User talk:Joy/Archive/2012

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Indefinite IP block

I see that in September you blocked 58.173.109.51 and 58.173.108.97. I certainly agree with a block, but it is not normal to block IP addresses indefinitely, and I wondered whether there are special circumstances justifying making an exception in this case. I also see that the combined editing history of the two IP addresses covers just over two months. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

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Thanks re NDH military articles

Thanks for your work on the NDH articles. Way above my pay grade, but I'll get there eventually. Peacemaker67 (talk) 00:49, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Hidden racism

I really cannot understand why you are persevering in the pointing of the (half) Jew ascendency of Puhovski, based on none of his maybe thousand works and ond one interview, where the title was pulled out of a context (what stresses the sensacionalist narure of that weekly)? Did you verify even if the director is fully (or halfly) circumcised? Even if positive, this kind of stressing the ascendency of people is racist, and in Croatian situation can be harmful. And, by the way, I don't act hidden by the nickname. It is a confortably, but not allways honest, to point the other persons "racial" descent. Inoslav Bešker (talk) 08:25, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Very well, reading your answers, I try to understand your point of view, but frankly it doesn't seem logical to me. Let's look together.

Here is yor answer: "Please review what I wrote at Talk:Nenad Puhovski once again, and I'm sure you'll come to a completely different conclusion about my position on the matter. If you just click on User:Joy, you will also come to a completely different conclusion regarding the use of a nickname.

Please remember to assume good faith from others, in particular when there's a chance you misread something :)

But, on to the director's origin issue - the reason why your, and partially my own, interpretation isn't able to simply override User:Eversman's is that we are quoting the WP:BLP policy and they are quoting the equally valid WP:V policy. It is verifiably true that Nenad Puhovski has Jewish ancestry. That detail could be insignificant, but we seem to have significant coverage of it, so we can't just pretend the issue is not there.

Instead, we need to phrase it in a way that is appropriate in the context of a biography and to avoid the impression that it's promoting anti-Semitism, while keeping the referenced sources.

--Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:39, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

You should also notice another angle - the other user isn't actually promoting a racist, anti-Semitic angle - to the contrary, they are in effect promoting the person's Judaism. In any case, encyclopedia articles should be free of advocacy of any kind. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 09:08, 19 January 2012 (UTC) "

1) You are right about the nickname. But, on the other hand, looking at the User:Joy, I didn't find any data about your ancestry, its "race", its faith and so forth. In Croatia those data can afflict a human existence. There is no need to stress them if they are not significant for those facts which maka a person worth to appear in Wikipedia - i. e. his work, his achievements, or misfacts. I am not discussing your intentions, but the way to the hell sometimes is paved with a good intentions.

2) I can give you a hundred of insignificant details about the person whose faith, ancestry and/or "race" you stress in Wikipedia, which "seem to have significant coverage of it". Are they worthy to be published only for the sake of the "significant coverage"? Let's not be so naif. Significant coverage is not enough.

3) In the first version you pointed that the person in question is Jew. Even if that male was not recognized as Jew by the rabi, not circumcised, not gone through Bar Mitzvah ceremony. And - most important of all - that person does not consider himself as a Jew. Are you sure that the "significant coverage" of yours is more important in the field of the ethnic and/or religious appartenence then the will of the person himself? Would you use the same criteria on, maybe, Ante Starčević because of his Serb Orthodox mother? Would you turn Šenoa in German because of his hundred percent German ancestry? Or Gaj? Vojislav Šešelj in Croat? Me in Vallachian? Tommaseo in Croat? Obama in Kenyan or in Moslem (somebody did it)? Ethnic and/or religious appartenence is exclusive matter of the person himself, of the persons own decision, not of any ancestry. The person is individua, not a mere product of his ascendents. Do you realise that our ascendents, in ultima ratio, were Africans? What does it prove? Oh, my!

4) I cannot see as a promoting Judaism sorting of any person among the Jews against his will. That criteria was applied on Edith Stein, for instance - and that catholic nun was killed as a Jew. Please, take in consideration the context where the people live. In the country where the people can be still (in our lifetime) killed because of their Serb or Croat ancestry, where the majority elected for the President a man who expressed a happines for not having "nor Serb, neither Jew as a wife", is very hard to see any promotion of Judaism in pointing to the Jewish ancestry. Maybe you are lucky enough to live in an ivory tower within your homeland, but I have same indirect and direct knowledge about my homeland which doesn't allow me to share your point of view. Inoslav Bešker (talk) 14:05, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Ruđer Bošković

That is not true about Italian references! Look at my reference, it's from official Italian encyclopedia. However, I didn't write he is a Serb. So, it is not OK to speak of a "flurry of pro-Serbian edits", at least when applied to me.

This is the neutral point of view, which not represent any of national points of view. Keep this in mind, please!

Best regards! Ljuboni (talk) 14:11, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Once more

I really appreciate your pacated tone (being of a Morlach ascendence, I have a little bit different temper :). Only two short remarks. First: there is no need to copy&paste anything to Prof. Puhovski. Matter of fact, it was him who answered to my praises on Wikipedia that it is not true, and that some people on Wikipedia persecute him with a false statement of his Jewness. That he tried to remove, but the next day tha statement was back. I've seen him really upset. I avoid to go to Croatia if I can, I was in Zagreb for 19 hours trip, and that is what I had to hear. Maybe I am too sensible, but I can't stand when the people suffer for something they did not cause, and nobody can cause his ancestry. Second: You say: "Trying to simply remove or obfuscate this information from his Wikipedia article won't do any good - the bad guys already know about it." This is not so true. There is a difference between a level of disponibility and of veridicity between Nacional and Wikipedia, I hope. When on Praljak's website they write that I am UDB's agent, I don't care. I'd be worried if they praised me. But I'd be really upset finding it on my biography in Wikipedia. Inoslav Bešker (talk) 17:34, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your understanding. Inoslav Bešker (talk) 10:05, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Your edit in Media Player Classic

Hello, Joy.

I finally opened your talk page! What a feat! That was a like a Labor of Hercules!

Anyway, either this edit of yours in Media Player Classic is very strange or I am missing something. Could you please explain?

Thanks. Fleet Command (talk) 16:19, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

P.S: I really do not want to behave unfriendly but it took me 26 minutes to open your talk page and notify you of the revert. I really think it would be a great idea to archive your talk page. Fleet Command (talk)

Oh, so that was the reason! I comprehend now, although without your explanation, I saw it as an edit that linked from a more comprehensive article to a less comprehensive article. But I now think your edit is justified. Cheers. Fleet Command (talk) 10:14, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

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KONCAR - Catering Equipment inc

If you want to avoid having this article speedily deleted as spam, you're going to have to explain to the reason why this specific company is notable. As it is, it looks more suitable for a paragraph in the general KONČAR Group article. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:17, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Of course. KOCAR was largest (or one of the largest) conglomerates in Yugoslavia. After the war for independence on these areas, it was divided into a several companies. Koncar - cat. eq. is one of them, and therefore one of the largest Cro companies (just) with notable histoy. It bears importance for people in Croatia, and is listed on Croatian Wikipedia. En Wikipedia is suitable for En readers, and as the company distributes products in the whole world, I thought it uable to post about it. If you deem that this does not abide by rules of en wikipedia, remove it.

 -> Also, you can revork it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.255.192 (talk) 14:39, 1 February 2012 (UTC) 

Podunavlje

Hi. What you think about this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podunavlje_(Croatia) By my opinion, it should be merged with Podunavlje article because it is clear example of duplicated content. Also, demographics data used there is unsourced and does not look reliable, due to the fact that exact borders of Podunavlje cannot be specified. PANONIAN 19:33, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Župa

A quick check shows that the Ip's edits are OR or unrelated to the article, see the talk page, Thank you.--Zoupan (talk) 15:47, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

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University of Pristina

Joy there's a discussion on University of Pristina[1] regarding a possible split so if you have any kind of input about the possible titles please feel free to drop a line.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 11:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Territorio Sahara Libico

Joy, I saw you deleted Territorio Sahara Libico per CSD g5; however, it looks like another contributor found a mirrored version of the article (probably on eNotes) and has recreated it here. Would you be all right with me undeleting the article and merging its history into the recreated article? I figured I should check with you first just so you're aware. It doesn't appear the new contributor has any connection with the original contributors. Cheers! — madman 09:06, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Joy. Margate92 was banhammered as another sockpuppet and I deleted the new article per CSD g5. Cheers! — madman 07:17, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Osanna of Cattaro

Hello, Joy. Thank you for working with me on the Blessed Osanna article. Is it the rule that only incoming redirects get bolded in an article? I didn't know that, but it sounds reasonable. I'll unbold "Katarina (Catherine Cosie)" a little later in the article—I don't see an incoming redirect for it. --Kenatipo ^speak! 17:39, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Joint Council of Municipalities

Bok možeš li pogledat dali su ovi sili predlošci i njihovo gomilanje o jednoj organizaciji potrebni Joint Council of Municipalities uskoro bi mogli imati i svaku ulicu, presjednika mjesnog odbora naziv kanala između jagodnjaka i uglješa u predlošku.--Sokac121 (talk) 21:09, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Pitanje

Pozdrav. Zanima me da li je u Zagrebu moguće organizirati nekakav jednodnevni tečaj o wikipediji i uređivanju wikipedije pošto mi se čini da sam vidio da se takve aktivnosti organiziraju u Americi. Koliko sam shvatio to je kod njih čak i formalno organizirano, ali ja ne ciljam na to kod nas već samo na nekakvo predavanje sa prezentacijom. Konkretno volio bih u jednoj manjinskoj udruzi organizirati takav nazovimo tečaj ili seminar te ih uključiti u rad na wikipediji gdje bi oni mogli proširiti neke članke i napisati neke nove uglavnom vezane uz lokalne zajednice iz kojih dolaze. Zatim bih na svojoj stanici napravio posebnu stranicu na kojoj bi ta grupa mogla organizirati svoje aktivnosti u tom nekom periodu u kom bi bila aktivna (ili neka slična forma). Tebi se obraćam pošto nisam uspio pronaći adresu naše lokalne wikimedije, a vjerujem da možeš biti od velike pomoći ako je nešto takvo moguće. Možeš li mi predložiti nekog iskusnog člana projekta iz Zagreba koji bi htio volontersi tako nešto napraviti ili si možda i sam zainteresiran? Svaki savjet i mišljenje je dobrodošlo zaista. Vidim i da ste gore komentarisali kako vam se ne sviđa predložak o ZVO-u, ja ga ne bih brisao (možda onaj sa osobama), već ako moramo nešto napraviti možda je bolje da ih sve spojimo u jedan predložak. Pozdrav.--MirkoS18 (talk) 23:34, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

River valleys

Hi! I recently noticed Pokuplje article - besides being a bare bones stub saying that Pokuplje is Kupa River basin - and I thought to look for Podravina, Posavina and Podunavlje... finding all of them in various stages of development. The first two are stubs (Posavina is actually rated start-class but that seems dubious at best) and the latter seems to cover Danube basin in Serbia with a section on Croatian Danube valley grafted onto the structure. Contents aside, titles of the articles seem off - i.e. they should be, IMO, replaced with English titles. For instance, Rivers of Europe speaks of Sava valley, Danube valley, Kupa valley etc. instead of Posavina, Podunavlje - except when referencing proper names of protected areas, master plans etc. containing that type of term. Posavina, for instance is fine name in Croatian for the Sava valley, but that's no name in English, and is apparently not used by most literature on the topic. How do I proceed proposing this type of change? Should it be done on case-by-case basis or as a "joint naming scheme"?--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:11, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Yea, a RFC might be the best avenue to pursue this. Still, I suspect corresponding regions to Podravina and Podunavlje may exist in Hungary, possibly Austria, in case of both, in Slovenia in case of Drava, and in Romania and Germany in case of the Danube. For a similar case see Lower Sava Valley article... Anyway, I'll do some research on similar/corresponding regions in the aforementioned countries to formulate a broad but manageable RFC and run it by you first - if you don't mind.

I wouldn't normally pursue this but once I rearranged Geography of Croatia article, I noticed a wide selection of overlapping and loosely defined regions of Croatia, including those four.--Tomobe03 (talk) 21:55, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Raci - Rascians

Hi. Can you please rename Raci article to Rascians. That title is more suitable for English Wikipedia and I cannot rename it by myself because of technical issues. PANONIAN 08:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

alternate names getting nowhere

It really looks like we are not getting anywhere with the alternate name business of Sasa Hirszon and, by extension, all other tennis player names with diacritics. If "English", "Common" or "Alternate" won't work for you, and since they are the terms a casual reader will understand, I think it best if this go to ANI where a large group may be better able to explain to me why the double standard by you. I am willing to have both or willing to have neither, but I'm not willing to have only one side of the issue get a parenthetical alternate name and leave the other version in the lurch. That seems coldly unfair. Maybe they'll all agree with you, but I hope that at least one of them will give me an answer I can understand. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:32, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

:Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Saša Hiršzon - Alternate name policy". Thank you. --Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Categories renaming request

Hi! I think that all categories in the Category:History of the Ottoman Empire by country should be renamed from "Ottoman X" to "History of X during Ottoman administration" (e.g. Category:History of Bulgaria during Ottoman administration), as User:PANONIAN has began doing.--Zoupan (talk) 10:07, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Removal of supported material

Hi! Just noticed removal of properly sourced material through several edits from Croatia article. Could you please have a look at that?--Tomobe03 (talk) 17:40, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

No consensus

Hello Joy, I'll try to keep it short. There is no consensus over adding the blog post by Mr. Burgic in the Boris Malagurski article, as both User:Wikiwind and I agree that e-novine is not a reliable source. Therefore, please don't make edits that support only your personal view, in conflict with other views expressed on the talk page and label them "as per Talk page". That's very misleading. Furthermore, if you feel concerned that there is no criticism regarding Malagurski's work in that article, I share that criticism with you, but that doesn't mean there has to be criticism at any cost, even by adding a blog post re-posted by an opinionated online "news" website, especially one that has a reputation of making stories up, using swear words and insults, and has been sued by prominent individuals such as Palme D'Or winning director Emir Kusturica (link). So, please, stop adding the e-novine link, but do feel free to add any criticism when it's cited by a reliable source. Happy editing! --UrbanVillager (talk) 00:48, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Radovan.karadzic.fs.jpg

Moved to User_talk:Nikola_Smolenski#File_permission_problem_with_File:Radovan.karadzic.fs.jpg because that's the original uploader (who linked User:Nikola Smolenski/FreeSrpska). --Joy [shallot] (talk) 09:55, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Re:WikiProject Eastern Europe, Cities, Geography on JCM

I put more than one category because it seemed to me that in this way more editors can contribute articles. Something like task force for Serbian minority in Croatia would be very interesting and as far as the content is in question it certainly would not be lack of them. However, I am very suspicious that such a thing is possible at all. Firstly, this task force would have a limited number of editors. But, this is not an unsolvable problem. Much bigger problem would be the reaction of Wikipedia community. Of course it is not problem for me to confront my views with other editors if I believe that it is possible to achieve something constructive. But I doubt that I could got support for this on project Croatia. Nevertheless, I certainly will not start with such a thing even on some another project if I dont have support of Croatia project (unless it is a very obvious sabotage) because it can be "toxic" for positive cooperation and trust. Also, for this we no doubt need support from Serbia project (even if only formal). Something like that may be possible to do at projects such as Ethnic groups/Eastern Europe/Europe (because they are neutral and in any way unproblematic) with support of both projects (Croatia,Serbia). All this is unfortunately beyond my current abilities. Lijep pozdrav.--MirkoS18 (talk) 18:29, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I do not know what to think. It is logical to make task force of this scope, and then it is logical to make on project Serbia. And again, I can understand that some can feel task force called e.g. "Serbian diaspora" which located on the project Serbia and write articles related to Croatia/Bosnia/Montenegro quite offensive. But again, I am interested to write almost exclusively about Serbs in Croatia. Can an established task force like "Serbs of Croatia" be transferred from one project (Croatia) to to another (Serbia) if develop into "Serbs" or "Serbian diaspora"? With this development can be avoided suspicions in good faith of editors at this task force I believe. So I would maybe prefer to start task force on project Croatia but with support of project Serbia, and later, if expand its topics transfer it to the project Serbia if it is necessary or useful. This can even be an excellent example of cooperation of Balkan editors. As for the technical part, I dont know to do task force and I am little afraid to start do that although it is easy you say.--MirkoS18 (talk) 19:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Revert warring in Serbia under German occupation

Hi. Can you please check some recent revert warring in Serbia under German occupation. DIREKTOR and Peacemaker67 are reverting my edits (see: [2], [3]), but they refuse to discuss this on talk page (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Serbia_under_German_occupation#Most_recent_revert_warring_of_DIREKTOR ). What should be done here and how this could be solved if users reject to discuss the issue? PANONIAN 11:55, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Slavonia

Hi! I just noticed your edit in Slavonia article and thought to ask you if you have any ideas about possible additions of the article before I request a GOCE copyedit and GA review? I would like to add something brief (in economy section) about forests and forestry, but I'm still looking for good sources on that.--Tomobe03 (talk) 12:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to events in June and July: bot, script, template, and Gadget makers wanted

I invite you to the yearly Berlin hackathon. It's 1-3 June and registration is now open. If you need financial assistance or help with visa or hotel, just mention it in the registration form.

This is the premier event for the MediaWiki and Wikimedia technical community. We'll be hacking, designing, and socialising, primarily talking about ResourceLoader and Gadgets (extending functionality with JavaScript), the switch to Lua for templates, Wikidata, and Wikimedia Labs.

Our goals for the event are to bring 100-150 people together, including lots of people who have not attended such events before. User scripts, gadgets, API use, Toolserver, Wikimedia Labs, mobile, structured data, templates -- if you are into any of these things, we want you to come!

I also thought you might want to know about other upcoming events where you can learn more about MediaWiki customization and development, how to best use the web API for bots, and various upcoming features and changes. We'd love to have power users, bot maintainers and writers, and template makers at these events so we can all learn from each other and chat about what needs doing.

Check out the the developers' days preceding Wikimania in July in Washington, DC and our other events.

Best wishes! - Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation's Volunteer Development Coordinator. Please reply on my talk page, here or at mediawiki.org. Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Volunteer Development Coordinator 14:30, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

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Deleting a sandbox page

Hi! I just moved Mountainous Croatia article from my sandbox to the livespace, but a redirect page was left over. Do I need to delete it and if so, how?--Tomobe03 (talk) 14:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. Best wishes and happy holidays!--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:41, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Merge

You created Template:History of the Czech Republic. Another user had created another template with the same topic: Template:History of Czech Republic. You should merge these two together if your template missed something. ༆ (talk) 05:37, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

User:Sundostund

Please look into this guy's editing history. He had removed merge proposals from List of Prime Ministers of the Republic of Serbian Krajina and List of Presidents of the Republic of Serbian Krajina from January. He had also simply deleted the thread about it at Talk:Republic of Serbian Krajina [4]. I restored the changes and left him a message but he simply deleted it [5] and he also deleted an earlier warnings you posted at his talk page [6]. Does not seem like he has any intent of discussing anything. Timbouctou (talk) 18:04, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't feel like going through the usually futile wiki bureaucracy. The articles in question were tagged for merger since January and it seems nobody opposed it, with Sundostund ignoring the discussion. Can't you simply merge it all back into main article? Timbouctou (talk) 20:17, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

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Velimir Habrun

Now at AfD Velimir Habrun, just thought i'd inform you, as you proded the article before it was contested by an IP. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 19:34, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Attack on Prekaz

WhiteWriter wants to include (infobox) that Jashari was the leader of terrorist gang that was destroyed by the Serbian police. I objected (POV) and added what I consider a neutral description[7], but he considers the terrorist label a fact[8]. If you could comment, please feel free to drop a line.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 22:00, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons

Invitation to diacritics guideline discussion at WT:BLP

Hi, you were one of 100+ Users who has commented on a living person Requested Move featuring diacritics (e.g. the é in Beyoncé) in the last 30 days. Following closure of Talk:Stephane Huet RM, a tightening of BLP guidelines is proposed. Your contribution is invited to WT:BLP to discuss drafting a proposal for tightening BLP accuracy guidelines for names. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:04, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to duplicate this invite on the pages of others who have commented, for or against. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:10, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Uncivility?

Hi there JOY, VASCO here,

i am sincerely amazed at your message. PERSONAL ATTACKS? Maybe i said some words "too many" in my summaries and i indeed mentioned your person, but i don't think i was rude offensive or similar.

I had retired from WP last week, and returned with a new attituded (never again feeding the trolls, being friendly always without mistake), and now find this...I have nothing to apologize i feel, but yet offer my sincere apologies if you felt (as you did) offended. As for the VUJOVIC brothers, i think it is OK to mention the other in their articles in intro as they spent much of their careers together, but i apologize for removing the Yugoslav Footballer of the Year wikilink, did it inadvertently, not "censored" as you put it.

Sincerely, from Portugal - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 16:02, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

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Copyright notices

Hi! It seems that a user at the Commons started removing material marked as PD-Croatia-exempt claiming at his/her talk page there that explicit permission of use stated at the government web site and interpreting Artice 8, Section 1 differently from what it specifically says. I don't know how to proceed, besides advising the user (to little avail), so could you provide some pointers please?--Tomobe03 (talk) 12:50, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Romanization of Serbian

Hey, I noteced your edits at that article, and I just wanted to tell you that you did a great job and to thank you for expanding it. User:In ictu oculi made an effort to improve it, but you fixed it perfectly just after. The only part which is missing is the period between 1918-WWII. I beleave that must be the crutial period, as it was then that the languages were merged with the creation of the Serbo-Croato-Slovenian, and it must be during that period that the new language became digraphical. Thus it was then that Serbs start having the option of writting its language, now called S-C-S, in both alphabets. Makes sense, right? I can´t find any source for this, but all events make me come to this conclusion.

Anyway, all of this comes from a series of discussions about the use of diacritics in WP. I came late to the last one, and by now I am not sure there is any active discussion regarding it anymore. But new discussions will certainly appear, as no consensus was reached, and there are some users which strongly oppose the use of diacritics in article titles. In ictu oculi was in favour of diacritics, me too, although I would not mind that much if they end up eliminated. I mean, I am not fanatic over this, I just prefer them so correct native titles would be used, but I am OK if they end up being dropped, I would just prefer that a consensus is reached once and for all. FkpCascais (talk) 03:41, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi Joy

Ditto to FkpCascais' comments, thank you very much for improvements. I increased the article from 600 to 6,000 bytes but I am still learning on this subject. As regards diacritics, amen to "I would just prefer that a consensus is reached once and for all." I have only seen this subject for 6 weeks, .. prior to that working on composers and religious bios I hadn't encountered the issue. One month ago I would have been against use of diacritics for Serbian names (based on WP:UE and my incorrect misunderstanding Croat = Latin, Serbian = cyrillic, a misunderstanding I expect many share). In ictu oculi (talk) 23:44, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

PS I was going to give you a barnstar, but your Talk page takes so long to load :) In ictu oculi (talk) 23:44, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Adriatic Sea

Hi! Could you please take a look at the Adriatic Sea article? A user has recently inserted large blocks of unsourced text in several edits all marked as minor edits. I'm leaning on reverting them all purely on the basis of insertion of unsourced material into an article pending GAN. Is it possible to roll back all those (consecutive) edits or not?--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:32, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Huh, multiple edits make this very tough... but if there's no quick fix it will have to be done that way. Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:39, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the diff link. I think I got it all - and moved it to talk as suggested.--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:50, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Tripe soup

User:TrueHistoryPoland continues to revert on Tripe soup, not only restoring his POV but also overwriting other corrections. Can we get some uninvolved editor to take a look? I don't want to continue reverting without some community support. --Macrakis (talk) 14:22, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Counties of Croatia

Hi! Could you please advise if a split tag in the Counties of Croatia article can be simply removed or otherwise? There appears to be a consensus to keep everything as is on article's talk page.--Tomobe03 (talk) 14:01, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Forum

Could you do something about 80.61.205.20 (talk · contribs) and his rants at Talk:Bosnia and Herzegovina? I have a feeling he'll simply continue to revert the removal of his little rants as he just did. He's the same individual who ranted at Talk:Croatia#DENYING_GENOCIDE. -- ◅PRODUCER _(TALK) 21:53, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Done. Thanks. -- ◅PRODUCER _(TALK) 07:52, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Zoran Vujović (and brother)

Hi there JOY, VASCO here (hopefully now i'll get an answer),

regarding these guys' articles, i have made a few changes which have done nothing to lessen the quality of your edits, so please bear with me:

In the box (and it's quite often used by several respected users, i'm not making it up), the city (SARAJEVO in this case) and the country (YUGOSLAVIA) suffice, the rest (republics, regions, provinces) go in the body of article. I see you have relocated that stuff from the lead to the body of article and i congratulate you, i have also not touched the redirects (FPR YUGOSLAVIA is not the name of any WP article but i have not reverted it).

Perhaps we could reach a compromise? Thanks - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 15:54, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Joy. You have new messages at CapMan07008's talk page.
Message added 16:28, 11 May 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Thanks. The Determinator p t c 16:28, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Suggestion

Just a little suggestion. :) You may want to note under the nomination of Talk:Ana Ivanovic that it was MakeSense64's putting Ana Ivanovic up as a reason for Jelena Dokic which reopened the Ivanovic RM, since otherwise people may read RM in newest-first order and not make the connection. Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 17:19, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Kosovo was never a part of the Yugoslav Wars.

Kosovo was not a part of the Yugoslav Wars. Kosovo was derived from the ancient hatreds and turbulent history. The Yugoslav Wars were from Slovenia to Bosnia Herzegovina, not Kosovo. Kosovo was of a different nature. The Dayton Agreement not only ended the Bosnian War, but it ended the whole Yugoslav Wars. Where is your mind? 68.202.26.86 (talk) 01:38, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Suspicion

Are you a fascist? 68.202.26.86 (talk) 01:34, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Cowardly anon, are you an asshole? HammerFilmFan (talk) 02:24, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Kosovo War-Yugoslav Wars dispute

Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard This topic is now in the hands of users who are willing to give a third opinion on the matter.--Justice and Arbitration (talk) 19:12, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

please address-Tomislav Nikolić

War Crimes Accusations/Allegations/Controversies section vandalized

An anonymous IP (178.253.204.2, Orion Telekom-Belgrade, Serbia) removed this entire section w/o comment. There have been many versions of this section and I'm a bit worried about trying to restore it to the latest/greatest. Asking admins to try their hand at getting this 'fixed,' please. Thanks. HammerFilmFan

By the way, this popped up in my native South Carolina (USA) online paper:

By KEN RITTER, Associated Press LAS VEGAS — U.S. officials say a former Bosnian Serb police commander who had a leading role in the 1995 massacre in Srebrenica (sreh-breh-NEET-sah) has been deported back to his native country. Federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokeswoman Lori Haley says Dejan Radojkovic (DAY-jahn rahd-OSH-koh-vik) arrived Thursday in Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina, aboard a commercial airline flight from Las Vegas. The immigration and customs official says Radojkovic was accompanied by U.S. immigration agents who turned him over to Bosnia-Herzegovina law enforcement officials. Investigators say the 61-year-old Radojkovic moved to the United States in 1999 and lived in Las Vegas, where he was arrested in 2009. Prosecutors in Bosnia-Herzegovina say Radojkovic led a police brigade that rounded up about 200 Bosnian Muslim men for execution after Bosnian Serb forces overran United Nations peacekeepers in Srebrenica.

Joy, you are invited!

Maybe you can include some information on Croatian universities? I have invted you, because one of the purposes of this new project is to share information about the universities in Southeast Europe.--Comparativist1 (talk) 16:25, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

The project covers topics relating to the University of Belgrade. However, sharing information with users who post about educational institutions in the region can be valuable for everyone, at least in my opinion.--Comparativist1 (talk) 19:01, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Role of media in the Yugoslav wars

Did you get the chance to check WW's latest edit. The sources are various conspiracy theories websites and the wording can't get much more POV. From the Western propaganda section:

• The successful demonization of the Serbs, making them largely responsible for the Yugoslav wars, and as unique and genocidal killers, was one of the great propaganda triumphs of our era. (the opening quote of the section by the Serbian National Defense Council of America)
• Fikret Alić is a Bosnian Muslim famous for being used in propaganda pictures. The picture seen all across the world was that of a skinny Bosnian Muslim who in no way represented what the average Bosnian prisoner looked like. The picture was used to promote the image of genocide being commited and in order to win the world support for the Bosnian Muslim governments cause.
• After the war, this number was reduced to 2108 dead and this figure included combined Albanians and Serb civilians and soldiers. "Operation Horseshoe" was a fake operation use as a propaganda tool to demonize Yugoslav Federal Army during the Kosovo conflict. This was a crucial element of NATO's war propaganda.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 15:23, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Dragan Kovačević

Hello, I was wondering if you can help cleanup this page. The last two entries don't have articles, or meet MOS:DABRL or MOS:DABMENTION. Can you help them make this? Otherwise, the entries will end up deleted. Thanks, Boleyn (talk) 12:30, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Name

Seen this? 95.211.77.194 (talk) 18:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Re: Donna Vekić

Vekić is a member of the Croatia Fed Cup team. Source As per WP:NTENNIS, any player who has "competed in the Fed Cup" is notable. Since I had written this and provided the external link, would you restore the article? If you like, I can add an inline-citation to remove any doubt. Jared Preston (talk) 12:56, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

?

What? 68.205.95.242 (talk) 20:03, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Teharje camp

The lead misinforms - Germans were imprisoned after WWII.Xx236 (talk) 07:29, 4 June 2012 (UTC) I have rewritten but my English is poor.Xx236 (talk) 07:40, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Move

Could you move Privlaka, Zadar county to Privlaka, Zadar County? GregorB (talk) 17:18, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

(Not Joy) Done. Jenks24 (talk) 21:44, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Croats of Vojvodina

I merged that article with Croats of Serbia as you proposed here. However, an new user just recreated article Croats of Vojvodina (see: [9]), which is now obvious POV fork since all info from there was moved to Croats of Serbia. So, what should be done here? PANONIAN 12:06, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

My point was: it was you who proposed merging and who posted merge tag. Sincerely, I do not have an opinion whether these articles should be merged or not. Since you proposed merging, you should also say your opinion whether we should merge these articles again or we should split their content. User:Tnoucc reverted article to version which still have proposed merge tag that was added by you, so it is you who either should revert User:Tnoucc either you should remove tag that you placed. I do not want to remove tag that you placed there and I cannot revert User:Tnoucc because I would then violate my history topic ban (page have a "History" section). You should decide what should be done and you should perform action that would support your decision. Note that both solutions are OK for me. PANONIAN 14:51, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Bloody Christmas (1920 merge).

Hi Joy. I have contributed to the talk page of the Bloody Christmas in an argument against the merging issue. As of recent I have created articles on the build up and events surrounding the Rijeka Campaign, and will soon be creating further articles specific for the Rijeka Campaign -- If a merge was to occur, it would be better suited for these soon to be created articles, rather than the Italian Regency of Carnaro, as the Impresa di Fiume is only one small issue on the run up to the Bloody Christmas of 1920.

I may undo the merge option depending upon response regarding this issue, as it will soon be member to a series of articles, and is more important on its own, and will not meet the merge criteria (although as it stands, it does not fully meet this critera).--^D Namtar 22:07, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Joy, just to alert you of my response on the Bloody Christmas article, and thank you for your constructive feedback. I will get to creating new articles when time permits.--^D Namtar 10:31, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Accusations and ad hominems

Joy, I've just noticed this edit summary. While I don't mind your edit - at all - I am again irked to find that you're referring to my actions as "censorship". This is the latest in a growing list of completely baseless and unprovoked ad hominems that seem to be motivated by nothing other than personal resentment. I'd like to see what exactly is the editing pattern that you object to. Hopefully I might be able to explain myself, and, just maybe, I can stop my getting thrown quip every now an again. -- Director (talk) 14:55, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar

	The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
	For your continuous hard work on introducing quality, logic and order to Wikipedia in general and WikiProject Croatia in particular, I hereby award you The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar. GregorB (talk) 18:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Gibanice

Pretpostavljam da nema razloga za spajanje članaka, ako se ne slažeš molim izjasni se. SpeedyGonsales 18:06, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Template move

Can you tidy up after your move? The double redirects need fixing. Thanks — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:32, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, dammit, sorry, that slipped by because the move first timed out on the Squid, and later I was looking at the wrong WhatLinksHere output - I clicked the "redirects only" output, [10] which showed only Template:WikiProject_Military_History, but not the others. Anyway, fixed now, thanks for the reminder. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:51, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks ... and can you archive your talk page :) It's a bit ridiculous. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:47, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Peaces of Pressburg

Thanks for sorting out the wikiprojects for the various Peaces of Pressburg.—Ketil Trout (^<><!) 20:02, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Re: hrcak URLs

Hi! Thanks for the tip - didn't realize there was that option too. I wasn't really going after translation of the summaries (but thought to include some info in English since it's there anyway), rather I was trying to fix broken links to virtually all hrčak server journals - probably caused by a "reorganization".--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Hydrography of Croatia template

Hi! I noticed you did bulk of the Template:Hydrography of Croatia content and as I was adding Ombla, I could not help but wonder wouldn't it be better to group wetlands with lakes (Kopački Rit only at the moment) if they are to be grouped with something. I assume most wetlands will contain some (small) lakes anyway, while estuaries and canyons have little to do with wetlands. What do you think about such a move?--Tomobe03 (talk) 20:17, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Map of Ombla

Hi! I was thinking about including the map, and then opted for a provisional solution now in the article. My dilemma is this: should there be a map of the Ombla (all of its 30 m of course) and Rijeka Dubrovačka ria with a reference inset indicating where the area is located in Croatia - similar to the former counties map in the Counties of Croatia but using Open Street Map or something like that; or would a map of Ombla's drainage basin be of greater use. The latter would require drawing the map from scratch (I'd do it of course) using a reliable source (that's already in the article sourcing). The former could be used in future Rijeka Dubrovačka article as well. Of course, both could be made, but I'm not quite sure both should be used in the Ombla article. Any thoughts?--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:21, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Would p.40 map in this document be something like the map you were referring to?--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:03, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

The plant is supposed to be adjacent to the present source - the underground dam would be about 100 m deep inside the rock, and the plant (headrace tunnel, turbines, switching etc. in between the dam and the rock face. I did not include the specific information in the article because I feared it would be WP:CRYSTAL as it is not quite definite that the plant is going to be built at all. Anyway, I'm afraid a hundred metres won't register on a map showing that big an area. The dam is supposed to be 1.5km wide - and can register on the map - but I don't have a reliable source on its alignment (yet).--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:31, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Just added the map but without exact orientation of the 1.5km wide dam simply because I cannot source it accurately right now. I'll try to find that info and then I'll add that to the map. Cheers!--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:33, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Should the map request be removed from the Talk:Ombla, or should it be left there until the present map is updated with exact orientation of the dam?--Tomobe03 (talk) 20:56, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

There was an act of massive vandalism on the Serbia and Montenegro article, I don't know how to undo it, could you?

The article Serbia and Montenegro just had a massive vandal attack with two edits. I do not know how to revert two edits, could you revert those edits?--R-41 (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Operation Rosselsprung

You deleted the hatnotes on the two Operation Rosselsprung pages, saying they were disambiguated here, but didn’t bother to put in a link to that page.
You need to make up your mind. If you disagree with the hatnote linking to the second page (which is perfectly in order, BTW, according to the WP:NAMB guideline you quoted) then you need one to link to the dab page. Or, you need to leave the existing hatnotes alone.
As it is, you are in conflict with User:Peacemaker67 (and me, now) so I suggest you discuss the matter on one of the talk pages (here, for example) and come to an agreement. Xyl 54 (talk) 14:01, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

PS have you considered archiving? A talk page with 800 items (nearly 700kB!) on it is ridiculous, not to mention inconvenient and unwieldy. Xyl 54 (talk) 14:07, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

minor edit

Thanks for informing me about it. It looked minor to me as I was editing.--Rovoobo oboovoR 22:45, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Cyril Zhivkovich

Hi Joy! Would you like to pay attention on this article. From several days there is active User:58.252.196.3 and his IP - sock User:59.33.247.4. The first one, you have blocked a time ago for his vandalism. I think the case now is nearly the same. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 06:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Vinkovci Treasure

Hi Joy, it seems there's been an interesting archaeological discovery in Vinkovci - see Vinkovci Treasure. Might be worth a corresponding article on the Croatian Wikipedia? Prioryman (talk) 23:01, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

An edit of 2005

Hello, Joy. You have new messages at Talk:Great Turkish War.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 09:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Elizabeth of Bosnia

Hi! I stumbled on the Elizabeth of Bosnia article and thought that it may qualify for inclusion in WP:CRO, but I'm not sure. Could you have a look? Cheers!--Tomobe03 (talk) 01:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, there may be a whole category of articles in that respect. I'm not sure if all kings of Hungary between 1102 (or 1095) and 1527 did have that much impact on history of Croatia, but they were, at least in terms of title, kings of Croatia. It's not exactly the same situation, but Elizabeth II article is a part of WP:New Zealand too, so maybe we should include these in WP:CRO as well? Of course, beyond the Parliament of Cetin, the focus would switch to the new ruling house - in that vein I noticed that Maria Theresa is a part of WPs Romania and Belgium, so that may not be a unique situation to include her in WP:CRO as well. What do you think?--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:24, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

After another look, George V is not a part of WP:NZ, Coloman is already in WP:CRO, Stephen II of Hungary is not. Apparently the subject is quite messy and cannot be definitively ruled upon (pun intended) based on existing practice alone. Is there a guideline somewhere on that? I can appreciate that Coloman did have a great impact on history of Croatia, and maybe Stephen II did not - could we start from there perhaps and for instance decide that Béla IV of Hungary belongs to WP:CRO unlike Stephen II? Should we in effect include ones who directly impacted Croatia's history and ignore ones who were "only" kings/queens etc. with little direct involvement with present day or contemporary territory of Croatia?--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:47, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. Had a look at the List of rulers of Hungary, at least at ones up to the end of the 17th century and followed links to specific articles. Assuming the articles do mention everything worth mentioning the following seems to be the case:

Definite direct links exist

• Ladislaus I of Hungary
• Coloman, King of Hungary
• Béla IV of Hungary
• Charles I of Hungary
• Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor
• Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor
• Ladislaus of Naples

Some direct links exist, but not as significant

• Stephen III of Hungary
• Béla III of Hungary
• Mary, Queen of Hungary

Some direct links, may appear unspecific

• Emeric, King of Hungary
• Andrew II of Hungary
• Andrew III of Hungary
• Charles III of Naples
• Matthias, Holy Roman Emperor

Ancillary items, listed anyway for later reveiw

• Charles Martel of Anjou
• Elizabeth of Bosnia

I am inclined to tag some (possibly all) of these as parts of WP:CRO, but I'd rather if you could take a look at them too. I assume project importance should be "low" in all the cases.--Tomobe03 (talk) 12:07, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Moved discussion to WT:CRO per suggestion. Cheers!

Territorial Organisation

Wasn't done. Fixing redirects.--Degen Earthfast (talk) 11:31, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi

Hi there. I saw the move to David Savić, supporting Gabinho's, it's been reverted, but if you'll excuse me I've added it to the several moves among WP:RM among the very final "English names" among the 100,000s of BLPs. Seems a better way to go, more permanent. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:50, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Credo Reference Update & Survey (your opinion requested)

Credo Reference, who generously donated 400 free Credo 250 research accounts to Wikipedia editors over the past two years, has offered to expand the program to include 100 additional reference resources. Credo wants Wikipedia editors to select which resources they want most. So, we put together a quick survey to do that:

• Link to Survey (should take between 5-10 minutes): http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/N8FQ6MM

It also asks some basic questions about what you like about the Credo program and what you might want to improve.

At this time only the initial 400 editors have accounts, but even if you do not have an account, you still might want to weigh in on which resources would be most valuable for the community (for example, through WikiProject Resource Exchange).

Also, if you have an account but no longer want to use it, please leave me a note so another editor can take your spot.

If you have any other questions or comments, drop by my talk page or email me at wikiocaasi@yahoo.com. Cheers! Ocaasi ^{t | c} 17:21, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 13

Hi. When you recently edited Vanja Udovičić, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Serie A1 (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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colossal waste of time

Hi Joy, you asked "Is this tennis-induced colossal waste of time move-a-thon ever going to end? :( --Joy [shallot] (talk) 11:25, 13 July 2012 (UTC)" ... well I could not bother and leave these living persons anglicized if you'd prefer. :) but actually the only 7 I can see left without a "Dj" complication are Toni Androic, Ana Ivanovic of course, then the five French players stuck at Talk:Stephane Huet.In ictu oculi (talk) 12:10, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

There are actually non-Serbian/Croatian/tennis WP:RM ongoing as well. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:17, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

move request

Hi! Could you move Theocracy of Montenegro to the earlier name Prince-Bishopric of Montenegro, because its a redirect and cannot be moved.--Zoupan 22:09, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Cheers

Thanks Joy. Peacemaker67 (talk) 13:31, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

for what? the answer is simple, ratjoy: for doing vandalism like a dog...who doesn't care about wikipedia but only to "bite" ip & supposed socks in order to help 'Croatia uber alles'! (;D) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.77.103.125 (talk) 18:41, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Agree. 70.118.102.247 (talk) 17:41, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

D'oh

Could you move the I Corps (Bosnia and Herzegovina) article either back to where it was or to "1st Corps of the Army of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina"? I was trying to make the Corps article names consistent when I accidently put the edit summary in article name move. -- ◅PRODUCER _(TALK) 19:21, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Move "Axis occupation of X during World War II" to "Axis occupation of X"

Gdje si srećo, mind moving

• Axis occupation of Serbia during World War II to Axis occupation of Serbia
• Axis occupation of Greece during World War II to Axis occupation of Greece

As Axis was during World War II, there is no need for it.--Zoupan 00:23, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Well it's kind of your username..? But no problems, I will not adress you like that.--Zoupan 07:19, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I threw it in with my request as a joke, but I get it, it does sound a bit cocky..--Zoupan 07:52, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Central Croatia

Hi! Could you please take a look at the Talk:Central Croatia. I tried reasoning, I tried arguing, I offered sources, and I see no point in saying or doing anything further. Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 22:52, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi again. Apparently the discussion on the talk page brought nothing as much of the page was blanked (diff) against sources and with no consensus to otherwise. I don't know if that constitutes vandalism or not, but should this be reported somewhere?--Tomobe03 (talk) 14:40, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry to bother you again, but this is getting out of hand - it appears that Direktor is bent on convincing everyone that Croatia has no geographic region rather historic ones. This has now spread to Slavonia as well (here) I don't know what he's got against geography but I'm really getting frustrated with this stubborn denial of existence of such benign things as geographic regions fully supported by scholarly sources just because of stubborn sayso of another user. Would you recommend a RfC or something else because I really don't need to spend a couple of days convincing someone that Slavonia exists on a current geographic map, that Kingdom of Slavonia does not, and that its year 2012 out there.--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:53, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi. I'm just about ready to give up this... now, there's claim that Slavonia is not a geographic region at all... I see no point to bother about all this when unreasonable people are ready to ignore sources and push POV accusing me of owning articles for contradicting. I got 1 active FA and an active GA review and 3 pending GAs - should I post at the WP:CRO talk for volunteers to take over those (if anyone cares) or just someplace else as this is taking way too much time? There's no point in writing based on sources when there's no way to convince people to read sources. What do you suggest?--Tomobe03 (talk) 18:01, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Don't know. It's nauseating to have to virtually beg people to read sources and then having to quote to them only for them to completely ignore or dismiss sources for no valid reason. And now you suggest I do that all over again. Virtually identical discussion happened at the Central Croatia, only to spread to Slavonia. I really have the strongest urge just to let go and forget the whole thing. I'm arguing over nothing for two days when I should be doing something IRL and responding to a FAR and a GAR, but right now I see no point even in getting the two to FA/GA when a POV-pusher will only feel invited to adapt them to their beliefs of what the article should be.--Tomobe03 (talk) 18:13, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I posted at the DRN, now what?

User:71.178.108.23

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Peacemaker67 (talk) 01:49, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Joy, A heads up that this and similar edits are being discussed at ANI, your name hasn't been mentioned but several Users names are there in the edit histories. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:40, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Department of International Military Co-operation

Your conclusion seems to be the same as mine... GregorB (talk) 18:39, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Eborg

Hello,

No, this is not my account nor do I have anything to do with it.

As far as I know, Mario Ostojić was deleted as it did not pass Wikipedia's notability. I think the article should be kept under the condition that evidence can be provided to support the claim that he played in a fully professional league.

All the best,

Tempo21 (talk) 19:04, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi again

Rather than a topic ban would you consider a limited/targeted specific-edit-ban that just stops Fyunck edit-warring his lede back on those specific 100x BLPs? That is what I have proposed to Koertefa, Courcelles and Handsomefella. ? In ictu oculi (talk) 08:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

This note to you has been linked by User LittleBenW on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive765 as canvassing. Given that they had already expressed a view and that I'm trying to take it down a peg from what you mentioned (not that I don't agree, with the sentiment) I feel it's appropriate. However, I think Handsomefella's appeal to ANI is going nowhere - vandalizing a 100x not very notable/visible East European biographies with this xenophobic nonsense is, I can completely understand, very well down the list of stupidity ANI has to deal with on a daily basis. Uz najbolje želje toplim In ictu oculi (talk) 12:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

vandalism

Discrimination and hate speech against minorities at wikipedia User:CrnoBelo [11], [12], [13], [14].... please reaction--Sokac121 (talk) 19:34, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

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Molise Croats

Saw that you were active once on the Molise Croats article, so feel free to drop a line on this section[15]. There are some problems with the sources, but I can't find out which claim is the more questionable one. Either the Molise Croats article is wrong or the claim on Serbs of Italy is unsubstantiated. Btw could you please translate По господину Рубертнеу, вели госп. Асколи ондје, први Срби — или како их онамо обично зову Schiavoni или Dalmati — дошли су у Молизе заедно с Арбанасима (Албанези) што их је онамо довео Скендербег. to me? Antidiskriminator claims that this quote, which he added proves that the ultimate source is Ascoli. Is that the case?--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 22:20, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

re: Barnstar

Hi! Thanks for the barnstar, just saw the notification, so sorry about the delay.--Tomobe03 (talk) 08:49, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Message

Hi, I've just seen this message on my talk page:

• Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ali Muratovic. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:15, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't understand. Can you throw some light on it for me. Thanks, Denisarona (talk) 12:02, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

I was about to add a comment but I've noticed that the IP address from last September has 'disappeared'? Denisarona (talk) 16:54, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

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Roman Catholic dioceses in the Balkans

Are you proposing to delete 'Roman Catholic dioceses in Nordic Europe?' as both a category and a list? Every category has a list. This list permits you to find the Catholic dioceses in the entire region, which is especially useful given the recent border changes. Benkenobi18 (talk) 03:00, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Both lists perform their function adequately by grouping together dioceses as the Catholic church organizes them. There is no other category grouping all the Nordic Europe dioceses together. Benkenobi18 (talk) 07:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Every category in this section has a list so that people can navigate both through the category and the list as they prefer. If you want to rename them - feel free. Those names have been there for many years now. Benkenobi18 (talk) 07:21, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

North Korea

Joy what is the problem?! I didn't had any attention to "attack" Josipović. What is the problem in sending condolence? I think it was a good diplomatic move. I was writing about diplomatic relations of two countries. You consider the diplomatic relations with North Korea an insult? I don't, I really, really don't. And I don't understand your move at all. Why did you erased the article? I also want to add that this... is very suprising. You don't like North Korea, that's fine. I don't have any problems with that. And please explain, how is possible that Josipović's diplomatic move is an "attack"... I'm really confused about this. You thought I want to attack him?! --Wüstenfuchs 14:00, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, you observed the article from a wrong angle. Since the establishment of the diplomatic relations with the North Korea, you had this treaty about the improvment of the relations and Josipović's condolence. Tell me, what would you write if in some case you wrote this article? You would avoid this part? I found this article rather interesting as North Korea is... somewhat unknown country. What I think about Josipović's move? It's like sending condolence to the people of Poland or Germany. North Korea has it's problems al right, but diplomatic relations with North Korea aren't bad thing at all. What about Putin? Yesterday Russia wrote off 90% of North Koreas debt, and you would, I guess, consider this a criticitism? Why is an official condolence a critic to you? Why would anyone in the world think that this is a wrong, bad move. Oh, and about "rather suprising", it was in the source. Maybe you didn't read it. It's not that I made up the thing. --Wüstenfuchs 14:27, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

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Re: Central Croatia, Slavonia, Dalmatia

Hi! Thanks for the heads-up. I took the opportunity to point out a thing or two as well, if you don't mind.--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:27, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Yugoslav Wars

Could you review some of the latest edit of 23_editor on Battle of Sarajevo?. His edit about the numbers of combatants seems highly questionable (70,000 Bosnians vs. 18,000 Serbs).--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 20:22, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Talk:School of Dental Medicine, University of Zagreb

Please take a look - I suppose the article might be on your watchlist anyway. GregorB (talk) 18:33, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Notification

In a 2007 arbitration case, administrators were given the power to impose discretionary sanctions on any user editing Balkans-related articles in a disruptive way. If you engage in further inappropriate behaviour in this area, you may be placed under sanctions including blocks, a revert limitation or an article/topic ban. Thank you. (I know you're familiar with ARBMAC, but I'm kind of at the end of my rope here. Please stop posting personal attacks at every turn.) -- Director (talk) 13:27, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

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Re:anti-Croatian sentiment

Ok, I'm sorry, but my first selected sentence was definitely not an anti-Croatian statement. Otherwise, I love Croatia and the Croatian people. But I still don't understant, why should we use a Croatian name variant for a Hungarian people who held other offices before the Banate of Croatia. I hope the article John Both de Bajna will not be move to Ivan Bot. --Norden1990 (talk) 10:38, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Croatian–Ottoman Wars

I answered to your statement. Bye, AndreaFox ^{Knock here...} 10:56, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Consulate General of Serbia in Vukovar

Thanks for spotting that: I didn't see the deletion discussion, so was unaware I was recreating a deleted article. I've now changed it back to a redirect. -- The Anome (talk) 16:50, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Notice of ArbMac you sent to Norden1990

I have seen that you sent a notice of ArbMac to Norden1990. However, you should know that when you make content related edits in a certain topic area in Wikipedia, you must leave your admin-robe behind there. How does it look like that "This notice is issued in view of your edits to Emerik Derenčin" when you edit the article in question? So that this notice is not like it had been issued by an administrator as you are an involved admin there. And if anyone should fill a request for arbitration for Norden1990, (btw it is an unlikely event) , said person can't refer to the fact that Norden1990 was noticed of ArbMac by admin Joy.--Nmate (talk) 15:23, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

--Okay.--Nmate (talk) 06:36, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Possible sock

Having seen already too late the Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ali Muratovic/Archive, I wanted to discuss with you that I suspect that Special:Contributions/58.173.108.6 is also Ali´s sock but I am not 100% sure. You blocked him already, and I reverted him on several occasions and even asked him please to add edit summaries, which he never did. Bosnian and Islamic topics, removal of red-links, removal of referecences to Serbia/Croatia while leaving Bosnia, etc. Hmmm...

You know, Ali did answered on one occasion. It was still in the begining, and he answered to me and to LadyofShallot. I tried to add that info to the sock investigation, as his answers were quite peculiar and demonstrative of his POV, but I added it here not knowing that once the cases are archived no one should add comments anymore, but I started from the principle that he made so many socks that the issue is likely not over, so more comments could be usefull.

Anyway, hey, you archived your talkpage! You broke your own tradition of possibly having the logest talkpage on en.wiki. Congrats! :) FkpCascais (talk) 22:02, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

References

As for Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg), how many references are needed? --Silverije (talk) 12:11, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Stana Katic / Katić

Hi. I reverted your mentioning of the name Katić in the article on Stana Katic. There has been a prolonged discussion on the article's talk page about whether the article should include either Katić or Катић, and the current consensus is that these forms should not be included. In my opinion, WP:R#PLA does not apply in this case, since anyone who might try looking up "Stana Katić" is already going to have some familiarity with Serbo-Croatian orthography, so they won't be astonished in the slightest when they get redirected to an article with a diacritic-free title. If you still disagree with my having reverted here, I would invite you to get involved in the discussion on the article's talk page. — Richwales 14:55, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Mismatched titles

I've found two cases in which the article title and the corresponding talk page title are mismatched and linked with redirects: Croatia–United States relations, Croatian Democratic Alliance of Slavonia and Baranja. Not sure how to fix it, could you take a look? GregorB (talk) 11:26, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Here is one more: Gaj's Latin alphabet. GregorB (talk) 22:21, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Dear Joy can I have your assistance

The user Wüstenfuchs is behaving disruptively towards the Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina article, removing sourced information on the early settlements of Croat tribes in the 7th century (John Fine, Google books link), and persistently mentioning the Stecci in the context of the first Croatian king Tomislav, on one hand constituting an anachronism, and on the other, a flawed and feeble attempt to somehow prove the "Croatianess" of the Stecci. In addition he insists on advancing the claim that Tomislav's kingdom covered whole of Bosnia as an indisputable fact (which it is not), and has repeatedly removed a link neatly embedded by me to a well-sourced discussion about this on the page about king Tomislav. I think his comment that "Croats settled in Bosnia and Herzegovina as well, and they inhabitet majority of it. Most of Bosnia was under Croatia" pretty much explains his biased and predetermined view on things. Please visit Wüstenfuchs' and my talk page for further information. Thank you. Praxis Icosahedron (talk) 18:11, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Joy, the problem with the Bosnian Croats article appears to have settled, but the disruptive and stubborn ways of Wustenfuchs's editorial style seems to be a recurrent theme. He most recently reverted the improved Bosniaks infobox made by me, probably because he's on the war path to prove the Croat origin of all Bosniaks (not least Safvet-beg Basagic). His user name reference to the desert fox Erwin Rommel is also very disturbing (NDH?) Praxis Icosahedron (talk) 20:11, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation possibly needed

Hi! I'm not sure about this, but perhaps it would be wise to create disambiguation page about different "Pandurs" after all. There is the Trenck's unit (covered by the Pandurs now exclusively), there are late 18th century frontier guard (facing the Ottoman empire) unit type (no article yet) - which have absolutely nothing to do with the Trenck, except shared name, there are "security" guards, policing areas in Croatia, Slavonia, Dalmatia, maybe elsewhere, and there were Pandurs in Romania, currently covered by Tudor Vladimirescu. As I said, I'm not too sure about how to proceed (there may be other uses too, which I'm not aware of), so could you please pitch in? Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 08:22, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Independence of Croatia

Hi! I had a chance to look at the Independence of Croatia article recently and added a few missing refs to leave no paras unsupported. The article looks as if it has a decent shot at WP:GAN, perhaps missing some information in the lead per WP:LEAD and a copyedit beforehand. Would you be interested in taking that up?--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:58, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

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WP:AE notification

There is a thread at WP:AE which relates to matters you have been involved in. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 13:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Joy. You have new messages at Salvio giuliano's talk page.
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Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 09:15, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

E-novine

There's another discussion at the Boris Malagurski article and at RSN regarding the reliability of E-novine which you were previously involved in February. Thought you might be interested. --◅ PRODUCER (TALK) 15:18, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Producer, after "Phone a friend", you have the "50:50" and "Ask the audience" lifelines left. --UrbanVillager (talk) 15:36, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Reverts

Hi Joy, can you look into these reverts? The Kulenovic's are known self declared Croats so I don't see why would the reverts stay. Here it was chanded into Bosniak and the ref I provided was gone without explanation: [16] and here categories were changed and deleted: [17]. I don't wan't to start edit war there with that user as it seems that was the case a few days ago with him and user Wüstenfuchs: [18].--Rovoobo Talk 09:07, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Block

Hi,

I noticed that you blocked one user. The block was justified. I believe that his editing is mostly very constructive with numerous positive contributions and that if he violated wp policies it was not because of bad faith or tendentious editing but rather because of the lack of experience and knowledge about wp policies. Maybe it would be better (in future) to try more patient approach and to invest more energy in carefully explaining his mistakes before sanctions. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 13:25, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

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Jasenovac-HRT

The numbers mentioned by HRT page represent only the victims from the territory of Peoples Republic of Crotia, so it does not include Bosnia and Herzegovina, Srem/Srijem and other parts of NDH. The current wording is WP:OR, so you have to correct it, or it will have to be removed. --Tritomex (talk) 14:12, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Template

Hi! I see you have deleted Roman Pannonia in the "history of Hungary" template. I do not understand your reasoning. I am just wondering you should delete "Roman Dacia" at History of Romania template as well, because you can find that subject in the appropriate sections -for example- at page of History of Transylvania, or page of Origin or Romanians. Fakirbakir (talk) 10:37, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

I've seen this conversation and I was wondering if the title History of Hungary before the Hungarians is anachronistic or not Irji2012 (talk) 11:00, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Some users do not want to go back to consensus (pre-dispute) version and are making a revert war https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:History_of_Hungary&action=history Irji2012 (talk) 11:14, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Bormalagurski etc.

Thanks a lot for helping out with my mangled links to Serbian Wikipedia. Opbeith (talk) 17:57, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Battle of Vukovar

Please explain which changes exactly do you consider to be "inexplicable" that would justify your decision to revert my recent edits to the article Battle of Vukovar.23 editor (talk) 19:49, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

?

Prvo, ime mestu je promenjeno u Vrginmost i ostavljeno je da je u opštini Gvozd , za sada. Samim tim gde je problem? Drugo, nemoj da pretiš, nije ti ovo hrvatska wiki nego wiki na engleskom. --Boris Godunov (talk) 19:36, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

RE: Ante Gotovina

yEAH, not sure what happened there. looks liek its doneLihaas (talk) 09:03, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Croatia-related articles page

You have proposed deleting the page Index of Croatia-related articles and thankfully sent me a message about it. Since I saw no discussion page on the deletion proposal, I have put a note on the "talk page" of that specific article for comments. werldwayd (talk) 09:58, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

can you get this Wustenfuchs guy to PLEASE use edit summaries?

He massively edited - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mladen_Markač&action=history - w/o any summaries. Very aggravating. HammerFilmFan (talk) 10:24, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Think we have a prob. I left a msg on his user talk. The next thing I know, he's just reverted w/o a summary some info I just added to the article. Please see last entry or so in above. Thank you.HammerFilmFan (talk) 10:58, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 19

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Re: Pandurs & talk page archive

Hi Joy, its good to talk with you again! Regarding the Pandurs, maybe I will create new stub articles using the informations that I added and then removed from the Trenck's Pandurs article, but I am only temporarily back to wiki, so maybe it would be better if somebody else do this. The same thing goes for 'talk page archive', there is no point of archiveing my talk page since I (and other users) won't use it often. Regards, Kebeta (talk) 12:05, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Gotovina and HVO

I noticed you asked me to refrence this... I ask you to give me some time... I'll re-write his military career... It is funny to see that in the article there's more space for his time spent in ICTY then on the battlefield... --Wüstenfuchs 13:48, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Joy. You have new messages at Template talk:Infobox government cabinet.
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Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:34, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Operation Storm

I see you've been involved with the article recently, so I have a question. Tomobe and I are currently doing a B-Class assessment drive, so - given the situation with the recent dispute about Operation Storm - I considered reviewing it too and leaving comments in the assessment summary page. Is now the right moment, or you are planning do to further work on the article? GregorB (talk) 14:40, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay. Doesn't look that bad to me - there are problems, to be sure, but not necessarily of magnitude that would fail the article on WP:BCLASS criteria, which are of course still significantly below what is required for a GA. (Caveat: haven't actually analyzed the entire article.) Anyway, I might still revisit the article for a review once B-Class drive is finished (in a month or so). GregorB (talk) 09:17, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Bošnjani

Hi Joy, thanks for tidying up the article in question, I've been meaning to do it myself but never got around to it. Despite your clarification I still find it difficult to grasp what Natalino had in mind with his edits, and what the whole deal about the "Serb ethnonym" is about? I would love to understand the point of it, as it is now I am not really sure it has a relevant place in the article whatsoever. Praxis Icosahedron (talk) 00:34, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

The De Administrando Imperio was written in the mid 10th century so it can't have possibly referred to any date latter than that. The DAI describes the Serbs as settling in the 7th century the regions of Southern Serbia (Rascia), Zahumlje, Trebinje, Pagania, and Konavli, while Bosnia proper is not mentioned in regard to this period and would remain a terra incognita (presumably ruled by local chiefs, of unknown ethnicity) until the late 9th century (Map) when Petar Gojniković succeeded to annex the valley of Bosna after defeating one local Tisemir about whom very little is known. John VA Fine also corroborates that following the settlement of Serb and Croat tribes in the region the rest of Bosnia seemed to be a region between Serb and Croat rule. Now when it comes to the early 10th century in Bosnia we are looking at something of a "break-through" in the Serb rule of the region with the integration of Bosnia (extent unknown) into the short-lived state of Časlav Klonimirović (927-960) after which Bosnia would disintegrate from Serb rule. In the DAI, which was thus written in the period of Časlav's rule, Bosnia is nowhere described as a region "inhabited by Serbs", in fact no unequivocal information is given on the character of the population in Bosnia of this time. I am therefore not certain on how to interpret your understanding of the sentence Bosona as one of two small regions behind the hills that the Serbs inhabit, nearby Rascia which I have quite frankly never heard of before and would, in my opinion, constitute an interpretation rather than anything else. In fact I am almost positive that such a formulation is to be found nowhere in the DAI (Read here where a balanced discussion of Bosnia's mention in the DAI also is provided). Regardless, I am sure the people in this region were familiar with the phenomenon "Serb" as I am sure they were also with the "Croat" one, and most certainly also "Bošnjanin" (this term couldn't have exactly popped out of nowhere in the Charter of Kulin Ban). So to sum up, it is obvious that the Serb ethnonym in some sense probably circulated in Bosnia both prior to and after the Charter of Kulin Ban, but I fail to see how this bears any relevance whatsoever on the development of the term Bošnjani. If anything the paragraph on prior Serb rule and the Serb ethnonym tends to suggest that "Bošnjanin" emerged as a regional twist of "Serb". What I however primarily don't understand is the sentence At the same time, all Bosnian referrals to the Serbian medieval realm are exclusively Rascian. All "Serb-" references in domestic Bosnian documentary sources are either early self-referrals so I can't say you've really answered my actual question. In my opinion the whole excursus on the Serb ethnonym is irrelevant and only serves to confuse. If someone wished to underline (whether it was you or Natalino) that the Serb scholarship considers the term Bošnjanin as a regional designation for Serb tribes in Bosnia such a discussion would fit better under a "controversies" headline, however the disputed nature of the term "Bošnjanin" is already mentioned above so I wouldn't necessarily see a new section appropriate either. Praxis Icosahedron (talk) 13:22, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Basically, the article is not one about whether medieval Bosnians were actually Serbs (or Croats or a separate group). If anything such elaborations belong better in the Bosnians (or even Bosniaks) article, naturally cited, and preferably outlined as a (nationalist) controversy given the contentious character of the matter. Well for one, Bašić clearly explains that the reference to Bosona in the DAI is a matter of interpretation, whereas you have unfortunately presented the interpretation most frequently found in Serb historiography as a seemingly indisputable fact (while De Administrando Imperio puts it within baptized Serbia). I will have to elaborate this in the near future using Bašić. Moreover, the assumption of the existence of early "Serb" self-referrals is also a matter of interpretation and great controversy (not least the Charter of Ban Matej Ninoslav), but is unfortunately presented once more as an indisputable fact. There is no doubt you have clarified the text and brought objectivity to what Natalino wanted to say, but the problem is rather with Natalino bringing this up in the first place. Also the fact that citations are lacking altogether doesn't make it any better. I would want to remove the paragraph in question until I have the time to write up something based sources (e.g. Bašić) Praxis Icosahedron (talk) 14:06, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I never doubted your good faith Joy. It is truly a joy to have you around. No worries :) Praxis Icosahedron (talk) 14:24, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Just one last thing Joy, I reviewed the revision history for the article and noticed that the segment in question originates from an apparent anonymous POV pusher [19]. Following this user's contribution on the 5th of February 2011 the POV material was consistently maintained by user Biblbroks until Natalino's edits. Seeing the segment was introduced by a POV pusher it confirms my fears that its sole purpose was to claim the original Slav inhabitants of Bosnia as Serbs eventually transforming into Bosnjani. Needless to say, we are looking at the core of nationalist Serb historiography based on one-sided interpretations and assumptions of history. Praxis Icosahedron (talk) 15:19, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Luka Misetic

I know about the diacritics, that's why I moved redirected the page in the first place... But, how do you move a page on the already existing page (like you moved Misetic's talk page). I tried to do so with the article, but I previously created a redirect "Luka Misetic" so I was unable to, so I redirected Mišetić to Misetic. --Wüstenfuchs 11:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I totaly forgot... even now I don't remember. But in future I'll report that to admin. --Wüstenfuchs 11:49, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

recommendation advice

User (and I think you know who I mean) is removing very reliably sourced info simply due to WP:OWN or WP:I DON'T LIKE IT - if warnings do not work, first step - ANI? or ______ ? Never had to take this step before, usually the articles I am interested in/editing are watched over by more than one Admin and they usually open them. Not sure what the escalation "politeness" should be.  :-) Thanks.

A small request

This was kumioko's edit and unfortunately you - in subsequent edits - entered your comment in between the paragraph's of Kumioko which is frankly very confusing. Would you be so kind as to shift your valid comments below kumioko's comment? This will help us tremendously in maintaining a steady flow. Thanks, Mr T^{(Talk?) (New thread?)} 15:50, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Joy. You have new messages at Mrt3366's talk page.
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Mr T^{(Talk?) (New thread?)} 16:41, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Ancient Portugal

This is an automated message from MadmanBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Ancient Portugal, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://portuguesecitizenship.blogspot.com/2010/12/history-of-portugal-roman-lusitania-and.html.

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Help needed

I'm sorry to ask you this, but, few days ago I redirected Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina to Bosnia and Herzegovina article... can you please move this talk page there... This was before you told me about moving the pages.

Thanks. --Wüstenfuchs 16:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Vladimir Petković

Hi Joy, can this stay [20]? That user inserted and Serbian without a source and now that insertion looks like its supported with a source, at the end of the sentence, where it is not mentioned at all but only that he holds Swiss and Croatian passports. In his interview which is source [2] where he says that he is Swiss and Bosnian Croat from Sarajevo (Ich bin Schweizer und bosnischer Kroate aus Sarajevo) he also doesn't mention any Serbian.--Rovoobo Talk 23:22, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Also, there seems to be a number of his other insertions, deletions, changes to articles without sources...[21][22][23][24][25] [26] could be more didn't look further.--Rovoobo Talk 23:57, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Your integration

Hi Joy, I was looking to find who added references for Srbosjek as the nickname of the Gräwiso knife so to ask the user(s) who added them at which pages in some of those referenced books can it be found under that name and have come accross your integration [27] of the Srbosjek article in Jasenovac concentration camp article. Is there an archive of that ex-article Srbosjek so to look further who actually added those references? I'm interested to find out when actually the nickname Srbosjek occurred first for that Gräwiso knife and if surviving inmates of Jasenovac called it like that in their published books. It started to interest me when I came accross Dr Nikola Nikolić's book ("Jasenovački logor smrti") in which he doesn't call the knife Srbosjek.--Rovoobo Talk 10:15, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Your move

Hi Joy. (cur | prev) 16:27, 14 July 2005‎ Joy (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (2,316 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Medjugorje moved to Međugorje) (undo), see current discussion. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:00, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, was that Support or Oppose? not clear. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:17, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

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Map making

Do you have any idea which software is frequently used by Wikipedians? Thanks in advance. Praxis Icosahedron (talk) 21:46, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Advocacy?

I would think not, or do you in fact doubt that the Bosnians are Slavs? The "Sklaveni" settled all over the western balkans, is their any rationale for the Serbs and Croats to usurp them? Some seem to believe that Serbs and Croats have a monopoly on Slav history in the region. Obviously the Bosnians draw their descent from the "Sklaveni" just as much since they too are western South Slavs; allow me to quote John Fine and Robert Donia from their "Bosnia-Hercegovna: A tradition betrayed":

The Slavs settled in Bosnia (as well as Serbia, Croatia, and Montenegro) in the late sixth and early seventh century. They appeared in small tribal units, but were drawn from a single Slavic confederation - the Slaveni [i.e. "Sklaveni"]. Thus they were all one people, which means that the Bosnians come from the same Slavic base as today's Serbs and Croats. In the second quarter of the seventh century, the Croats invaded and asserted their overlordship over the Slavs (Slaveni) in Croatia and parts of Bosnia. In regions to the south and east of Bosnia, the Serbs came to predominate over the Slavs there. Whether these newcomers asserted their control over all the Slavs of Bosnia is unknown; it also impossible to determine which parts of Bosnia fell under Serbs, which fell under Croats (other than the northwestern counties mentioned in Byzantine sources), and which remained under neither. - Bosnia-Hercegovina: A tradition betrayed, p. 14-16.[28]

I will undo your revert and enter this source as a reference.

Thank you. 90.230.54.125 (talk) 16:01, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

And just to let you that when I first made an edit to that sentence some time ago it only mentioned the Serbs, thus I doubt that you have any actual knowledge of what the sources are saying. Any way, I have provided you with one now. 90.230.54.125 (talk) 16:03, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Joy, I fully understand your objections but I do not believe that I have displayed a disruptive way in my editing history nor did I actually think of you as biased. My intention was to convey the lack of historical evidence to conclude that the Bosnian Slavs would have originally just been "Serbs" or "Croats", there is simply not enough data on how tribes coalesced and formed in the early medieval Balkans. However, as you can see, according to Fine, the predominating substratum among today's Croats, Serbs and Bosnians would actually simply be South Slav and thus largely independent of the Serb or Croat name which only came about as a ruling legacy of elite casts of Iranian origin referring to themselves as such (John Fine, When ethnicity didn't matter, Google books link available upon request). The article sentence in question is not really dealing with the 6th century Serbs and Croats, but the contemporary ones, so no one is really trying to claim any Bosnian distinction as early as the 6th century. Although, the Bosnian Slavs (i.e. Bosnians) have been a distinct people since at least the 10th century (even though their "ethnonym" only appeared 1100s) Fine, What is a Bosnian, London review of Books.I am deeply sorry if you experienced me as crossing the line, but the scholarship does not negate the possibility that Bosnians might descend from South Slavs uninfluenced by early Serbs and Croats, certainly this would fit the well with the lack of any definite Serb or Croat identity in Bosnia prior to the 19th century. 90.230.54.125 (talk) 18:02, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying that, it never occured to me the edit could be percieved in such a way. An account would be a good idea! Is there any way of tranferring my editing history to a new account? 90.230.54.125 (talk) 18:27, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Ekmecic

There's another issue regarding his inclusion and some third-party and knowledgeable on the subject input would be appropriate [29].--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 18:03, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Joy

I am sorry, Joy, i just want to tell you to stay neutral as you were in the time of the adminship. I still think that you are great neutral user, and please, stay like that. I was not talking directly to you, but to the rest of users in question. Be well, happy new year. --WhiteWriter^speaks 12:23, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

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Medjugorje

Hello Joy - I was wondering if you'd had a chance to see my response to your concern about "Medjugorje" as established usage in English-language reference works here. I'd be interested to have your thoughts. Dohn joe (talk) 18:26, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

User:Lukabeograd

Hello,

Just as a heads up, I've just caught User:Lukabeograd assigning FRY and SFRY results to Serbia in sports articles, and you have twice warned him in the past for doing the same thing under Arbcom discretionary sanctions. These changes comprise most of his edits since your last warning. I'm going to give another warning - that will be his fourth in total - but you may wish to consider whether any other sanction is appropriate. Kahastok talk 10:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

I have raised the issue at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Lukabeograd. Thanks, Kahastok talk 15:13, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

History of BiH (1878-1918)

Wouldn't be better I move the page to "Bosnia and Herzegovina in Austria-Hungary"? --Wüstenfuchs 12:48, 31 December 2012 (UTC)