User talk:Indon/Archive7

Cribb

Excellent to see you use that citation - I have met him - he's a very nice person - I am pleased that we have his material - as he is a real historian through and through SatuSuro 09:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC) cepat sekali - sekali lagi! SatuSuro 10:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Kakapo

OK - gatherin' apace. Feel free to stick a comment on the FARC too..Cas Liber 19:25, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Tambora - the caldera.jpg

Any news? Bryan 09:15, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

They are unacceptable on Commons. So I will have to delete them. If they are really necesarry, you can upload them under the fair use terms. Bryan 09:49, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Jawa Pesisir Lor

What do you think of Jawa Pesisir Lor? Does this ethnic group really exist? The information seems to be from some missionary church database, but I can't find any academic references. I'm tempted to Afd it. (Caniago 19:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC))

Just give me 24 hours - I have a few difficult source issues - kalau tak bisa mencari jawab sampai besok, off to afd! maybe our first hoax art! SatuSuro 09:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Got it. I have asked the editor. It's a single purpose user up to now. The article itself wasn't linked from anywhere. — Indon (reply) — 09:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah but - no sufficient refs/cites/physical evidence = no notability - and what about RS? ...SatuSuro 09:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The Joshua project can be reliable, but it is not enough to cite only to this website. There are no other reliable sources stating this definition. Thus, I am leaning to AfD for WP:NN. — Indon (reply) — 09:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.joshuaproject.net/peoples.php?rop3=104221 - I would argue that the specific cultural label that joshua project is using is as almost as obscure as some materials in the surkarta kraton library - and I would oppose Afd - and would still ask for 24 hours - the issue of what they are basing their information data sources is something that the project needs to take issue with - as it claiming authority and 'knowledge' about something within the javanese cultural area that is not necessarily common knowledge (see some other arguments about this horrible term in some other arguments I have been having recently) and I have a very serious suspicion that I know one of the americans involved inthe project - and if I can track him down - it might take a day or two to ascertain their methodology - I mean even if you afd (I'd prefer you didnt just yet, please) - the issue of what and how the project has idnetified supposed groupswithin the javanese cultural region needs to be addressed... SatuSuro 09:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Don't worry, I'm not going to AfD it. ;-) — Indon (reply) — 09:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Here is how Ethnologue breaks down the Javanese: [1]. The Joshua Project breakdown is here: [2]. (Caniago 10:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC))

The full Joshua project page for Jawa Pesisir Lor is here: [3] (Caniago 10:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC))

Having reviewed the info - I am no closer to a definitive answer - I know how some of my lecturers at University would have responded if they saw the website and project details - the language is not printable on wikipedia. (except by some vandals i know...) However, having known one of the possible founders/collaborators of the project while still in its infancy - I also think there is a need to address/locate the project and its assumptions in an article - it is possibly out of the scope of the indonesian project, the point would be to find critiques of their (the projects) way of looking at the world. Will try to follow up with a better explanation again later. SatuSuro 23:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, keep posting. Based on Michael's information, there are two type of Javanese sub-ethnic tree. Which one is the correct one? Is the Joshua Project reliable or is it only in the purpose of missionaries? I think the Ethnologue one is more in the academic world, doesn't it? — Indon (reply) — 09:08, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Its spurious {the ethnic divisions created) - completely - but by its very nature - that is the assumptions made by the project - the particular labels (ethnic divisions) need articles with balancing information - imho as a trained anthropologist of javanese things the very nature of their work and their concepts needs an article with a critique - but havent found the critiques yet, sigh... :( when i do i'll try an article or two...SatuSuro 09:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Province Maps

Hi Indon, first province map is ready to upload - just wanted to check a couple of things.

1. What size do you think I should upload them as? With SVG's it doesn't matter, but with PNG's it probably does.
2. Do you really think I should overwrite the existing images? The Commons policy on this is: Files should only be replaced by the original uploader, or by other users in cases of obvious quality improvements which cannot be disputed (better ask first!). In many cases, it is better to upload the file under a different name. The new files will be significantly different, but not 'obviously' better. And neither of us are the original uploader. I think we should probably upload them as new images, even though that will be more work (articles which use the old maps will have to be changed). Thoughts....? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bwmodular (talk • contribs) 12:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

North Maluku is done - let me know your thoughts before I add any others.--Bwmodular 13:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi again, I uploaded a new version of North Maluku with a brighter colour as the green wasn't really showing up when the picture was small. Let me know if you think it's OK. BUT, have a look at: North Maluku!! I'll add an info box later so the image displays at the right size. BTW New version of Inkscape out yesterday - seems much as before, but you might want to take a look. --Bwmodular 08:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Do you think a dark blue or a red? I'm colour blind (red/green) so not the best person to decide these things :)--Bwmodular 09:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I tried blue before I got your message. What do you think? I quite like it.--Bwmodular 09:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at the red. Maybe green was better after all, but to me it really didn't show up very clearly at small resolution.--Bwmodular 10:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Back to green! Thanks for your patience - I'll start on the rest of the maps, but prob not until early next week.--Bwmodular 10:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Maluku

Hiya, when you view Maluku on commons do you see the old map, or a new style one? I've uploaded a new one but it still looks like the old one, even when I clear my cache, etc. What does it look like to you?--Bwmodular 13:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Ignore that last question - I can see the thumbnail OK, even if the main page still shows the old map to me.--Bwmodular 13:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Your Locator map, its eating the infobox

Dear Indon, sorry if it is rather harsh, but your locator (Image:Indonesia blank map.svg) is rather toooo big, its literarry eating the infobox, with 300px (and plus margin) wide its use half of the content page in 1024 monitor, its look bad , especially the article in question is so small (stub).

Well its not your fault of course, our nation is toooo big , I cannot consider the solution yet, (Final Project?Tugas Akhir is witing ) :) --- Arifhidayat 17:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Oalah, iki wong mBandung to tibak-e, Its funny, your locator in browser (opera 9.10) is located in .... Cambodia ! I guess that because the picture is resized, in 300px locator (eg. Jakarta) its locating correctly but, the image is tooo big ---- Arifhidayat 17:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• • Rrrr I refrehs it, and its now correct, sorry for all the mesh, infobox is okay , afterall, i guess i'm drunk :) Arifhidayat 17:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

PT Platinum Ceramics Industry

I'm wondering, do you think it meets the notability guideline for companies? Caniago 09:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

If it keeps happening I believe admins can permanently block the page from being recreated. (Caniago 18:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC))

Bandung

Of course. I may be going to sleep soon though :-) The crazies have really been out on wikipedia today. Caniago 12:17, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Nah everyday - its just they go for your watchlist today -... :) SatuSuro 12:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, SatuSuro's watchlist has more crazy people than I have. Don't share it to me, please! :) — Indon (reply) — 12:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I get the feeling that there are more random first time contributors to the Indo related articles, as if wikipedia has had some publicity over there recently. Caniago 12:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

orang gila...tak bisa ikut disini

Abandonment is the word - to use - the other ones dont fit!! SatuSuro 13:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It's now abandonment. — Indon (reply) — 14:07, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Maaf kalau saya 'seperti' dogmatic school teacher... :( SatuSuro 14:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Isidore van Kinsbergen

ha ha - i just categorised and assessed this article. I thought I was really smart to find it. Then I noticed that you only just wrote it. lol. nice work. Merbabu 04:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, it's freshly baked. :-) — Indon (reply) — 08:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Riau Islands

Have a look at the new locator map as it appears on Riau Islands. The islands are so small that they don't really show up when the map is at low resolution. Do you think I should

1. put a circle round the islands as we had on the previous version
2. make the provincial boundary thicker so that this at least will be visible at low res
3. leave it as is is
4. something else

BTW I'm keeping all the svg files of the provincial maps, so we can easily make changes to all of these at any point.--Bwmodular 17:28, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I made the provincial boundary thicker and the same colour as the islands, but it's not made much difference. Have a look and tell me what you think.--Bwmodular 11:44, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Bright red is somewhat better - still doesn't exactly leap off the page, but I think it's probably OK like that.--Bwmodular 12:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Provincial images table

Hi, I've split the table up into sections according to their region. This makes it easier for me to keep track of the changes I made, but also easier to double check that we'd included all the regions. As it turned out, we were missing a few, so I think the list is now complete. I removed Wetar as this isn't a province. I've left Western New Guinea in there, but this isn't actually a province, so it should probably go. If you have time, can you check the list and make sure it's as you think it should be. --Bwmodular 11:12, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

My first barnstar! Thanks Indon! --Bwmodular 11:34, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks guys, you're doing a great job! (Caniago 04:15, 17 February 2007 (UTC))

DYK

moved to gifts — Indon (reply) — 09:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Cricket World Cup

Can you have a third look at the article? Your comments in its FAC have been addressed.--Thugchildz

Pashtuns

Hello. Can you respond to the Pashtuns article? It's been a while and I just wanted to know where people stand now. I've made the changes people suggested (including yourself) and appreciate your input. Thanks and take care. Tombseye 21:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Iguanodon

Hello, Indon;

The members of WP:Dinosaurs appreciated the work you did on the Triceratops FAC, and we were wondering if you'd give Iguanodon a look at some point, if you have time (it's a much longer article). We're in the copyedit phase, and we thought it would be a good idea to get some other eyes to read it. I would particularly appreciate it, since I wrote a great deal of the article, and I know all too well the advice about being too close to something to see its flaws. My main concerns are detail (as in too much) and redundancy from section to section, which I think may be useful to some extent in a long article, but for which I'm looking for the fine line. Any thoughts you have would be welcome.

Thank you very much for your time! J. Spencer 03:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Your reverts to Dian Sastrowardoyo and Marina Joesoef

If a blog reference isn't good enough, I'll try to locate my old Chaseiro albums. BambangP 19:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Found better references for you. RahadyanS 19:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. BambangP 19:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

prisoner Exchange article

No, i didn't afd it, but although I've listed my support for deletion, i might change it. It's a poor quality article, but it could be improved. Merbabu 12:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Cites

I was planning on a talk post to the page itself; I'll let you know in a minute. Marskell 13:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, you'll see the last issues on Talk:Kakapo. To be clear, I look for "safely within criteria" and not so much "totally perfect." It had been in the FARC section nearly a month and people were pleased. My only concern sometimes is that once I archive, a person working might think "ah, well, enough with that one", when a couple of last tweaks are needed; occasionally I leave talk messages in this regard. Marskell 13:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Collab

I finally moved the collab. To the 'mud flow thingy'. I'll do a mass posting tomorrow to announce. I'm a bit disillsioned with the collab thing. It doesn't seem to be working. Perhaps next time I will restrict it to stubs that I think can grow. I think people are reluctant to edit an aticle that is already medium or large in size and got the main points. if it's a stub, it is like a new sheet of paper. Merbabu 14:02, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Agree. How about activating the Imoeng's newsletter but with simpler view? I like that newsletter for a reminder, but too colourful to read. — Indon (reply) — 14:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Both of you have the right idea - reduce the visual impact on the newspaper template- and lets get some important stubs to start even! Both good ideas - good thinking guys! SatuSuro 14:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Blank province map, missing Provincial Border?

Hi Indon, shouldn't the blank province map have a provincial border seperating East Java from Bali? If you think it should, I should be able to fix this in all the maps I've done so far using a 'replace' in a text editor, and then re-export the png's. While we're at it, do you know what the little yellow arrow which sits behind the border between Bali and West Nusa Tenggara is?--Bwmodular 17:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't you see this yellow arrow here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bwmodular (talk • contribs) 09:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

New version of the map here. Have removed the arrow and added the border. There's a small island due North of Bali, do you know if that's part of Bali or part of East Java province?--Bwmodular 10:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Found the islands using Encarta's online atlas. Quite hadny really. The islands are the Kangean Islands, of which the largest is Kangean Island. Part of West Java. I'll move the border to show this, and then write a macro to change all the existing maps and reupload the png's.--Bwmodular 10:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

All done - let me know if you spot any that I've missed. Wish there was a bulk upload tool for the commons, but that would be inviting too much trouble.--Bwmodular 17:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Sukuh

If you haven't seen it already: http://cip.cornell.edu/Dienst/UI/1.0/Summarize/seap.indo/1107006615 (Caniago 10:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC))

Excellent - a delicate subject - and you have the article up and running like that! very impressed - I can seee I can turn my head - while coping with orang gila di australie - (some editors....) and you have created articles like that! well done, and take care! SatuSuro 14:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Wait till it goes into the mainpage in a few days. I quoted the best intriguing statement that I'm sure it will attract thousands of vandals and orang gila. :-) Thanks, anyway. — Indon (reply) — 14:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

ha ha ha...

[4] Merbabu 13:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

:-) I see you're busy handling the hyperactived Aus-Indo editor. I don't know much about that field, so can't really help. Like SS said "banyak orgil di sana". Good that Holland is quieter. :-) — Indon (reply) — 13:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I've always wanted to write a newsletter. Maybe we can alternate? I'll organise one this weekend, and you can do the next? What do you think? I will get you to review it first though. Merbabu 13:08, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Of course I will. I think that's a good idea. I'll wait your first version then. :BTW, it's really tempted me to quote it that Indo should give aid to Aus. :-)) — Indon (reply) — 13:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

shall I tell him he's your quote of the week? he he - up to you. Merbabu 13:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

It's probably of the week, two weeks, a month or a year, depends on whether a funny thing crosses my screen. :-) Well, if he drops by then he'll see. — Indon (reply) — 13:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

i'd apprecciate a look if either of you will let me - before you put it up (newsletter that is) - as for the other subject - kalau seribu monyet dapat keyboard... mungkin lebih gelas dan.... SatuSuro 13:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

How about I just deliver the draft to the whole project for review first, so they know what they are getting?? Just kidding. Will do, Satu. Merbabu 13:27, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

hahaha, again. You like to adjectivy anything, Merbabu. :-) — Indon (reply) — 13:40, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

???? --Merbabu 14:08, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

How about 'prosify' ? :-) — Indon (reply) — 14:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The good thing about this guessing game is it not a 'singlish' derived one - its an 'indonish' one - mungkin adjectivy and prosify might have meant to have been something like embellish, enhance, elaborate - or develop, expand, or even fill up? SatuSuro 14:30, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the newsletter, let me know of any ideas. I will of course, make mention of a few articles and their progress. Borobudur, GA for Indonesia, Indonesian Revolution, Indonesian architecture, Mount Tambora, Volcano List, etc. And, there's heaps that M Lowe has done too. Merbabu 14:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Hm... I think some of them (Mount Tambora & Volcano List) are already the old news. Let me know where you have done some scratch of the newsletter then I can make some comments. — Indon (reply) — 14:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, Komodo Dragon has been recently GA'ed. — Indon (reply) — 14:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Out of time...

Hhmm - I'm short of time. Perhaps you could write it up afterall? I can help out if you want (copy edit?). Anyway, I made a list of progress User:Merbabu/Newsletter Merbabu 03:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll try, when is the deadline? — Indon (reply) — 10:09, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Please - I would prefer not to be mentioned - (the bottom line on the page) - many others have been doing it as well :)

I would much prefer a comment (i can make it if you like, here try this ):

• When accessing articles related to Indonesia - please always check the discussion or talk page - to see that it has the WP Indonesia tag on that page
• When accessing pages that appear to have had users not signing on the talk page - or signs of any edit war - please add the talkpageheader tag as a gentle reminder
• When finding articles of dubious content, questionable POV, or other issues - please always alert fellow editors at WP Indonesia noticeboard so that we can see the article with the problem.

I would think that is much better for the whole project - if you could add that. (if you want a londho proof your edit..let me know) thanks SatuSuro 10:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, points taken. :-) — Indon (reply) — 10:33, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that SatuSuro 10:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Mohon maaf, tetapi bisa kurang merah di dalam newsletter? SatuSuro 10:46, 25 February 2007 (UTC) (ok bad grammar i know, but.... :)

Don't worry, I'm trying to re-layouting the newsletter. I feel red is obstrusive too. — Indon (reply) — 10:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Can you post it as a template? Merbabu 11:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it is possible, but my question is still how did Imoeng connect the newsletter with MartinBotII. — Indon (reply) — 11:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

You need to contact Martinbot's owner. But I've found that 30 odd deliveries is easy to handle. How many have you got? Just open lots of tabs in Firefox, copy and paste it, then press save - just do each step 30 times before moving to the next one. SHould only take 5mins or less. ;-) Merbabu 11:20, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, for <= 50 members I think it's okay. Let me create a template first, but then if we don't have to use MartinBotII, then there's no deadline, isn't it? I can't edit much during the weekends, so perhaps the template will be ready tomorrow or Monday. — Indon (reply) — 11:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I 'cheated' and checked out the newsletter. Maybe you could add a sentence on each new articles? Also, som of theses are new since the last addition: Indonesian architecture, Omo sebua, Timeline of Indonesian History, The coming of Islam to Indonesia (1200 to 1600), Tongkonan, Australia-Indonesia relations, Timeline of the Indonesian National Revolution, Adam Air Flight 574. Just a thought. Merbabu 10:10, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Ha, you're a cheater! :-) I am putting seeds first. BTW, instead of template as you asked, how about sending messsages to each member as a link to the new Newsletter? Then we don't litter others' talk page, only spamming with one sentence. — Indon (reply) — 10:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Muhammad's slaves

Your attention is drawn to this Talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muhammad%27s_slaves, for discussion of your recent deletion of facts and references. Regards, DavidYork71 00:41, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Template removal

I noticed you removed several templates recently [5] [6] [7]. Please be aware that these templates are applied for practically all Asian countries, unless there is reason for Indonesia to be an exception?--Huaiwei 12:41, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

So are you going to remove that template from all related articles in wikipedia?--Huaiwei 12:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

May I butt in? The articles have categories. Why do we need ugly templates? Why would he want to remove them from other articles? Merbabu 12:47, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't want to do that. I didn't add them there. — Indon (reply) — 12:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

DYK noms

Well spotted. Anybody can add items to Next Update, but, for the most part, you shouldn't move your own noms to the next update. We'd make exceptions if an admin was doing the update and only their noms remained from those about to expire etc., but generally you can move any self noms transferred by the nominator back if you see them (especially if they aren't the next in the queue as this one wasn't). Cheers, Yomangani^talk 14:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

DYK

moved to gift — Indon (reply) — 09:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)