Template:Did you know nominations/Omen (Antestor album)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 07:36, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
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Omen (Antestor album)[edit]
- ... that while on tour in Brazil to promote its new album Omen, the band Antestor (guitarist Lars Stokstad pictured) was attacked by Satanist black metal fans angered by the Christian beliefs of the band members?
Created by 3family6 (talk). Self-nominated at 22:10, 16 April 2015 (UTC).
- Reviewed: Clayton Knight
No copyvio, no dead links, and the hook is also supported by numerous other websites such as metal archive. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 18:14, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Sorry but I felt I had to pull this. The article doesn't actually say that the 100 protesters were hostile to Christianity, rather that a band member seemed to think that's what was going on. Furthermore, this seems to be some kind of intra-genre turf war, possibly with religion just an excuse for fans of one band to act out at another band. What exactly do the sources say, and what exactly are these sources? EEng (talk) 19:43, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
- The introductory sentences of paragraph two in the "Brazilian tour" section explain it: "While Antestor was playing at Belo Horizonte, the venue was mobbed by Satanist black metal fans who protested against the band members' Christian beliefs. The band had received over three hundred threats, including death threats, since its announcement of the tour in October 2012." That first sentence explicitly states that they were hostile to Christianity. The sources are Aftenposten, Dagen, and NRK. All three of these are highly reputable publications (Dagen is a Protestant media source, but is still reliable, while the other two have no religious affiliation). All three of these expressly state that the band was attacked because of its Christian beliefs. I did have translation difficulties, since I don't know Norwegian and had to rely on Google translate. EEng, you are right about the "intra-genre" turf war, but the war is about religion. Black metal emerged as an explicitly anti-Christian music genre, that's what was "black" about it in the 1980s. Antestor played/plays the same style of music as other bands that emerged in the early Norwegian black metal scene, and since its very early days in the early 90s, it has drawn ire from many anti-Christian musicians and fans. Euronymous (an extremely influential musician in the scene) was asked by Faust (another very influential figure in the scene) if he had any advice as to how the members of Antestor (then known as Crush Evil) should be killed ([1]). Euronymous stopped short of endorsing murder, but said that the band should be stopped. How much of this was for shock value is difficult to assess, but considering that numerous historic churches were burned (some of these churches almost 1,000 years old) by some members in the scene, there clearly was violent opposition to Christianity in the scene.
- The Norwegian (and global) scene has changed a lot in the over twenty years since, which is why the band members were surprised at the violence that they encountered in Brazil. Anyway, that's the history behind this. There is no indication in the reliable sources that there was a motivation other than religion behind the protests. Also, the one "hattoprop" (not sure what the word is in English, if there is one) mentioned and linked to in the Aftenposten article confirms this as well (again, I had to Google translate). The summary mentions "white metal" (a synonym for Christian metal that arose in the 80s in opposition to the Satanist shock lyrics of black metal), at one point calling it "cultural plagiarism". The flier or whatever itself I can't confirm directly, as I do not know Portuguese. I do see "HORDA" in caps, which might be a reference to Horde, another "un"black metal band that stirred up controversy in the scene due to the musician's Christian beliefs (I could be wrong about this, as, like I said, I can't read Portuguese. If there is an editor who can read Portugese, maybe they can help here).
- My point to all this is that there is a history of opposition to this band because of its Christian beliefs (as it performs in a genre in which the majority of those involved are vehemently anti-Christian, some even embracing theistic Satanist or neo-pagan beliefs), that can be confirmed from both the band's point of view and from antagonists. Unless you have found some other reliable or primary source that indicates that the protesters had other motives other than hostility to Christianity, what reason do we have to challenge the statements made in three third-party, independent reliable sources, supported by at least one primary source from some of the opposition?--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 01:28, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Apologies for missing the opening bit of the paragraph. I'll blame it on the fact that im working on a teensy mobile device. You explanation is, um, abundantly adequate, though all that was really needed was explicit confirmation of exactly what the sources say. (Glad too see I was right about the genre war.) EEng (talk) 01:46, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, I aspire to become a university professor, and at times will go into lectures given the right prompts. I wasn't sure exactly what issue you had with the article, so I tried to cover all the bases. :)--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 02:04, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, Professor, I'm sure had we been live in the classroom you'd have cut it back a bit when you saw my eyes glaze over. Despite the wall of text I still like you. ;P EEng (talk) 02:27, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks. It was one of those things where I kind of just started adding on as I went. As the first section of WP:TL;DR states in its opening: "Many people who edit Wikipedia do so because they enjoy writing; however, that passion can result in overlong composition."--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 02:35, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- See User:EEng#Another_wise_man_once_said.... EEng (talk) 03:53, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks. It was one of those things where I kind of just started adding on as I went. As the first section of WP:TL;DR states in its opening: "Many people who edit Wikipedia do so because they enjoy writing; however, that passion can result in overlong composition."--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 02:35, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, Professor, I'm sure had we been live in the classroom you'd have cut it back a bit when you saw my eyes glaze over. Despite the wall of text I still like you. ;P EEng (talk) 02:27, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, I aspire to become a university professor, and at times will go into lectures given the right prompts. I wasn't sure exactly what issue you had with the article, so I tried to cover all the bases. :)--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 02:04, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
