Template:Did you know nominations/William H. Herriman
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 07:13, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
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William H. Herriman[edit]
- ... that William H. Herriman donated artworks to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Brooklyn Museum (Millet painting pictured), and his sister founded the world's first skyscraper hospital?
- Reviewed: Theophilus Jones (Royal Navy officer)
Created by Philafrenzy (talk), Edwardx (talk). Nominated by Edwardx (talk) at 22:49, 7 July 2014 (UTC).
- ALT1 ... that William H. Herriman and his wife are buried at the Non-Catholic Cemetery in Rome, as are the poets Keats and Shelley. Philafrenzy (talk) 22:53, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
New (30th), long enough, neutral, no copyvio found via spot check, QPQ done. Hook doesn't have an immediate ref in article (see 3b). A few problems with the sources: Find-a-grave is not reliable and I'm not sure why that ancestry listserv is being used as a reliable source. Additionally, the sources do not make the subject's notability stark—are there any sources that cover him as an individual? Please ping me if I don't respond. czar ♔ 04:14, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- There's a direct ref for the donation of the Millet painting and although findagrave is not a RS it does include pictures of the graves and the details are confirmed by the database search at http://www.cemeteryrome.it/infopoint/EnCerca.asp which unfortunately can't be linked to directly. Notability is based on the General Notability Guideline. Rootsweb is only being used to state that Herriman and his wife had no children (which could be removed) and for details of his sister which is already in the Polhemus Memorial Clinic article. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:39, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- I'm familiar with how the GNG and notability work—I'm saying that adding a few sources that discuss him specifically instead of compiling sources that briefly mention him in passing would do better towards proving his notability. Not the concern of this DYK—just a suggestion. Rootsweb is user-contributed and cannot be cited as a reliable source. Same for Find-a-grave. The direct ref means that the ref needs to come directly following the sentence's punctuation (see 3b). czar ♔ 04:22, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Rootsweb has been replaced with the original source. We don't have an alternative source for findagrave and there remains one reference for that which is not to anything mentioned in either hook. I am not sure which hook we are now talking about. Where do you think a reference ought to appear and for which hook and stated fact? Philafrenzy (talk) 09:08, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- After "in private hands" for the Met part, after "for this work" for the hospital part. (Again, 3b makes this point really clear.) And Find-a-grave still needs to go. We don't keep unreliable sources just until more reliable sources show up... the idea is that we can't trust unreliable sources in the first place. czar ♔ 15:05, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Amended. Moved findagrave to the external links. Philafrenzy (talk) 00:13, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
- Changed "endowed" to "founded" in the hook to match source. Find-a-grave is usually not used as an external link, but I'll leave that for someone else to push. However, there is still a "findagrave" ref used in the article. On the hospital, are you sure she is his brother? It isn't made clear in the source used, just that her brother is Wm. Herriman, but her father was also a Wm. Herriman so who knows how many others there are. Also Keats and Shelley aren't mentioned in the article, if you still want to run ALT1. czar ♔ 16:36, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
- Ref 5 here confirms the relationship. The other matters have been dealt with. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:10, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
- Changed "endowed" to "founded" in the hook to match source. Find-a-grave is usually not used as an external link, but I'll leave that for someone else to push. However, there is still a "findagrave" ref used in the article. On the hospital, are you sure she is his brother? It isn't made clear in the source used, just that her brother is Wm. Herriman, but her father was also a Wm. Herriman so who knows how many others there are. Also Keats and Shelley aren't mentioned in the article, if you still want to run ALT1. czar ♔ 16:36, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
- Amended. Moved findagrave to the external links. Philafrenzy (talk) 00:13, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
- After "in private hands" for the Met part, after "for this work" for the hospital part. (Again, 3b makes this point really clear.) And Find-a-grave still needs to go. We don't keep unreliable sources just until more reliable sources show up... the idea is that we can't trust unreliable sources in the first place. czar ♔ 15:05, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Rootsweb has been replaced with the original source. We don't have an alternative source for findagrave and there remains one reference for that which is not to anything mentioned in either hook. I am not sure which hook we are now talking about. Where do you think a reference ought to appear and for which hook and stated fact? Philafrenzy (talk) 09:08, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- I'm familiar with how the GNG and notability work—I'm saying that adding a few sources that discuss him specifically instead of compiling sources that briefly mention him in passing would do better towards proving his notability. Not the concern of this DYK—just a suggestion. Rootsweb is user-contributed and cannot be cited as a reliable source. Same for Find-a-grave. The direct ref means that the ref needs to come directly following the sentence's punctuation (see 3b). czar ♔ 04:22, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
hooks gtg czar ♔ 22:12, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
