User talk:Jonathan Archer

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August 2008

Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Alina Plugaru, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. ukexpat (talk) 13:55, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Nomination of Alina Plugaru for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Alina Plugaru is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alina Plugaru until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Question

Hello and salut @Jonathan Archer:, I've recently noticed that you uploaded some recent photos of Inna on Wikipedia, including this [1] from one of her latest singles "Papa" with Sickotoy and Elvana Gjata; hence the question, do you happen to have access to photos of Gjata too? I would welcome your response. :)--Lorik17 (talk) 15:16, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello. I'm sorry, but this is the only photo I have from the filming of the "Papa" Music Video.Jonathan Archer (talk) 20:27, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Inna

Hi there! Over the past couple of weeks I've been away from Wikipedia, you have added a lot of unsourced and redundant information to the Inna article, and have done a lot of edits to change its structure for the worse. Please don't my edits again, but if you do, then I will have to search for a third person to mediate this whole situation. Greets; Cartoon network freak (talk) 19:15, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello. I am surprised, first of all, by your tone and incorrect statements about me. For starters, this is not about your article because Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia, and anyone can make improvements to increase the quality of their articles. Second, I added only relevant and sustained information from quality sources and removed some redundant and questionable information. Unlike you, I do not claim that the information I provide is perfect and could not be improved by anyone else. However, I do not agree that you should reject all my changes without providing specific counter-arguments, I will continue to support my changes, and I agree that other people should mediate these differences of opinion. Respectfully. Jonathan Archer (talk) 20:27, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello again. Sorry if my tone came across as rude. Let me justify why I've undone a handful of your edits:

• • you never have "Records" in the infobox, it's a Wikipedia guideline. That's why we have only "Global" in the infobox
  • you removed the paragraphs about her supporting that LGBT petition, and that paragraph about her 2011 net worth without any justification although they are backed up by reliable sources and are facts
  • in a similar fashion, you removed the sourced information about her dating Stefan Lucian. This is, again, backed up by a source and is a fact
  • Inna did not invent live sessions, these have already been done before by other artists; "which has had a strong impact" needs a source. "Impact" is not measured by YouTube views. This whole statement of yours is unsourced.
  • The fact that Madonna's boyfriend was featured in the "Caliente" music video is not in any way relevant for her biography. It's included in the "Caliente" article, but does not belong here.
  • "Despite 2020 being a challenging year" and "She also teamed up with" are not very encyclopedic formulations to begin with. Also, you talk about Inna releasing "Call Me Now", "Party", "Oh My God" etc, which have not had any relevant commercial success or impact, and thus do not belong in her biography. If a reader wants to see her discography, they can read "Inna discography", but her biography is not a place to list all her releases, just the relevant and significant ones. The other ones are left out. Cartoon network freak (talk) 06:33, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello. First of all, I am glad that the tone of the discussion became much more appropriate, polite and friendly.

Secondly, I present to you in the following lines my counter-arguments to the problems reported by you:

- The name of the record company that Inna works with is Global Records and not Global. I have no problem here if these are the Wikipedia requirements for Infobox although I find it strange that the full name of a company needs to be changed.

- I removed the information about the financial gains from 2011 because it is just a speculation of an obscure source. For example, information about her financial earnings appears on Madonna's page, but they are supported by articles from CNN and Forbes, two authorities in the field of financial transactions and very credible sources. In contrast, information about Inna's financial earnings is based on an article (offline) from Monitorul Expres, an obscure provincial daily in Romania, which has no financial profile and is not recognized as an authority on financial transactions. I have no problem mentioning a financial gain of the artist but the information should be supported by a very credible source in the financial field in Romania or abroad.

- I deleted the information about the open letter of support from the LGBT community because I consider it redundant and political implications. The redundancy stems from the fact that at the beginning of the article about Inna is specified her support for the LGBT community "Inna is a human rights activist, participating in campaigns against domestic violence and in support of children's and LGBT rights" On the other hand, the action supported by the Romanian Orthodox Church to change the constitutional definition of a family was a religious and political movement actively supported by the then ruling political party in Romania (PSD) with implications against European values. I may be wrong but I consider that political actions are not relevant and should not be mentioned in the information about the activity and career of a personality in the music world.

- The information on Wikipedia must be supported by real and credible sources and not by questionable information provided by tabloid sources. I modified the Personal Life section with information about Inna's lovers. Inna has officially acknowledged only the relationship with John Perez and Deliric according to sources that mention the recognition from the artist [01] [02]. As for Lucian Ștefan, there is no confirmation from him or Inna about a love affair between the two. The tabloid Cancan [03], which is quoted in this case (via ProTV [04]), talks about a love story quoting "sources from Inna's circle of friends". That is a source of dubious information (Cancan) cites other dubious sources, without naming them. From my point of view, the information about Lucian Ștefan can also be kept if it is supported by another source that mentions the recognition by the two of this possible love affair. Otherwise, I consider that this statement is only speculation fueled by the long collaboration between the two but unsupported by any credible source.

- You removed the Special Projects and Live Sessions section, initially claiming that "Videos didn't have that overwhelming impact we're talking about." Really? Not only is there talk of the overwhelming impact of videos, but the facts and the number of views on Youtube also demonstrate the impact of these special projects because live sessions have over 170 million views on Youtube. Then you reworded and now claim that "Impact" is not measured by YouTube views. "Maybe you're right, although I doubt that the number of views on Youtube is not relevant information for Wikipedia. I have not put more relevant sources for this information but they exist and are very credible [05] [06] [07] Therefore I consider that this section has its place on Wikipedia being supported by quality sources.

- The mention of Jesus Luz as Madonna's ex-boyfriend may not have been relevant and could be removed, but the rest of the information about Jesus Luz and the filming of the video in Costa Rica were worth keeping.

- Maybe "Despite the fact that 2020 was a challenging year" and "With which he teamed up" are not very encyclopedic formulations and could be corrected or deleted but that does not mean that the whole chapter with information about Inna's activity in 2020 and 2021. Also, talk about the fact that the songs "Call Me Now", "Party", "Oh My God" should not be part of the biography because "they did not have any commercial success or relevant impact". Excuse me, but are you entitled to make value judgments and determine for yourself whether certain pieces have success or impact? Or do we need credible sources to support your claims? I agree to waive this information if you prove to me with credible sources that your statements are valid.

You also completely removed the information about the songs "Read My Lips", "Flashbacks", "Cool Me Down", and "It Don't Matter", which were successful in certain territories and which were supported by very credible sources.

Last but not least, you have eliminated the perfectly documented references regarding Inna's participation in the SAGA and UNTOLD festivals in 2021. What is the reason why this information is not relevant for the artist's biography?

In conclusion, I was very bothered by your initial tone and the fact that you deleted all the information I added. I am waiting for your arguments and decisions and then I will decide if mediation is needed in this case. Respectfully.

01 - https://www.click.ro/vedete/video-foto/click-tv/click-avut-dreptate-inna-se-iubeste-de-doi-ani-cu-fotograful-ei-video-exclusiv 02 - https://www.libertatea.ro/entertainment/inna-formeaza-un-cuplu-cu-rapper-ul-deliric-da-suntem-impreuna-3097524 03 - https://www.cancan.ro/s-au-iubit-timp-de-zece-ani-dar-acum-nu-vor-sa-mai-auda-unul-de-altul-inna-se-muta-din-casa-iubitului-infidel-14973876 04 - https://stirileprotv.ro/show-buzz/entertainment/dupa-10-ani-de-relatie-inna-se-desparte-de-iubitul-ei-ce-a-impins-o-pe-artista-la-aceasta-decizie.html 05 - https://www.protv.ro/stiri/inna-stabilete-un-nou-record-pe-youtube-2-miliarde-de-vizualizri-pe-propriul-canal.html 06 - https://robertcadar.ro/inna-lanseaza-in-your-eyes-in-cadrul-sesiunii-live-rock-the-roof-venice-beach/?lang=en 07 - https://kworb.net/youtube/artist/inna.html Jonathan Archer (talk) 10:06, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello. Do I understand that you do not agree with any of my counter-arguments to the changes on Inna's page and that the page must remain exactly as you set it? Jonathan Archer (talk) 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Hey there, sorry, I was very busy these days, I plan to answer to your comments, I did not plan to leave things like that. Give me a few more days. Greets; Cartoon network freak (talk) 08:47, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Hey there, sorry for the delay. I have responded to your comments above:

• The "Records" is omitted, it's just like that, and it's like that in many other quality articles such as Pink and Ariana Grande
• Okay, I agree: the information about her earnings can be removed; I removed them.
• The political activities of a singer is part of their biography; there are sections about the political views of artists in other quality articles like Lady Gaga and Dua Lipa. Inna's view on the LGBT movement should be kept as part of her biography since it denotes political activism.
• Inna has confirmed her relationship with Lucian Stefan herself, and I have added this source to the article.
• Yes, you are right: the live performances of Inna have all amassed many views on YouTube. But that's pretty much it. They have not sparked any other kind of discussion (in press) or anywhere else, and thus, this is not something worth mentioning in Inna's biography. Inna did not invent recording live performances in different spots, and the fact that they are popular online is not enough, in my opinion, for inclusion. They have not vital to her career or have had any impact (aside from views) on popular culture.
• I don't see how filming the music video in Costa Rica should be relevant for her biography. She has shot music videos in many different cities, but that's not relevant for "Inna", but rather for the articles about the songs themselves. I don't see, for example Rihanna, having information about where she shot music videos in her biography.
• The scope of an artist's biography is to give an overview about their vital works and events in their career; if a user wants to see a list of all their songs, they should go over to their discography page. If a song is vital or not is decided by its chart performance, the discussion it sparked in press, and the impact it has on the artist's legacy or on popular culture. "Call Me Now", "Party", "Oh My God" and many more are not at all vital Inna songs since they did not make any waves, they did not spark discussions or achieve success, and thus, they don't need to be mentioned in "Inna". If we mentioned every song release of hers, we would end up with so much unnnecessary information and with a written version of her "Inna discography" page. There is no need for that.
• I have not removed information about "Read My Lips", "Flashbacks" and "Cool Me Down"; it is talked about their success here, and that is enough.
• The SAGA festival is not as notable as Untold, but I have included the information about her performing there now. Cartoon network freak (talk) 16:26, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello. I have analyzed your arguments and, for the most part, I agree with them. However, there are some issues and we have made the following changes, explained below:

- I have removed the following passage because the information is not true and the quoted source clearly states at the end that "The text is a pamphlet and must be treated accordingly."

"In December 2011 Inna was offered a lead role in a French film but turned it down for unknown reasons.[01]

- To the album "I Am the Club Rocker" I added the information about the special song "Club Rocker" made together with Flo-Rida which is important because it is Inna's first international collaboration.

"This album includes a special version of the single "Club Rocker", featuring with the globally known artist Flo Rida, Inna's first international collaboration."

- "Having also appeared there in 2020, Inna performed at the Untold Festival in October 2021"

I replaced the wording about participating in Untold because it is incorrect. Inna did not attend UNTOLD in 2020 because it was canceled. The attached link [02] talks about the artist's participation in a television show broadcast on New Year's Eve, not about participating in UNTOLD 2020.

"Inna participated as Alok's special guest at the UNTOLD Festival on September 12, 2021, in Cluj-Napoca, on Cluj Arena."

- I made some changes in the Personal life section and I removed the mention of the artist's mother and grandmother because they are not public figures.

- Inna was not a juror in the Masked Singer show on Pro TV, she is a juror from 2020 until today.

[01] https://web.archive.org/web/20120515031101/http://www.click.ro/vedete/romanesti/Spionul-vedeta-Inna-refuzat-rol-film_0_1300070063.html [02] https://www.paginademedia.ro/2020/12/program-revelion-2021-pro-tv/ Jonathan Archer (talk) 15:07, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Hey there, I have undone some of your edits, and the reasons why are stated below.

• Untold 2020 took place, despite the pandemic, but in a different setting, also featuring some pre-recorded parts. It did not take part in its usual form, but the event that took place was indeed called Untold 2020. So Inna attended the festival, and thus my formulation was correct (also check the sourced I added in the article). Also just a reminder: the SAGA festival is not that known and important. Only important appearances of Inna's should be listed in her biography.
• Removing Inna's mother and grandmother because they are not "public figures" does not make any sense. It is a fact that Inna lives with them in a house, and this should be included. This information relies on reliable sources.
• If you say "Inna has been", then it means "Inna was and still is". It's English language. The "has been" formulation is correct.
• Please don't add the "Papa" image to the 2011 section, since the 2011 section should have an image from that era. The "Papa" image is best in the 2020 section replacing the "Nirvana" picture, since the latter is quite blurry and unprofessional. Please keep it like this.
• There is no need to mention further information about the magazine. It's a digital magazine, and that's it. It hasn't had any huge impact and thus should not be talked further about here.
• You reformulated the information about her Turkey hospitalization, although it was completely fine the way it stood before your edit.
• Also some thoughs on your addition of The Artist Awards to her awards page: the award is fairly new and its methodology is quite bizzare. I couldn't find any information on how these awards are given to the artists... based on what criteria(?). I would wait some more with the addition of The Artist Awards to her awards page. Cartoon network freak (talk) 18:02, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello. The reasons given for some of your changes are relevant and I agree with them. However, I do not agree with the changes about UNTOLD and the List of Awards and Nominations. I have set out my arguments below and please do not edit my changes. Otherwise, I have to look for a third person to mediate this whole situation.

• Please do not enter false information on this page.

Untold is the festival organized every year for several days, on the Cluj Arena stadium and with the participation of hundreds of thousands of spectators at each edition. As certified by Wikipedia, the official UNTOLD website and other reliable sources, on June 2, 2020, the festival organizers announced that the 6th edition of the festival has been postponed to the summer of 2021. The decision was made following the pandemic of COVID-19 which gradually affected the whole globe and which imposed, starting with March 2020, new restrictions and rules of social distancing on the Romanian territory as well. A TV show or a selection broadcast online with moments from the previous 5 years of the festival does not represent the UNTOLD festival - Chapter 6.

• The List of Awards and Nominations section must contain a list of all awards and nominations received by an artist. Point. The 8 The Artist Awards received by Inna in the last 3 years are a reality documented by the sources provided. According to Wikipedia's rules, you do not have the capacity to hide important facts based on personal value judgments that are not supported by any reliable source.

Respectfully.

• https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untold_Festival
• https://untold.com/official-statement
• https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/actualitate/untold-neversea-electric-castle-si-summer-well-au-fost-amanate-pentru-2021-1316643
• https://weraveyou.com/2020/06/untold-festival-cancelled-due-to-the-coronavirus-outbreak/
• https://www.edmtunes.com/2020/06/untold-festival-2020-is-canceled/

Jonathan Archer (talk) 07:38, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

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Roxen

• http://chartsaroundtheworld.com/ is not a reliable source, and that is plan obvious actually - it does not state HOW the chart is compiled and WHAT is taken into consideration for it. The charts published there are very dubious and should not be used; in the past, there has been Media Forest who had published Moldovan charts and they (although charts are no longer published there) remain the only reliable providers for Moldovan charts since their methodology is CLEAR. Also, http://chartsaroundtheworld.com/ looks like a blog to begin with, so there is even another reason for it to not be used. I know you used it in a lot of your articles, but it is not reliable and should not be used. It also isn't listed at WP:GOODCHARTS.
• Also "Amnesia" peaked at number 26 on the Tip chart in the Netherlands, which is not the same as 126. The Tip chart only features songs that have never charted in the top 100, so they exclude any song that, for example, descended from position 100 to 101. Thus, it is not 126, so please leave the note in place.
• "Devil in Desguise" is not credited to "Roxen featuring Coyot", but only to "Coyot", and Roxen has uncredited vocals on it. It does not belong in the As lead artist section
• "Parte din tine", "Crazy Valorant" and "Dincolo de Marte" are credited to "XY and Roxen", so that means that Roxen is the lead artist too on those songs along with the other artist. The songs belong in the As lead artist section
• "Nu dorm" is not a single; a single is being typically promoted or receives a music video. "Nu dorm" is just a song that is featured on an album. It is not a single, and this is why it belongs in "Guest appearances". Cartoon network freak (talk) 12:44, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Hello. I agree with most of your comments and have reworked the tables accordingly. And yet:

• The song "Nu dorm" remains on the list as a secondary artist. Apple Music presents the song "Nu dorm" from the album Cordial with Nane as the main artist and a feature with Roxen. Also, the Cordial album was released in 2021 on December 10 by Nopartyboys & Weather Way, according to Apple Music.
• The song "Devil In Disguise" was included in the Songwriting because Roxen is one of the authors of the song and vocal soloist (even if it is not credited in the title of the song).
• I did not understand why you deleted the External links because they can be found on the page of any artist. Jonathan Archer (talk) 15:35, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

• Please leave the {{N/A}} template in place for the non-album singles. It should be grey, as it is in all major discographies, for example Rihanna singles discography and Lorde discography
• Please retain the previous order in the "As lead artist" section; "Dincolo de marte" should not be listed before "Inima de piatra" for example, because the first one was released in December and the other one in July. Please keep it in chronological order
• Countries don't need to be listed in the table if songs in that table did not chart in that territory. For example, don't include Bulgaria in "As lead artist" because none of her songs in that table charted in Bulgaria. This is unnecessary. The same goes for, for example, including Lithuania in "As featured artist"
• "Strada ta" is not feat. Nane, but with Nane. Both are lead artists on the song.
• Again, "Nu dorm" is not a single. Please read the definition of single. "Nu dorm" is just a song that appears on an album, and this is why it is to be included in "Guest appearances". It would have to be released separately or be sent to radio or something like that to be a single.
• The external links section should not include Apple or iTunes links or any promotional stuff. See Rihanna and Lady Gaga for example. Cartoon network freak (talk) 18:57, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Image request

Hello there. Could you possibly request an image Sickotoy from Global Records? I would like to add one to his page. Regards, Sebbirrrr (talk) 23:16, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Edits on Romanian artists

Hi there, I am stating below why I decided to remove your edits on some of the articles you've heavily edited or created. Please read my reasoning below before you undo my edits again.

• Third-party articles should not be used for peak positions. Only the source from the official provider of the charts should be used. I will take Minelli's page as an example. You say that "Mariola" peaked at 11 in France and use an article as a source to support that. However, per WP:GOODCHARTS, lescharts.com is the only provider for the French charts. If you check Mariola's page (which you can find here https://lescharts.com/showitem.asp?interpret=Minelli&titel=Mariola&cat=s ), you'll see that it never entered the French charts. These articles do not specify which charts they are using or who compiled them so them saying that it "entered the charts in several countries" is just an example of sensationalist content since the chart could very well be an iTunes chart. Thus, these articles should be avoided when sourcing peak positions.
• Per WP:BADCHARTS, "charts pertaining to only one specific retailer should not be used". Consequently, iTunes and Shazam charts should not be used at all as chart replacements for other countries and most certainly should not be mentioned in articles.
• Spotify streams and Youtube views should not be used to assess a song's success at all. The amount of streams and views a song gets is absolutely irrelevant to determining whether or not a song will chart on a country's official chart. I'll take Wrs as an example where you said that " 'Why', which received over one million views on YouTube and 400 thousand streams on Spotify". Even if "Why" didn't enter any music chart, the song did not get an outstanding number of views or streams so this should be kept out of the article.
• Some of the information you have inserted is very vague and could be misleading to others reading the article. Saying that "have been successful, both in the digital environment and on the radio" is an example of such information as it makes sound like the songs have amassed numerous streams on platforms and subsequently reached the music charts in various countries and then you link a tabloid which should be avoided as they intentionally formulate sensationalist headlines and information in whatever they put out. Similarly to the first point that I made, "'Empty Spaces', which entered the charts in 12 countries, including Germany, Denmark, Poland, Turkey and Russia" is also classified as such information as one of the sources does not state which charts the song has entered and the other one says that it entered the iTunes and Shazam charts, which fall under WP:BADCHARTS and should not be used. Another example is "Rampampam" as by checking the peak positions in the article, the song was not an "international hit". While the song did have success in Central and Eastern Europe, international means that it should have charted in various countries from across the globe, not only in Europe (yes I am aware that it charted on the Global Excl. US Billboard chart but that's not enough for it to be considered that). Just because an article called it that, it should not be called that on wikipedia especially since the peak positions say otherwise.
• Everything I mentioned in the points that I made above make the articles look like promotional content; adding misleading and superfluous information to inflate the success that the singer in question has attained (while I only used 2 articles as examples, everything I said applies to other articles you've been involved with too). This type of information should not be kept in an article as wikipedia is not a means of promotion or advertising. Please check MOS:PUFFERY and WP:IBA for further information.
• One last thing, when you add new sources, please add the author's name and access-date correctly. The author's last name should come first as this is the English wikipedia. As for the access-date, if you want to add an article today, March 18th, but the article was written on January 1st, then the access-date is March 18th. The access-date is not the same thing as the date an article was published.

Regards, Sebbirrrr (talk) 23:03, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Jonathan Archer

Thank you for creating Ami (Romanian singer).

User:Scope creep, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Great article.

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Scope creep}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

scope_creepTalk 17:56, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Category:Alina Eremia has been nominated for deletion

Category:Alina Eremia has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 00:25, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

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