Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Poppy Meadow/archive3

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 15:26, 29 July 2012 [1].

Poppy Meadow[edit]

Poppy Meadow (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator: — M.Mario (T/C) 09:49, 15 July 2012 (UTC) Expander: — M.Mario (T/C) , Frickative and Malleus Fatuorum[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because after two thorough FAC nominations, two GA Reviews and 1 Peer Review, I think this article is fetaured status now. New info has arisen since the last nomination, so there may be problems to be fixed, however I think the article is very close to becoming FA status. Thanks! — M.Mario (T/C) 09:49, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Supported below

  • The "alt" for the lede image should not be "A promotional image of Poppy Meadow, portrayed by Rachel Bright", That doesn't help the reader, should what she is doing, wearing, etc. Example: "A man with short brown hair and a buttoned shirt in front of a microphone." That's just an example I got from another article. Please fix not done
  • References should not be used in the lede of article, that is suppose to summarize article, so refs. should be in the actual article not done
  • Storylines: How can you "become engaged" you "get engaged" not done
  • Development: "On 24 October 2011 it was announced that the pair were to leave the show" should be comma after "2011"
  • Storyline development: "In the 19 September 2011 episode", which episode is that? - not done The 19th September 2011 episode...? Episodes do not have names in EastEnders.
  • Doesn't say anything about casting, could it be added? - not done-- There is none, as she was a guest character originally.
  • Reception: Should be an introduction rather than jumping to reviews right away how about starting with: "Poppy Meadow received mixed reviews from television critics". If it didn't get mixed reviews, change to either "positive" or "negative" not done This starting sentence is more for episodes, not for characters. Throughout the Reception there is many places which say this, just not in that form.
  • Reception: Although it should say "Huffington Post", it should still be linked to "The Huffington Post" done
  • References: Ref. 5: Trinity Mirror should be linked on Ref. 5, then unlinked on Ref. 10 done}}
  • References: Ref. 6 should link to Digital Spy, and Hachette Filipacchi UK partly done
  • References: Ref. 9: Hachette Filipacchi UK should now be unlinked per the above done
  • References: You have a unnecessary "These critics include:" in the References section - not done No this is correct.
  • References: Ref. 40: Huffington Post should say "The Huffington Post" done
  • Add an external link to IMDb for Poppy Meadow, which is here not done

TBrandley 14:45, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some replies from Malleus Fatuorum
  • "The 'alt' for the lede image should not be 'A promotional image of Poppy Meadow, portrayed by Rachel Bright', That doesn't help the reader, should what she is doing, wearing, etc. Example: 'A man with short brown hair and a buttoned shirt in front of a microphone.' That's just an example I got from another article. Please fix"
There's a profound misunderstanding of the purpose of alt text evident throughout Wikipedia; it's not there to describe the image, it's to serve as a substitute for it. I've changed the alt text to "Photograph", as the caption is adequate to describe the image but the Wikimedia software forces us to have something.
  • "References should not be used in the lede of article ...".
That's simply untrue.
  • "How can you 'become engaged' you 'get engaged'"
Of course you can become engaged, which is arguably less informal than "get engaged".
  • IMDb is not a reliable source.
  • Per IMDB, it is fine as an external link (and for film-related articles often expected, although not required) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:27, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

: I will fix some issues now, but in the last FA review I was told to unlink some works and publishers on references, this time however we are being told to link them? — M.Mario (T/C) 15:56, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Supported below

  • Should baby-swap be hyphenated? Going by the Beeb style guide, it shouldn't, likewise The Guardian or Daily Mail, it's only Digital Spy who choose to hypenate it. done
  • "Poppy returns months later, to help Tanya Branning (Jo Joyner) after Tanya" consider "Poppy returns months later, to help Tanya Branning (Jo Joyner), who is hired by Janine Butcher (Charlie Brooks) to do..." in order to avoid repetition. done
  • "describing her as as" remove extra 'as' - Where is this? done— M.Mario (T/C) 17:07, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

– Lemonade51 (talk) 16:50, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support given comments have been addressed. Nice to see Poppy back on the soap, albeit limited screen time. Perhaps the best example of a bit-part character on TV I could think of. Lemonade51 (talk) 01:22, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments: Supported below I don't know what an "EastEnder" is, but I'm willing to review the article, if you pardon my ignorance. The article seems to be in decent shape, I have a few questions and suggestions on the prose though.
  1. In the lead you note the affiliations of most critics, but don't do so for Heritage. Was that intentional?
  2. I think you should use endashes in the infobox instead of emdashes.
  3. Consider delinking some duplicate links (unless you think there's enough distance between them), check Tanya Branning, Jo Joyner, Janine Butcher, Charlie Brooks, and Anthony Moon.
  4. "chatting in The Queen Victoria about their daily life and current affairs." Not sure if it's a preference issue, but I'd say "daily lives" here.
  5. "Tyler Moon (Tony Discipline) flirts with Poppy, who rejects his advances, until after having revealed that she is having problems with her boyfriend she decides to date Tyler, to make Julian jealous." Is there a good way to tighten this sentence? It feels a bit wordy to me.
  6. "She was introduced by executive producer Bryan Kirkwood on 11 January 2011 as the best friend of established character Jodie Gold (Kylie Babbington) in scenes that filled in for those cut from a controversial baby swap storyline resulting from the death of one of the babies." I'd consider ending the sentence after "storyline", I think that's enough detail for the lead.
  7. "but Poppy discovers his secret and warns him and Lauren that if they do not tell Jodie then she will." Seems a bit wordy, maybe "but Poppy discovers his secret and threatens to tell Lauren if they do not."?
  8. "Tyler tricks the two girls into meeting up" Is "meeting up" the best way to say this? How about "meeting each other"?
  9. "Poppy has shown to forgive Anthony, and her, Fatboy and him go for drinks" How about "Poppy is shown to forgive Anthony, and they go for drinks with Fatboy."?
  10. A spokesperson for the show commented that Poppy has become "a successful nail artist" since her departure.[19] However, as Poppy's storylines progressed, viewers learnt that Poppy is, in fact, not a "successful" nail artist, as she says this just to impress Tanya”. You quote “a successful nail artist” in the first sentence, but just “successful” in the second.
  11. I made some copyedits as I went through, feel free to revert if you don’t like them.
  12. There are a lot of quotes in “Characterisation”, might want to try to paraphrase some of the short ones. Ditto for the reception section.
  13. ”Hawkins assessed the situation Poppy was in; "as everyone knows, Poppy's loyalties lie with Jodie” Is the semilcolon correct here?
  14. ”and said that while the character was also interested in Jodie, he was put "on the spot" by Poppy and therefore did what he thought was expected of him in asking her out.” This feels a bit wordy to me, is there a good way to tighten it?
  15. You have “RTÉ” in the storyline section, but RTE in the previous section.
  16. ”A Inside Soap writer predicted that Anthony had landed himself in a big mess” This might just be a preference issue, but it doesn’t sound right to say that she predicted something that had already happened (at the time of the prediction).
  17. ”A source told RTÉ” A source from the show?
  18. ”a The Huffington Post critic” Might just be me, but I’d prefer “a critic writing for The Huffington Post”. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:54, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Replies
1. No obvious reason why Heritage's affiliation should be omitted, so I've added it. Malleus Fatuorum 16:01, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
2. Done. Malleus Fatuorum 21:50, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
3. Fixed.Malleus Fatuorum 01:39, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
4. Agreed. Changed "life" to "lives". Malleus Fatuorum 21:55, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
5. Rewritten, see what you think, Malleus Fatuorum 23:33, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
6. Done. Malleus Fatuorum 21:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
7. Reworded as per suggestion. Malleus Fatuorum 19:23, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
8. I think "meeting up" is fine. Malleus Fatuorum 21:50, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
9. Changed to "Poppy forgives Anthony, and they go for a drink with Fatboy." Malleus Fatuorum 21:50, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
10. Done. — M.Mario (T/C) 12:59, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
11. They seem fine. Malleus Fatuorum 00:38, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
12. I think this is fine, the quotes cannot (especially in Characterization), be made shorter) — M.Mario (T/C) 12:59, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
13. No, the semicolon isn't right. Changed it to a colon. Malleus Fatuorum 21:50, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
14. I've rewritten that area, see what you think now. Malleus Fatuorum 19:05, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
15. Fixed. Malleus Fatuorum 16:23, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
16: Changed to "”A Inside Soap writer predicted that Anthony was heading for trouble ...”. Malleus Fatuorum 18:05, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
17: Presumably, but all the source cited says is "A source said", so we can hardly say more. Malleus Fatuorum 17:57, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
18: Agreed, changed. Malleus Fatuorum 00:37, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the fixes guys, I'm close to supporting, but I'll go over the article one more time before doing so. Hopefully I can get to it soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:33, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see we have "controversial baby swap storyline" in the lead and then "controversial baby-swap storyline" in "Development", I think the latter is correct?
    Indeed, and I see you've already fixed that. Malleus Fatuorum 01:10, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in the style of reality-drama series" Should this be a hyphen or an endash?
    A hyphen. Malleus Fatuorum 01:05, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In "Development" you have "confirmed" in consecutive sentences, might want to use a different word in one. "return" is used a lot too.
    Rewritten. Malleus Fatuorum 01:05, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, as Poppy's storylines progress viewers learn that Poppy is not in reality a "successful nail artist", she was just trying to impress Tanya." I'd suggest "However, as Poppy's storylines progress viewers learn that this is not true: she was just trying to impress Tanya." or something similar.
    Rewritten as "A spokesperson for the show claimed that Poppy had become "a successful nail artist" since her departure, but as Poppy's storylines progress that is revealed to be untrue; Poppy was trying to impress Tanya." Malleus Fatuorum 01:28, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bright called Poppy "fabulous", "cool" and "dappy" compared to her in real life." I don't recall hearing the word "dappy" before, I assume this makes sense in the UK?
    "Dappy" is a modern British slang word, a merging of "dippy" and "daffy"; I've added a note to explain. Malleus Fatuorum 01:05, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can't read that without laughing for some reason. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:48, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the lead you say "Poppy returned to the series in June 2011 as a supporting character and comedy element, in a move that was generally welcomed by the tabloid press", but it looks like more than just tabloids welcomed her back, right?
    All look like the tabloid press to me, which do you think aren't? Malleus Fatuorum 01:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • You're right, I was thinking of the guardian, but I guess they're only quoted about the initial episodes. Looks like everything's in good shape then. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pending resolution of my final nitpicks, spotchecks etc. While this is an unfamiliar subject to me, I think this is in great shape, particularly considering that it's about a minor character in a soap opera. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:09, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment re lead I don't think we can promote with the current over-detailed lead paragraph. I have discussed this in talk and (twice) trimmed it per WP:LEAD. I am disinclined to edit-war and having it like this makes me lean towards opposing. --John (talk) 13:36, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I personally feel that the lead is fine in length. For example, look at FA classed article Pauline Fowler (third paragraph), and this was passed. I feel the lead flows well, and shows non biased information, that reflects the article. — M.Mario (T/C) 15:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously you personally prefer that version, as it was you who reverted my change without discussion. The Pauline Fowler article is a lot longer and covers a far more substantial character. I didn't make the change lightly; I discussed it in talk first. I repeat, I don't think it can pass with the current lead. --John (talk) 18:38, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I should have expressed my opinions on the talk page first, and I apologize for that. I do feel the article is better with the current lead. Im not sure whether you wont support the article per FA criteria, or personal preference. — M.Mario (T/C) 20:08, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Criterion 2a covers the lead. At the moment the article does not, in my view, meet this criterion. If it was merely personal preference I would hardly be discussing it here. --John (talk) 21:05, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize if that sounded ignorant. I have cut the lead, better? — M.Mario (T/C) 22:04, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Supported below

  • "moves out of her mother's home and into a flat with Jodie" what is a flat?
I'm not going to change it to "apartment" as in England, that makes it sound a nice place, when in fact it wasnt. A "flat" is literally what English call a apartment. Does it need linking - not sure.
Well I just wanted to know, in that case the talk page needs {{British English}} so others can understand that it is written in British English and not American English. Best, Jonatalk to me 18:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Poppy returns months latert to help" typo found
Done
  • You link The Sun what about The Mirror?
Linked in the Lead.
What about the "Development" section? Best, Jonatalk to me 18:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • You've linked Tanya Branning (Jo Joyner), Janine Butcher (Charlie Brooks), Anthony Moon, the Daily Star, the Daily Mail, Daily Mirror, twice in the article body
Done
Done
  • It's The Guardian not Guardian
It reads better in the way it is.
I'll let someone else debate on that because I've been told to keep consistency regarding things like this. Best, Jonatalk to me 18:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why link Digital Spy in the second occurrence? Secondly it shouldn't be italicized since it is not a printed source like a newspaper.
Done
  • "Commenting on Poppy's 2012 return the BBC said:" can you reinstate this sentence? I don't like the "the BBC said" part.
Done
  • Compare FN#4 with FN#1
  • FN#6 should Digital Spy be italicized? According to Wikipedia it is not a printed source but a website. FN#9 has it with a different publisher, which one is it?
Done first part, the publisher changed from Hachette to Hearst sometime in August 2011, so the publisher is Hearst for some, Hachette for others.
Alright. Jonatalk to me 18:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:ALT for image is needed, you need to further explain what the image is instead of saying "alt=Photograph".
See above points, the photograph does not need this.
I hope this helps and once you have done all of these I will support the article's passing. Best, Jonatalk to me 15:36, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ive done most of the points above Jona, just some have already been explained in the rest of the review. — M.Mario (T/C) 16:21, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have done the first point, but with Poppy being a small article, I think readers wont dont need newspapers linking twice. Much thaks for your comments! — M.Mario (T/C) 19:36, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I now support the article as my concerns have been addressed. Best, Jonatalk to me 22:09, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support based on all WP:FA?. I think it can now be represented as one of Wikipedia's finest articles. TBrandley 20:47, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks

  • Article: The EastEnders website describes Poppy as "a little bit 'uncomplicated'", but "no push over" and that she "brings out the best in everyone".[7]
  • Source: Poppy may come across as... how shall we say... a little bit 'uncomplicated'...But she isn't necessarily the pushover that she seems. But don't be fooled into thinking she's a pushover. This soft-hearted girl has courage...The best thing about Poppy? How she brings out the best in everyone...[7]
  • Article: In the 19 September 2011 episode, Poppy discovers that Jodie's fiance Darren (Hawkins) has cheated on her.[6]
  • Source: I can't see where it says this.
  • Article: Poppy's introduction to EastEnders in what Jody Thompson of the Daily Mail described as "a bizarre and utterly irrelevant chat"[1] was criticised by Daniella Graham of the Metro, who said that "viewers were left questioning why on earth anyone thought this pointless sub-plot was necessary."[2]
  • Source: Instead, a bizarre and utterly irrelevant chat between Jodie Gold and brand new character Poppy Meadow in the Queen Vic was put into the show instead.[1] As Jody and Poppy moved on to chat about peanuts, viewers were left questioning why on earth anyone thought this pointless sub-plot was necessary.
  • Article: In Poppy's return storyline, she arrived back in Walford to help Tanya (Joyner) with Janine's (Brooks) wedding preparations. A spokesperson for the show claimed that Poppy had become "a successful nail artist" since her departure,[20]
  • Source: "Poppy is drafted in by Tanya to help prepare Janine for her big day. But now working as a successful nail artist, who knows how long she'll stay?" [20]
  • Article: Poppy also decides to leave London and goes to live with her mother in Essex,[7]
  • Source: Poppy packed her bags and moved back to her mum's in Essex when she discovered that best mate Jodie'd kissed her boyfriend Anthony. [7]
  • Article: According to an EastEnders spokesperson, there was potential for Poppy to return in the future;[15]
  • Source: "Like Norman, Poppy had always been a supporting character, not a regular, however we may well see her return again in the future." [15]

Reply

I have fixed the highlighted issue. — M.Mario (T/C) 14:37, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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