User:NorwegianBlue/refdesk/geography

The United Kingdom vs Great Britain

What is the geographical and political difference between the UK and GB? I am from England so why can't I be classified as English rather than from GB or the UK? For example when I purchase something online, normally my only option is to say I'm from the UK. England is a country in its own right why cannot I not be from England?

Well I too am English, and it is certainly a country in it's own right. However, it is governed along with the other constituent countries of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, by the government of the United Kingdom and therefore that is how it will be referred to on international websites. This is a legal thing as a UK national, it's not denying your right to identify as English. As for the other question, Great Britain is the island consisting of England, Scotland and Wales. The United Kingdom is properly known as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I hope the links give more details. Interestingly if asked for nationality on a form, with no given options I always put English. They can always turn it into GB or UK if they want. Cyta 11:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

NB There are also 14 British Overseas Territories, which the United Kingdom considers to be under its sovereignty, but not as part of the United Kingdom itself. None of them are in Great Britain. --Dweller 13:19, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

In summary ... the United Kingdom is a legal and political construction - it is what appears on your passport. Great Britain is a geographical entity - it is the name of an island. England is a country and English is a nationality. So your full description would be "an English citizen of the United Kingdom, resident in Great Britain". Gandalf61 13:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The nomenclature has always been a bit of a mystery to United Stateans. If I understand correctly, from the above, if Ireland were given back to the Irish, then the enterprise could correctly be called Great Britain, but freeing Scotland would still not let the diminished kingdom be called "England" because of Wales? Edison 14:25, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes - it's a bit of a mess. If Northern Ireland were to become a part of Eire (Ireland) - then the United Kingdom would cease to exist because it refers to the uniting of Britain (Scotland+England+Wales) and Nothern Ireland. So if that happened we would presumably go back to talking about "Great Britain" (that being Scotland+England+Wales). If Scotland were ever to gain total independence - we'd need a new name, but if that happened, I doubt it would be long before Wales would demand (and get) the same thing - so we could have England , Scotland and Wales as a true countries, each with its own government and so forth. But that is pretty unlikely - the three countries are each too small to stand up in the international scene. Giving Northern Ireland back to Eire is much more likely to happen now that doing so is not "Giving in to the demands of terrorists" - and it does make a certain amount of geographical and cultural sense - except that a majority of the people living there didn't want it to happen the last time we asked them. But with an end to the violence, we can at least discuss it like rational human beings - and if we do it - it'll be in an orderly, peaceful manner...because, in the end, we're British dammit! SteveBaker 15:08, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Although UK minus Northern Ireland would still contain a united kingdom of England and Scotland, since the two kingdoms have a single crown now. (I believe Wales was a principality (or group of principalities).) So the United Kingdom tag might still fit, technically speaking. Flyguy649 ^talk _contribs 15:13, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Moreover, take Northern Ireland out of the equation and you are still left with the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, both of which are part of the UK, but not part of Great Britain. Rockpocket 05:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

There is a difference between state , country and nation. For a lot of purposes (often monetary/trade) the state is the relavent construct since it is the state (the UK) that controls the currency. For the purposes of buting online it's irrelevant if you are english, welsh or scottish etc since you will be paying in the same currency UK pounds.87.102.67.227 17:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Careful. You will only drag us into a lengthy discussion on whether you pay with the English Pound or the Great Britain Pound. Simon A. 18:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

(Or why you get them from the Bank of England). SteveBaker 01:17, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

A Pint is a Pound the World around. --Tbeatty 03:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I suspect it's more than that, now. Last time I was in England it was only about 90p but that was some time ago. --Trovatore 06:04, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Sixteen years ago we called pound coins "Beer Tokens" since our local pub charged one pound for a pint of their preferred brew - but by about fifteen years ago the price went over a pound - so by now, a pint must be costing considerably more. SteveBaker 11:02, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Mexico City (Travel)

Hi, guys. I will be leaving at the end of this week for Mexico City, my first visit there, where I will be spending the best part of February. I would be grateful for any inside information any of you may be able to supply-where are the hot spots, cold spots, places to go and places to avoid? Some information on good restaurants and the night life would be a help. I will be staying in the Zona Rosa, if that's any help, though will obviously go wherever necessary. Also, I will be travelling out from a wintery London, and was hoping to get away with my summer clothes, but I understand the Mexican nights can be quite chilly. Should I take a coat? All advice gratefully received. Clio the Muse 01:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I've had some delightful vacations in Mexico City in February. It is cool at night and in the morning. Not as cool, though, as London in February. (Typically, around 8 C at the first light of dawn, but between 10 C and 15 C by the time most tourists venture out.) When I have gone, I have brought a spring/autumn jacket, and that has been sufficient. You might also bring a sweater so that you can double up (sweater plus jacket) if it is unusually cold and/or for your trip to and from Heathrow (or Gatwick). On the other hand, it is often quite warm, or even hot (around 25 C) during the afternoon, and the sun is typically scorching because of the altitude and latitude. Unless you have very dark skin, bring sun screen, as it may not be available or may be overpriced in Mexico .

I assume that you have a guidebook and know not to carry valuables, especially not on the subway/underground, and to sit in cars that are full but not too full, with your purse or backpack firmly closed or tied shut and in front of you where you can see it. Also, avoid the ubiquitous VW bug taxis, some of which are driven by armed robbers. If you want to take a cab, call a (more expensive but safer) radio taxi, or hire a cab at one of the cab stands for the regulated and safer cabs. A Lonely Planet Guide will give the latest tips on safety.

For transport, I had good experiences with both the metro/subway/underground and the peseros, or minibuses, which are a good way to reach places not near a metro stop. If you speak a little Spanish and have a sense of directions, just stand on the side of the major street running in the direction you want to go at a pesero stop and ask people how to get where you want to go. People will tell you which one to take, and if you need to transfer.

I strongly recommend the National Museum of Archaeology. Also, don't miss Diego Rivera's murals in the Palacio Nacional. To me, the most enjoyable neighborhood is Coyoacán, particularly Plaza Hidalgo, with its street musicians, Frida Kahlo museum, people watching, good restaurants, and generally wonderful atmosphere.

Also, you absolutely must make the excursion to Teotihuacán. It is really spectacular, particularly the climb to the top of the Temple of the Sun. I recommend taking the public bus from the main Norte bus station (accessible by metro) instead of the overpriced turista coaches that charge ten times as much for the same trip and insulate you from interacting with locals.

¡Buen viaje! Marco polo 02:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, if you expect an area to be rather slummy, by all means avoid it. Mexico's drug trade is getting dangerous, so watch out, and have a fun time. ;-) The velociraptor 03:52, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Great response, Marco Polo. You make me want to go there! Anchoress 06:36, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Here's WikiTravel's article on Mexico City[1]. Vranak

www.tripadvisor.com is a very good site for people's recommendations of places to stay, places to go and attractions etc (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g150768-Mexico-Vacations.html) is a Mexico page result. ny156uk 17:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, one and all. This is very much appreciated. Clio the Muse 19:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

A couple other points. I'm sorry that I did not mention restaurants or night spots. My last trip there was three years ago, such places tend not to be "in" for very long, and to be honest, I don't remember names of places I went. But I found them in a guidebook, and I remember that several of the meals were wonderful. Also, I have one more tip, regarding Xochimilco. The standard thing for tourists to do in Xochimilco is to take a trajinera (covered boat) from the Xochimilco village landing, typically with a mariachi band on board, and travel a very short distance through a canal filled with other trajineras and tourists and mariachi bands. You will embark briefly on an island filled with stands selling cheap souvenirs. This excursion has some campy, festive appeal, I suppose, but when I visit a foreign city, I want to experience an environment that does not revolve around tourists. I was much more satisfied with an excursion in a trajinera through the Parque Ecológico de Xochimilco, 1-2 km to the north of Xochimilco village along the Anillo Periferico Oriente. Here is a link. Some sources say that these trajineras travel only on weekends, but we went on a weekday and had a trajinera and the whole park to ourselves. You will see how chinampas, the basis of Aztec agriculture, are built and maintained, and you will travel along beautiful and very peaceful waterways that are a welcome break from the noise and frenzy that is Mexico City. Marco polo 19:23, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Going to America from England

Assuming I've never left England since birth, what would I have to do to get to America for a visit? I don't necessarily want you to give me all the info (though that would be great!); if you don't want to, could you tell me who I'd ask or where I'd go to find out how to do this? Vimescarrot (talk) 18:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

You'll need a current Uk Passport, you'll need to go here (http://www.visabureau.com/america/esta-visa.aspx) and complete a Electronic System for Travel Authorization as the UK is in the 'visa waiver program' for the US. All this assumes you mean the USA when you say America - if you want to go beyond the borders of the US (e.g. Canada, Mexico, any of South America) you'll need to check the requirements for those countries. Essentially go to the 'tourist info' website of the country you want to visit they'll detail what you need to do to gain entry to the country. The US doesn't (or didn't last time I went) charge for entry to the country - unlike places such as Turkey (at least when I went) and Mexico. ny156uk (talk) 18:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, yes, USA. Thank you. Vimescarrot (talk) 18:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

You also need to be able to persuade the immigration officer that you're really there to visit, and not planning on staying forever, making yourself a financial burden on the state, and working illegally. Mostly that just entails a return ticket, a credit card, and enough currency or travellers cheques to support yourself. In practice if you have a valid (for a year or so) passport, a return ticket, and don't look like a drug addict you'll find entry into the US entirely routine. That visa waiver program that Ny156uk mentioned (wherein you fill out an I-94W form on the plane) gives you 90 days; if you need more then you do need to apply for a US visa (which can be done by post; your local AA shop or travel agent can help a lot) and does cost (but not very much). 87.114.144.52 (talk) 19:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

On a side note, (if not outdated and I don't believe so) you should be able to give a destination where you will stay (at least initially) if possible. Can be a hotel reservation or private address like from a friend or family.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 19:59, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I second the Magnificent Clean-keeper. When I went to Florida a few months ago, I was blindsided when customs asked for my destination address. I had to call my dad to look it up for me, and as it was 6:30am, he wasn't too pleased. Make sure you have it written down and handy. Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 21:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Border officials almost always ask "What is the purpose of your visit?" Assuming that you want to have a look around, the best answer is "sightseeing" or "a holiday" (the American word is "vacation", but I'm sure they understand "holiday"). What they do not want to hear, and what could cause you trouble, would be to say that you want to look for work or are thinking of living here. (I'm in the States.) For those purposes, you would need a residence visa. The next question is usually "How long will you be here?" If it's a week or less, they may ask to see your return ticket and will probably move right on to "Where will you be staying?" They will want the address and the nature of the establishment, for example a hotel or a friend's house. If you are staying longer than a week or so, they will want to know how you are going to pay for your visit and maybe want to see some evidence that you have enough money to cover it. (Couldn't hurt to bring a bank statement if you plan to use ATMs.) They may also ask if there will be any other stops on your trip. Those are the usual questions. When you get through the border officials (officially known as "Immigration"), your next stop will be the customs desk. Unless you are bringing in alcohol, tobacco, thousands in cash, or valuables that you intend to sell or give away, you have "nothing to declare" to customs. They still might select you for a spot check and pull you aside to look through your luggage. Don't worry about it unless you are carrying something you don't want them to see (which is a bad idea in the first place.)

Obviously, you will also have to purchase a ticket (typically a plane ticket) to get across the ocean. You will need to show your passport to the staff before boarding the plane (or ship). Marco polo (talk) 22:57, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I can reiterate the importance of having an exact destination address, or at least a hotel name, for the immigration form you fill out on the plane. I read a newspaper column written by a Canadian who didn't have the exact address of the house he was to stay at in New York. The immigration officer got all fussy, he snapped back and the next thing he knew he was in a holding cell being threatened with arrest or a permanent ban from the U.S. That's another thing -- don't talk back to the immigration officers. Oh, and remember that in the U.S., you're supposed to tip waiters 15-20%, and if you don't, people will think you're a real jerk. The waiters are paid less than minimum wage because the law assumes people will tip them 15-20%. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

One more point: the US (like many countries) will not let you bring a range of foodstuffs into the country. Bovril is banned, for instance, whilst Marmite is fine. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Bovril is a meat product, and those are pretty much out. You can't bring in haggis, for example. Marmite is OK, because there are no special regulations about adhesives. PhGustaf (talk) 23:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

About tipping waiters, what Mwalcoff says is basically true. The same is true for cab drivers and barbers, by the way. There is an exception, though. If service is poor, you can tip less, like 10%. If service is terrible (they forget your order or spill things on you and don't apologize) you are entitled not to tip at all. Marco polo (talk) 00:16, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Um, let's be a little careful here. You tip cabbies and barbers -- but not 15%. Knowing just how much to tip is tricky, but they don't usually get tipped at waiter rates. I usually tip the barber a buck or two on an $18 haircut, and I'm always just guessing in cabs because I don't take them much. --Trovatore (talk) 10:00, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I never tip nothing at all. If I think the service is abominable, I leave a penny, so they know I didn't just forget. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 01:47, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

So long as you're coming on a well-planned holiday trip - you have money and passport, some place to stay and a plane ticked home with a firm return date - they're going to let you in. You can make the entry easy on yourself by having all of that information written down and tucked into your passport (you're going to be tired, confused and jetlagged). For don't attempt humor with the customs and immigration people - they don't seem to like it. For chrissakes NEVER tell them you plan to work here...even if it is obviously a business trip, tell them you're going to a sales conference or something where you aren't earning money.

Don't bring food or anything in any way "iffy" through customs/immigration. There are some things that are allowed - but a confusing and complicated list of things that aren't - so bring nothing. I once came over on a business trip on which my boss brought a sandwich with him in his briefcase because he doesn't like airline food - and didn't eat it on the plane. When the sniffer dog got excited about it - I sailed through immigration and customs - then had to sit in the arrivals hall for 90 minutes while my boss as pulled out of line and left sitting around alone in a windowless room for an hour for no readily apparent reason! There are worse horror stories - but they are very VERY rare.

Just be polite and as helpful as you can be - and it'll go smooth as silk.

Strong advice: Bring credit cards - most UK cards work OK here and they are the only way to pay for hotel and rental car - they literally won't take a cheque - they won't even take cash! Visa and Mastercard credit cards work in cash dispensers - everywhere takes them. I almost never use cash anymore. SteveBaker (talk) 02:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Probably best to avoid certain topics when talking to Mr. Customs Man; such as your recent release from prison; your side business as a drug smuggler; and your "friend" who knows Osama bin Laden personally. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:47, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Or the fact that you were a Nazi spy between 1933 and 1945? [2] AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 07:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

And don't make jokes with the officials, they (officially) don't have a sense of humour. -- SGBailey (talk) 08:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. You're all epic. If you've got more to add feel free, but I won't continue to respond unless I have questions. Thanks again! Vimescarrot (talk) 09:21, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Another notable point: if you're visiting the big cities of the east, or San Francisco, or (maybe) Las Vegas then you don't need a car, and one is mostly a liability. For the rest of the country, cities included, a car is essentially mandatory. -- 87.114.144.52 (talk) 10:52, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

The situation for many non-USA nationals is 1) You are refused an entry visa to the US until you have proven that you don't intend to enter the US illegally 2) You must do this by attending an interview at the US embassy in your own country, and you pay $100 for the interview 3) The burden of proof is on you and the instructions to interviewers are to treat everyone initially as intending to enter the US illegally 4) This applies even if your only purpose in entering the US is to change flights and you show prepaid air tickets as evidence 5) Signed statements from people that support you, including US citizen(s) who promise to provide you with money and housing, and who vouch for your travel plan are to be ignored 6) The interviewer's decision is final. You never get your $100 back and if refused you can only request another interview which will incur a long delay and another $100 from you... (and so it goes on but by then your prepaid flight is long gone) 7) One US embassy (Oslo) says you will get a visa refusal in writing with a reason and another US embassy (Guatemala) takes $100 and gives refusals (twice) but nothing in writing. Proviso I don't wish to give misleading information so I am willing to redact with apology any error found in what I posted. I am not a Guatemalan but anyone can see this US policy makes it almost impossible for a normal wage earning Guatemalan to visit N. Europe because the affordable flights all change in the US.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

If you go to american city

You will find it very pretty

Just two things you must beware

Don't drink the water and don't breathe the air -- Tom Lehrer

Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)