User talk:Thecapital15

Welcome!

Hello, Thecapital15, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as Zunera, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may not be retained.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Teahouse, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{help me}} on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! JHCaufield - talk - 17:44, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Zunera

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You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Zunera, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. JHCaufield - talk - 17:44, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

May 2017

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. We welcome and appreciate your contributions, but it appears you have written or added to an article about yourself, at Zunera. Creating an autobiography is strongly discouraged – see our guideline on writing autobiographies. If you create such an article, it may be deleted. If what you have done in life is genuinely notable and can be verified according to our policy for articles about living people, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later (see Wikipedians with articles). If you wish to add to an existing article about yourself, please propose the changes on its talk page. Please understand that this is an encyclopedia and not a personal web space or social networking site. If your article has already been deleted, please see: Why was my page deleted?, and if you feel the deletion was an error, please discuss it with the deleting administrator. Thank you. Saqib (talk) 06:48, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Zunera for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Zunera is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zunera until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Saqib (talk) 15:46, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Stephen! ^Coming... 06:42, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Zunera

Hi Thecapital15 --

Regarding your message about Zunera -- I regret that you're finding the experience of editing wikipedia "brutal". You're not alone in finding it difficult. I hope you'll keep at it anyway because there really are reasonable people at work here in a good cause. Please understand that many many new articles are added every day. Many of these are self-promotional, or mischievous, or simply wrong. Specifically about Zunera here's what led me to my opinion.

• the real claim to "notability" (does she belong in an encyclopedia?) is the claimed title of "Mrs Pakistan International USA" in 2014. That's not exactly true. According to this page Ms. Zunera won "Mrs. Pakistan International" as one of SIXTY Mrs. Intl titles awarded in 2014. The winner of that cadre, "Mrs. International" for that year, actually went to Mrs. Great Plains International. This by itself is not enough to get you into an encyclopedia.
• the page seems promotional in tone. Your original version was quite promotional in tone. Google results, and her CNN appearances, and the adoption of a mononym, suggest a coordinated effort to get her into the public eye. Which is fine. I mean, good for her. But you understand this raises red flags.

I hope this helps. If, as you've mentioned elsewhere, you intend to develop the biographies of other notable Pakistanis such as Nighat Dad then I wish you luck. --Lockley (talk) 17:04, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Hey @Lockley: thank you very much for taking out time & responding. I really appreciate it. Your insight is very valuable & helped me a great deal in understanding, why I am dealing with this situation. First of all, I want to say this that if anything at any place remotely sounds promotional it is only because of my ignorance on what kind of verbiage I am supposed to use on this platform. You should see the first draft of this article :) it was uber promotional according to Wikipedia standards because I thought in order to prove someone's notability I have to highlight those aspects of the subject's life which are their achievements & apparently I didn't use enough citations to justify what I wrote BUT I didn't make things up it was all those things that I found online while reading about her.

About using only her first name in the title, honestly again, because of my ignorance, I didn't know what kind of title I am supposed to use. I try changing it even once you and another editor mentioned it but I just didn't know how. So can you kindly please just go ahead and change the Title to full name? Again, about "Mrs Pakistan International USA" at different websites the title was mentioned differently. But since at the official website, it says "Mrs Pakistan International" SO I will just change it to that I hope that will address your concern. Yes you're right maybe on a global canvas Mrs. Pakistan International or Mrs. India International aren't very important or noteworthy, but for the 2 Billion population of the people of South Asia it is.

Also, CNN etc are just things that I kept bumping into while doing my research & realized that this can help the case in proving notability. Like, I am still very confused, if I mentioned media appearances, interviews & her online presence it's considered promotion but if I don't highlight those aspects then I am told that there is no notability. I read on the page where they were explaining wiki's notability criteria it said that the citation shouldn't be from Facebook, Twitter, Youtube or Blog etc. But I was quoting links from mainstream media websites of two different countries US & Pakistan & still it was considered promtion. SO honestly I am super uber confused as to what I should do.

Like for instance I am sitting on these two links Zunera's Covering NYFW on ABC News & Zunera Covering Fashion Trends on ABC News but I am literally scared as to whether I should use them or not, or it will again be considered promotional but in order to prove her fashion notability I need to add these. So can you advise me on how to incorporate this information or something similar? Again thank you very much for your insight I really appreciate it. Thecapital15 (talk) 19:33, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Those sources help support WP:N. You might be better editing existing articles for a while before trying to create new ones. Getting a new article through is tough. You can learn what works and what does not work by improving existing articles. Legacypac (talk) 02:47, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Be Bold!

Hi! I read your reply above, and I thought I would comment. Rather than butting in on your conversation with Lockley, I thought it best to comment in a separate post.

If ever you are worried about using a link or not, or whether or not you should make a change, remember that one of the 5 Pillars of Wikipedia is Ignore All Rules. That doesn't mean you have a license to do anything you wish, but simply that if you think that ignoring a bit of policy will mean that you can improve an article and so improve Wikipedia, then go ahead and make the change. Having said that... if what you add is to a biography of a living person and your addition is not referenced in any way, the chances are it will get reverted, especially if it is negative in tone.

If someone does revert your edits, then what you should do is start a discussion with them and find out why it was reverted. If you disagree, explain your reasoning, and hopefully you can come to an agreement as to what should be put instead. What you shouldn't do is get into an edit war, as that way can lead to blocking for violating the Three Revert Rule. From the edits you have been doing so far, I don't see that as a problem you are likely to face, as you are very upfront with your edits and reasoning (so well done there!).

One final thing - when you tag someone in a discussion, it is a good idea to double check that their username matches their signature. My signature says Stephen (as that is my name), but my username is Sjb72. When you attempted to tag me, you tagged User:Stephen instead by mistake. Stephen! ^Coming... 16:31, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Learning to edit

I just saw some stats that show 80% of articles by new users get deleted, while 75% of articles started by more experienced users do not get deleted. Spend some time working on improving Pakistani (or whatever you like) biographies to get a feel for what a properly sourced, properly constructed page looks like. Some ideas:

• Category:AfC_postponed_G13 [1] over 400 draft articles that reviewers find worth keeping but need improvements before moving to mainspace. Generally there are good notes saying what is needed on each page.
• Category:All unreferenced BLPs [2] go find and add sources to these pages.
• Category:All articles with too few wikilinks [3]
• Category:All articles with unsourced statements articles with unsourced statements a HUGE category

Look for stuff you enjoy reading about and work on that. Good luck. Legacypac (talk) 07:26, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

@Legacypac:Thank you very much for your insights. Woah! 80% :) no wonder my article got deleted. I have started my editing journey. I looked through Pakistani Noticeboard & edited all those articles that I thought I could contribute to. So I have tasted the blood :) it felt very good! Thank you for dropping links where I can start from. I will ping you whenever I need help.Thecapital15 (talk) 08:06, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

No problem. I see my links did not work. fixed them for you. Working on pages where you don't have so much invested in the topic helps you learn too. Here are the stats [4] with non-autoconfirmed being new editors. Legacypac (talk) 08:14, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Please use indents

Hi!

I did put this information in the the discussion we've been having on my talk page, but I'm not sure you've seen it as you haven't been indenting any of your posts on my page. It is making the thread tricky to follow, so please can you make sure you indent? Here is the information I posted copied across (in italics):

Could I possibly tell you about indenting in talk space? It makes things so much easier to follow, particularly when you get a lot of people talking on one topic. To distinguish them, we use indents, also known as colons, at the start of each paragraph. If you click edit on this page, you will see one colon at the start of this paragraph...

...two on this one...

...and back to one for this paragraph. It isn't recommended for one user to use different numbers of colons in one single post, but I'm doing it here for demonstration. You can find a more complete set of instructions at WP:INDENT.

You should also be aware that even if it is just two people conversing in a single discussion that it is the norm to keep on indenting, rather than one person using one colon and the other none. If you have any questions, please ask. Stephen! ^Coming... 11:20, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Hey @Sjb72:,

Sorry I didn't know I HAD to use it. I thought if one person use it and the other don't even that will work. I have made amendments to my messages on your talk page, since you used a single indent, I used 2 indents. I hope I did the right thing.Thecapital15 (talk) 12:40, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

It's not a case of assign one set of colons to one, and one to another, it's indented one more each time. It's more important in places where multiple people are in a discussion (such as a deletion discussion), especially in RFA, where the indents are crucial to allow the following of the vote. It's not as important in on a talk page between two people, but because people are used to seeing a progressively indented conversation, when it doesn't happen it is harder to follow. I've gone through your amended indentations on the talk page and corrected so it is progressively indented. Hopefully you can see how much easier it is to follow now. Stephen! ^Coming... 16:33, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Oh i see it now :) thank you very much! I will be careful next time.Thecapital15 (talk) 17:10, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

At some point in a long discussion the indents get too deep, so someone will go back to no indents, then 1 indent and so on. Legacypac (talk) 06:44, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

oh yeah :) @Legacypac: I did have this question, wondering what happens when there are too many indents but didn't want to clog @Sjb72: inbox :)Thecapital15 (talk) 06:49, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

If you are in Karachi or whenever you visit Karachi (in case you do not live in Karachi), I would like to meet with you. Please do send me a message on my cell phone # 03012909549. We share a passion. Let's meet and discuss sometime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basithq (talk • contribs) 10:19, 21 June 2017 (UTC)