying to shift the antaric. Nevermind, I'll work through. Ceoil 20:49, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Antarctic? (By the way, I once promised Outriggr beads for a peer review and he acquiesced...Just kidding.) Awadewit | talk 21:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Carnt spell, straight up. Outriggr has been bitching on my talk for months about those dman beads. Ceoil 21:23, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Awadewit, I am going to copy your comment to the article's talk page, where I will attempt to address some of your comments. –Outriggr § 03:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Nom withdrawn at request of main editor. Ceoil 21:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]