Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 15:06, 14 August 2007.

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Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast

Self-nomination: This article has been completely re-written since the days when it was a mere start-class article. It's currently a Good Article, and was only put on hold during its period of candidacy due to some minor points with references. A healthy number of images (all Fair-Use-Rationale-ed), good prose, when I put it up for VG Peer review it had too many citations... I think this article is fully deserving of FA status. UnaLaguna 12:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Oppose: I hate to object, because this article is really looking good and you've obviously put a lot of work into it. But, after giving a quick copyedit of the lead and Gameplay section, writing problems were a little too easy to find. Here are some problems:

• Perhaps a little more about the story could be explained in the lead; it's still got room for expansion (the lead, that is).  Done
• Jedi Outcast's gameplay is largely similar to its predecessors. Predecessors, as in plural? I only see one predecessor mentioned in the lead.  Done
• usually killing enemies with blasters or a lightsaber (as is common in many action titles), The parenthetical comment here seems weird and out of place: it sounds like it's saying a blaster and lightsaber are common in many action titles, but even ignoring that, what is the point of it?  Done
• As with previous games in the series, the player controls the protagonist Kyle Katarn: a former Jedi Knight who cut his link with The Force after straying close to the Dark Side, and at the start of the game is a mercenary working for the New Republic.[6] A colon is mistakenly used instead of a comma after Katarn, "straying close" is kinda vague (how about "almost succumbing" instead) and a new sentence should be started after Dark Side.  Done
• Why is Billy Dee Williams the only voice actor mentioned? I understand he's the only one reprising his role from the films, but it seems unbalanced to not mention the other voice actors.
• "Parts of the game" "Sections of the mission": These phrases are used too much, and almost shouldn't be used at all, as they're just too vague.  Done

That's just in Gameplay and part of the plot section, so make sure to run through the whole article. Done ... I think.

Also, several references are missing author's names, such as refs #5, 6, 13, 14 (I assume), and 25, just to name a few. Done Good work so far, but a few more problems to fix.--Dark Kubrick 19:10, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I knew when I was putting it up that the writing and other tiny things which gradually add up would be the thing which would be criticised. I do have a bit of an obsession with colons and semicolons, and lead sections have never really been my thing.

I'd agree with all your points, save the one regarding Billy Dee Williams. I figured, as he's the only one from the films, he's the only one notable enough to merit a brief mention (no disrespect to the other actors; I just never heard any of their names before). He's also the only voice actor actually mentioned outside the game's credits, which whilst I know doesn't set things in stone for Wikipedia policy, should at least count for something.

And don't feel bad about having to oppose: it's the summer holidays, and I need things to stave off boredom!

Update: by the magic of templates I've given you an idea of what I've done. I just finished going through and adding authors names to articles where a real-world name, not an alias (as was the case for two citations), has been provided. I'd go over the rest of the prose with a fine (metaphorical) comb, but I like sleep too much. UnaLaguna 20:59, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for addressing my concerns. Two more minor problems I see with the references is that (1) some don't list the publisher (read:website) while some others do, and (2), JediKnightII.net (used in refs #16 and 24) is a fan website, and therefore not reliable. I'm sure it could be easy finding replacements for those though. Done Before you do that though, get some more sleep. Done--Dark Kubrick 22:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and I see your point with the Billy Dee Williams thing.--Dark Kubrick 22:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

All my objections have been addressed, except for the writing, which I feel could be tightened up a bit more, Done and that the Gameplay section feels a little small (this is a new one). I mean, what else can you tell us about Force powers? I feel there could be more in that section. Done I'm going on a 3-day vacation now, so I'll check on the article when I get back. Good luck.--Dark Kubrick 12:33, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

The dreaded 1a!!! I've expanded the section on Force powers, but I'm apprehensive to expand this section further as this might result in turning it into a dreaded game guide. I'll really have a good attack at the prose now. UnaLaguna 14:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I did work with the prose on a bigger scale than I've done before, doing the old trick of printing it out and attacking it with a pen. I might have another copyedit again, just to be sure. UnaLaguna 21:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose—Not well written throughout. Here are samples.
  • "a first and third-person action game"—Read MOS on hyphens. Done
  • Why are single years linked? Read MOS on this. They go nowhere helpful for the reader. Please remove those trivial links throughout. Done
  • False contrast: "Jedi Outcast's gameplay is similar to its predecessor." (Add "that of") Done
  • "While most of the game involves dispatching enemies single-handedly, there are several puzzles which the player must solve." Better as "players must solve several problems". Same "there are" issue with "There are a number of combos which can be used,"—reword.
  • "Also involves"—remove the redundant "also".
  • "Powers are available in singleplayer and multiplayer, but more powers can be used in the latter." Why "but"?
  • "these can be played over LAN or the Internet, but is limited to"—Basic grammar. Tony 02:07, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I've addressed a couple of the specific issues raised, and I'll go through and compare the entire text to the MOS. Sorry my response hasn't been sooner. UnaLaguna 14:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Due to other commitments I won't have much time to address this problem. As the sole unaddressed objection points concern the prose, I added the article to the list of FACs needing a copyedit at WP:LOCE. UnaLaguna 18:26, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.