User talk:Gilgamesh~enwiki/Archive 16

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Inverness

Any particular reason that you feel that Inverness "IS NOT" the capital of the Scottish Highlands? Hypertone (talk) 16:11, 18 August 2012

I had no idea what you were talking about, so I checked Inverness' edit history. I did not make such an edit — another user reverted someone else's edit to a previous version of the article last edited by me. See the edit history entry. I believe your complaint is with Ben MacDui. - Gilgamesh (talk) 17:03, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I've checked and apologies, you're absolutely right. Sorry for that. Hypertone (talk) 21:58, 18 August 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.237.24 (talk)

Everyone makes mistakes. :) - Gilgamesh (talk) 02:41, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to workshops on Wikipedia editing

Dear Gilgamesh,

We are a team of researchers at the University of Oxford and AU Sharjah, researching the experiences of editors of content about the Arab world on Wikipedia. We are interested in your experiences of editing Wikipedia and are organising two events that we think you would be an excellent contributor to.

First, we are hosting an online wiki focus group about contributing to Wikipedia in Arabic and to articles about the Middle East and North Africa. We are interested in what barriers you perceive to exist in Wikipedia, how articles can be made better and generally what can be done to expand and improve Arabic Wikipedia and Wikipedia articles about the Arab world. This discussion will take place on a MediaWiki hosted at our institution and be available in English and Arabic. We will allow users to create their own discussion pages in addition to our discussions.

Second, we are hosting face-to-face workshops in Cairo from 21st-22nd October 2012. If you are interested in this we should be able to pay travel and accommodation costs for up to twenty participants. This workshop will cover similar themes to the online discussion but will allow participants to meet one another and benefit from being together.

We will take care of the organization and planning and all you have to do is show up and be ready to discuss. But if you would like to help shape some of the discussion themes in advance, please let us know. We have booked time in the workshops for Wikipedian-led discussions.

More details can be found by expanding our “Frequently Asked Questions” below.

We would be delighted to welcome you to either (or both) event. Please let us know (wikiproject@oii.ox.ac.uk) if you would like the opportunity to participate and we can send you more details.

Sincerely,

Mark, Bernie, Ilhem, Ali, Ahmed, and Heather

Dr. Mark Graham, Oxford Internet Institute, University of Oxford; Dr. Bernie Hogan, Oxford Internet Institute, University of Oxford; Dr. Ilhem Allagui, Department of Mass Communication, American University of Sharjah; Dr. Ali Frihida, National Engineering School of Tunis; Heather Ford, Oxford Internet Institute, University of Oxford; Ahmed Medhat, Oxford Internet Institute, University of Oxford;

OIIOxford (talk) 10:36, 21 August 2012 (UTC), tidied 10:13, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

IPA

Actually, [ɰʷ] would just be [w] (labialized velar approximant). The Japanese /w/ is different. — kwami (talk) 08:57, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

[ʷ] is the only standard symbol for labialization. [ᵝ] is not standard IPA usage. Why not use [w̺] and [u̺]? - Gilgamesh (talk) 17:03, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Wikify notice

Just to let you know that Template:Wikify has been deprecated. Please use Template:Underlinked, Template:Dead end or Template:Cleanup etc. instead. Cheers Del♉sion23 (talk) 20:22, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Kemono for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kemono is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kemono until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. —Ryulong (琉竜) 17:01, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Marshallese transcriptions

I'm coming here, since it seems you are the author of the manner in which Marshallese words are transcribed at Wikipedia. I believe the situation to be a mess. The transcriptions are not only incredibly narrow, but Help:IPA for Marshallese does a poor job of explaining the transcriptions to non-experts. Here is how I see improving the situation

  • Stop distinguishing between /broad/ and [narrow] transcriptions in Wikipedia articles. Stick to one transcription between brackets, since users aren't expected to know the difference between phonemes and allophones.
  • Do away with the IPAc template(s). The input for these is so obscure that you are the only one who can do it. A simpler {{IPA-mh}} would be better for other editors (see, e.g. {{IPA-es}} for a comparison).
  • Simplify the transcription. While academic tradition is an important factor, don't feel confined to strictly adhere to how sources transcribe Marshallese in IPA; there is a profound precedent of what would be original research if it were in article space. One way to approach the matter is to start with a phonemic notation system and add only the allophones that are necessary. The fewer diacritics the better. This is why, for example, Help:IPA for Spanish encodes for lenition of voiced obstruents but without undertacks. This should help achieve an appropriate balance between too much and too little detail.
  • Bring the format of Help:IPA for Marshallese in line with the other IPA for X pages. — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 16:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
    • Marshallese is infamously complicated in this regard. I've already been discussing in Talk:Marshallese language about this. The problem is, Marshallese phonemes don't map well to IPA articulation, which is why the dual broad/narrow transcription exists. The narrow articulations are quite real. The diphthongs are quite real. The consonants' secondary articulations are quite real. We have been discussing how best to handle it, but Marshallese is far removed from European languages and simple assumptions of how to transcribe them in such a eurocentric system like IPA. - Gilgamesh (talk) 02:09, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Oh, I understand the issue about allophones in Marshallese, but I don't think we need to carry that nuance to every article that we make transcriptions in. I'll try to participate in the discussion you're having at Talk:Marshallese language. — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 15:14, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Marshallese anthems

Gilgamesh, I've noticed that you have contributed a lot to the Marshallese anthems on Wikipedia (Ij Io̧kwe Ļo̧k Aelōn̄ Eo Aō and Forever Marshall Islands) I thought you might be a good person to bring some questions I have regarding the anthems and their pages:

  • First off, I noticed that the Ij Io̧kwe Ļo̧k Aelōn̄ Eo Aō is written in the new orthography, but the anthem was replaced in 1991. The Marshallese language article isn't clear on it, but I get the impression that the new orthography didn't take affect until after the anthem stopped being used in 1991, so might it not be better to have the lyrics in the old orthography (and mention that it's the old orthography)?
  • And, conversely, the current anthem seems to be in the old orthography (there doesn't seem to be a single ļ, m̧, ņ, or o̧ in it, although they may not be in the words used in the anthem, I don't know enough about the language to verify that). Should it not be in the new orthography?
  • Does the current anthem have a Marshallese title? (Is it referred to as whatever "Forever Marshall Islands" is in Marshallese in Marshallese?)

Thanks for any advice you can give on that. --Canuckguy (talk) 01:13, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's not so simple. I only had lyrics for the old anthem in the new orthography. Also, the old anthem is not just a former anthem, but a Marshallese folk song that has commanded cultural respect since before it became an anthem and since after it was no longer an anthem, and it has not lost this significance or practice as a folk song. As for the new anthem, I know very little about it, as I moved away from the Marshall Islands shortly after it was adopted, and I never learnt its melody, much less memorized its lyrics. My frank opinion is that the new orthography supercedes the old orthography in all cases; but if both remain in notable use, then articles like these should include both. But I only ever learnt the new orthography, and all I know about the old ones are some occasional notes about how it differs from the new one, and I otherwise have no practice in it. In studying Marshallese, I have relied greatly on the Marshallese-English Dictionary, which since 1976 has been the only complete Marshallese dictionary in existence, and it exclusively uses the new orthography. And this is the problem — the old orthography may be widespread, but never had quite as much formal lexical work as the new orthography has enjoyed. Lacking a dictionary, the old orthography is learnt by example and analogy with a lot of idiosyncratic spellings that can differ from person to person. In this respect it resembles the relative chaos of scribal English before the adoption of standardized spellings starting with the Chancery Standard.
If you can find old orthography lyrics for the old anthem, be my guest. I am still searching for new orthography lyrics for the new anthem. And I don't have the slightest clue whether or not the new anthem has a Marshallese name. - Gilgamesh (talk) 01:38, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Talkback from Technical 13

Hello, Gilgamesh~enwiki. You have new messages at Talk:Beersheba.
Message added 12:52, 8 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Another move request for this page. Technical 13 (talk) 12:52, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Cedilla#Cedilla shape in Marshallese

Hi Gilgamesh. You've contributed information about the cedilla in Marshallese. I've asked for reference concerning the shape of the cedilla in Marshallese in Cedilla#Marshallese and Talk:Cedilla#Cedilla_shape_in_Marshallese. Thanks in advance. --Moyogo/ (talk) 12:18, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Recent addition to bikini re. "design violates the traditional female modesty customs of Marshallese culture in its exposure of bare thighs"

Hi. Saw your recent addition to the bikini article re. "design violates the traditional female modesty customs of Marshallese culture in its exposure of bare thighs". This is interesting, and I've no reason to doubt the info you've included, but I've marked it as needing a valid source/citation. Would you please be so kind as to return to the article and provide at least the minimum in verifiable sources? Thanks! Azx2 18:28, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I was a tad afraid of this...I knew there was a possibility someone would demand a reference. At this time, I have none, though I suppose it's possible I could find a hard reference if I dove through my bookshelf of Micronesian culture books. My immediate reference is having grown up in the Marshall Islands, which though in good faith, is something I suppose makes this the epitome of original research. Empirically, pending a harder reference, I cannot defend the unreferenced material, but I thought it at least worth mentioning because it is very true in Marshallese culture, and therefore contextually fascinating. For now, I suppose I could Google cultural websites to find some harder corroboration. - Gilgamesh (talk) 19:10, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
No worries, I'm sure you'll ultimately arrive at whatever the best scenario would be for how to include this fascinating material. Cheers! Azx2 20:03, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

tempête

Hello, this pronunciation is [tãpeɪ̯t], [tãpaɪ̯t] or [tãpɐɪ̯t] ? Because it's difficult to hear. 198.105.121.83 (talk) 01:46, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Well, if you want my opinion, of the three, it sounds closest to [tãpɐɪ̯t]. - Gilgamesh (talk) 03:52, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
Maybe. 198.105.121.83 (talk) 13:47, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

This one is also different to hear. It's [ivæːχ] or [ivaɛ̯χ] ? 198.105.121.83 (talk) 15:51, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Hard to tell. The audio sample sounds almost as if it's speech-synthesized. - Gilgamesh (talk) 16:02, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Do you think it's [ivæɛ̯χ] ? 198.105.121.83 (talk) 19:34, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

neige

This pronunciation is [nɛːʒ] or [naɪ̯ʒ] ? 198.105.102.93 (talk) 20:09, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

The latter is closer. - Gilgamesh (talk) 04:19, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

tête

[tɛɪ̯t], [tɐɪ̯t] or [tæɪ̯t] ? 198.105.113.238 (talk) 15:12, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

The second one sounds closest.
By the way, you keep asking me these random pronunciation questions. All my answers are original research at best. What is all this actually for? And is there no one else you ask? - Gilgamesh (talk) 23:08, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
Because I want to know which one is the closest pronunciation. 198.105.107.6 (talk) 01:54, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

secondaire

This one is difficult to guess it's [sœɡõdæːʁ] or [sœɡõdaɛ̯ʁ] ? 198.105.122.239 (talk) 12:49, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

I can't really tell. - Gilgamesh (talk) 05:27, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of List of liturgical Hebrew cognates for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of liturgical Hebrew cognates is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of liturgical Hebrew cognates until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 22:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

tard

This pronunciation is [tɑɔ̯χ], [tɒɔ̯χ] or [tɒːχ] ? 166.48.173.32 (talk) 01:45, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Please register a Wikipedia account and interact with the user community at large (such as through an article talk page) to find a better way of seeking these answers than to just ask me every several days. This haphazard anonymous-to-user approach is inefficient and yields only subjective answers at best. - Gilgamesh (talk) 10:08, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Out with the old...

For 2014: Wishing you a Healthy, Happy and Fulfilling NEW YEAR! Shir-El too 19:35, 23 December 2013 (UTC) (image: NASA Mars Rover, sunset)

Category:Kamchatka

Category:Kamchatka, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Tim! (talk) 21:40, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Category:Tea Party movement

Just in case you weren't aware of it, Category:Tea Party movement is under discretionary sanctions - see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tea Party movement. StAnselm (talk) 23:17, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh, thank you, I wasn't aware of any of this. - Gilgamesh (talk) 23:19, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
You're welcome. I figured you mustn't have realised. I think you've dodged a bullet here - you were setting yourself up for a long block. StAnselm (talk) 23:22, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Ouch. To be honest, I wasn't entirely sure what the right thing to do was. I examined some of the guideline pages I knew of, and even asked other editors for counsel and advice. I only decided to act boldly when I thought my actions were permissible according to policy. - Gilgamesh (talk) 23:24, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Ukrajina listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Ukrajina. Since you had some involvement with the Ukrajina redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. TheChampionMan1234 10:25, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Phonological history of English low back vowels

Hi Gilgamesh, I'm sorry but this edit has introduced an inconsistency into the article that spurred a complaint on talk years ago which was still unaddressed, so I had to undo your changes. When reliable sources contradict each other, the obvious solution – also usually followed on Wikipedia – is to relate their accounts side by side and acknowledge the differences. Attempts to force harmonisation between conflicting accounts artificially only result in confusion and fall foul of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH, that's why we don't do it. Stemmler (the chart in Great Vowel Shift), Wheeler (the table in that same article), Barber (the running text in Phonological history of English low back vowels) and Wells (the table in that same article) are all different authors, so it's not that surprising that they don't quite agree. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 04:12, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Category:Volcanoes of Bougainville

Category:Volcanoes of Bougainville, which you created, has been nominated for renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- Black Falcon (talk) 21:45, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

A question

Are you Gilgamesh from the Hebrew Wikipedia? Lior (talk) 10:49, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

No. - Gilgamesh (talk) 11:21, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Romanization of Hebrew - Comparative table

In Romanization_of_Hebrew#Comparative_table, your edit at [1] added the following incomplete sentence: "In addition, an International Phonetic Alphabet pronunciation is indicated—historical (Tiberian vocalization) for ISO 259, prescribed for Hebrew Academy, and in practice for Israeli." Looks like you had intended to end the sentence with "Israelis" or a noun phrase instead of just the word "Israeli".

Also, your subsequent edit at [2] removed the IPA column from the Hebrew Academy section of the table. If that was your intent, then you will also want to remove the reference to that IPA column from the sentence quoted above, which remains as you created it.

Since I don't know your intent for the second issue, I'll leave them both to you. Thanks, --Rich Janis (talk) 05:42, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

It's been years since I even touched those articles. I barely remember any of the details. - Gilgamesh (talk) 06:52, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Deletion nomination

Hello. A help page you created has been nominated for deletion. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/IPA for X. — Ƶ§œš¹ [lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt] 00:31, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

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