User talk:Xenxax/Archive 1

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Welcome!

Hello, Xenxax, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!--Mishae (talk) 22:13, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Author/last issues

First, thanks for your work in eliminating the depreciated coauthor entries in citations. However, is there a good reason you are changing last=A|first=B style to author=A, B? Doing the citations this way breaks harvard referencing. I'm aware that the {{cite <object>}} family (unlike {{citation}}) don't produce CITEREFs by default, but that is another issue. To illustrate the problem consider the two citations:

cite book |author1=Fryde, E. B. |author2=Greenway, D. E. |author3=Porter, S. |author4=Roy, I. |title=... | ref=harv
cite book |last1=Fryde | first1=E. B. |last2=Greenway|first2= D. E. |last3=Porter|first3= S. |last4=Roy|first4= I. |title=... | ref=harv

They produce the HTML

span id="CITEREFFryde.2C_E._B.Greenway.2C_D._E.Porter.2C_S.Roy.2C_I.1996" class="citation book">Fryde, E. B.; ...
span id="CITEREFFrydeGreenwayPorterRoy1996" class="citation book">Fryde, E. B.; ...

with very different CITEREFs that will break any attempt to use {{sfn}} or {{harv}} for short form referencing.

Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 18:02, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm really sorry if I've been creating any problems, Martin ... certainly not intentional.

Why I've been making the changes from "last" to "author" in the pages of early English bishops:

I'd been repairing a lot of the "Fryde et al" deprecated citations by using "last1=Fryde" etc. Then (while I was not directly contacted) I noticed that another editor - who'd been a significant contributor to these pages and even created many of them - was unhappy that I was using "last" instead of "author" ... and he/she had changed a couple of them from "last' to 'author'. I realized I had been making a mistake in not honoring the preferred style of citation for these pages. I've tried in the last few days to change the "last"s I had done to "author" so they were to the liking of the editors who were most vested in these pages. I had no idea these required the "| ref=harv" since it was never in the originally deprecated parameter. And I didn't notice the "harv" in the other citations either. (Perhaps only the longer pages with many references have them.)

Please advise. I feel pretty bad about this ... thought I was doing something small but useful to improve Wikipedia

Also ... about the "repaired deprecated" pages that I did with "last" and have not yet changed -- should I just leave them as they are? Or do I understand that they also need the | ref=harv? Xenxax (talk) 18:47, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

First: don't feel bad - if I had thought you were doing something wrong intentionally I would not have either been so polite or given a full explanation. You are clearly one of the good guys.

Keep going with getting rid of coauthors, that is valuable work. Don't however change the last/first style to author in future, but I wouldn't bother going back over it, what's done is done. Unfortunately many people don't add the ref=harv, it is a pity, but that is another issue altogether and one that I fix on any pages I'm working on. The alternative is to use {{citation}} which does the Harvard referencing automatically and also selects its display style according to the given parameters. Personally I use citation always. Have a look at All Saints Church, Frindsbury for an example of {{citation}}, {{sfn}} and {{efn}}. You'll see how clicking on the number guides you down to the details.

As regards the author who didn't like last/first; either ignore them or point them to this discussion, they may not be aware of the reason for preferring first/last.

Finally: don't feel bad and above all please don't be disheartened. The foregoing is meant to be educational, not critical. From the date on the welcome notice above you appear to fairly new to this so help and guidance is what you need, not a slap in the face. Remember "the man who never made a mistake never made anything". Regards and thanks Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Martin, both for your extremely clear explanation and for your kind words. All are are very much appreciated. For one, I hadn't realized there was a difference between 'cite' and 'citations' references, and two, I thought 'last' and 'author' were simply an interchangeable preference. Now I know better! I will keep the 'All Saints Church' page in my notes as a reference to double-check my edits in the future, though I may let you know the next time I do a 'citation' edit, just to make sure it was done correctly.

Thanks again, Martin! Xenxax (talk) 13:37, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

To let you know, Martin: I just repaired a deprecated parameter for Ralph de Warneville. I'm sure it's OK, especially as it's in a separate section called 'reference' and not in the section called 'citation' that connects with the actual footnotes. In any case, when I do these repairs, I'm now in the habit of double-checking that the footnote references are not broken. Again, thanks for your help! Xenxax (talk) 03:11, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I've just had a quick look and what you did was perfect. While I was there I also added the ref=harv, maybe someday I'll change the citations to use either {{harv}} or {{sfn}}, but that's for another day. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:40, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Martin.

By the way, I see this morning that "Ealdgyth" -- the same person whose edit caused me to start changing my citations from 'last=Fryde' to 'author=Fryde' -- has removed your 'ref=harv' additions from Ralph de Warneville. Perhaps I will stay away from early Normans in my future edits. :-)

Thanks again very much! I think I have a good understanding of all this now and have really appreciated your help. Xenxax (talk) 13:46, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Also on this topic of "repaired deprecated parameter" you will be much better off fixing the gadgets that produce these parameters in the first place. One fix could save you hundreds or thousands of edits. These are official gadgets available from the preferences tab that use first last and coauthors. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:20, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Graeme. I appreciate your writing to me and your helpful advice, though I'm not sure what you mean by saying that I'd be "better off fixing the gadgets that produce these parameters" ... or better said, I'm not sure how I would actually go about fixing these (or any) gadgets. That job seems well beyond my expertise. And I really don't mind making these edits directly to the pages - it's kind of meditative for me - and as far as I understand, my edits are small but still useful contributions towards improving Wikipedia. At least I hope that's true and that I haven't been wasting my time these recent months. Thanks again. Xenxax (talk) 00:46, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

I suppose I should have said that Wikipedia would be better off, since I was not understanding that you actually enjoy making these changes. If the gadgets used the recommended parameters then these changes would not be needed. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:02, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Good to know. Thanks very much for the clarification. Xenxax (talk) 02:51, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Changing a title of an article

How can I change the title of my article? Errol Francis Sawyer should become Errol Sawyer? I would really appreciate your assistance. Fred Bakker (talk) 14:52, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Hello Fred. Here is the section in 'Wikipedia FAQ' that explains how to rename an article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAQ#How_do_I_change_the_name_of_an_article.3F

Hopefully that will answer your question. You may also want to double-check with User:MatthewVanitas, since he accepted your article and is a Senior Editor. Very good and interesting article, by the way. - Xenxax (talk) 15:22, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Re: Pablo Escobar

It's alright! Glad I could help.

Cheers! :)

Sepguilherme (talk) 17:53, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Pär Rådström

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