User talk:Axel8/Archive 1

Tie-break rules.

Even if they apply to everyone, the tie-breaking rules state number of votes then number of twelve points. Will ^(talk) 20:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I quote the 2007 rules, available here. Page 4, Section 5, clause 1.

Should there be a tie for position number ten in the Semi-Final or for first place in the Grand Final, the winner shall be the song which has obtained points from the highest number of countries. If the tying songs have received votes from the same number of countries, the highest number of 12-point scores shall be decisive. If the winner still cannot be determined by this procedure, the number of times ten points have been awarded shall be the deciding factor. If necessary, this method shall continue until account has been taken of the number of times one point has been awarded.

Will ^(talk) 18:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

re Flying the Flag (for You)

Amending content without either discussion or consensus is often regarded as vandalism. Please provide your rationale for amending the article at its talkpage. Should you continue to amend without comment you may find yourself blocked temporarily from editing Wikipedia. LessHeard vanU 21:52, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

A looming problem

(copied from User talk:Demyx9 by User:LessHeard vanU

Demyx, I'm noting that you and your twin tend to edit the same articles, and others seem to have noticed this as well. When administrators start to notice, you need to make a few changes to the way you do things. I've spoken to an admin who recently asked me about the nature of your twinship with Ajax. I've recommended that he look into asking you and your twin to edit different articles. this would allow you and Ajax to avoid accusations of sock puppetry and meat-puppetry, the former being a really crappy practice where users create numerous accounts so as to have a bunch of "other users" support their edits (this never works for long, btw, as a simple IP check crashes this little house cards editing behavior). Meat-puppetry is when you ask another user to come and help you push a specific edit. Both practices can get a user blocked and/or banned.

:Since you and your twin are likely sharing the same modem (if not computer), it is going to be in your best interest (as far as Wikipedia is concerned) to decide what articles each one is going to edit on, and try very hard to avoid the other person's articles, and definitely not support the other person's edits in a dispute. I don't mean you should oppose each other's edits; you should avoi situations where you would be inclined to even comment on them.

"I suggest this to help you protect yourself from being accused of being like those users who sock and meat, and richly deserve all the violence the cold, cold world can heap upon them and internet scam artists. I don't think you (or Ajax) are like this, and I thought you should know how your editing behavior is appearing to look like. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 06:42, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm the big bad admin referred to above. I would comment that there is nothing to stop you and your twin from editing the same articles if that is what you are determined to do. I would advise you, however, that you will have to both be very careful in scrupulously following the rules to avoid accusations of sockpuppetry and meatpuppetry. Please ensure that your edits follow the consensus of other editors (than your twin) and that you explain and discuss any changes.

By far the easiest course would be to edit different articles, or the same articles at completely different times. If you or Alex8 have any questions, please feel free to contact me. LessHeard vanU 09:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I recommend that you consider how you are going to edit Wikipedia in future to avoid possible problems. As mentioned, I will help as far as I am able. LessHeard vanU 09:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your comments on my talkpage, I will try to answer as many of your queries as I can.

First, sorry about getting your name wrong and, secondly, me being an admin means I am here to help other editors - so if you aren't sure what I meant then ask me again.

• Yeah, on talkpages always write new stuff at the bottom. In articles write where it makes sense.
• You can both edit at the same time, but it would be best to edit different articles. If you do want to edit the same article(s) it would be best to do it when the other is editing something else. Say you both want to edit the article Twins, while one of you edits the article the other can edit something else. When the first has finished then the other one can start - but try not to discuss your edits before swapping over. Other editors do not know that you know each other, and might think it strange that each of you seems to echo the other. Best thing is to write to each other on the article talkpage and make it clear that you are twins.

I can't do anything about your ip - it something that your internet provider arranges. If you use the same computer you will always have the same ip when you are both logged in (and depending on your provider you may always have the same ip). If anyone says "Hang on, you both edit the same stuff in the same way and your ip is the same then you may be the same person" just tell them that you are twins. If you need any help just ask me or Arcayne, or go to the admin noticeboard and explain your problem; as I said, admins are editors who are there to help other editors.

Your "editing patterns" is simply that you edit the same articles in the same way - once you explain you are twins then all good editors will understand.

Calling someone a sockpuppet or meatpuppet is different from calling someone a sheep. Lots of people think the same way, even if they are not twins, but sometimes people will do things to help their friends in an unfair way because they have been asked to - that is a meatpuppet. Other people will open lots of accounts and pretend to be different people, but all saying the same thing, to make other people think that there is a lot of support where there isn't - that is a sockpuppet. People who don't realise that you are twins may make the mistake of thinking that you are either. It is very important to be honest and tell people straight away that you are twins, and if they ask politely it would be best if one or the other of you stops editing the article for a while. However, if you both really do want to edit the same article then you can - because the other person has to believe that you are telling the truth about being twins.

Also, you do not have to prove that you are twins - people are supposed to assume good faith - but I would ask you to confirm that you are identical twins. This makes understanding your similarities much easier.

Lastly, once you have finished typing on a talkpage please add four tildes (~~~~) at the end so people know which twin is typing. LessHeard vanU 20:04, 18 September 2007 (UTC) I am copying this to your twins talkpage.

No, I don't mind

Sorry, AXEL - I remembered it wrong - lol. I will cut and paste the article from Demyx' page to yourse as well. I responded to him because he's the one who wrote to me (just like I am responding to you now that you wrote to me), and I didn't want to cut and paste such a long message, since I figured you would be watching his page as well, and I didn't want to clutter up two user talk pages. If you still want me to cut and paste I will, but you could easily do it as well.

I don't mind helping you two out. I was very lucky in finding good people to help me learn most of the ropes when I started, and I am just passing on the favor. In 6 months or so, you will hopefully/probably do it yourself for some other new guys. That's the way its supposed to work here. Of course, there are tools both on and offline, but you can figure out who to ask for advice from and who is likely on the dumb side of stupid.

If you guys run into a problem with the split-list, let me or Less know. He is a pretty helpful guy, even though that helpfulness means it might take a day or two to get back to you. Either way, don't lose your patience. One of the best leassons I've ever had to learn here is thatWikipedia:The world will not end tomorrow if someone's crappy edit is in place for a day or two. Likely, someone else will see it as crap, too and remove it without you having to do a thing. All the sudden, >poof!< you have found someone who thinks the same way as you. It's a good feeling. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 18:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Good sir, I've added the barnstar for you. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 18:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks so much

Thanks for the barnstars. You didn't need to give them to me, as I consider new users like you and your brother to be the next generation of admins, and if you have good experiences here when you are starting, you are far more likely to be better admins if and when that time comes. Have a great time! :) - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 19:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)