User talk:Rockchalk717/Archives/2016/July

NFL records listing

Regarding the edit on Jamaal Charles, it's not really consensus as much as I took how they're listed at List of National Football League records (individual) and replaced the word "most" or "highest" with the value. "Most yards per carry, career: 5.5" would add an unnecessary word, I think. Just though I'd let you know my rationale. Lizard (talk) 01:50, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: I saw where you got it from. I just didn't realize they finally made a player page format page. It's long overdue.--Rockchalk717 02:06, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Yeh, the player pages format is a work in progress. Sadly input has been a little lower than I'd hoped. My initial proposal got exactly one reply on WT:NFL (which basically said "yeh sure looks good"), so I assumed WP:SILENCE and went ahead with it. But I've been rethinking a lot of stuff on it now, such as if awards like Byron "Whizzer" White NFL Man of the Year Award are notable enough to include in the infobox, and how to order the highlights. Lizard (talk) 02:17, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

I would participated had I of known it was happening. The Whizzer White award has kinda fallen into the background with the Walter Payton Man of the Year award being as big as what it is now. Really about any award is honestly notable outside of these odds and ins awards by about every sports website imaginable and all-pro teams. The key challenge on infoboxes is battling IP addresses and inexperienced editors when it comes to adding things that aren't really notable. I did look over the format page and it looked good.--Rockchalk717 02:38, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Wichita State baseball

Absolutely and unequivocally incorrect. Vacated wins are NEVER counted, as seen in official Wichita State Fact book which is cited. The specific information you are looking for is on page 68. All other teams with similar issues also show official records as different than on field results.

See also: List of USC Trojans football seasons and List_of_Michigan_Wolverines_men's_basketball_seasons

Both show both original and official records in some form or fashion. In addition, your updates are not correct as the NCAA did NOT vacate all WSU wins in 2012. I do not want to get in a protracted argument with a fellow Jayhawk, but I stand by the article as originally written. It is the most clear and concise and, most importantly, informative and accurate and is closer to how other major pages are done on wikipedia as shown above. I haven't found any similar situations with baseball teams to get an idea on how that is done, but I am willing to have a conversation about that. But your additions are incorrect; I can't let them stay. Have a good night. Please know I'm not trying to start a war over this or anything - as you can see there hasn't been a lot of activity on the page. If you have any questions, please let me know and we can see if we can come to a consensus.--Link006 (talk) 05:02, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

@Link006: Actually they did vacate all wins from 2012 and 2013. Per ESPN source I sourced that you reverted and removed "the NCAA decided Wichita State's storied program would need to vacate wins from the 2012 and 2013 seasons" meaning ALL wins were vacated. Also, by using it this way, it allows you see to what their record was initially prior to wins being vacated plus allow you to see they were vacated. I also don't get why you keep reverting, the record section still lists the original record and you vacated wins note in the post-season results which is not what that section is for. You're reverting edits when really the issue you have is with what I put in the edit summary. In season result lists nothing other then the post season results should be included. In the examples you gave there is a footnote indicating the wins were vacated, which is ALL I ADDED, its just presented differently. What you're issue appears to be is that I removed the note about wins being vacated from the post-season results which is not what the section of the table is for--Rockchalk717 05:55, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

The ESPN source you cite is, respectfully, incorrect. It is incongruent with all other writings on the topic, including the official release from Wichita State University on the matter which does not say all wins are vacated. Your ESPN source is also contradicted by The Wichita Eagle's reporting of the case. I think the ESPN author likely confused the fact that WSU had to give back all victories in which the players who received benefits participated in... but they didn't play in every game Wichita State won. However, you do make a good point that the last column is specifically designated as POSTSEASON results, not season notes or anything like that which is a totally fair criticism. I think it looks better as is, but unfortunately that's not what the deciding factor is on wikipedia most of the time. I will change it to make it more like the USC page unless you think changing the column to something like Postseason Results/Season Notes would be better. I will wait until I hear from you before doing anything. --Link006 (talk) 18:03, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

@Link006: What we can do is use one the sources you provided, I would like to see is some sort of note identifying what their record was prior to the wins being vacated. So lets put the footnotes like I had them identifying "Originally a _____ record. ___ Wins vacated by the NCAA" then in the table the wins total after the vacated wins.--Rockchalk717 18:23, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

So do you want the original "on the field" results to be in the table and have the "official" record (after wins vacated) in footnote or the other way around? I feel like the "on the field" results are more demonstrative of the team when looking through the history of the program and should be in the column with the official record below, but I haven't found a consistent way that it is done. Those two examples I showed you (Michigan basketball and USC football) are done totally different ways - Michigan lists both original and "sanction" records on its page while USC lists only the "sanction record". I do totally agree that the record before and after the vacation should be included. Let me know what you think on this subject.--Link006 (talk) 16:55, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

@Link006: List the record after the vacated wins in the table since that is what's official, then in the footnote say "Originally a _-_ record, _ wins vacated by the NCAA.--Rockchalk717 18:28, 8 July 2016 (UTC)