Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Live Show/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 18:38, 21 December 2011 [1].

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Live Show

Live Show (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Live Show/archive1

Nominator(s): —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:25, 25 November 2011 (UTC) and User:ThinkBlue

I am nominating this for featured article because it easily passed GA and taking a look at other FA television episode articles (e.g. Road to the Multiverse), I think that this is of comparable quality. ThinkBlue helped me write this, so I'm posting to his talk as well. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:25, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

• Preliminary comment: As 30 Rock is aired in HD, it would be better to take a screenshot from a HD stream and downscale it rather than taking a screenshot from a downscaled stream. It's not a major issue; it's rather general advice regarding image fidelity, as a) I know that NBC/Universal doesn't do Blu-Ray releases for its television properties, and b) I can't tell in this instance if you've used a SD or HD stream. Sceptre ^(talk) 16:00, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:33, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

• Generally speaking, ellipses should not be bracketed
• Be consistent in whether you provide publishers for magazines/newspapers
• What makes this a high-quality reliable source? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:33, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Done —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:25, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Image review

• File:30_Rock_-_Live_Show.jpg: should mention this is the main infobox image, need to identify copyright holder
• File:SNL_stage.jpg: it is unclear to me what the copyright status of a set would be wrt freedom of panorama laws in the US. Can you clarify?
• File:11.4.10UprightCitizensBrigadeTheatreByLuigiNovi1.jpg, based on the description, would seem to require caption attribution. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Partially done Can CC-BY-SA demand an attribution on each article? WP:CAPTION says that "Generally, this is only included in the caption if the photographer is notable." —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Usually not, but in this case it appears that the photographer has requested one. It also seems that he's an active Wikipedian, so you could ask. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:58, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Resolved I'll swap it out for File:Upright Citizens Brigade Theatre, New York City.jpg —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:16, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Comments: I am a little surprised at the lack of substantive comments during this FAC, but I'll do what I can to get some discussion going. This show does not air in England (unless it's on some remote pay-to-view channel) so I know nothing about it.

• I don't understand the hatnote: For the television terminology, see live television. What am I being asked to do here?
• I am curious to know if there is any particular reason why, from I guess 100+ episodes, you chose this particular one to push for featured status. Was it particularly well received, or does it have any particular characteristic that stands it apart from the others? This is not of course relevant to the article's possible FA status, but it would be interesting to know.
• This should be a standalone article, not requiring any particular knowledge of the series to understand it. From this perspective, as a newcomer to the show I found the abbreviated plot synopsis in the lead difficult to understand. The summary needs to be preceded by a line or two of context, indicating the general nature of the series. For example, if this was an episode from Frasier I'd expect you to say something like: "Frasier records the lives and loves, trials and triumphs of Seattle radio psychiatrist Frasier Crane and his family and friends". That way I would get my bearings.
• Another confusion: The main plot section begins: "Liz Lemon (Tina Fey)...", yet the infobox refers to "Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Liz Lemon in cut-away sequences". There is no doubt a simple explanation for this
• Prose issues
  • Why "an homage"? The "h" is not silent
  • "In the final act of the show, Jack conspires with the cast and crew to give Liz a last-minute birthday surprise which he wants to appear like they planned all along and Carol safely lands his plane." Two wholly separate events should not joined in the same sentence by an "and". Also, grammar: "which he wants to appear like they planned all along". Perhaps "which he wants to appear as though it had been planned all along."
  • Likewise, the next sentence loses control of itself: "All they can muster on short notice is a polka band and a large cake with Fonzie on it—gifts that were intended to celebrate janitor Jadwiga's (Rachel Dratch) birthday, who proceeds to ruin the TGS goodnights and tear into the cake with her bare hands." This is two sentences, with a natural break after "birthday", followed by "She proceeds..."
  • A recurrent issue in the prose section is the insertion of the actor's name after a possessive, e.g. "Dr. Leo Spaceman's (Chris Parnell) new album...", "Drew Baird's (Jon Hamm) public service announcement..." etc. I'm not sure how to resolve this, but it reads very awkwardly (try reading it out loud). Is there any other way of imparting this information that does not fracture the sentence?
  • There are other mega-length sentences. I'm not going to list them all, but, for example: "The decision was made in part due to lagging ratings for all of NBC's Must-See TV line-up,[2] and the idea was originally conceived during the 2007–2008 Writers Guild of America strike, when the cast performed two live versions of the season two episode "Secrets and Lies" as a benefit[3] at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theatre in New York City." Later in the section the sentence beginning "In addition, the two episodes..." is even longer. Work out ways of splitting these, and look out for others.
  • "The two separate recordings of the episode resulted in a live telecast to American viewers in both the East and West Coasts of the United States..." Why are we talking about "recordings"? I understood we had two live performances.
  • Insert "as" before "Aladdin"
  • Women don't "deliver" their children

I will check out the last couple of sections to see what else needs fixing, but perhaps you would respond to these points. Brianboulton (talk) 18:37, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Response I'm glad that you're not familiar with the show--it will provide excellent perspective on the topic. I guess I'll go point-by-point:

• Fixed?
• Simply because I worked on it. It's a somewhat notable episode, for having been broadcast live, but it's not exactly ground-breaking. The co-nom for this has brought several 30 Rock-related articles to GA status solo, but we collaborated for this one.
• Better?
• Is this intelligible now? The joke is that the show is shot live, but there are multiple sets, so when the camera cuts away, one actress is portraying the character in one locale and a different one is portraying her in the other. Is this communicated now?
• Prose issues
  • This may be an ENGVAR issue, but I've only ever heard "homage" pronounced "oh-mahj."
  • Done
  • Done
  • Done
  • Done-ish. As I pointed out in the GA process, prose is my biggest weakness. I'll keep on going through it to work on the awkward phraseology.
  • Good point. Done.
  • Done.
  • Obviously. Done.

I'd like to think this is a good start and that this article can be easily promoted, even if it is not up to FA status at the moment. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:31, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.