Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Krulak Mendenhall mission

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 02:16, 21 May 2008.

Krulak Mendenhall mission[edit]

Article about US policy mission to South Vietnam in 1963, best known for JFK's famous question to his two advisers as to whether they visited the same country... Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose, I'm sorry but this is not ready for FA yet. Some basics need to be addressed before closer examination is possible. The prose is unpolished and in need of a thorough copyedit. Issues are easily spotted just in the lead: "The stated purpose of the expedition was to investigate the progress of the war by South Vietnam and the American military advisers against the Viet Cong insurgency." (Clarity, reads as if the war was the advisers vs. the Viet Cong); "... religious discrimination of President Ngo Dinh Diem escalated." (by, not of); "Following the raids on Buddhist pagodas on August 21 which left an estimated triple-figure death toll" (which -> that). The images are placed such that some headings are not left-aligned. No journal or newspaper sources? --Laser brain (talk) 14:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
At the time of the expedition it was a government secret so there would be no newspaper sources. I didn't find anything on JSTOR and the three books are all by history professors anyway, so we should be fine. I have done a copyedit and expand of the lead, which was the only part I forgot to ce last week. Hopefully the main body is more representative. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The lack of wikification in some sections concerns me. Wizardman 22:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a few, but mostly the article discusses the same thing over and over. Also because the article is about a policy debate, there was not much proper noun usage. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support My one complaint here is that the lead seems a little a long; could it be shortened any? Otherwise it meets my criteria for FA status, so I have no complaints. TomStar81 (Talk) 17:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've pruned it a bit, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Alright then. TomStar81 (Talk) 01:22, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, great work. Detailed comments Looking good - some fixes needed yet.
Issues resolved. --Laser brain (talk) 03:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Work still needed on image placement - at least two of the headings are not left-aligned.
      • Should be fixed now. It looks fine in my view (Firefox, 1440x900). Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 00:31, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • At 1680x1050, Kennedy bumps the Debate heading. But, maybe it's a non-issue. Most people probably don't run resolutions this high. --Laser brain (talk) 03:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Following the raids on Buddhist pagodas on August 21 that left an estimated triple-figure death toll..." I'd prefer a more detailed estimate than that. "Triple-figure" could mean 100 or 999.
Tried to tweak. It says estimates range up to a few hundred. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If that's all the source says, that's what we say. --Laser brain (talk) 03:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The general felt that the Vietnamese soldiers' efforts in the field would not be affected by unease with the Diem's policies." Why "the Diem's" and not just "Diem's"?
Simple error. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The self-immolation of Buddhist monk Thich Quang Duc at a busy Saigon intersection was a public relations disaster for the Diem regime, and as protests continued, the Army of the Republic of Vietnam Special Forces loyal to his brother Ngo Dinh Nhu, raided pagodas across the country on August 21, killing hundreds and causing extensive damage under the declaration of martial law." There is a bit too much going on in this sentence. Please separate the self-immolation from the rest of it and be more specific about your subject when you say "his brother".
Fixed I think. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "... Krulak ordered Mecklin to leave the film in Alaska" suggest Krulak was Mecklin's superior which I don't think was the case. Suggest something other than "ordered". Maybe "allowed"?
Changed to "called upon"
    • "Krulak was a short and fiery marine known for his belief in using military action to achieve foreign affairs objectives." I think this is a bit POV.. can we just say "Krulak was known for his belief..."?
Yes. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • When you list the three measures Phillips recommended, consider using bullets unless they are meant to be chronological. Check MoS for punctuation on these. --Laser brain (talk) 15:03, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think I;ve fixed these. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A good article on an interesting topic which meets the FA criteria. Nick Dowling (talk) 08:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • I suggest you make the one-line quote in the lead inline.
I would rather not, because the quote came to be the symbol of the mission in history books. In some books, which are more into an overview of Vietnam rather than the events of 1963 specifically, there is often only 1-2 sentences on this mission, and the quote is always one of them. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redundancy: As news of such tactics spread across the capital, some monks sought refuge in the Saigon homes of ARVN officers; there's a few others as well (with the word "all"), maybe some that I didn't find.
I don't believe this is redundant. The source implies that this was not a general and majority/widespread thing that was done by monks. As for "all", that is to indicate that Krulak\Mendenhall thought that *all* groups felt something or other, rather than just society generally, since that might mean 75% in general but maybe 0% in certain social subgroups and so forth. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The mission was led by United States Marine Corps Major General Victor Krulak and Joseph Mendenhall, a senior Foreign Service Officer experienced in dealing with Vietnamese affairs." - inconsistent phrasing, probably grammatically incorrect; should be rephrased.
Fixed. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr.." - should there be two periods? I'm not sure, so I didn't change it myself.
Yes because his name is Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. so at the end of the sentence we need 2. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I might find more later. Nousernamesleftcopper, not wood 23:17, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Editors I've encountered seem extremely divided over redundancy... ah well, not that it matters. Nousernamesleftcopper, not wood 01:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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