User talk:JMK/Archive 6

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Acacia

I hope I am reply correctly. Feel free to contact me directly: tpyoung@ucdavis.edu

The Acacia name changes hanve been a very contentious issue. Here is our stock answer: "The revision of the Acacia genus has not been accepted by the vast majority of non-taxonomists, and is likely to be revisited (again) in the 2017 Nomenclature Section of the International Botanical Congress. Until then, it has been recommended that the use Acacia s.l. be used, continuing to refer to all Acacia taxa from the entire range as Acacia (Smith and Figueiredo 2011) . We have followed this convention."

We have been prepared to argue that we report our species as "Acacia (Vachellia) drepanolobium", or as a worst case "Vachellia (Acacia) drepanolobium", but in practice, it has never been an issue. In the eight years since the 2006 Congress, we have submitted literally dozens of mss than mention (and usually focus on) African Acacia spp. and not once has an editor of reviewer demanded or even requested that we use the new genera. There was one query, but they were satisfied with our demurral. It might be worthwhile doing a literature search to quantify non-compliance. I did an informal check on several species (using ISI) last year, and found that virtually the only users of the new genera were taxonomists.

Unfortunately Wikipedia has jumped on board with the Acacia name changes, confusing far more than enlightening. My attempts to reverse this ill-advised change (or at least clarify it) have fallen on deaf ears.

Gideon F. Smith & Estrela Figueiredo (2011). "Conserving Acacia Mill. with a conserved type: What happened in Melbourne?". Taxon 60 (5): 1504–1506.

"Until then [the 2017 Botanical Conference] it is our view that those who have to refer to any taxon of this group do so following the classification that recognises Acacia s.l. This means that all names of Acacia taxa from its entire distribution range will continue to be called Acacia ." (pg. 1506).

Comment I accidentally encountered this discussion while intending to contact JMK on another matter. It seems to me in the circumstances that it might be best to recognise Acacia s.l. as a "supergenus" and reassign all species within the supergenus to newly named genera, whether they happen to be Australian or not. Add the convention that no specific epithets would be recognised in more than one of the newly defined genera. If thereafter anyone prefers to refer to say, Acacia sieberiana rather than whatever the new genus name might be, he might do so without prejudice to its new correct specific name, or its cladistic or other taxonomic status. Nor would it cause any confusion either in the literature or the old. I happen to find this a very interesting point, as I am preparing to add material to the Common name article that is very close in intention to this subject. JonRichfield (talk) 15:30, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

The feedback that I'm getting is that at recent botanical conferences the new generic names were ignored in favor of, for instance, Acacia sieberiana, and Wikipedia is too far ahead of the curve here. The option of using Acacia sensu lato remains open, but confuses the public, as books and digital sources will include names based on the recent studies. If that option is used it is perfect for wattles, not acacias, which are the acacias. Nonetheless the recent studies which brought about the changes surely give us more insight, which we can only ignore at our peril. It would appear unfortunately, as if the they were hijacked or poorly implemented, and the main reason seems to be the disinclination to accept "Racosperma".

Consider Indoxysticus, derived from "Indo" (range) and the parent genus Xysticus. The choice makes perfect sense as the end user is reminded of its range and its relationship. In many other instances the nomenclature assists rather than confuses, so rather than Racosperma one could introduce new nomenclature that also reflects its range and relationship.

If I consider the conventions I notice that when Brachychiton was split from Sterculia, and who knows what may be split next, it was the last described taxon that acquired the new name. Imagine us having to look for a subsequent, rather than earlier, name for Sterculia, because Australians vote to use the latter, as they don't like the idea of Brachychiton.

As to the acceptance of the name acacia (Afrikaans: Akasia) I notice that it is used (among other places) in several instances of the Afrikaans and other bible translations, where it is not likely to be replaced. In the English bible it is sometimes translated as Chittimwood, and as even the wikipedia article relates, that was "used in the Tanakh to refer to the acacia (Hebrew: שטה). Acacia albida, Acacia seyal, Acacia tortilis and Acacia iraqensis ..." And these all belong to the real Acacias, based on Acacia nilotica, and does not even include any Senegalia.

When I look at the systematics I see another reason why Acacia must be retained for the "A. nilotica" group. That is namely that it is a natural and fairly sizable group at the stem (coloured yellow) of Acacia sensu lato, while to the contrary, the wattles form the crown (coloured pink), i.e. a modern natural group at the opposite side of the spectrum. I'm not aware of any instance where the stem's nomenclature changed because the crown was species rich. "Vachelia" means nothing to me, and personally I see it as nonsense. Wikipedia's move to "Vachelia" is premature, and I suggest that it be reverted to Acacia.

Senegalia can and must indeed be used, as it makes a useful distinction, and we don't want to fall behind the times. We must remember that Faidherbia has already been split from Acacia and nobody had a problem with it. So as I see it the African genera will be Acacia, Senegalia and Faidherbia, and if the Australians don't resolve their Racosperma issue, which is an issue only with them apparently, then non-Australians are going to have a vote on it. JMK (talk) 08:19, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

And I notice that Acacia is used by default here.[1] JMK (talk) 08:33, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Stenolemus

Hello JMK, I was unaware of this genus until a day or two ago, when a friend of mine in Windhoek, and another in Klawer stumbled on them. In following it up, I found Australian informal references and the photo you submitted to Wikimedia. If you are active (or willing to grit your teeth and visit) Facebook, you can see material i.a. at my page at "Jon Richfield". The genus seems to have been known for many decades, including its araneophagous habits, but I am looking for material concerning its taxonomy and possible invasiveness. The resemblance between the Windhoek photos and some Australian material seems too close to be plausible. Any comments or pointers from you would be welcome. Personally I am not an active researcher and never have been any sort of taxonomist, and I would of course treat confidential material with the necessary respect. Thanks for your attention plus any comments. JonRichfield (talk) 15:30, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I have almost no information of this genus unfortunately, and the identification was made by someone else who apparently encountered them before. To sort out their invasiveness and taxonomy would be very interesting, but I can hardly be of any useful assistance. Will look at your photos though. My interests in entomology are wide, and my knowledge of it unfortunately shallow. I may have more photos of this and another individual of apparently the same species, but all less illustrative than the wikipedia photo. I have found only two individuals, in a room under a thatch roof where small spiders are common. So maybe one can check whether thatch roofs don't attract them. JMK (talk) 08:34, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Much thanks for your reply and comments. Feel welcome to contact me if anything else occurs to you. JonRichfield (talk) 11:57, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Create a template listed at Redirects for discussion

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DYK for Seothyra

Thanks for helping the project Victuallers (talk) 19:47, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

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Idea: Afrikaans articles on international schools in South Africa

If you're interested you can start Afrikaans articles on en:Deutsche Schule Hermannsburg and other international schools in South Africa. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:32, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I noticed your list of suggestions. Have some unfinished articles to attend to though. And may try to get some photos of the schools and upload them to Commons. JMK (talk) 18:57, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Cool! That would be great. Thanks in advance :) WhisperToMe (talk) 19:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

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Photo of Hendrik Potgieter

The museum I am working for is looking to loan a photo of Hendrik Potgieter for exhibit.

In 2012 you uploaded this photo of Hendrik Potgieter. I have done a reverse image search, but it seems all the photos of Potgieter on the internet were copied from Wikipedia. I would like to know the exact reference to the photo if possible? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.87.126.61 (talk) 12:24, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

To answer my own question, the original photo is from the War Museum in Bloemfontein South-Africa, and has been uploaded to Wikipedia now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.87.126.61 (talk) 12:00, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Apologies! Assume you are User:Vysotsky. I did not know the origin of the photo, but the larger version that you uploaded now, was uploaded by someone else previously, and since then apparently deleted. I just cropped the portrait from the larger version without knowing its origin. Your upload and information is much appreciated! JMK (talk) 12:14, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

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Falcataria moluccana gallery

Thank you for your addition of a photo gallery on the Falcataria moluccana page. The addition of a gallery is very useful but only if the photos can be verified as the correct species. Unfortunately it looks like you might have made an error in your identification of the plants featured in all of those photos. It would be great if you could update these pictures with the correct species as soon as possible. I work with this plant and would be happy to update the photos if you are not able to.

It's OK to remove this message. Feel free to contact me about this issue at puliafico @ gmail.com. K. P. Puliafico 04:18, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm glad you noticed that mistake - and I assume you refer to the files labeled "Subabul ..." etc, which were not categorized when I came across them. I could see that the leaves were not exactly alike but thought it may be a regional variant, and accepted the id supplied by the uploader, namely Paraserianthes falcataria which is a synonym of Falcataria moluccana. I assume those photos in stead refer to Leucaena leucocephala (Lam.) de Wit? JMK (talk) 10:10, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, these photos look much more like Leucaena leucocephala than Falcataria moluccana and so the original uploader must have made a mistake. I will review our photos and add new ones with the proper identification under the CC licence. K. P. Puliafico 19:58, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Cluthia pulchella

Hi

I am writing to you as it looks as though you wrote the page for this plant. I have recently returned from the fabulous Kirstenbosch gardens and have a picture, with label, of a plant. Unfortunately, it looks completely different from the laurel-like plant pictured on the page. I have made my photo (to which I claim copyright for now) accessible here. https://Rowley06.de.quickconnect.to/direct/photo/share/xkHxhwQJ I am very early on in my knowledge of SA botany, but I think this label may have come from elsewhere. Can you help? Blueflightmedic (talk) 17:16, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I can say with a high degree of certainty the plant in the wikipedia article is correctly identified. There are a few varieties of C. p. in different parts of the country, and I'll try to upload photos of the other varieties as well, but they are not very different. An easy way to identify Clutia pulchella is that they often have bright pinkish leaves among the green ones, and they are found on sheltered, stony mountain slopes, and often as an understorey plant. Concerning your Kirstenbosch photo: There may be some Clutias at top left, but the plant in front of the sign looks like a species of Plectranthus, compare the leaves on this web page: [2]. There are many species in the latter genus, and without flowers or a sign they will be difficult to identify to species level. JMK (talk) 21:36, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your rapid and helpful response. January is of course not a great time to see many plants in flower. I shall now label my photo appropriately as Plecranthus spp. Blueflightmedic (talk) 16:44, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

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John Dunn

Nice job, thanks. Wizzy…☎ 14:02, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

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GeoGroup

Regarding the discussion of GeoGroups, I was able to insert a work-around for the short run. I was surprised it worked! See what you think at List of peaks in Rocky Mountain National Park.--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:35, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

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