User talk:D7240

Welcome!

Hello, D7240, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Image Tagging Image:HermesPan.jpg

This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:HermesPan.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

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I have updated the copyright information as requested. D7240 14:17, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Royal Wedding quote

Do you happen to have a date for the Ava letter regarding the vacuum commercial? I think it's OK as is to say it was printed in Time and Variety, but given the nature of the letter, someone might snip it as being not sourced enough (I've seen that happen in other articles). A date might also be helpful for researchers since digital manipulation is controversial; also I do recall hearing that Astaire's estate did approve the ad, though it's possible they didn't realize what was planned (that said, Royal Wedding is public domain so they may have had no say at all). Also, was it only in 1997 that the ad was made? I thought it was earlier than that, like 1990-1992. Time flies. Cheers. 23skidoo 15:17, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

You make a good point and I've added a citation for the source for this entry. The commercial first aired during the 1997 Suberbowl. Although Royal Wedding (like Second Chorus) as an entire film is public domain, Astaire's estate has sole rights over the use of any film clips which feature him, for more on this see Fred Astaire's solo and partnered dances or Billman's book. D7240 12:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Good work with the citation. I remember seeing the ad myself and being none too pleased. There was also a cola ad (or some similar product) using footage of Bogart and Monroe that was kinda tacky. A few months back I heard something about Lauren Bacall going ballistic because of a European ad for, I believe, cigarettes that featured Bogart who died of lung cancer... 23skidoo 14:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Eleanor Powell

Thanks for solving the Great Morgan mystery! I knew it couldn't have been one of the Broadway films as was stated in another source. Do you actually have a copy of the Powell book cited? I've been trying to track down a copy for ages but unfortunately the only copy I can find is on Amazon for something like $100. 23skidoo 18:30, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

You're very welcome. Unfortunately, all of the Bio-Bibliographies in the Performing Arts are priced as academic monographs - which essentially they are. I don't own a copy, although I believe I can access one via a library. What I did in this case was to use my account with Amazon.com who will allow me to access a (very) limited number of pages of the book through the search inside feature. This is very useful for validating specific inquiries, in those books where the search inside facility is available. They will not allow you to save a copy of any page you access, so you either need to transcribe the information, or use some other technique (e.g. digital camera). And they will not allow you full access to more than about ten pages before cutting your full page access off. On a side note, according to Schultz, the song that Eleanor is dancing to is "Got a Pair of New Shoes" which was on the music title lists for Broadway Melody of 1938 and was recorded for that film. This may have been what your source was alluding to. The specific arrangement Eleanor dances to is a special one by Walter Bullock. D7240 12:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Image:Fred Astaire - Style.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Fred Astaire - Style.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that fair use images which could be replaced by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted 48 hours after this notification, per our Fair Use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. PhantomS 16:25, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for alerting me to the presence of a duplicate of Image:Astaire at NBC 1936.jpg on Wikipedia Commons. Unfortunately it is a duplicate of the fair use image I uploaded, and refers to Image:Astaire at NBC 1936.jpg as its source, while relicensing it under a Japanese license. As this is an NBC publicity photograph, I am almost certain that this relicensing is incorrect. Therefore I have restored the page to its previous state, pending the outcome of this deletion request. I have also edited the image description page and the image description page to reflect this situation D7240 18:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

In your edit to the article Fred Astaire you wrote: "however, book cover definitely violates fair use since article is not about a book". You may be correct, but the template Template:Book cover doesn't actually say that. It says it might. Because this is not a black and white issue. There are plenty of unfree images on Wikipedia such as book covers, magazine covers, movie screenshots which are used in articles because they are inextricably associated with the subject of the article. The book in question is about nothing other than Fred Astaire, and it is used as a reference within the article. The purpose of this image is to communicate the fact that Astaire was considered one of the leading male fashion icons of his time - not just a dancer, actor and singer. Not to mention that he detested his usual portrayal in top hat and tails. What better way to illustrate all that than this book cover? Also, by relocating Image:Astaire at NBC 1936.jpg to the top of the page, you remove it from the section dealing with Astaire the singer. The fair use rationale I associated with this image states that it be used specifically for the purpose of portraying Astaire as a leading vocalist of the 1930s, moving it weakens this rationale. Of course, if it was a free image, as I know you assumed it was, that would be fine, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. D7240 19:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The infobox is for an identification photo. The reason why I put the replaceable image tag is both because it is a book cover and also because there are pd images for that purpose available. For example, at the moment, I am downloading Royal Wedding from archive.org in order to get some color screenshots of him for commons. As for the image on commons that is up for deletion, I assume that either the poster has special information about its Japanese copyright status, or that the image will be deleted. --PhantomS 20:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, you only placed a tag relating to a Public Domain replacement. In future, if you have a problem with the fair use viability of an image, especially where an image has been properly sourced and a fair use argument supplied, please make use of the appropriate tags such as {{fairusereview}} or tag {{fair use disputed}} with explicit arguments on the image discussion page as per Wikipedia:Fair use on why you disagree with a particular fair use rationale. This way, people can understand exactly what you mean. D7240 23:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Category:Songs introduced by Fred Astaire

Did you really mean to put that in the Category:Songs introduced by Fred Astaire? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 10:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Why? D7240 10:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry that was written badly but you have "Category:Songs introduced by Fred Astaire" in "Category:Songs introduced by Fred Astaire". Should it not be in something like Category:Fred Astaire? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 10:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. Many thanks, I've fixed it now. D7240 10:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Having noticed that "Category:Fred Astaire" is a redlink I am promted to ask where there isn't a category for him (and other very notable people) when there are categories like Category:Barney & Friends. It would seem to me that the category you just created, articles like Fred Astaire's solo and partnered dances and his filmography would populate it quite well. Cheers. 10:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Excellent idea. You'll have to excuse me, but I'm only just becoming familiar with the category concept, never having used it up to now. D7240 10:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

On further investigation, there was a category for Fred Astaire, but it was deleted after a discussion, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_March_4. I agree with the decision, and I think it is correct to expect that a wider range of disparate articles, not navigable from the main article on Astaire, should be present before establishing such a category. The Frank Sinatra category seems to be a good example of category use. D7240 23:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Good one on finding that. The deletetion debate makes sense. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 02:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Fred Astaire - Style.jpg

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Thanks for uploading Image:Fred Astaire - Style.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read carefully the instructions at Wikipedia:Fair use and then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Addhoc 21:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I have modified the fair use rationale and clarified my reasoning on the image discussion page. D7240 09:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Second Chorus.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Second Chorus.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Angr 17:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

If you check the history on this image you will find that I added the fairusereplace tag back in March. The reason I added it was to invite somebody to provide a high quality screenshot from the film. D7240 09:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Fred Astaire - Style.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Fred Astaire - Style.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Addhoc 00:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:FredAstaire.jpg

Please STOP removing my fair-use rationale and then tagging the image as having no fair-use rationale!!! Thank you. SFTVLGUY2 14:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

There is no fair use rationale provided for this image. But in any event, I did not tag it, BetacommandBot did. Not only that, the claim that it is a screenshot is bogus. D7240 14:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Note that there are two seperate issues-- if it is not a screen shot, you are correct that the tag is wrong, and the image needs sourcing. However the question of fair use (presuming the image is properly sourced) is a different matter. Thanks for your attention to such questions with images uploaded by yourself and others. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 13:36, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. D7240 16:23, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Gordon Jackson

Hello. From what I understand fair-use images, of which this is one, are totally permissible for dead people. For a living person they should not be used where a free one is available, but for dead people I don't believe there is a problem. Also, this picture has been on there some time, no one has yet queried it, so I don't see why there need be a problem. If it was illegal to use, an Admin would have picked it up by now, they normally do. --UpDown 19:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

'The Half of it, Dearie' Blues

Thanks for your nice contribution to 'The Half of it, Dearie' Blues :) I created the article with the aim of creating articles on all the songs in Ella's songbooks. I know that Astaire is so intimately tied to the Gershwin's works, if you could add any more to the songs listed at Ella Fitzgerald Sings the George and Ira Gershwin Songbook, it would be 's'wonderful'? Gareth E Kegg 20:38, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Glad to help. D7240 19:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Ginger Rogers

Film poster which isn't being used solely to illustrate the film in question and therefore doesn't meet fair use criteria. I've removed it. Tubetends 11:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmmmmmmmmm...A list calls

Thanks for arguing. Perhaps a subsection of Alphabetical list of songs recorded by Frank Sinatra/Astaire would be best? Gareth E Kegg 10:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you're right. On reflection, a category doesn't seem the right approach. D7240 12:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Help!

The Wikinazis are on the march again! Could you help here? Gareth E Kegg 09:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't characterize them as such - challenge and defence is part and parcel of Wikipedia - but I'm happy to add my voice. D7240 12:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. InnocuousPseudonym 16:47, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Eleanor Powell

Thank you for rescuing the image on Eleanor Powell. I have been so utterly and completely spammed by the image bots that I have decided to ignore all their requests and allow my images to be deleted without question. My rationale for that is they were perfectly fine when I provided the original rationale and I refuse to do any further work unless I am paid for my time. That said, it is nice to see at least some of my images are being watched by others, so I thank you for your time and effort. It's a shame a group of zealots have basically destroyed Wikipedia for a lot of us. Please do not reply to my talk page -- though I invite you to look at it to see how it has been rendered unuseable -- but I invite you to contact me via "E-mail this user" if you so desire. 23skidoo 01:48, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. I sympathise, and hope that you can put this frustration behind you. I haven't minded the occasional tap on the shoulder for images and what-not, because I've learned quite a bit about how images work on Wikipedia in the process, and I've dished out a couple myself along the way. I've learned to make my stand and then to go with the flow (consensus) as it emerges. Of course, for those who are already well-versed in such matters, it must be galling to find that the goalposts seem to have moved. For what it's worth, to date I've found the attitude and approach of User:Quadell on image issues very instructive. D7240 19:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

External lyric links

This seems to be a relatively new policy change. It used to be considered acceptable to link to a lyrics site, as long as you didn't actually copy the lyrics into the Wikipedia page. The position, I believe, was that Wikipedia is not going to police whether other Websites have followed the copyright rules. If Wikipedia is going to act as a copyright policeman on other people's sites, it will become less useful as a reference because the articles will have less useful information.

This being said, if this is now Wikipedia policy, so be it. But you have a couple of thousand other pages to go to and delete external references to song lyric sites. I have better uses for my time. -- BRG 13:56, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

From my reading of the policy: Wikipedia:External_links#Restrictions_on_linking, Wikipedia is anxious to ensure editors are not held liable for contributory copyright infringement, which the framers of the policy appear to think is a risk. I have no intention of policing anything, but when I happen on pages which fall within my pretty restricted sphere of interest, I correct such issues. No big deal. D7240 15:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Image:Pavarotti as Rodolfo.jpg listed for deletion

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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:HermesPan.jpg

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Carioca

I created Carioca (song) and wondered if you could possibly correct what I've written about Astaire and/or add to it? Thanks :) P.S. Do you fancy creating List of songs introduced by Fred Astaire? after the category was deleted. I'm to create one for Sinatra. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 17:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Gene Kelly

Thanks for adding the Hirschhorn citation to the bit about him teaching dance for a synagogue. I was wondering why you felt it only worth mentioning as a footnote? --Stetsonharry (talk) 22:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Kelly picture

Thanks for your comment - I'm glad you like the image. I've been trying to find suitable images of various people/films and I've discovered that a lot of the old public domain films and film trailers are a really good source. Gene Kelly is a very strong article, by the way. Have you considered nominating it for Good article? Rossrs (talk) 02:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The Astaire Story

Any thoughts?..... Gareth E Kegg (talk) 11:27, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

The Astaire Story has been created. I humbly invite you to mercilessly re edit. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 11:25, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

An Evening with Fred Astaire

Thanks for your great contributions to An Evening with Fred Astaire a few months ago. I started the article and did what I could, but it's nice to see it get some polish from someone who obviously knows a lot more than I do about Fred Astaire. Hopefully, one day the Astaire estate will notice the amount of interest the show has drawn, and finally release it (and its sequels) commercially -- and it would be nice to think the article will have played a part. Regards, ProhibitOnions ^(T) 18:31, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Astaire-Rogers-Waltz in Swing Time.jpg

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Fair use rationale for File:HayworthandPan.jpg

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FLC nominations and reviews

Hi, D7240. You may not be aware, but the new Featured list criteria was implemented Sunday 5 April, 00:56 (UTC) following two weeks of discussion at Wikipedia talk:Featured list criteria#New criterion discussion.

I've gone through the nominations and have noticed the following have received reviews from you, but no indication whether or not you support or oppose their promotion to WP:FL:

1. Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Gene Kelly filmography/archive1 (Gene Kelly filmography)

Please could you take the time to revisit the articles and candidate pages, check them against the new Featured list criteria, and indicate whether or not you support or oppose their promotion to WP:FL. It would be much appreciated as the nomination will not have to be kept open any longer than necessary.

Finally, please accept my apologies for the brusqueness of this message; the same wording is being sent to everyone who has outstanding reviews, with only the names of lists being changed. Regards, Matthewedwards :  Chat  05:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Vera-Ellen(Three Little Words).jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Astaire and Carlyle.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Astaire-One For My Baby.png

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ArbCom elections are now open!

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ArbCom elections are now open!

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Orphaned non-free image File:Astaire and luce.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Kelly in rehearsal.jpg

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