Template talk:Infobox sailboat specifications

Image size

I noticed that the size of the main image was reduced from 250px to 100px, which seems too small to me. I based the 250px size on the existing infobox itself, although I did notice that for images that are taller than they are wide, they seemed a bit big.

Is there a way to specify a max height and width (say width 250, height 150) such that any image would be scaled down just enough to fit in a 250×100 rectangle (but without distortion)?

For now I am going to make the image 180px wide (the same as a default thumbnail image). —MJBurrage^(T•C) 06:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Infobox standard

Usually, the infobox title says Name of Boat. Why does this infobox say "specifications under current rules"?? Timneu22 (talk) 14:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

When I first started adding infoboxes to pages, I took the layout from a class site. At the top of the site was specifications under current rules. I kind of like it that way because it states that the rules have not always been that way. People know the name of the boat from the title of the site and so it is unnecessary to restate it. Minnesota1 (talk) 07:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Vintage class

Is it possible to add, next to Olympic and Former Olympic class, Vintage class?

If possible Olympic class in gold, Vintage class in silver and former Olympic in bronze.

Vintage Classes are Former Olympic Classes that participate in the post Olympic Vintage Yachting Games. a 4 yearly event. First organized in 2008 Netherlands, Medemblik with Europe , Europe , O-Jolle, Flying Dutchman, Soling and Dragon and next time in 2012 Italy, Lake Como with probably also 12’ Dinghy, 12m² Sharpie, Tornado, Yngling, Tempest, 5.5 Metre, 6 Metre and 8 Metre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NED33 (talk • contribs) 13:25, 11 August 2009

Vintage class is still pretty new, and would not mean as much as former Olympic to many readers. Also the gold/bronze might look confusingly similar when they are on separate pages rather than side-by-side in the same table What about having three choices: 1) Olympic Class (in gold), 2) Vintage Olympic Class (in silver with link), and 3) Former Olympic Class (also in silver with link). —MJBurrage^(T•C) 15:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

New olympic field

There is a new field (below) that allows the setting of current, vintage, former, or nothing, that then creates the appropriate bar (with links for vintage and former.

|olympic       = 

This should be used from now on instead of the older olympic fields. —MJBurrage^(T•C) 16:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, this will work fine for now. When the Vintage becomes more known we might need to reconsider.NED33 (talk) 08:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Image size and alt tags

I know image size has been discussed before, but I found 150px to be a bit of a problem: images in portrait format, when limited to 150px high, become 100px wide, and that's not enough to see any of the salient features of the boat. (For example, the Mirror). It worked for landscape pictures, but I find that boat pictures are often going to be portrait to display the rigging. Rather than just change it and affect all of the uses of the infobox, I've added an optional imagesize attribute: when set, it overrides the default 250x150px, but when ignored, as it is on all current uses of the template, there's no change and the default sizes are used. While I was at it, I've noticed a push in parts of WP (mostly FAC, FAR & GAN, but I presume elsewhere) for alt tags to be included with images, so I added an optional alt tag

Both have been left out of the documentation in case someone has a problem with the changes. Both changes can be seen at Holdfast Trainer, although as an infobox it's a poor example, because I haven't been able to track down the boat's official specs yet. - Bilby (talk) 08:45, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Additional fields

Further to the above, I've been working on updating some of the classes that needed referencing, and as part of that I've been adding this Infobox. In doing so a couple of limitations came up, so I've added some more fields as a trial to see if they help. In doing so I've made sure that the fields have no impact if left blank, so that all current instances of the infobox are unaffected, and as before I haven't added the changes to the documentation, as I'd rather make sure that there are no problems with the changes first in case someone disagrees.

So, the additions:

• There was no distinction in the infobox for the type of boat, so I've added "type" to distinguish between catamarans, monohulls, trimarans, windsurfers and proas.
• Added "keel" for whether it is a fixed keel, swing keel, daggerboard, drop keel, centerboard, leeboard, etc.
• Added "trapeze", as in many classes the trapeze is either specifically included or excluded.
• Added fields for development information. Specifically "year", "designer", "country", "location" and the "role" for which it was developed (eg. sail training, racing, etc). These move things away a bit from specs, but do make the infobox a tad more comprehensive.

I've also added a "name" field. This was intended for the type of situation which emerges with the Javelin, where multiple specifications may exist for different versions of the general name, or with, for example, the Mosquito, which has Mark 1 and Mark 2 specifications, even though both are part of the one class and are raced concurrently. If the name field is included, the words "Current Specifications" are removed from the infobox header to be replaced with the name, and "Current Specification" then appears as a section header below the class symbol. This adds a degree of inconsistency between the uses of the infobox, so there may be a problem, but it ensures that the existing applications remain unaffected. - Bilby (talk) 01:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

One more change - sorry for dropping all these at once. When the class symbol failed to load, the existing template displays the image name, but it does so using the overly large font set for the class symbol text. To sidestep this bug, I've added the optional class_image, class_imagealt, and class_imagesize. If class_image is set, it overrides class_symbol, avoiding the problem. The other two are optional, but set the alt text (in this case a description of the symbol) and the image size, if it needs to be bigger than the default 80x80px max size.

I've used the Payne-Mortlock sailing canoe as an example of the changes, as I'm rather fond of them. :) You can also see on the Mirror article that the existing infoboxes remain substantially unaffected by the changes unless the new tags are added. - Bilby (talk) 07:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I've updated the documentation per the above changes. Hopefully there's no hassles with this. - Bilby (talk) 09:48, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Additional Fields - Session 2

I think a couple of additional fields may be useful. I think Boat Weight and Ballast Weight as would a field about ISAF status. One way this could be achieved if template length is an issue is to change "Hull Weight" to "Weight" and the entre for example "XYZkg Boat <.br > XYZkg Hull < br > XYZkg Keel". I am concerned about the template getting to long therefore would appreciate peoples thoughts on this matter. And whether they have any other thoughts. (talk) 12:56, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm generally in favour of more fields, Bilby; different things are important for different boats, so the as-used infoboxes are rarely anywhere near as long as the template. I find the development information particularly useful as it often gives the body of water something was designed for. I'd suggest adding "angle of vanishing stability" (with "self-righting" as an acceptable angle). Something to indicate a bit more of the data from an inclining test would be good; to show, say, that a Hobie cat with a masthead float cannot turtle. A graph of righting force as a function of angle might be best, but this is not available for many boats. HLHJ (talk) 02:28, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Further request/Issues with this template

As highlighted in Talk:Redwing_(keelboat) at least one boat class has no class symbol, and the colour of the material of the sail is integral to the identification of the class. This can be hacked in with 18 for the class_symbol but technically the class_symbol is as each boat has a unique number, as with the Opera Class. Alexx.net (talk) 16:14, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

not sure what you are asking, you can leave this field blank? Frietjes (talk) 01:14, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

I guess I'm starting a conversation about boat class identification as envisioned by this template. Many classes have a symbol, but before that became a thing classes, like signalling in a small town, ("why bother? Everyone knows where I'm going") some older classes don't have/put a symbol on their sail. In the case of the Redwing class the sail colour can be considered integral to the identification, (it is certainly distinct.) I'm pro-machine readable templates, but if the data being read is incorrect then it is unhelpful, and if we just leave it out, (in order to migrate to using this template) then the humans reading the Redwing wiki page loses out. alexx (talk) 19:51, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

so, would it be helpful to have an additional field that is an alternative to |class_symbol=, like |identification_symbol= or something? Frietjes (talk) 23:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Structure of Infobox

I started using this template and realised it had been added to without reviewing the structure of it. Therefore below is a proposed stucture that break the infobox down into zones that can be better managed and expanded as necessary. If a field has changed names the current fields will remain valid although it will not appear on the template page. I would appreciates people input on both the concept. I will expand the detail later. Yachty4000 (talk) 20:14, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Infobox sailboat specifications
|image = Current
BOAT
HULL
HULL APPENDAGES
RIG
SAILS
GENERAL
FOOTER

I am interested by your proposal. A few notes:

• keel_weight==ballast, but to be more precise, I would use keel_ballast (indeed a weight) and also add liquid_ballast (one or more volumes - not technically an appendage, but a characteristic of the hull)
• is loh a usual acronym? (I know IRC uses a proprietary measurement called LH, but usually designers use LOD (length On Deck) - in effect the length of the hull)
• I would add class (if the sailboat was built as part of a development class like the IYRU 12mR)
• I would also add gross tonnage, though this concerns the largest yachts only

signed:Donan Raven (talk, contribs) 22:28, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

I think the key thing is the structure and making it easy to adapt and expand if there is agreement. I have amended the post above to show what are modifications. Clearly if we do this we need to update the description and I plan to reference the dimensions to the ISAF Equipment Rule of Sailing. In regards to new fields how about we agree the new structure and then seperate the discussion. I have only introduced field linked to the info box functionality except on a couple of occasions.

+ Ballast I prefer

+ LH is inline with the ISAF Equipment Rule of Sailing see above

+ Class I agree with although it will have limited use

+ You can write tonnage in displacement field. There is infobox ship.

Yachty4000 (talk) 15:44, 23 June 2016 (UTC):

Ok I have implemented the new structure but not the new fields as I want to go through some iteration of the coding you can start to see in the background before updating the documentation. If anyone has any thoughts on fields I would love some input.

Yachty4000 (talk) 22:47, 4 July 2016 (UTC)::

Ok I have implemented the new structure and new fields for comments I feel a bit like I have done to much but there wasn't much community input. The structure is clearer but I am nervy at how long this template has become. I hope everyone likes the template now and sorry for the large number of edits I don't have much experience with these pages:::Yachty4000 (talk) 00:17, 8 July 2016 (UTC)::

Hull draft parameter

Why is it that when a number or conversion template is used for this parameter that it does not display in the infobox? See Bayfield 25 for an example. - Ahunt (talk) 13:44, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Request for handicap parameter

In the section for rating, d-pn etc. would it be possible to have a field for handicap in general? I'm trying to add some for Australian Boats under Class Based Handicap / Australian Trailerable Yachts and Sports Boat rule. A general field here would be helpful. For nor I am using rating.

Added TemplateData

I've added a section TemplateData in the template documentation. It makes it easier for users to edit the InfoBox using the VisualEditor (need to uncheck 'temporary disable visual editor while it is in beta') simon (talk) 13:03, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Added [editOnWikidata]

Hi, I added in the below cell of the template Template:EditOnWikidata to make it easier to update the corresponding Wikidata entry. The longer-term objective is to have the infobox display Wikidata info when available, while keeping the priority to any data inputted directly in the infobox. Meaning that if someone inputs a value directly in the infobox, this value will override whatever is in Wikidata. simon (talk) 01:32, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

merge draft & hull draft?

@Ahunt: Aren't 'draft' (data46 displayed in the Boat section) and 'hull draft' (data76 displayed in the Hull section) the same? Are you ok if I merge them? Here is a code proposal in sandbox and the associated test cases where you can see how it would render post-merge. simon (talk) 03:34, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I think that they are the same thing - not sure why they are two template entries. I have been using "draft" and leaving "hull draft" blank. Also the parameter "air draft" is obscure. At least one ref I have calls this "bridge clearance". - Ahunt (talk) 14:19, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

perfect. I'll merge "hull draft" into "draft". simon (talk) 03:42, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Do not merge, it is very clear hull draft is the draft of the hull, boat draft is the draft of the boat so the hull and hull appendages combined. Hull draft is often called canoe body draft but I went with the World Sailing Equipment Rules of Sailing when I did this. I thought I had made this clear in the item descriptions I will check this. In regards to the double entries of output criteria under a few criteria this is historic so that old templates would not be invalidated by my amendments to the structure. Yachty4000 (talk) 16:30, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

@Yachty4000: I looked in more details at the usage of the parameters of the infobox template. And did a summary for 'draft' and 'hull draft' here. You can see that out of the 1.5k sailboat infoboxes: ​833 use 'draft' and 219 use 'hull draft'. However, only 10 have data for both 'draft' and 'hull draft'. And out of these 10, 8 had the same data for both parameters. My opinion is that editors have inputted the draft of the boat in the field 'hull draft' instead of 'draft' 217 times; probably because 'hull draft' is placed just below LOA, LOH, LWL, Beam. I suggest to correct these 217 entries (via bot), place 'draft' below 'beam', and remove 'hull draft'. What do you think? simon (talk) 13:52, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Simon.letort: I wish I understood wikipedia to this level I end up building spreadsheet that write wikipedia tables and thats as far as I have got. I am not surprised so few templates have hull draft. It is relevant to lifting keel boats, dinghies and box rules but I suspect few have researched the data for the pages. Hull draft should be maintained as a place holder the whole template is based on the World Sailing Equipment Rules of Sailing structure. I think it would be quicker to fix those 10 pages manually but I don't understand bots. It would also be interesting how many hull drafts are over 500mm as these are 99% of the time wrong and actually draft values. Thanks for looking at this Yachty4000 (talk) 16:30, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata vs Wikicommon

simon you clearly understand these things by your latest amendments. Can you tell me whether the templates can be driven by wikicommon. I am not sure of the difference in purpose in wikicommon and wikidata except "common" seems better designed and linked in terms of powering databox where as I guess wikidata is more of a database but I am not really sure. Yachty4000 (talk) 16:30, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Wikicommons is a for "images, sounds, other media": boat pictures and logos in Commons. Wikidata (knowledge graph) is for structured data: boat designer, builder, LOA, draft, sails area, mast length, ... in Wikidata. Templates, in particular Infoboxes, can pull structured data from Wikidata and media from Wikicommons. We can do mass import of structured data into Wikidata which then allow to auto generate the Infobox, so that we can concentrate on writing content and not copy/pasting LOA, sail area... simon (talk) 17:26, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

If your in a position to add fields to wikidata then there is a lot we can do to simplify this template and improve wikipedia in other language we don't understand. See my comment above about hull draft. I have done quite a bit in wikicommon in terms of grouping and linking and a little on wikidata but found it limiting. If it is clever enough to allow data like a XML database then it has great potential for things like results as you can use the data in different ways. Yachty4000 (talk) 16:30, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, we can add fields to wikidata and generate the infobox or other template based on that data. see [sailboat infobox from wikidata]. More details on the Wikidata Sailing project (sister project of Wikipedia Sailing). You can ask there if you want help adding fields on a given topic simon (talk) 22:45, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Displacement displayed as "boat weight"

The template parameter "displacement" is rendered as "boat weight" in wiki. Boat weight in turn is hyperlinked to Displacement (ship). Many many pages are taking the value from the "displacement" field in sailboatdata.com (or others) and presenting it as boat weight. What is the reason for not displaying displacement as displacement? Cornellier (talk) 02:37, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

I agree, it should be changed to "displacement". - Ahunt (talk) 12:41, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

The source of the problem is in the infobox template here in this code:

|label44 = [[Displacement_(ship)|Boat weight]]

I propose changing the pipe from Boat weight to Displacement.

--Cornellier (talk) 02:09, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

That looks like it will do the trick. I have gone ahead and done that and it seems to be working fine in affected articles. - Ahunt (talk) 02:44, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

The purpose of my proposing the change here, rather than doing the change immediately, was to see if the original implementer or anyone else had any comment, not to go ahead and do the change 35 minutes later. But it's done now. Cornellier (talk) 15:30, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

The original template creator hasn't made an edit in 2.5 years and pretty much everyone else with any expressed past interest in the template or even the general subject are also long gone. It wasn't a big risk, as you can see by the lack of debate over the past 15 days. - Ahunt (talk) 23:31, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Plus sign

Why is there a plus sign after the image caption? Nardog (talk) 11:49, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

That only appears where there is a formatting error that has caused it. If you can indicate where you have seen that, I can probaly resolve it for you. - Ahunt (talk) 12:20, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Template:Infobox sailboat specifications#Example, TP 52, Europe (dinghy), 2.4 Metre. Added here by Simon.letort. I assume it was a mistake. Nardog (talk) 12:26, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

I am not seeing it added in that diff. It does occur when people use:

|image = 
|image caption =

Instead of

|image boat   = 
|image size        = 
|image alt         = 
|image caption     =

- Ahunt (talk) 12:49, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Look again. I've just removed it. Nardog (talk) 15:39, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Okay well thanks for doing that. - Ahunt (talk) 16:20, 4 April 2023 (UTC)