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The Signpost – Volume 11, Issue 12 – 25 March 2015

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Talk back

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Celebrate

Clownscloudsblahblah Yoor Know Phool
Have a humorous day filled with lots of PHUN on this April Fools Day 2015. Any annoyance is purely coincidental.   Bfpage |leave a message  10:21, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

PLEASE COMMENT

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wikipedia (7th nomination)... Hafspajen (talk) 22:25, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost, 1 April 2015

A article I just put up for AFD is not appearing on the AFD page

Here Effigy (album) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Effigy (album) don't know what is going on there! Wgolf (talk) 01:46, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks-oh and my humor afd for B didn't show up either. (which is on the April fools main page) Wgolf (talk) 01:51, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
All right... North America1000 02:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

You've got mail!

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Message added 08:50, 2 April 2015 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

-The Herald the joy of the LORDmy strength 08:50, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The discussion is about the topic Magneto (generator). Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! Biscuittin (talk) 23:34, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Deletion

As per WP:CFORK, the article may meet certain requirements to be merged or redirect to Acharya N. G. Ranga Agricultural University. Not even single reference available for that page. It is just about a department faculty in a university. Where the university article exits. Kindly check if I'm wrong.--Vin09 (talk) 16:39, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Vin09: I wouldn't characterize Faculty of Home Science as a content fork of Acharya N. G. Ranga Agricultural University, because the latter article barely mentions the Faculty of Home Science. Furthermore, the Faculty article could be considered as a valid WP:SPINOFF, although the main university article is on the short side. A selective merge of the faculty article to the main university article could work out. If you want to nominate it for deletion again, just be sure to include a valid rationale for deletion. For examples, see WP:DEL-REASON. NORTH AMERICA1000 01:12, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Northamerica1000 I'm not for deletion, just I asked an advice to merge this. So, I will take a step ahead to merge this to main article. If anything wrong, please notify me.--Vin09 (talk) 06:39, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Today's articles for improvement

TAFI message sending TEST

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Today's articles for improvement

  • Hello Northamerica1000:
This week's voting for TAFI's upcoming weekly collaboration has begun at Week 18 of 2015. Thanks for participating!
Sent by User:Northamerica1000 using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:18, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Today's articles for improvement

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This week's article for improvement (week 14, 2015)

A man garbage picking through a skip (dumpster)
Hello, Northamerica1000.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Garbage picking

Previous selections: Antagonist • Dinner

Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
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Disambiguation link notification for April 6

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Federation of Thai Industries
added a link pointing to Enterprise

 Fixed. North America1000 17:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Grimsby Ice Factory
added a link pointing to Compressor

 Fixed. North America1000 17:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

James Melvin Washington
added a link pointing to Minister

 Fixed. North America1000 17:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

North Hennepin Community College
added a link pointing to Financial aid

 Fixed. North America1000 17:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Organically Grown (Delaware company)
added a link pointing to Organic

 Fixed. North America1000 17:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

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Tech News: 2015-15

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

Problems

  • The import tool was broken for a few days. Imports didn't add log entries. You can delete and import pages again if necessary. [6]
  • Labs was broken several times this week. [7] [8] [9] [10]

Changes this week

  • The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since April 1. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from April 7. It will be on all Wikipedias from April 8 (calendar).
  • You can now add the same special characters with VisualEditor as with the wikitext editor. [11]
  • Many bugs around copy-paste in VisualEditor are now fixed. [12] [13]
  • You can now use basic tools of VisualEditor in the new talk tool. You can add links, bold and italics. You can also mention people. [14]

Meetings

  • You can join the next weekly meeting with the Editing team. During the meetings you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on April 8 at 18:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

  • You can again comment on how you want to see Wikidata edits in your watchlist on other wikis. [15]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

DYK for PizzaRev

— Coffee // have a cup // beans // 00:02, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Help

What is Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls. How to remove them or deal with those pages?--Vin09 (talk) 12:59, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

I've been working in this project. I asked about this -> https://tools.wmflabs.org/bambots/cwb/bycat/Andhra_Pradesh.html -> Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls.--Vin09 (talk) 05:09, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi Vin09: I glanced at the tools.wmflabs.org page before, but it's not loading right now (a regular occurrence for that site, for whatever reasons). To be honest, I'm not sure if I can help you. For example, I checked out some pages listed at Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls (e.g. 2007 NBA Playoffs), but the template placements were just fine. North America1000 04:35, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Today's articles for improvement - TEST

  • Hello Northamerica1000:
This week's voting for TAFI's upcoming weekly collaboration has begun at Week 19 of 2015. Thanks for participating!
Sent by User:Northamerica1000 using North America1000 11:53, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 April 2015

A pie for you!

Happy Easter! Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 17:02, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Scalhotrod: . North America1000 19:14, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Back at ya. We can always use more Peace (and pie) in the world... :) --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:28, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
pastel-colored beads
Scalhotrod: Not to mention more pastel colors. North America1000 19:30, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, quite! :) --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:42, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Today's articles for improvement

  • Hello Northamerica1000:
This week's voting for TAFI's upcoming weekly collaboration has begun at Week 18 of 2015. Thanks for participating!
Sent by User:Northamerica1000 using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:26, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Happy Easter

Happy Easter
Happy Easter.... Hafspajen (talk) 19:03, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Hafspajen: . North America1000 19:15, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Happy Easter!

File:Chocolate-Easter-Bunny.jpg
All the best! "Carry me down, carry me down; carry me down into the wiki!" (talk) 23:17, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Wilhelmina Will: . North America1000 19:16, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Muffin man

Muffin man
Hafspajen has giving you a Muffin man - Hafspajen (talk) 14:22, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
  • North, that muffin man is brilliant. We are going to nominate it as a FP. As soon a week passes, added it on some articles. Hafspajen (talk) 20:53, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
This : Paul Sandby - London Cries- A Muffin Man
  • The one you found, of course. the other one would never do. Hafspajen (talk) 21:24, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

(chorus)
Look out
Look out
The Candyman
Here he come
and he's gone again
Pretty lady ain't
got no friend
till the Candyman
come round again'

Not the same as ... sugar daddy? 21:51, 11 April 2015 (UTC)Hafspajen (talk)
Apples and oranges. North America1000 22:06, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Feel Like a Stranger (Fair use). North America1000 22:11, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Typical remark, food related as well. Very relaxing music that one ... Hafspajen (talk) 22:21, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Garcia's kickin' down there! Yep. North America1000 22:23, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Hand me my old guitar
Pass the whiskey round
Want you to tell everybody you meet
Ritual cuisine
the Candyman's in town Hafspajen (talk) 22:24, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Just don't hound me. (Fair use) North America1000 22:27, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Who, me? Hafspajen (talk) 22:42, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Is the muffin man similar to the candyman, or vice-versa? It don't matter...North America1000 22:45, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Today's articles for improvement

  • Hello Northamerica1000:
This week's voting for TAFI's upcoming weekly collaboration has begun at Week 19 of 2015. Thanks for participating!
Sent by User:Northamerica1000 on 12:00, 12 April 2015 (UTC) using Mass message sender.

Disambiguation link notification for April 13

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

List of juices
added a link pointing to Honeydew
 Fixed. North America1000 17:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
List of plum dishes
added a link pointing to Rock sugar
 Fixed. North America1000 17:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

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Tech News: 2015-16

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

Problems

  • Some wikis had issues on Wednesday. [19] [20]

Changes this week

  • The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since April 8. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from April 14. It will be on all Wikipedias from April 15 (calendar).
  • Developers will start to rename 1.5 million accounts on Wednesday. After that all accounts will be unique and will work on all wikis. [21] [22]
  • All users can now test link previews ("Hovercards") on several Wikipedias. [23]

Meetings

  • You can join the next weekly meeting with the Editing team. During the meetings you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on April 15 at 18:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

16:40, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Some stuffed mushrooms

Raw stuffed mushrooms
Raw stuffed mushrooms for you Hafspajen (talk) 07:03, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Only a cuisine-enthusiast would have thought about THAT. Hafspajen (talk) 07:56, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Sweets for the sweet

Some Tanghulu for you
Just because you are sweet. Thank you for your thanks. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:08, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Thank you for thanking me for when I thanked you! North America1000 14:11, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 08 April 2015

DYK advice

Hi there. Thanks for this. However, I'd like to propose a very slight tweak to the wording of the hook, so that instead it reads:

There's just one additional word ('design'), for clarity. Should I make this suggestion at Template:Did you know nominations/The Hungry Saw, or just amend the hook, or propose an alt hook, or do something else? I'm a bit of a DYK novice, and I don't want to mess anything up. Cheers! — sparklism hey! 16:36, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Sparklism: The modification is fine. To keep things on the up-and-up, please add an ALT1 of the above, which I will approve. North America1000 16:39, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm not sure how to add the ALT1 hook now though, since the template has changed. Sorry for being useless - how exactly do I add the ALT hook? Thanks — sparklism hey! 17:21, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Sparklism You can just copy/paste this below, verbatim. North America1000 19:21, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Ha! I just went ahead and did it anyway, this minute. Thanks again! — sparklism hey! 19:24, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Done deal. I just approved ALT1 there. Cheers, North America1000 19:25, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Vamanrao Deshpande

Since you have now put in as much research-time on the subject as any of the AFD particpants: [24] and [25] are simply the publisher's ads printed on the back-cover of other titles from the same publisher, and so don't really count as independent sources. That's just fyi. I do believe the subject is notable as a scholar/author since his work is amply referenced by others writing in the area, and there is at least one glowing scholarly review. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 12:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Abecedare – Yes, I noticed the likelihood of that about the two book sources you posted above. Upon further investigation, I have addended the discussion to point this out, to avoid any potential for misunderstandings. Also, thanks for your recent improvements to the article that I just noticed. North America1000 13:17, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Ways to improve List of re-established companies

Hi, I'm National Names 2000. Northamerica1000, thanks for creating List of re-established companies!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Need Source

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. National Names 2000 (talk) 04:04, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Jelly_cream_pie

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jelly_cream_pies&redirect=no

This was redirected to List of pies, but it's not even on the list. Isn't Jelly cream pie notable enough? Hafspajen (talk) 06:23, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

I remember working on that article in 2008. Hafspajen (talk) 06:25, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Looks like it was deleted, but no discussion . Hafspajen (talk) 06:31, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Hafspajen: May not be notable enough for a separate article. Recipes date back for over a century (e.g. [26] 1898, [27], 1904), but sources aren't providing much in terms of significant coverage (e.g. [28], [29]. North America1000 06:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

I understood that it is a very dangerous field, editing food articles ...only the most brave ever dare ... Hafspajen (talk) 08:41, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Hafspajen: You shouldn't feel that way just because you had an unpleasant experience (with other user(s)) regarding one food-related article. As I've stated before, Wikipedia seems to lack editors that update food- and drink-related articles regularly. Just my 2¢. Cheerio, North America1000 13:23, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

List of villages

Hi. I don't really see the point in creating something like List of villages in China and only adding a couple when there's over a million. I did create List of populated places in Martinique, List of populated places in Tibet etc a while back. What we really need is a full list of world settlements on here by country and we'd need a bot to do it. I created Template:World populated places. They should all be blue linked with full lists.. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:22, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Dr. Blofeld: The article was created per entries at the category. I feel that such articles are beneficial and improve Wikipedia, for several reasons:
  • They provide a new article that was previously nonexistent, which provides a starting point for people searching for such information. I feel this is much, much better than having nothing in main namespace.
  • They can be expanded with images and descriptions, unlike categories
  • They prevent existing articles from being perma-orphaned
  • They prevent new articles from being perma-orphaned (e.g. such as these I just created: Chowara, Ramu (village))
Thoughts? North America1000 17:43, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
  1. Articles should be categorized by division like Category:Populated places in Bangladesh by division. I worked hard a while back to reduce the mess with Village categories by country and try to make consistent. I'd rather you created List of populated places in rather than villages as a start to combine all settlements.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:07, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
I appreciate your points, which provide more good ideas. One matter, though, is that there is significant precedent for "List of villages..." articles. For examples, Wikipedia has many articles with the phrase "List of villages" in their title (see this link). This equates to hundreds a significant number of users performing thousands of edits creating and expanding these types of articles. North America1000 19:22, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Mayo Kaan

Hi. Just noticed your decision to close out the Kaan AFD as "no consensus". With all due respect, after having been relisted at least twice, the fact that no one could be bothered to express an opinion should not, IMO, result in a "no consensus" decision but rather in a quick deletion with prejudice. I have several AFDs on which, for some bizarre reason, no one is commenting. Are they all going to be closed as "no consensus"?

This indifference indicates a lack of concern as to the fate of the article(s) rather than any lack of consensus. There is no lack of consensus among editors voting on this AFD (Kaan) -- the one editor who voted (me), voted for its deletion. Yours, Quis separabit? 12:45, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

  • While you're entitled to your opinion, With absolutely no contributors to the discussion, the discussion fully qualified for a no consensus closure. Please note the following on the Wikipedia:Deletion process deletion guideline page:
  • Section Keep and Delete – "a no consensus outcome reflects the lack of a rough consensus for any one particular action"
Feel free to re-nominate the article for deletion if you'd like, as it was closed with no prejudice against speedy renomination.
Above and beyond this matter, my own research (after receiving this message here) qualifies that the subject actually meets WP:BASIC. Source examples include: [30], [31], [32], [33]. North America1000 14:10, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
Well thanks for the last part; if you feel WP:BASIC has been met then I don't have to renominate. Thanks. Yours, Quis separabit? 14:15, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - I'm not defending the article in any way, but the last time, actually the only time, I saw "default to delete" used to delete a Bio article (granted it was a BLP), it resulted in a reversal of the Admins decision and the restoration of the article. That said, this article seems pretty weak. I just did some tweaks and tagged it with {{relevance}}. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:39, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Filinvest Development Corporation

— Coffee // have a cup // beans // 00:02, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

TAFI

Hi, I'm not receiving any pings, and if I don't receive any pings I won't remember to participate. GiantSnowman 17:13, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi GiantSnowman: It seems that the present ping system using the TAFI ping lists is not functioning. Feel free to post any suggestions here regarding the matter, and I plan on working on this, either by fixing how it works, or perhaps using a different notification system, such as messaging project members directly on their user talk pages. North America1000 17:20, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
N.b. below is the message I sent to a bunch of members to get the ball rolling (using {{subst:TAFI ping}}, sent with a header2 header). North America1000 17:28, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Today's articles for improvement
  • Hello Northamerica1000:
Please consider participating in this week's vote for TAFI's upcoming Week 17 collaboration. Last week's voting did not receive many participants. Thanks for your consideration.
N.b. The talk page messaging has encouraged response at WT:TAFI, and it appears that the present TAFI ping system is not working. I plan on creating a list from the project's list of members, from which weekly notifications can be sent using mass messaging. North America1000 17:59, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

One idea comes to mind here. If you check my recent edit history here and at wikisource, you'll probably see that I have been by and large more active there than here. Possibly that isn't for the best for the encyclopedia, but it does allow me to generate some PD encyclopedic articles which can be used here. Maybe one way to get the TAFI nominations up to a reasonable quality might be to choose one which clearly has a substantial article in one of the reference sources over at wikisource, and, maybe, ask one of the editors there, maybe me, to proofread it there so that it could be imported here? John Carter (talk) 17:23, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi John Carter: Interesting ideas. I'm going to check things out, research and consider matters prior to responding here about these notions (in a hurried manner) right away. Feel free to provide more input anytime. North America1000 17:37, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
John Carter: I may actually not get around to pursuing your ideas above, as Wikipedia keeps me busy enough. Figured I'd let you know. I checked out your Wikisource contributions, though. Nice work there. Do you use a scanner and text reader to create the text (e.g. for [34])? North America1000 13:28, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
No, just download the plain text and .pdf and prepare them on the computer before adding them to the site. And I have several others which I am still preparing. I can try to get at least at least a few of the old PD sources directly relevant to the lower grade 1.0 articles prepared in the short term, though. That might make it a bit easier to nominate and maybe improve them. And I may well myself check some of the pd/CC encyclopedias at List of Internet encyclopedias and see if they have any specific articles of significant quality and length which could have their corresponding articles here improved easily. John Carter (talk) 16:37, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
John Carter: One thing I've noticed is that many Wikipedia articles have corresponding topical content at Wikisource, but lack the Wikisource link template (and often lack other sister links). For example, I just added {{Wikisource|search=Food}} to Wikipedia's Food article, which provides some useful Wikisource content. The template appears to only function with the search parameter within Wikipedia articles of the same topic. North America1000 12:01, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

April 2015 Wikification drive.

Greetings! Just spreading a message to the members of WikiProject Wikify that the April drive has been started. Come on, sign up! :) One hand on the mouse, one hand on the keyboard... and the feet can do the rest! Hee-hee! (talk) 03:46, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Random article generation

Links to generate random articles from "articles with too few wikilinks" categories. North America1000 12:12, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

All articles
2015
2014
2013

This week's article for improvement (week 15, 2015)

The wheel is one of the most famous and useful inventions in the history of technology
Hello, Northamerica1000.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

History of technology

Previous selections: Garbage picking • Antagonist

Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:14, 6 April 2015 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

A barnstar for you!

The TAFI Barnstar
Just a quick thank you for your efforts at reinvigorating TAFI, which seem to be paying off if last week's vote is anything to go by - Evad37 [talk] 01:48, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Messaging for weekly picks

Hey NA1000! With you recently messaging about weekly TAFI picks votes, I find that it really gets more votes/picks in, I found that it somewhat brings more activity to the project and with methods such as that to bring participation to a high, its great! Thanks, ///EuroCarGT 02:15, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Thanks EuroCarGT, and I wanted to take the opportunity to thank you for sending the weekly TAFI article of the week notices to project members. North America1000 16:10, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Seasonal beer

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Nahm/Naem/Chin Som

Hi there, Thanks for writing the Naem article! Just a few remarks: 1. I have never encountered the spelling Nham anywhere. I don't know where you found this particular transcription but according to the official transcription system (RTGS), it should be written as naem in Latin script. This also seems to be the most commonly found transcription for แหนม in Thailand. 2. I have also never encountered năam môr in Northern Thailand, only chin som (mu/nuea/khwai) for the local variant of naem (mu = pork; nuea = beef; khwai = water buffalo). I tend to trust Chiang Mai University's Lanna Food website for all things Northern Thai -> http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_lannafood/detail_lannafood.php?id_food=144 3. In RTGS, the transcription for "pork" would be mu, not moo. The spelling moo for หมู tends to be used a lot throughout Thailand though as it's more easy for English speakers to pronounce correctly than mu. - Takeaway (talk) 19:47, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Takeaway: Short response (for starters): Check out several sources used in the article that use the spelling "Nham". North America1000 19:53, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi again. I had a look and saw that the transcription "nham" appeared in three of the ten sources used. I have no idea which transcription system was used by the authors but it is not a standard one. I am guessing that someone thought up this transcription because of the English word "ham" and then placed an N in front of it. Seeing that this sausage isn't widely known outside of Thailand, it would seem to me that Wikipedia is still free to use the official transcription for this dish, being "naem", which also appears in two of the sources you used, as well as in the Chiang Mai University website that I provided. For some strange reason, the spelling "nham" seems to have found its way into American scientific literature on fermented meat products (what I saw when I briefly scanned the Google results), whereas "naem" seems to be used more by English language Thai food websites (see for instance here), and, in my experience, in English language menus in Thailand. It's not easy deciding which of the two transcriptions would be the one "most commonly used" per WP:COMMONNAME. My preference goes out to "naem" as you might have suspected. :) - Takeaway (talk) 22:05, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Of note is that I initially created the article under the name Naem, but changed it to its present title, per WP:COMMONNAME. The sources with the greatest depth of coverage use the name nham. Also, some of the sources in the article are not about naem, but instead, about dishes prepared with naem. North America1000 22:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Update – After further research, Google Books searches demonstrate that more sources use the name naem than nham. Compare Naem with Nham. The former runs out around page 7 in the search, while the latter runs out around page 3. As such, I have moved the article back to Naem. North America1000 22:31, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Of note is that some results also occur using Google Books using the spelling Nahn. North America1000 22:42, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
I understand why you used the spelling "nham", but as a lover of Thai food, my references tend to be culinary sources where the spelling "naem" is more frequently used, and not so much scientific literature on meat fermentation. WP:COMMONNAME also mentions "..as such names will be the most recognizable and the most natural". When thinking about this sausage, I'm assuming that the people who would look this up on Wikipedia, would mainly be interested in the spelling of this Thai food item as one would encounter it, and not so much in which spelling is used in scientific literature on meat fermentation. I think that, in a way, this is similar to why Wikipedia uses Artichoke instead of "Cynara cardunculus var. scolymus" even though most scientific, in-depth coverage would probably mention the latter name. I think that one of the reasons why the usual verification methods prescribed by Wikipedia doesn't really work here is due to the fact that this food item is hardly mentioned in English language recipe books or food blogs, and therefore "nham" shows up more often due to the (surprisingly) sizeable amount of English language scientific literature on this subject.
You might also want to take a look at the article nem, about Vietnamese (sausage) rolls. Thai naem is apparently a variant of the Vietnamese nem chua. I haven't done any in-depth research in to which one is considered the "original version" but from what I have read so far (sorry, no refs), it seems Vietnam is viewed as where this fermented sausage comes from.
Ha! I saw that you reverted the spelling back to "naem" in the meantime! Why this sudden change of heart? - Takeaway (talk) 22:58, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
See my update comment above. North America1000 23:03, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
You accidentally searched for "nahm", sausage instead of "nham", sausage. ~Here's the search using "nham", sausage. - Takeaway (talk) 23:15, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out my search error. Upon comparison, the search results are closer to one-another in comparison. I'm fine with leaving the article as-is, named Naem, though, as per your detailed analysis above. North America1000 23:22, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Cheers! But now on to another item. I saw that you used the Lonely Planet phrase book as a reference for "năam môr". It is true that Lonely Planet is widely used by many foreign tourists in Thailand but they do use one of the strangest transcription systems for Thai that I have encountered and which seems to be their own specific system. I don't know who curated the phrasebook but I don't think one can say that "năam môr" is used in Northern Thailand to refer to this fermented sausage, but instead refers only to a specific version of it, being the version which is fermented inside a pot (I am assuming now that "môr" is from the Thai word mo (Thai: หม้อ), meaning "cooking pot" (see here). Per the Chiang Mai University reference here above, and also per my own experience, chin som is the word used by northern Thais to refer to their version of naem, chin being Northern Thai for "meat", and som meaning "sour". See also this reference by Austin Bush (main (Thai) food expert for Lonely Planet and one of their main writers for their SE Asian guides (see 1)), where he uses the transcription "jin som" for the northern Thai word for "naem"-> http://www.austinbushphotography.com/blog/jay-noy.html - Takeaway (talk) 23:36, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Naem khluk ("mixed naem") is a dish prepared with naem
I removed content in the lead about "năam môr" as per your suggestion above (diff), and have left information in place in the Varieties section, stating "Năam môr in Northern Thailand may be fermented in a clay pot". North America1000 04:29, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
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