Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/On Her Majesty's Secret Service (novel)/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 23 May 2024 [1].

On Her Majesty's Secret Service (novel)[edit]

Nominator(s): SchroCat (talk) 04:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RL events meant I had to withdraw the last nom and take a break from FAC for a month, but it’s time for this to return now. All constructive comments welcome. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 04:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:07, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Nikkimaria. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 05:12, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from PMC[edit]

Per my previous support. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:14, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks PMC: it was much appreciated then and again now, Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 05:24, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Tim riley[edit]

I supported last time and support again. Three v. minor points from a rereading:

"Goldeneye, his holiday home in Jamaica" – I had the impression from various biographies of Noël Coward that Goldeneye was Fleming's main residence, but I see from Lycett's biography (p. 236) that his main residence was in London. No need to mention that here, but I wonder if you, as the main editor of the FA on Fleming, might clarify that in his article?
I haven't been near that article since the IB warriors made it all so unpleasant. If one of them wants to do it, I'll leave it to them. - SchroCat (talk) 09:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"For more than a year, the Secret Service agent James Bond ..." – should Secret Service be capitalised? Lycett lower-cases it and so does our brief Wikipedia article.
I think it probably should be capitalised. It was the proper (if fictional) name that Fleming gave the organisation, so I think it should be kept. (The secret service article is talking about the generic use of the term, which is why it's lower case). - SchroCat (talk) 09:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the third para of the development section Lanne-Mirrlees is given both barrels of his surname three times but is just Mirrlees once in between the others.
No idea how I missed that one. Now happily re-"Lanne-"ed. - SchroCat (talk) 09:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing there to unwangle my nurdles and I'm happy to repeat my support for the elevation of this article to FA. – Tim riley talk 09:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for these, Tim: all dealt with for this article, and thank you for your third set of comments on this. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Draken Bowser[edit]

Smashing, ain't nothing left to do here but to pledge.

"the line of the Bonds of Peckham" - was this introduced at some earlier point? I'm not quite following.
Style: I'd prefer using the full name for the first mention of "Amis", "Palmer" and "Benson", at least for "Palmer" who wasn't mentioned in the preceding section, and similarly for "McDermid", "Black" and "Sauerberg" under "Themes".

Regards. Draken Bowser (talk) 21:46, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks Draken Bowser. I'm not a huge fan of repeating the first name after the first use, but I've taken a middle path with these suggestions, and if the name was not given in the preceding section, then I've added the first name here for clarity. I think that means I've done all but one (possibly two) of your suggestions above. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:03, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from KJP1[edit]

In gobbets, over the weekend. Feel free to respond as I go, or once I'm done, when I'll ping you. After an initial read through, I'm expecting them to be minor.

Lead

"Bond finds Blofeld based in Switzerland and attacks the centre where he is based" - drop the first "based" to avoid repetition?
"to deal with the disruption of markets and the economy" - I wonder about a bluelink for "markets", to ensure readers don't think Blofeld is overturning vegetable stalls, etc.?
"disruption to the food supply" - similarly, you could link "disruption to the food supply".

Plot

"tracking down the private criminal organisation SPECTRE" - I'm assuming "private" is to compare it to something like the Wagner Group, and contrast it with a national organisation such as SMERSH, but it still reads slightly oddly to me. "organised crime enterprise/operation SPECTRE"?
"Blofeld's lair atop Piz Gloria, a fictional mountain in the Swiss Alps" - I see that Piz Gloria is actually the Schilthorn and that it has a, rather spectacularly-sited, restaurant, the Piz Gloria, atop its peak. But as you're writing about the novel, rather than the film, all this may be irrelevant!
"The two of them drive off on their honeymoon but, a few hours later, Blofeld and Bunt drive past firing a machine gun; Tracy is killed in the attack" - to avoid the repetition and as Bunt is the only one firing the machine gun, perhaps, "The two of them depart on their honeymoon but, a few hours later, Blofeld and Bunt attack the car and Tracy is killed"? I had to watch the last part of the film to remind myself of this scene - Lazenby was a rather wooden actor!

Thanks KJP1. All these covered, and I'm happy to see any more of you comments. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:13, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Development - Inspirations

"The name "Hilary Bray" was that of an old-Etonian" - quite prepared for you or Salome Otterbourn to tell me I'm wrong, but does "old Etonian" require the hyphen here?
I don't think so, or, at least, I don't think I've ever seen is used in such a way (technically, it would mean a current Etonian who is old, as opposed to that particular group of individuals with an overdeveloped and misplaced sense of self-entitlement, the Old Etonians). - SchroCat (talk) 10:11, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Our article on the splendidly-named Robin Ian Evelyn Milne Stuart le Comte de La Lanne-Mirrlees claims that Lanne-Mirrlees was actually a/the main model for Bond. It's sourced to a pay-walled Telegraph obit, which I can't access. But other sources also suggest his character, particularly his frequent bed-hopping, as a source for Bond's own predilections, [2]! Worth a mention?
I've taken it out of the L-M article, as the source doesn't quite say what it's claiming to, and b. It's utter tosh! OHMSS was the eleventh Bond book Fleming wrote, by which point most of the character (including the bed-hopping, which was one of Fleming's own traits), had already been included in the character a long time before. - SchroCat (talk) 10:11, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Publication and reception - Publication history

"the remainder were signed and marked For Presentation" - purely for information, I see the lovely, and expensive, sellers, Adrian Harrington, had Lanne-Mirrlees' signed copy for sale for 11,000 dollars! [3]
Wow... Mind you, it's something like £25k for a fine copy of a first edition Casino Royale, so I'm not too surprised at the big figures! - SchroCat (talk) 10:37, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And that's my lot. Trivial indeed, and am pleased to Support. KJP1 (talk) 10:26, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much KJP; a pleasure as always. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 10:37, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I gave the article a full run-out on its previous visit here, and now have nothing left to complain about. It is an excellent piece of work. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 05:58, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks UndercoverClassicist, your comments last time were extremely helpful. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 08:32, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Good to see you still improving those Bond articles. igordebraga ≠ 20:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers igordebraga! Good to see your name pop up on my watchlist too. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 02:27, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

Spot-check upon request. Is there a logic for which sources have ISBN and which OCLC? Don't know most of these sources but they seem to be reasonably well-cited and from prominent authors. Bit less certain about the news sources as they don't have much of an online footprint (too old, I guess). Given the prominence of James Bond, I figure you can't consult literally every source that exists, even for this novel only. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:43, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Jo-Jo Eumerus. For the ISBNs, I've given them for all the books which have them, but anything without (normally published before c.1968), I've given the OCLC instead. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 08:37, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from JennyOz[edit]

Hi SchroCat, a few last minute comments from me. (Sorry if any already addressed)

top

short des - add 1963 in front

plot

in an attempt to blackmail the western world - cap Western
upon which post-Second World War Britain - that hyphen needs to be a MOS:PREFIXDASH?

Background and writing history

Henry Chancellor - link Henry Chancellor (filmmaker)

Inspirations

The connection between M and the inspiration for his character, Rear Admiral John Godfrey, was made apparent with Bond visiting Quarterdeck, M's home. Bond rings the ship's bell for HMS Repulse, M's last command: it was Godfrey's ship too. - What is the association here? Does M have the bell at his home as a keepsake? If so maybe insert 'There' before "Bond rings"
Fleming's superior officer in Naval Intelligence Division (NID) during the war - the Naval Intelligence Division?
Donald McLachlan - add link
This he asserts, is "culturally problematic" for modern readers. - context? ie was Chapman referring to readers of the 1960s or later? 'more' modern?
Domino Vitali - has an article, not linked intentionally?
Synott notes that not only are - typo Synnott

Style

designed to be read as literature'."[5] Are double quotes meant to be after full stop?
On this occasion, yes, as the quote is a grammatical full sentence. - SchroCat (talk) 14:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Where the sweep is broken, it is at the visit to the College of Arms and at with the meeting at M's house; - are both "at" and "with" meant to be there before "the meeting"?

Themes

Lars Ole Sauerberg sees the assistance Draco give Bond as a manner of distinguishing - gives?

Critical reception

Robert Kirsch - add link
phenomenon of [[Arthur Conan Doyle|Conan Doyle's]] ''[[Sherlock Holmes]]'' stories - maybe move the apos s on Doyle outside of the link to avoid two blue links together?

Adaptations

With the films being produced in a different order than the books - "different than" is US style, 'different to' is British?

Notes

Note f - Is the mix of spellings "whiskey" and "whisky" (and its plural "whiskies"), and then "scotches", coming from the refs?
Partly, but in BrEng, we're used to spelling whiskey and whisky differently because we drink the Irish and Scotch variants (and, obviously, US whiskey too). - SchroCat (talk) 14:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I.W. Harper bourbon - pipe link to Isaac Wolfe Bernheim

References

Same page numbers just a coincidence here?

75 Panek 1981, pp. 213–214.

76 Fleming 1963, pp. 213–214.

McLusky et al. 2011 - give Lawrence authorlink James Duncan Lawrence (author)?

Misc

I think the Wikiquote box is meant to be in External links? per MOS:ELLAYOUT "Links to sister projects"
DEFAULTSORT:On Her Majesty's Secret Service (Novel) - is cap intentional?

Regards, JennyOz (talk) 13:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks JennyOz; all covered, I hope, in these edits. As always, thank you so much for your excellent comments. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 14:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for all SchroCat. Happy to s'port. JennyOz (talk) 02:52, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks JennyOz; many thanks for everything. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 05:09, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.