User talk:Lar/Archive 9

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Archive 9

I recognize that this user page belongs to the Wikipedia project and not to me personally. As such, I recognize that I am expected to respectfully abide by community standards as to the presentation and content of this page, and that if I do not like these guidelines, I am welcome either to engage in reasonable discussion about it, to publish my material elsewhere, or to leave the project.


This is an archive of User talk:Lar from about 15 June 2006 through about 1 July 2006. Please do not comment here, use my current talk page for that, thanks. It is part of a series of archives, see the box at right for the list and to navigate to others.

An index to all my talk page archives, automatically maintained by User:HBC Archive Indexerbot can be found at User:Lar/TalkArchiveIndex.

Talk Page Archives
My post 2012 archived talk
Archive 79 1 December 2012 through 1 December 2013
Archive 80 1 December 2013 through 1 December 2016
Archive 81 1 December 2016 through 1 December 2018
Archive 82 1 December 2018 through 1 January 2021
Archive 83 1 January 2021 through 1 January 2023
Archive 84 1 January 2023 through 1 January 2025 ??
RfA Thank Yous
RFA Archive Howcheng (27 Dec 2005) through present
All dates approximate, conversations organised by thread start date


Thanks Lar![edit]

Dear Lar, thanks so much for your support during my recent successful request for adminship. I really appreciate it. Thanks also for your kind comments -- I've got a whole heap of interesting medical pics; the hard part is getting the patients to allow them to be released! Take care and I look forward to working with you as an admin-- Samir धर्म 06:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Working Man's Barnstar
For your continuing supervision of the DYKs, I, Piotrus, hearby award you with The Working Man's Barnstar. Wear it proudly and keep up the good job! Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DYK fidding[edit]

Refactored to talk page where discussion was started.

Thank you, Larry![edit]

WTG, Larry! It wasn't displaying for me either, and I must say it's a beautiful pic Kylu made - thanks so much for gifting it to me! :) Btw, hun, I got your email, but I'm somewhat busy this week, so I've postponed most of my mail and talk page activity until Saturday. I hope to talk to you tomorrow, hun - I really enjoy our conversations. Kisses, Phædriel ♥ tell me - 12:17, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Artrain USA[edit]

Nice work on this new article. I went through made made a few grammatical and spelling enhancements (I hope). An excellent DYK candidiate. Mark Vaoverland 18:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the go-over, much improved... I can bang them out but I always miss the minor typos and such. I admit to a cheat, in that it was in my newest issue of TRAINS so I cribbed a fair bit from that story (reworded of course). I recall touring the 1967 Centennial Train in Canada but missed the Freedom Train. I'll have to try to get a pic of it as it is supposed to be back in Ann Arbor next week... ++Lar: t/c 19:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Did You Know?[edit]

Wow, I didn't think my article was going to make it to the Main Page...thanks for the information! - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 19:48, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Update notice[edit]

We edited at the same time, so although I did remove it, you did first. I just assumed you forgot, as another admin removed my DYK notice when I forgot. I don't see the problem with fixing grammatical errors. Nobody owns the template. — BRIAN0918 • 2006-06-18 20:01

Please do not unthread conversations. Refactored to your talk page. ++Lar: t/c 20:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for a certain page[edit]

There used to be a page where I could see all current AfD discussions in a table with percentages etc. It seems to have gone, could you reply to me with a link? --Matt 23:07, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean this one? User:Dragons_flight/AFD_summary/All at one point it was linked to from the AfD page, but I myself was looking for it the other day and didn't spot it there. Hope that helps. ++Lar: t/c 23:41, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Some of the editors feel that since AfD & etc are discussions used to build consensus, that the percentages are, at best, misleading. Personally I think it's a good way to get the "general feel" of how things are going and seeing which seem to be "ties" and in need of more opinions. Fortunately, I've got opinion enough for plenty of people! :D ~Kylu (u|t) 01:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, totally. This is true for the closer too. If it's a runaway one way or the other, maybe a BIT less checking but the closer still needs to check assumptions, look at the article and the cites and sources, evaluate who said what and why and so forth. ++Lar: t/c 03:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A suggestion[edit]

I saw "+idString.substr(pipeLoc+5,idString.length);", yet the character length after the date is always less anyway, than the whole length, so JS can't really give you "idString.length" characters preceding the index number "pipeLoc+5", so it must give what it has. This doesn't really matter then, but in this case, you don't even need a second argument, you just want the rest I believe[1].Voice-of-All 01:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I want the rest... JavaScript is not my strongest lang and I know too many to keep funcs straight and that was working! So what did you think? Any of those funcs useful enough to add to the overall collections? ++Lar: t/c 01:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I am still looking at them, though I like to minimize manual input (I need an alphabatizer for checkuser scripts too...). Perhaps you could explain the unsigned tool a bit more? Where do you get the input from to paste in the box?Voice-of-All 01:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I hate manual input too... but I could not think of how else.. You have to manually cut it from the article history after you determine which entry the correct one is that wasn't signed. Do you know how to have a script on ONE page save something up, then use it on some OTHER page? Can you read cursor position? I don't know how to do those things so this was the best I could come up with. One of the DYK automation scripts does not take any input, the other two do, they need the name of the article. Same problem, if there was a way to read from one page but use it in a different one the manual input cut/paste could be avoided. Examples gladly studied, point me at them. Also do you know how to reliably add a tab to ANY case where you are in edit mode and the page is any type of tab? My test wasn't working so I put the subst2 func into all the places I already have tabs being added... ++Lar: t/c 01:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Hmm what have we learned? You like bridges? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That I've edited a lot of bridges and only smatterings of other things, I guess... I asked for more because I wanted to compare the first set of suggestions against this new set.. not TOO much different believe it or not! So what brings you to this backwater when the salon is jumping with a party? ++Lar: t/c 03:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
/takes lampshade off head/ What? I can't hear you over the music! What?! WHAT!?? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Finnish tango[edit]

Refactored to keep together at Brian's page 00:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

DYK question[edit]

hi lar, just curious: i don't see the virginia gilmore/yul brynner item in the June 15 DYK line-up anymore. is it not going in after all? J. Van Meter 10:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. This diff [2] shows that Blnguyen removed all the 15 Jun nominated items as expired, (presumably since it is the 21st now). Someone subsequently added a new one to 15 June though. Note that not every item always gets selected. Hope that helps. ++Lar: t/c 11:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
ok, thanks for the info. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by J. Van Meter (talk • contribs) 08:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Artrain[edit]

Congrats on Artrain USA - this is a great new article! Johntex\talk 17:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why thanks. Credit to Vaoverland for some cleanup and Pharos for a great image though! I hope it gets picked for DYK, we'll see... ++Lar: t/c 17:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, dear Larry![edit]

Thanks so much for the valuable advice, Larry! Unfortunately, I'm kinda short of time this week to study your suggestions deeply, so I'll limit myself to think abou the posible contents of the Newsletter and design the proper templates as soon as I can. I may request your advice and Kingboyk's if I find myself stuck - which is a very likely scenario, I'm afraid... :( Kisses, Larry, l8r! Phædriel ♥ tell me - 18:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone else can set up a skeleton template, newsletter, the page structure etc too... If you like how we did it at Beatles, I'll do it for you, let me know. or just crib from us, Esperanza, MilHist, whoever does newsletters... ++Lar: t/c 21:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Give me a shout on MSN if you need any help, Sharon. --kingboyk 09:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hey now, I offered first. :) ++Lar: t/c 16:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DYK scrutiny[edit]

While I was aware vaguely abt Brian's scrutiny and found it to be in the nature of a minor irritant, I find the contents of the link that you provided (Brian picking on your DYK selection) very offensive. Btw, now that we have more admins updating DYK, we shd probly have a rule saying that an updating admin can't select a suggestion from his self-noms - oops, the first pary to be affected wd be moi ;), of my 2 noms, at least one is good. I'm not very tech-savvy and I don't know js & all; also, an admin who updates DYK once in a while may not install the script. For someone like me working on a slow net connection, updating so many talkpages is frustrating. Insisting on everyone following the same process, when it is so long, and more importantly, when DYK template is not refreshed for over 16 hrs., isn't ideal. I felt that you showed minor strains of WP:OWN on the discussion. I do tend to agree with your broad analysis that Brian's critiques are very off-putting to editors and admins alike - his suggestion that the DYK deadline can be extended by a day was also not acceptable. Anyways, let's see how it goes over the next week. Meanwhile, I request you to keep your cool, you are too important for WP to lose head so easily. --Gurubrahma 21:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your advice... I don't intend to be trying to own things mind you but it does come off that way I guess. We have to find a process (or processes) that work for casual updaters and for heavy hitters, and that take slow connectivity and inability to install things into account. Not sure how to do it but it's what we should work for. ++Lar: t/c 21:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, I have occasionally felt the inclination to update DYK, but have never (as far as I remember) done so simply because I knew it would take far too long :) But I appreciate others taking the time to make it work properly. It would be nice to find a quick, simple way to make it work, so the load could be shared more widely.
I am lothe to criticise Brian when he clearly spends a significant amount of time working on DYK and I would not want to lose his input, but I have noticed his, um, rather abrasive manner in other places before. Let us just say that he takes no prisoners, and does not suffer fools gladly. Shrug. -- ALoan (Talk) 01:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

LarSpam[edit]

Hrm, I was expecting something more... like actual content? I have to say, you keep your word, though. :P KillerChihuahua?!? 09:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oy! It's not enough that I mailed you, you want actual content? I could mail you a handy toolbox I guess... ++Lar: t/c 11:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If it was actually useful, it wouldn't be spam, now would it? KillerChihuahua?!? 12:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Typical Yapdog, doesn't know what it wants... did you want spam or not? (the toolbox isn't that handy if you ask me) Geez! ++Lar: t/c 13:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

American Buffalo (Coin)[edit]

These images should have come from here. I checked image sizes to make sure. I've indicated such on each talk page. Image talk:2006 American Buffalo Proof Obverse.jpg and Image talk:2006 American Buffalo Proof Obverse.jpg. Joe I 12:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

awesome. Can you update the image pages or do we need the uploader to do it? ++Lar: t/c 12:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
it said it was protevted, so I assumed I couldn't do it, not for sure tho. By the the way, it should be PD cause all US money images are, see Image:United States penny, obverse, 2002.jpg Joe I 12:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is protected, sorry, thought you were an admin. I'll do it shortly then, and thanks again.++Lar: t/c 12:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I like leavin the grunt work for others :) Welcome :) Joe I 12:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Emm, DYK[edit]

Unless I'm mis-reading it, the new addition to the DYK is factually inaccurate. It says DYK..."that Ashta Pradhan, a council formed by Shivaji in 1674 to help him in administration, was one of the first instances of ministerial delegation in India? " - But, Akbar had government Ministers way back in 1570, Humayun have what were de facto ministers too, and so did the successive Mughal rulers. Do you mean India, as in "Hindu", in which case you may well be right (I wouldn't really know), but Inidan, as in, "Rulers in India" is not entirely true... --Irishpunktom\talk 13:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Erm, no idea about that, actually. I read it, looked at the refs, thought about the hook, and it seemed a good article, so I picked it. I suggest you take this comment to the article talk page. You may find people that know more about the article there and it's a far better place to suggest corrections. Hope that helps, and thanks for caring about the quality of Wikipedia. ++Lar: t/c 14:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DYK[edit]

Updated DYK query On June 23, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Artrain USA, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--BRIAN0918 00:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:White (people)[edit]

Hi Lar, I know you're a busy admin, but if you have time you might visit this page and check the history. I noticed it popping up on the RC list and the recent activity just looks kind of strange...Doc Tropics 04:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi... just out of curiousity how'd you decide to pick me to ask about this? I tend to stay away from these sorts of controversies. I do agree something funny is going on there but I am not sure what exactly.... I'm probably not the right person to get involved in this particular article. I'll ask some other admins about it. ++Lar: t/c 04:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
How did I pick you? Heh, heh. I just 'joined' WP recently but I had been lurking around for awhile trying to learn about it. I have a file of admins whose work I really like/respect and, well...you're in it. I generally avoid that kind of article (not just controversial, but terminally POV with no hope of redemption), but I've noticed vandals frequently target controversial pages. When it kept popping up on RC I looked at the page (which is not something I'd normally contribute to) and I just couldn't figure out what the heck was going on, so I wanted to get your opinion. Sorry if I dumped a mess in your lap; I hope you can pawn it off share it with another admin. Thanks for taking the time to look into it.Doc Tropics 05:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Posted to the admin noticeboard, and thanks for being on your list! (who else is on there?). I was looking through your contributions (trying to evaluate where you're coming from...) and I see some nice work. I'd like to encourage you, if you expand another article significantly the way you did Fused glass, to nominate it for WP:DYK. New articles that are now over 1000 chars, or articles expanded from true stub status by at least 1000 more chars, (both within the last 120 hours) are eligible for listing on the front page as part of the DYK process. The expansion of Fused Glass, unfortunately, was just a bit too old when I noticed it, or I owuld have nominated it myself. ++Lar: t/c 12:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your kind words about Fused glass; you do know how to make a newcomer feel appreciated. I'm hoping to continously expand and improve that article in the hope of bringing it up to good article standards. Any suggestions you can make towards achieving that goal would be most welcome. Can we trade a few questions? I'm curious about how you 'tracked' my contributions; is there a special tool for admins to do that, or have I missed a good technique somehow? I'm very interested in following the contributions of those on my list because they are all good role models that I hope to learn from. Also, what conclusions, if any, did you come to about '...where I'm coming from'? I'm just curious about what kind of impression I might be making (and I certainly hope it's a good impression). Now to answer your question about who is on my 'little list'; I'll give a few examples (not complete by any means) with some general explanations:
  • GT Bacchus, Fuhghettaboutit, Lar - These folks are kind, courteous, thoughtful, well-spoken, and seem to have near-infinite patience.
  • Xoloz, Amidaniel, Cyde Weys, KimvdLinde - Great technical expertise, in and out of WP.
  • Bhadani - A good heart, a kind soul, and a brain much bigger than mine.
  • Tony Sidaway - Hardworking, well-intentioned, unafraid of controversy, and without a doubt...the biggest balls in town.
The more time I spend on WP the longer the list gets. If there is anyone else you think I should watch and learn from, please mention them. Thanks again for taking the time to work with a newbie :) Doc Tropics 16:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tracking contributions: I have a link in my toolbox that looks like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lar but with your userid instead, whenever I view your page. See my monobook.js. However you can just view your own contributions with the link at the top of the page, and then change it to point to whatever userid you like and hit enter again. I like to view a few contributions to see what sort of user I'm dealing with before I decide how to reply. Anyone can do it... not just admins.

I'm a bit pressed for time, I'll answer the rest later. I do have a few more people I think highly of.. I like how you've binned your list into different categories. I'll give you one to mull over, I think you know her already. (smile) User:Pschemp. She's smart, well versed in policy and process, has been around forever, and brooks no nonsense. If you've been scolded by her, you flubbed up, check your assumptions. Her balls are maybe not QUITE as big as Tony's though... ++Lar: t/c 16:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I know you must be busy (the joy of being an Admin, eh?); that's part of why I appreciate your answers so much. Also, they're good answers. User:Pschemp may lack certain of Tony's physical attributes but she makes up for it by carrying a big stick. She's on my list (I'm sure you guessed), but I just 'met' her yesterday and hadn't reviewed her work except where it seemed to coincide with mine. Thanks for all your advice and help. I'm looking forward to more if/when you have time. Happy editing! Doc Tropics 21:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Meant to come back to this and forgot. There are lots of great people out there to learn stuff from. One bunch I don't see you have mentioned yet are the tool jockeys... they write lots of useful perl and javascript to make things better. For instance, to name a few User:Interiot, User:Zocky, User:Lupin, User:Voice of All, and User:Titoxd... Read more at WP:US ... Hope that helps. Have fun exploring ++Lar: t/c 19:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the extra info. In wiki-terms I'm a bit like a Neanderthal...I haven't learned to use tools yet :) --Doc Tropics 19:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A short Esperanzial update[edit]

As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.

As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Wikipedia:Esperanza/June 2006 elections.

Thanks and kind, Esperanzial regards, —Celestianpower háblame 16:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Try and/Try to[edit]

re wikipedia talk:Did you know - funny, to me "try and do something" is so perfectly natural, correct, idiomatic, it strikes me as strange when someone replaces it with the more stilted (to me) "try to do something". I'm not offended :) But out of curiosity, are you familiar with "try and...", or does it strike you as totally bizarre and ungrammatical? Stevage 18:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's totally wrong, trust me. But yes it is QUITE idiomatic and probably widely used. Thanks for your post on the last topic, but it's the second to last I was hoping you'd look in on. Am I assuming that since you changed the wording, but not the sense, that you suppport that new selection guideline? Saying so would be VERY helpful right about now, but it's a bit of a messy discussion... ++Lar: t/c 18:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong? Hmm. I'll leave it at that. :) As a suggestion, I think it's a bit of unnecessary instruction creep, but it does no harm. Common sense dictates that you don't abuse your position as admin to promote your own creations (for whatever pride you get out of it), but since there haven't been any problems, I don't see any major need to mention it. I wouldn't vote for it, but I wouldn't vote against it either. Stevage 21:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If you are prescriptivist it is very wrong, trust me. If you are descriptivist, it's becoming less wrong as more people use it... I'm mostly someone that likes grammar as a thing to joke around about, rather than someone for whom it really matters.... although I guess I'm 55% P-ist and only 45% D-ist. :-) As for the new guideline... I do not like getting in bunfights with Brian. It's quite tedious, and as usual, we've a good one going already. So I would not have proposed it if I didn't think there was a strong need. Several people offwiki have told me it looks funny, told me they think it's wrong... people who would prefer not to face Brian's scrutiny. Brian picks one of his noms just about every time, or so it seems. So I think it's an active problem, albeit not a huge Wiki-Crisis... ++Lar: t/c 23:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Admin coaching[edit]

Our trainee does seem to have vanished doesn't he? Too much drinking ;) Anyway, are you ok to take on someone else and then possibly have two ongoing if he Condem returns? Petros471 21:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, with the proviso that I may get busy and be less or more active depending (and that's why having two coaches per coachee is such a brilliant idea!).. long term once I get the hang of this and there's some reusable stuff built up I could even see having 3 coachees at once, there's a backlog to chew through. That's a ways off, once I get better at it... but yes, that will be fine. ++Lar: t/c 22:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. I've assigned us Computerjoe. Petros471 16:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
See User:Computerjoe/Admin coaching and associated talk page. Petros471 17:29, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
thanks for setting that up. ++Lar: t/c 17:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mid update[edit]

Nope, I was just sorting out some minor issues with the last update and archiving some of the "archive". It all seemed to be complete before you started your update, so carry on. I protect the image at the very last moment before the template update (unless I forget :-) Which image is it BTW? --Cactus.man ✍ 13:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kitty Hawk. I am taking Joe Walker instead. No older choices are any good articlewise. Bet I get a hard time about taking a June 22 image? ++Lar: t/c 13:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Heh, nevermind, I was about to say I just worked it out (reading the whole message properly usually helps), but you beat me to it. June 22 is fine by me, it's all about balance and quality. Happy updating. --Cactus.man ✍ 13:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Okashina Okashi[edit]

Having reviewed it, following Dragonfiend's request, I felt that a relist may generate further comments on the specific issue of verifiability, which haven't been specifically address by many of the comments so far. Whether a deletion review would have been a better choice, I'm not sure - with a relist, the editors who originally commented will be notified of new comments (assuming they are watching it), although I guess they could have been manually notified of a review. Also, the deletion review is more related to the process rather than the content (which may result in a relisting anyway). Either way there is no rush, so I'll leave it as a relist for now unless there are any major objections. Cheers TigerShark 18:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for letting me know. I have left a comment. Thanks TigerShark 22:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, sorry for not replying directly to the comment you left at 20:35 - I didn't notice it because it was at the same level as Xuanwu's. Thanks TigerShark 22:59, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re List of European Union member states by political system[edit]

As I'm sure you've noticed by now, I didn't re-nominate List of European Union member states, but a second article, List of European Union member states by political system. BTW, if you've got any idea as to what the first article could be renamed to work in tandem with the second one, that would be greatly appreciated... —Nightstallion (?) 16:58, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I confess to being mightily confused here as I picked what I thought was the nominated article. I've been away from keyboard a fair bit and am not sure at this point how best to sort out whatever has happened. Assuming something's happened? ++Lar: t/c 21:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DYK?[edit]

Hi Lar, you had mentioned wanting articles for DYK. I found this last night and started expanding it. I'm hoping you'd be willing to have a quick look and tell me what more it needs (I have a lot more info, but I work slowly and it would take a lot more time to give this an in-depth treatment). I have some pics (my own work) which I'll add shortly; I just need to review the process and policy for adding images. I know the article could use some clean-up, especially with issues of grammer, spelling, and punctuation but that shouldn't take long. I know you're a busy guy, but if you can let me know how to bring this up to DYK quality I'll do my best. Thanks in advance --Doc Tropics 17:23, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I uploaded a pic (Image:Higgins glass A.jpg) for the Higgins glass article, but I have two issues and I'm hoping you can help:

1) I doubt I handled the licensing correctly since this was my first try.

:2) When I tried to add the image to the page it it freaking HUGE! Can it be shrunk to fit somehow? --Doc Tropics 17:58, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind #2, i forgot to add 'thumbnail' to the tag. now i've got it. --Doc Tropics 18:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First, remember you have 5 days total for a DYK article once it is live in main space.. so work on it in your user space for best results. However this is an expand so the timer's started from when you started expanding. The article looks nominatable to me already, go for it.

Tampa streetcar

Second... if you took the image yourself that's a fine license. I use a dual, GFDL and CC-SA (done with {{self2|GFDL|cc-by-2.5}} ) but that's fine if you do not care about attribution. There are a few stray { and ] though in your description somewhere... HOWEVER you may want to consider uploading images you took yourself that are freely licensed to Commons rather than en so that all wikimedia projects (other languages etc) can use them. Here's an example image which shows commons, and shows how I license and how you can use a nice template to add lots of good info.

Third I see you answered your own question about how to use thumbs.. Look also into the parameter for explicit size... see how I added the 100px tagging in that example? ++Lar: t/c 19:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all the great info; I'll study your edits and learn more about the fine details. An extremely kind and helpful editor Captain Vindaloo cleaned up a lot of the rough spots quite nicely. The article can certainly be expanded more in the future, but since you and the Captain both think it's ready for DYK I'm anxious to see if it can pass muster...Doc Tropics 19:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please do nominate it then! ++Lar: t/c 20:48, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I asked Captain Vindaloo to do the honors; that guy really knows how to edit! I uploaded another image (a silly one called "Recycled cat.jpg) and tried to do a better job this time. Since I don't care about attribution I went with the basic licensing. I'm really looking forward to input on Higgins glass; thanks again for your help and support! --Doc Tropics 20:53, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we just made DYK and you can't imagine what a strong positive reinforcement that is, especially for a newbie like me (ok, you probably can imagine...). Of course it wouldn't have been possible without your kind guidance. Thanks! --Doc Tropics 17:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not just DYK, featured pic too... :) (I selected it because it's really a nice pic and looks great on the main page) You gotta fix the info box though (on commons, not here, as the one here will be deleted once it's off the main page so the Commons one can shine through) Now stand back and wait for the article improvements to flow in. ++Lar: t/c 17:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I put on my "thick skin" and got a sturdy umbrella, so I'm ready for a deluge of suggestions and changes. Fortunately I don't think of WP articles in a possessive fashion so I'll just be happy to see the article improve. Regarding the image (which inclusion thrilled me) I'm a little dense about some things and learn faster from actual examples. Is it possible you can make the necessary changes and I can learn how by seeing what you did? Or do I need to make the changes because I uploaded it? --Doc Tropics 17:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably better that you make the changes, although I COULD, I guess... you really should though, they are your images. See for example these images to see how stuff is done. commons:Image:Turnover_001.jpg or commons:Image:Valleyfair MN Jun2006 HighRoller back DSCN8312.JPG... note that in addition to info about the image you can put descriptions or links back into wp articles... mine links back to w:Valleyfair! (the w: prefix while on commons shows it's interwiki). Hope that helps. BTW I could not find the image you referred to (recycled cat)... if you wanted me to look can you give me a link? ++Lar: t/c 17:54, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar[edit]

The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
For always cheerfully assisting others and in general being a great guy to have on the Wikipedia! Kylu

Please review a deletion made contrary to consensus[edit]

Please review the deletion of Names of European cities in different languages, and the related articles Names of Asian cities in different languages and Names of African cities in different languages. These were discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Names of European cities in different languages, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Names of Asian cities in different languages, and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Names of African cities in different languages.

The vote was: Keep: Future Perfect at Sunrise Interlingua Trialsanderrors Atillios Carlossuarez46 (me) Kierant Adam78 Khoikhoi Goldom Pasquale Eivind F Øyangen Fastifex Aguerriero Slowmover Lambiam Irpen Olessi Travelbird Nightstallion Agathoclea Folks at 137 Lethe Qviri Riadlem Peteris Cedrins Reimelt Nick C

Delete: Motor Theoldanarchist Mangojuice Dawson Isotope23 WicketheWok Centrx Angus McLellan Masterhatch Tychocat


That is: 27-10 to keep. While I know that it’s not a strict vote-counting exercise, the usual rule of thumb is not to delete unless there is a strong consensus expressed to do so – i.e., give the benefit of the doubt toward keeping. Here, process was thwarted.

The administrator closing the AfD acted contrary to the consensus expressed at the AfD by making his/her own judgment that the content was not encyclopedic. The whole issue of alternate placenames is very much encyclopedic and has been the subject on ongoing debate among Wikipedians, for example at: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names) and the various disputes about whether to use “Danzig” or “Gdansk” for that city near the Baltic, etc.. Also, similar articles remain extant in several other Interwiki’s (since the article is deleted, the interwiki links are gone too, otherwise I could cite which), so they appear encyclopedic to people who speak other languages. Please restore the articles. Carlossuarez46 18:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Review in progress at WP:DRV#Names of cities in different languages (for convenience's sake) ~Kylu (u|t) 23:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Uploading of DYK Commons image[edit]

Is there any reason why you uploaded and protected the Spartan Stadium picture under a different filename when you updated DYK yesterday? Just curious. Kimchi.sg 06:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, it was a screwup. I'm not sure why the name changed when I copied it and then I ran out of time to fix it. ++Lar: t/c 11:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue IV - June 2006[edit]

The June 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. —ERcheck (talk) @ 11:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Undeletion[edit]

Refactored to User talk:Zoney, please don't double post. ++Lar: t/c 14:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Response to admonishments[edit]

I have apologised for my actions. I had not been aware that Wikipedia:Deletion review should have been my first port of call, even considering deletions "out of process". In my defence, I have not been heavily involved in the deletion process since the days of "Votes for Deletion" and "Votes for Undeletion". In the case of the latter, it would have seemed unnecessary to "vote for undeletion" something which wasn't "voted for deletion". My comments about consensus (even with the "not just going by headcount"), I stick by, and I would have made those in any submission to Deletion Review.

I am aware from the mailing list debates about the concerns over "wheel warring". Far fewer administrators were about when I began here. It is indeed a growing problem (as I understand it, again from the mailing list), and it seems procedures have been updated to attempt to avoid Wheel warring.

Evidently the time has come for me to reread various policies on the subject of deletion, as they are not likely to be at all similar to say, two years ago.

zoney ♣ talk 14:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DYK[edit]

Thanks for selecting my contribution. The Church Hill Tunnel entry would also be a good one because it is all over the news here about digging it up. The article is carefully footnoted, too. Thanks, Mark Vaoverland 18:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's still time... it may get selected not to worry. ++Lar: t/c 18:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image info[edit]

Don't forget to recycle

I wasn't sure how to give you a link so I just dropped it in here. Feel free to delete it as 'clutter'. As you can tell I'm still struggling a bit with how to handle images properly. I'll follow the links you gave me and try to force some new knowledge into my head...first I'll need to find a crowbar...Doc Tropics 18:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're doing fine. No need to be too self deprecating, that can wear thin a bit sometimes. I tweaked the image info box on recycled kitten to give you some ideas about better practice (linkified your userid) but it was mostly just fine. ++Lar: t/c 18:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. Sorry Lar, didn't mean to get on your nerves, I'm probably just overcompensating :) I think I corrected the image info for the Higgins glass; mostly I just copy-and-pasted from the kitten image. Hopefully that works. --Doc Tropics 18:38, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To give an image link is a bit tricky until you remember the principle that putting it there does something. As with linking to but not using categories, use a colon on front to make it a link and not an invocation... the image as a link: [[:Image:Recycled kitten.jpg|Don't forget to recycle]] which displays as: Don't forget to recycle (you need to strip away thumb/left/NNpx etc parameters as whatever is there is the link name so only a single parm is valid) ++Lar: t/c 13:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your support in my RfA![edit]

Thanks for voting!
Hello Lar/Archive 9, and thanks for your support in my recent RfA. I'm pleased to announce that it passed with a final tally of (96/0/0). I was overwhelmed by all of the nice comments and votes of confidence from everyone. Thanks again, and see you around! itsJamieOhNo Talk 06:45, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Alevtina Kolchina assistance[edit]

I wanted to send you a Thank-You remark for your assistance in the Alvetina Kolchina submission. I look foward to working with you in future endeavours. Chris 12:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Georgia Internation Horse Park[edit]

Refactored to talk page of Chris to keep conversation threads together. ++Lar: t/c 13:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also listed on talk page. Chris 13:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DYK on Susan Richardson[edit]

Thanks for selecting it. I apologize for being short with you, but the last four or five DYK nominations I submitted were rejected on sight, and basically for the sole reason of "I didn't like it." I know I don't especially like Russian history articles, but I don't cause ruckus about them having their little spotlight. I'm not going to lecture you on how to do your job, but I'm glad you kept an open mind about this one. :) Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 16:13, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How long ago was the last one you'd nom'ed? Perhaps before my time. Anyway, please do see the discussion thread at WT:DYK, we're trying some things to give feedback to every article nominated which may or may not work, and your input as a repeat nominator would be great. There are other things we'd love to see input on too, please give a read. ++Lar: t/c 16:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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