Template:Did you know nominations/X-Pyr

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:31, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

X-Pyr

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Created by Crum375 (talk). Self-nominated at 23:13, 7 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/X-Pyr; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

  • Will review. Longhornsg (talk) 04:43, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
  • Hook and article meet DYK eligibility requirements. QPQ completed. The Hondarribia image is free; however, the Port de la Selva image is lacking source information. The article is interesting, but my concern is that much of the article's content is not sourced to independent and objective WP:RS; instead it is pulled from the subject's website. Indeed, the subject lacks much WP:COVERAGE, other than in a niche interest magazine, and I'm not entirely convinced of the subject's WP:N. Should add content categories as well. Longhornsg (talk) 04:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
  • @Longhornsg: Thank you for your review. Regarding sources that show notability, I have added some more that are not from the organizers' website, so now out of the total of 10 references, 5 are from Cross Country Magazine, which is the main international news site for cross-country paragliding and hang gliding. Of the remainder, 4 references are from the x-pyr website, and I've added one from the The Bellingham Herald. So now most references are neutral, and not from the x-pyr site. As far as I know, X-Pyr is the second most important hike-and-fly international paragliding race in the world (after X-Alps), so it is definitely notable in the common sense of the word. As far as meeting WP:N, both neutral sites meet WP:RS hence the 6 (of 10) references provide notability. Regarding File:El Port de la Selva.jpg, I simply linked to the Commons image used in El Port de la Selva article. If that image is deemed inappropriate, I presume we'd have to remove it. Regarding categories, I've added a couple, will try to add more. Thanks, Crum375 (talk) 11:42, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
  • I've also added this reference, as another independent news item, which also supports the hook. Crum375 (talk) 15:49, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
  • Hi @Longhornsg: thanks for the work you did on the article (which I have tweaked a bit). On the sourcing front, here is the latest breakdown of the refs (total of 11 used), to address your concern that too many are from the subject's website and a "niche interest" source:
  • Independent reliable sources: 3
  • Cross Country Magazine (main paragliding/hang gliding publication): 4
  • Subject website (contest organizer, with most accurate rules, etc.): 4
So now the subject's official website is used in 4 of 11 refs, hopefully a low enough ratio. The Cross Country Magazine is the main English publication that covers international paraglider and hang-glider cross country competitions, so their use as a source is inevitable for a top level paragliding race.
I've also added some categories per your comment, feel free to suggest more if you can think of any. If you can think of anything else that needs to be done for DYK eligibility, let me know. Thanks, Crum375 (talk) 01:24, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
@Crum375:, thanks, looks much better. Looks good to me, but would like another editor to take an independent look given how much I've edited the article. Longhornsg (talk) 15:34, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
  • @Longhornsg: Thanks for the review and the work on the article, both much appreciated. Crum375 (talk) 15:40, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Crum375 and Longhornsg, does this nomination require another full review, or just someone to look over something specific? i would be happy to do either, but just wanted to make sure that i wasn't reduplicating any efforts. dying (talk) 16:13, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
@Dying: I believe Longhornsg has already reviewed it but recused himself since he made some edits in the process. So feel free to review it and let me know if you think anything else is needed. Thanks, Crum375 (talk) 16:50, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
Longhornsg? it looks like Crum375 is unsure if you have recused yourself, and i cannot tell if you are seeking a full review, or, for example, someone to comment on just your edits. dying (talk) 01:28, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I recused myself due to my extensive edits and requested a new editor review this DYK nomination with a set of clear eyes. Longhornsg (talk)

  • New reviewer needed to do a complete review of the nomination. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:56, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
    • Crum375, note that the numbers used below to refer to the sources are taken from this version of the article.
      • general: article is new enough and long enough.
      • policy:
        • article is neutral. earwig shows nothing of concern. spot checks of at least three different sources did not reveal any close paraphrasing.
          • i am having trouble verifying that "[t]here have been five editions of the race", and that "[a]ll four editions since 2014 have been won by Swiss pilot Chrigel Maurer" with either source 7 or source 8. i did notice that source 8 mentions that maurer has won the race four times, but it does not appear to state which four races he won. however, i am having trouble with the x-pyr.com site. does the results page give anything other than the final results of 42 participants in 2022?
            • "[t]here have been five editions of the race": The source for that was only in the lead (which was separated out by the previous reviewer). So I added another link for this paragraph too. It says in Spanish, "... y en este 2022 se celebra la quinta edición de esta competición" (loosely, "and this 2022 the fifth edition of this competition is being held")
            • "[a]ll four editions since 2014 have been won by Swiss pilot Chrigel Maurer": In source #2 you can see the statement about the "dominance of Christian Maurer since 2014", and more specifically you can find the linked results for each edition at the bottom of the same source, 2012-2022, to verify that Maurer won each edition 2014-2022. Note that 2020 was scrubbed due to Covid, thus total of 4 to date.
            • "does the results page give anything other than the final results of 42 participants in 2022?": No, the Results for each year is for that year only, but the "Bit of history" part, linked in source #2, gives the details for each edition since 2012. Crum375 (talk) 17:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
        • though a good deal of the article uses the official site as a source, i'm not that worried about this, as most of the statements supported by the official site satisfy the requirements of wp:aboutself, and the remainder are pretty much statements about how participants did in the race, which admittedly violate wp:aboutself simply because they are technically claims about third parties.
        • the source information for the second photo is actually on commons, in a comment under the file history section. unfortunately, the flickr source states that the photo was released under cc by-nc-sa 2.0, which, i believe, is incompatible for use on wikipedia, and i am unable to confirm that it was released under a less restrictive license earlier.
          • I found and replaced by a better licensed image (CCASA-4.0). Hopefully this one is better. Thanks! Crum375 (talk) 17:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
      • qpq: provided. thank you.
      • hook:
        • hook is under 200 characters, interesting, cited, and neutral.
        • i noticed that the gearjunkie.com source states that "45 pilots ... departed from Hondarribia" on the first day. do you know if there is a reason why the official site only gives results for 42 participants instead?
          • Per gearjunkie.com, 4 made it to the Goal, 28 were enroute when the race was called, and a further 13 dropped out before that point, which adds up to 45. In the linked Results page, only 12 are marked as OUT, for a total of 42. So according to the Results page 42-4-12=26 were called enroute. So there is a discrepancy between the sources. Since these are people that either dropped out or were well out of contention, and we don't mention them at all in the WP article, I guess we'll have to ignore this minor discrepancy, unless someone knows better. Whatever we do will be WP:OR-ish, so I'd just leave it in the words of the secondary source. In any case, good spotting! Crum375 (talk) 17:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
        • the article technically does not include the fact described in the hook, as the article states that "only four reached El Port de la Selva" rather than only four reached the goal. i'd suggest a change like adding "the goal in" after "reached", but wouldn't fail the hook on account of such a minor discrepancy.
          • Good point. This was in the original version as you can see in the History, but was removed by the previous reviewer. I have restored the wording. Thanks for pointing it out! Crum375 (talk) 17:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
      • points outside of the dyk criteria:
        • the first image used seems to depict central hondarribia, with its caption appearing to suggest that the start of the race was pictured. however, the coordinates for the start location, provided in the rules, appear to point to a sandy beach area at the northern end of hondarribia. would it be more appropriate to use a caption like "Hondarribia, the town from which the X-Pyr race begins" or something similar, to better avoid suggesting that the actual starting location was pictured? also, personally, i think the small size of the thumbnail doesn't do the photo justice, especially considering the unusual aspect ratio, though that's obviously your call.
          • I agree and have fixed up the caption a bit, hopefully that's now vague enough to allow for that physical start site north of town. As far as the thumbnail, I agree that the actual image is vastly better, but clicking on the image shows that hi-res version. I prefer not to increase the thumbnail size since it messes up the alignment (with some font sizes) given the current paucity of verbiage. Thanks, Crum375 (talk) 17:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
        • the race is misspelt as "X-Pry" once.
          • Another casualty of reviewer-editing, fixed. Thanks for pointing it out! Crum375 (talk) 17:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
        • is there a reason why maurer is described as having completed the 2022 race 12 hours faster than pinot rather than 13 hours?
          • Not sure how it became "over 12", but you are correct and I've fixed it. Thanks! Crum375 (talk) 17:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
        • may i suggest including a simple list of winners? something like this one should be more than sufficient (though i may be biased as i added that table myself). it's obviously not necessary, though, and in this case, would pretty much be dominated by maurer anyway.
          • I have considered that. As you may be aware, the German version has all the results included, not just the winners. But you are right about the Maurer domination, if we included winners only, it would look kind of lob-sided, while including everything (which might yet happen over time) might be an overkill for now. But that's just my opinion, and who knows where the article will go over time. Crum375 (talk) 17:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
    dying (talk) 09:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
  • @Dying: Thanks again for all your detailed and thoughtful suggestions and comments, addressed per above, and all very much appreciated! Crum375 (talk) 17:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
    • Crum375, thanks for addressing these issues.
      • although source 8 was the first source i spot-checked, i eventually realized that the assertion that "[a]ll four editions since 2014 have been won by Swiss pilot Chrigel Maurer" was true. however, as the assertion technically failed verification, since neither source 7 nor source 8 supports it, i had thought it would be worth it to mention this issue. source 1 is now also cited, but that source makes no mention of maurer. (thanks for providing the translation.) the issue can easily be addressed by also citing source 2, but i don't want to hold up a nomination for something so minor since the article already passed all my other spot checks, so i'll let it go.
      • nice replacement image. interestingly, i think i actually like this one more than the one it replaced.
      • digging a little deeper, i was able to find a source reporting on some teams that had to withdraw before the race. given that the rules allow for a maximum of 45 teams, i am inclined to believe that the official results are complete, and that source 8 may have simply based their numbers on the assumption that 45 teams were competing.
      • oh, i had not realized that there were some alignment issues in the lead when using different font sizes. thanks for letting me know.
      • yeah, i agree that adding extensive results would be overkill. it would also dissuade future editors from updating the page, as they may feel obligated to provide similarly extensive results in an update. in any case, the article is fine without such a list.
    dying (talk) 09:13, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
alt0 approved. dying (talk) 09:13, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
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