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Re: Juve

What I originally said to spark these conversations on another user's talk page in which I fortunately stumbled across while Messirulez was chatting about Juventus, and I couldn't resist to reply!

User:Messirulez - Forza Juventus! Great Coppa Italia win! I hope we can win the 2015 UEFA Champions League Final next! Juventus made a great effort this year after a few years of disappointment in Europe competitions. After beating Real Madrid (which no one thought we would do) was a great accomplishment for the bianconeri and showed the world that Juve is a force to be reckoned with and is a world class team just like Bayern, Real, Barca, etc. I hope this puts Italian football back on the map, and would be the icing on the cake to win defeat Barcelona! Cheers from Toronto, second generation Italian-Canadian and fellow die hard Juventus fan! Your edits are great also :) Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 20:22, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

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Hello! Thank you, and thank you for your work as well. Yes, I'm very pleased with how the season has gone so far, and hopefully, despite our limitations, we can manage to capture the treble. I must say, considering the incredible teams we have had in the past (Trapattoni's Juve in the 80s, Lippi's in the 90s - even Capello's in the 2000s, which shockingly disappointed in Europe, despite the fact that 9 of its starting XI played in the 2006 World Cup Final...), as well as the overall competitiveness of Serie A in the 80s and 90s, it's actually quite incredible to think that, as good as this team is, this season is technically Juventus's best historically. The club has already won the domestic double and are in the Champions League final, despite all the injury problems (Asamoah, Caceres, Barzagli, Pirlo, Marchisio, Vidal, Pogba, Pepe, Romulo - not all at the same time, and some less serious than others, but still, we have been quite unlucky in that respect, although these things also help to build character, and certainly I think Marchisio stepped up when he had to fill in for Pirlo as the midfield playmaker in Dortmund; the same goes for Bonucci with Barzagli out, he has become much less error prone this season).

It's quite funny to think that at the beginning of the season everyone thought that Juve would fail miserably under Allegri, and some had even written us off in Serie A, feeling that Roma seemed stronger, more determined, and more united as a team (I'm surprised that they have done so badly in the second half of the season). He has truly done a great job, and I must say I am also surprised at how well the season has gone. I always thought he was a good manager at Milan, and that he was unfairly criticised, but I must admit that I also thought he was a bit too inconsistent and indecisive at times, and that he wasn't capable of motivating the team as much as other coaches, but he has proven me and many others wrong, and, regardless of the outcome of the Champions League final, he deserves a lot of praise for what he has done this season (moreover, hats off to him for discarding the 3-5-2 in Europe. As effective as it was the first season, it doesn't really work in the Champions League, unfortunately, although, to Conte's credit, it did work well for Italy when Prandelli used it against Spain in the opening match of Euro 2012, and in the 2013 Confed Cup semi-final...).

I know our draw in the UCL was favourable, and at times we were efficient rather than attractive (although we have demonstrated we can play good football over the years and over this season), so some would argue that we don't deserve to be in the final, but then again I think we have done well, and although we probably aren't yet one of the top four teams in Europe on paper, we still managed to come this far, and we do have some good players who previously just needed to gain experience and become a cohesive team unit, but who undoubtedly always demonstrated lots of potential, such as Marchisio, Vidal, Pogba, and Chiellini. Atletico de Madrid were still a tough side to beat this year in the gorup stage, and so were Borussia Dortmund (they have made a comeback domestically, after all), and Monaco have given PSG difficulties in Ligue 1 this season, and they knocked out Arsenal in the round of 16 of the UCL, so they are also not as weak as the media have made them out to be. The semi-final win was a fantastic achievement...to think that Cristiano Ronaldo, aside from the penalty and the free header, was kept quiet in both legs, is quite incredible. Furthermore, in past editions, the finalists and at times even the winners were usually always a bit fortunate, even when they were extremely deserving of the title; even Barcelona in 2009, to think that they were seconds away from elimination in the second leg of the semi-final against Chelsea, and then suddenly at the death, out of nowhere, Iniesta blasts Messi's seemingly innocuous cross-field pass with a first-time shot from outside the area into the top corner...imagine if that hadn't happened, how would we speak of that Barcelona side now?! And Man United in 1999, Liverpool in 2005, Chelsea in 2012...they were all quite fortunate to win the title those seasons, although credit goes to them for doing just that despite arguably being the weaker sides in their respective finals. Even Inter in 2010 had an "easier" quarter-final match-up than the other teams.

I really hope Juve can win the trophy by some miracle; it's been such a long time, and a player like Buffon really deserves to win it (also, Barca have won it quite often in recent years, so please, footballing gods, have some mercy!! haha), and it would also be nice for someone like Barzagli to win it, to reward his consistency over these years, as well as other Juve "warriors" such as Marchisio, Vidal, Chiellini, and a young talent like Pogba, among others. It will be a very difficult match, as Barca have improved a lot since last year; they are more organised and more solid defensively (although their defence is still probably their biggest area of weakness, although having said that, we have also made mistakes against Real, so we need to tighten things up against that attacking trio) and in goal, and they aren't quite as dependent on tiki-taka as in previous seasons which does make them a bit less predicatable. I still don't think this side is as good as Pep's side, however; they were really quite incredible to watch (although to me, in terms of success, as much as it pains me to say, the Sacchi-Capello Milan was probably the best club side of the past 30 years, or that I have seen at least...especially considering how strong Serie A was at the time. They could just grind out results, they were unbeatable in Italy, and between the two managers, they reached 5 champions league finals, also being the last team to defend the title). I also still think that it was under Pep that we saw the best Messi, even though this year he has still been fantastic (still the best player in the world), just not quite as good as he was between 2008-2012. On the upside, anything can happen in a final as it's a single match, and at least Juve are under-dogs on this occasion, so that never hurts, as probably most wouldn't have expected Juve to get this far. In 1997 we were favourites and we lost because we underestimated Borussia Dortmund, so I suppose anything can happen in theory. Fingers crossed and forza Juve!

Anyway, sorry for going on, filling up your page, and for being so verbose, but it's always nice to chat with a fellow Juventus fan. And also, Toronto is really a wonderful city! Hopefully Giovinco can do well with TFC! Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 03:50, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez. Wow you really know your stuff! I agree with all your points and were very interesting to read. I think the people that say that Juve should not be in the final are just jealous their team is not or are plain crazy! Sure we might have gotten "lucky" draws with Dortmund and Monaco, but then again didn't Bayern with Shaktar and Porto? It is always the luck of the draw and one cannot blame the draw for exiting the competition. I also agree that Buffon really needs to win the Champions League. This is virtually the only trophy he has not won in his career and would be amazing to see him lift this cup! A lot of people have also disregarded Buffon as one of the top keepers in the world, but did you see how we played against Real Madrid in the second leg! Absolutely amazing! Even though he may be older than others, he only ages like fine wine :) I too was unsure about Allegri at the beginning because of his performance with Milan, however took Juventus farther than most coaches in recent years. I hope that Conte can bring Italy to its former glory because he seems to be doing well with the national team, without a loss yet. The Crotia match is coming up for the World Cup Qualifiers, which will be a good test. I also hope that Giovinco can do something spectacular with TFC. When I heard of this transfer I was very happy :) He is the top scoring leader with 5 goals along with Altidore in only 10 games or so. They only sit in the middle of the table right now, but hope they can make the playoffs this year They even gave Manchester City a good run yesterday! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 11:38, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, again. Please feel free to delete my ramblings above (and these I am about to include!), by the way, if it's an inconvenience for you; I will not be offended! haha. Yes, every winning team usually needs a bit of luck, and as you have said, other teams have also had lucky draws in the past, and the winners arguably also make their own luck. I have to say, I wasn't even convinced by Allegri's 4-3-1-2/4-4-2 diamond at first, as that formation also seemed a bit too narrow and outdated, especially when everyone is required to help defensively in contemporary football, but it's not really a traditional 4-3-1-2 when they play anyway, as the midfield is quite fluid, and even against Real, Pogba was pushing onto the flanks, etc.

As for Gianluigi Buffon, he's the best goalkeeper I have ever seen to be honest, and I would argue that he's possibly the best of the past 30 years, as that is probably as far as I can judge, if not the best of all time, although I may be a bit biased! In his prime, I rate him above keepers like Zoff, Casillas, Zenga, Kahn, Peruzzi, Schmeichel, Neuer, Cech, Pagliuca, and Toldo, among others, who are/were also brilliant in their own right - he was so consistent during the 2002-2008 period in particular, prior to his injuries, and he didn't really have any weaknesses as a keeper, and rarely made errors, and as a young keeper he was also extremely precocious. Most people also don't realise that Neuer's "sweeping" was also arguably inspired by Buffon; I remember that he was so quick off his line when he was young, so if players ever beat the offside trap, he would often rush out and make sliding challenges - I also think his ability on the ball and distribution is/was underrated, especially as he began his career just a few years after the back-pass rule had been abolished. In all honesty, as good as Neuer is, I feel that he perfected the "Sweeper keeper" role, rather than revolutionise the goalkeeping role, as in the past, keepers like Chilavert, Barthez, Van der Saar, Higuita, Rogerio Ceni were all good with the ball and at distributing it, and in the 90s the Premier League keepers all had very long kicks because of the "long ball" strategy at the time. Furthermore, managers like Sacchi and Zeman, who were inspired by total football, they always needed their keepers, like Galli, Rossi, Marchegiani, among others, to be quick off their line and have decent distribution and an ability to read the game. So, in my opinion, what Neuer does technically isn't new, but he has perfected it, and on top of that, he is an excellent, imposing keeper, so he deserves the credit; I also think that already from 2010 he was already doing better than Casillas was.

It is incredible how consistent Buffon has been over the past 20 years, and even now that with age he is not as athletic, reactive, quick, or agile as he once was, his positioning, ball handling, organisational skills, leadership, and ability to interpret the game is what still makes him a top 5, and probably even top 3 keeper (Neuer and Courtois are younger so they are probably better right now, but I still think Gigi, for now at least, is better than other younger keepers like Hart, Lloris, Sirigu, Handanovic, Navas, Bravo, Ter Stegen, and De Gea). This season, for now at least, he has even arguably been the best keeper in Europe, alongside Neuer - and yes, he made some great saves against Real (as did Casillas, despite the foul throw, poor chap!) - particularly the ones against Benzema - I even think the headed save from the corner was brilliant - although it was a bit central, to react, dive, and catch it dead right on the line, it reminded me a lot of Zoff's save against Brazil in the 1982 World Cup. Also, the fact that he remained with Juve in Serie B during the scandal, in his prime for that matter, I think he deserves to be rewarded for that, so I really hope he and Juve can win the cup, fingers crossed! He probably also deserved the Ballon d'Or in 2006, although I think Cannavaro was also deserving (it's unfair to say it was ridiculous to give him the prize just because he was a defender - also, Baresi and Maldini also should have won it in the past). Pirlo also deserved to win it that year, and Ronaldinho and Henry were also brilliant that season, but I usually feel that a World Cup winner (or maybe a finalist if they have been outstanding, like Baggio in 94, Ronaldo in 98, even though neither of them won the Ballon d'Or those years!) should win it during a World Cup year. As good as Zidane was, I thought his World Cup performance that year was a little bit exaggerated and over-hyped by the media, as he didn't do much in the semi-final or the final, apart from scoring from two dubious penalties, and France had a brilliant team that year.

Best regards!

Messirulez (talk) 15:18, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

And yes, hopefully Conte can do well with Italy after the 2014 World Cup disappointment, although we seem to be lacking good and healthy strikers at the moment, as all the potential talents have either turned out to be flops or are injured which is very sad; to think that in the 90s we had players like Baggio, Zola, Mancini, Ravanelli, Vialli, Schillaci, Casiraghi, and Signori all competing for a spot (and that Sacchi and Maldini kept Baggio out of the team for a time), among others and later in the 2000s we had players like Inzaghi, Del Piero, Totti, Montella, Vieri, Del Vecchio, Gilardino etc., but old-fashioned coaches like Maldini and Trap who still played negatively...if only Zoff had been there in 1998, when we had such a good team, and had subsequently stayed on for 2002 and 2004. We have some promising young keepers and midfielders, but we are also currently lacking notable defenders that can replace Barzagli and Chiellini I think, so Serie A teams need to start developing their own stadia and investing in their youth systems - to think that in Sacchi's/Capello's Milan, Maldini, Baresi, Galli, Albertini, Costacurta, and Evani were all from the youth sector...and yeah, it would be nice to see Canada qualify for a World Cup; I don't see why football hasn't quite picked up, considering all the imigrants from Italy, Portugal, and the rest of the Americas, but I guess it is a cultural issue, as many of the best athletes end up playing Ice Hockey which is the national sport. Hopefully in a few years the team will improve though, and qualify for the World Cup; maybe Canada could even host it one day, which would definitely boost football in the country, although FIFA are too corrupt to ever consider doing that...we will see what happens to Blatter now! The talent is definitely there...Hargreaves and De Guzman were born and grew up in Canada after all, and they went on to play for England and the Netherlands! I also hope Giovinco can help TFC qualify for the MLS play-offs; he's always been a great talent, but very small, a bit inconsistent, and quite unlucky as he was often played out of position in my opinion, so I think it would be a good personal satisfaction for him, as he has great skills, he just needs to have more composure in front of goal. And yes, I saw that the Man City match was quite closely fought indeed!

Best, Messirulez (talk) 15:41, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, do not worry about the rambles, I love them! I too think Buffon is still top 3 goalkeeps in the world. As you said, his ability to organize, and know his role after many long years is certainly an amazing quality you cannot get from these younger goalies. And who knows, maybe Buffon will play in the 2018 World Cupat the age of 40 just like Zoff! I also love how Buffon is a very loyal and patriotic man. Watching the Italian national anthem sung by the players is nothing like the way Buffon belts it out! Even a few years back when I think it was PSG that wanted to buy him, Buffon said he would not leave Juventus or Serie A, I love that. And about the national team lacking the strikers we so desperately need is a shame. I know El Shaarway was injured for a while, but do you think Conte will call him up, because I think his style of play is really good. Also, with Balotelli, he is a whole other issue. Do you think he is done for the national team? Also in regards to Canada in soccer, I think it is more popular in Ontario and Quebec with all the Italian and European immigrants. I know I started loving soccer from my nonno. In other provinces like Manitoba and Saskatchewan for example, soccer is probably not as popular. It still needs to take off, but with the strong hockey influence it is hard. I personally like soccer a lot more than hockey. I know that Canada is putting out serious bids for the 2026 FIFA World Cup and hopefully can get to host it and bring the love of the game to this country since only making it in the 86 World Cup. Yeah, FIFA is very corrupt and hope a stop can be put to it for the beautiful game. Also, are you from Italy, or live in Italy? Cheers, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 17:28, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I am Italian. It would be nice if Canada were to host the World Cup. Hopefully hosting the Women's World Cup, Pan Am Games and Gold Cup this summer will be a stepping stone towards that; the 2007 under-20 world championship was also in Canada, if I'm not wrong? In all honesty, it would be a wise decision, I personally believe, because Canada are economically stable and they already have quite a few stadia built for football, and they are a lot nicer than most of the ones in Italy! Also, there is less of a risk of the tournament preparations being mismanaged and expenses being wasted, like what happened in Torino for the 2006 Winter Olympics; people initially took the metro for fun, because all it really did was take you to the former olympic centre! The only minor inconvenience of the tournament being hosted in Canada might be the sheer vastness of the country, and the different time zones, which would make travel arrangements a bit more complicated, but it was the same in USA 94, and that worked quite well, although they made a terrible mistake by having Italy's semi-final match in New Jersey when the final was in Pasadena, especially as Brazil's semi-final game was played before Italy's, in Pasadena. That was a bit ridiculous, and I think it further hindered Italy's performance in the final, although with the heat and humidity, both teams weren't able to play (well, under Sacchi, Italy hadn't really been able to play well all tournament, only in flashes, and while that might not have been the most exciting Brazil squad, they were still a very good team who were very solid at the back and in midfield, and they had Romario and Bebeto up-front who were brilliant), and Baggio wasn't fit, although he had been injured all tournament. It still annoys me that Baggio wasn't awarded the Golden Ball that tournament and that year's Ballon d'Or considering his heroics in dragging Italy to the final with his spectacular goals (whereas it was awarded to Zidane in 2006, despite his behaviour in the final). Romario played well in the group stage, unlike Baggio (or Italy rather, as he was unfairly criticised) but Brazil were a stronger team that played for the attacking duo, whereas Baggio was wout of position, and unsupported. It is so cruel that he of all people had to miss the final penalty in the shoot-out, and with his outstanding penalty kick record! What I still don't understand is how the ball went so high; I've never seen Baggio place the ball high on penalties, he always put it low and would wait for the keeper to make a move, which is what makes that miss so shocking! Messirulez (talk) 15:16, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez Yeah, which is why people may think it was fixed because of Baggio's uncharacteristic shot. Especially the 2002 FIFA World Cup, which I honestly believe South Korea and FIFA fixed with the matches against Italy and Spain. That "offside" goal that Italy scored in extra time, and that red card to Totti was bullsh*t. The reff, Byron Moreno was absolutely atrocious. Too bad Blatter did nto resign today... we needed new reign for FIFA. It shows that Sepp really does not care about the beautiful game. And yes, Canada's stadiums are getting better, especially with TFC's expansion of 10 000 seats to 30 000 seats this year. Don't you need a minimum amount of seats for a World Cup? Anyway, all I can say right now is fino alla fine, and forza Juve! Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 17:01, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, some Brazilian fans have actually told me they thought he missed on purpose because they were so shocked that a player of his calibre would miss (also I think at the time he had only missed maybe 2-4 penalties in his career, something ridiculous like that), but that definitely wasn't the case as he was always an honest player who loved playing for Italy above all, and you could see how distraught he was, and how it affected him for the rest of his career. At that level a little flinch when taking such a long run-up, can make a big difference. The Brazilian media rather poetically stated that Senna's hand guided the penalty off-target, and certainly that was an emotional victory for the Brazilians at the time because of his tragic death. Every specialist has missed important penalties, even Maradona, Del Piero, Cristiano Ronaldo, Beckham, so I find it unfair that given his performance in the tournament and his talent, he is predominantly remembered and ridiculed for that miss. It's horrible how Sacchi left Baggio out of the Italy squad after that miss, when he was still Italy's best player by far. His contribution to the double in 1995 is extremely underrated; I remember watching the title match against Parma, who were one of the best teams in the world at the time, and he was unbeatable, he set up three of the four goals with incredible passes. Yes he was injured most of the season, but when he actually played, he was always either scoring or setting up goals. Even during the first season with Milan, he was unfairly criticised. He wasn't quite as good as he had been at Juve, but he was playing for his team, and he didn't score much, but he set up a lot of goals, and Capello often took him off after less than an hour on the pitch - I'm sure we would have gotten through the group stage at Euro 96 if he had been there; we already barely qualified without him through the playoff.

I don't want to shout conspiracy whenever we lose, as we italians are often known for doing that, and I would like to try and be diplomatic, but Italy had been unlucky the entire 2002 tournament with officials, as prior to that match we had had 4 goals disallowed, which would have meant that we would have topped out group with 9 points, and we would have played the USA, so something odd seemed to be going on, as the offside decisions were terrible. Moreno was certainly terrible...there were so many unsanctioned kicks and elbows during the match (even a few on our part), and the penalty awarded in the first half was also ridiculous. I am still not entirely sure if the Totti incident was actually a penalty as he gets a bit of Totti's leg but a bit of the ball first, but it definitely was not a dive, and the ref was also on the other side of the pitch when he blew his whistle, so I have no idea what he saw from there. Unfortunately we also must be held responsible for the stupid mistakes we made on the goals against Croatia (Materazzi) and agaisnt Korea, right at the end of regulation time Panucci of all pepople fumbled the clearance and deflected the equalising shot which gave Buffon no chance. And I still can't believe that Maldini, the greatest defender I've ever seen, mis-timed his header against a small player like Ahn to score the golden goal. And yes, Blatter should have stepped down, he is dreadful, anyone else in his position would have done the same in this situation. Not sure about the seating capcity at the World Cup. And yes, forza Juve, fingers crossed for the Champions League final, and I hope Barzagli will be fit! Messirulez (talk) 15:52, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, really good talking with you, very interesting and great views and points. Obviously you know your stuff and I still need a lot of experience myself, as you have clearly been around the game for a while! I really want to see Italian football brought back onto the map with a Champions League Final win, as Italian football is suffering right now in comparison to other leagues. My family and I had to buy RAI Italia and Mediaset Italia channels for extra on our TV bill just so we could watch the Juve games! Unlike BPL which is always played on TSN or Sportsnet for free. Serie A is starting to become more of a feeder league rather than a main league where top footballers play, sadly. Even the CL game with Juve and Dortmund, they would rather play Bayern and Shaktar for example on the main channels... Also I know as Italians, we are usually criticized for coming up with a lot of excuses for why we did not win, or for diving, which is probably why Moreno called that against Totti because he probably thought that it would be an easy call to get away with since "many" Italian players are known to dive. But I mean, we do have a right to do so when in situations like getting elbowed and kicked in the 2002 World Cup for example, or even most recently with the Suarezbite on Chiellini. When I was watching that game I was furious that the referee did not see that even when Chiellini showed him the bite marks in his shoulder! But Italy were down without Marchisio for almost the whole second half, and then right after that bite Uruguay scores! It will be interesting to see Chiellini and Evera face off against Suarez again! But have you noticed the FIFA World Rankings recently? I am starting to become skeptical of how these are calculated becuase how do you get teams like Romania and Switzerland ranked higher than Italy or England? Even Beligium in third place, are you serious? I know their team have gotten a lot better recently, but third place really, above Brazil, Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Netherlands? Anyways always great talking to a fellow Juve fan like you said before. Nothing better than reminiscing about the past. Best regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 21:42, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, unfortunately, the stadia in Italy are very poor, and unsafe, and most are not club owned; there are a lot of problems with violence, discrimination, and racism, even what happened during the last Turin derby, for example, it's horrible that the Juventus fans threw a letterbomb into the Torino section. Many club fans are fanatical hooligans and they take rivalries to a ridiculous level. Football should never be violent, and defeat should be accepted in a sportsmanlike manner, regardless of errors; after all, it's a game, and it should be fun above all. Because of this, there aren't many children at the matches in Italy, and attendances are low, unlike in North America and England, where sporting events are really catered to families, which is really nice, and makes for a much nicer atmosphere I believe. Furthermore, the coverage of the Serie A games is not very good in terms of audio-visiual quality (although some of the pundits are very good still), and the league and the teams have bene losing money and are in debt due to all the scandals and mismanagement, hence more players going to play in Spain and England, and Serie A is decreasing in quality. But what is ridiculous is that even in the 90s when Serie A was by far the top league, it was marketed poorly; whenever I was abroad, they were showing Premier League matches usually, even though the Premier League back then was nowhere near what it is today in terms of quality, and there were far fewer foreign footballing stars in their prime playing in England, so they were very intelligent with marketing the League, and making the matches family friendly.

To be honest, it annoys me when fans label the Italians as divers; it is true that historically, many Italian players would dive, but now, aside from a few players like SuperMario and Cassano, I don't think we have many who are notorious for doing so anymore. Also, if you think about when Serie A players like Baggio, Maradona, and Ronaldo in the late 80s and 90s would often be kicked by defenders (and those challenges went unpenalised) when trying to dribble through the whole team, and they would still keep on going...today there are many players who just flop with the minimal contact (I won't mention any names)! And yes, the bite at the 2014 World Cup was upsetting because the corner led to the goal, and the ref was still allowed to ref the semi-final; this is ridiculous. What I found even more absurd was Marchisio's red card, however, as it was so early in the game, and really affected the match. To me, he lost balance because he was nudged slightly by the oncoming opponent when he was turning, and as a result, he kncoked him with his foot, but it was not a strong knock at all, therefore it wasn't dangerous despite the high foot; I think even a yellow would have been harsh. Marchisio is a tenacious player, however, he isn't like De Rossi or Gattuso, who WILL lose their heads and commit dangerous, aggressive challenges at times. With regards to the FIFA ranking, Italy are notorious for not taking friendly matches seriously because they serve to try out new formations, plays, tactics, and give players experience, and create a more choesive team unit. Players are also concerned about picking up injuries, so I think that is why our ranking is usually so low, because those play too much of a role in the ranking in my opinion. I personally felt that it was ridiculous that we weren't assigned to the top 8 for the World Cup, however, when we had done well in the past two tournaments, in the Euro qualifying, and we were one of the first European teams to qualify - just because we didn't win one of our last two matches - it shouldn't matter if we qualified early, but then again...we should have won one of those two matches, and we would have probably ended up in a simpler group; that is one of our biggest defects as a team, we are notoriously slow starters, and we often do the bare minimum to qualify haha. We always say in Italy that it's because we Italians, in the traditional Italian Romantic Era fashion, enjoy the feeling of a struggle, and the satisfaction of overcoming it, ahaha, although it doesn't always turn out that way! Best regards! Messirulez (talk) 03:38, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, yes it is very true that Italy have a tendency always to do the bare minimum. I honestly think Italy do better against stronger teams because it gives them the mindset to work hard since they are a hard opponent. When the face "easy" teams I get worried because I konw they usually like to coast through it and think they do not need to work as hard, which frustrates me. Like in the 2010 World Cup everyone thought that Italy would finish top of their group because they seriously had the easiest group in the tournament with Paraguay, New Zealand and Slovakia! I don't know what happened that World Cup, maybe with the injury to Buffon and Marchetti starting with no experience... It was sad to see some 2006 legends like Zambrotta and Cannavaro retire in such a manner. Sometimes it is best to leave while you are on top! Even in the 2014 World Cup with Costa Rica, who would have thought they would play so great! Navas especially kept out some great Italian chances with insane saves! And now with 2016 Euro Qualifications, we barely squeaked by against Malta and Azerbaijan! It goes to show that as a team, you must give it 150% no matter who the opponent is. Sometimes it is good to be the underdogs! Juve were against Real Madrid and look what happened! Hopefully the underdogs will prevail next Saturday! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 14:49, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I agree we often do better as underdogs (1982, 2000, 2006, 2012) than as favourites - in the 2010 World Cup, to me, Lippi didn't succeed in making a coherent team unit, and we didn't have the best team; most players had simply had a bad season, and unfortunately Thiago Motta was not yet eligible to play for Italy at the time (I still don't know why Dunga left him off the Brazil team, especially as he reminds me a lot of how Dunga played! Ronaldinho probably should have been there as well. Other weird absences were Zanetti and Cambiasso for Argentina; if they had been on the team, Messi wouldn't have had to play in such a deep, creative role, and they might have done better, although it would have still been difficult to beat Germany...). I know Cassano has been a constant pain and a disappointment because, desptie his talent, he doesn't work hard, he is inconsistent, he has a bad character, and he is extremely volatile, so having him on the pitch is a risk as he can be sent off, but I think he should have started with Pazzini that year, and I also think having Miccoli and Rossi would have helped up front on the bench. Cannavaro didn't have a great season, sadly, and he wasn't at his best, and we relied too much on the old guard, when sadly players like Gattuso, Camoranesi, and Iaquinta (despite scoring the penalty) were past their best (Zambrotta, surprisingly, was actually quite good, however). Pirlo was also injured the first two games, and I think Buffon's injury also affected the team, as Marchetti also made some mistakes. Montolivo and De Rossi were a disappointment, and Marchisio was played out of position, and also, some players just seemed to lack experience (Maggio, Criscito, Bonucci) - I think Quagliarella deserved more playing time as well, considering he was actually quite effective. We were also unfortunate with the disallowed goals in the final match, which would have sent us through, but we didn't deserve it to be honest. In 2014...I don't know, I thought we started off well and were one of the better sides from the first match at least, especially given it was against England. Against Costa Rica, Chiellini made a terrible error which then eventually led to the goal, and the striker was unmarked, then they defended behind the ball and gave us little space. Balotelli, I can't believe he missed the lob in the opening. We seemed exhausted, they were getting to every ball before us, and we played badly. There, Prandelli made the right changes, also by switching to a more offensive 4-2-3-1, but Cerci, Insigne, and Immobile (I think he came on as well) were all dreadful - I think Candreva should have been left on. Hopefully we pick it up for qualifying so we get a good draw for the Euros. And fingers crossed for the UCL final once again - it won't be easy against this Barca side, but at least Juve are underdogs! Messirulez (talk) 16:01, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, Sepp resigned!!! I don't know why he would wait until a few days after he got re-elected but whatever, he is gone! I hope this will be a new chapter for football and return it to the beautiful game rather than a game surrounded by corruption scandals. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 00:17, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, heard some really bad news that Chiellini is injured and will be missing the CL final... :( Big blow for Juve, I hope Barzagli will be able to perform! Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 18:47, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know what I did, but I accidentally deleted all of this! Someone reverted it though, so all is well haha.

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