Template:Did you know nominations/John Neilson (Lower Canada politician)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet talk 16:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

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John Neilson (Lower Canada politician)

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John Neilson
John Neilson
  • ... that John Neilson was a Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada who supported nationalist L-J Papineau, opposed the 1837 Rebellion, and then was a leader of the French-Canadian group in Parliament? Source: Dictionary of Canadian Biography: "John Neilson": (1) Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada in first two paras; (2) support for Papineau "In a way he constituted a moral security essential to this party, which was too closely identified with the French Canadians. He complemented Papineau by exhorting him frequently to have patience and perseverance – qualities Papineau admitted he did not possess. "; (3) opposition to rebellions: "What he was again seeking was the righting of abuses, but without sedition or revolt. He vainly tried to avert the rebellions.". For leadership of French-Canadian group in Parliament: J.M.S. Careless, The Union of the Canadas — The Growth of Canadian Institutions, 1841–1857 (Toronto: McClelland and Stewart, 1967), p. 5: "The most prominent spokesman for the French-Canadians at present seemed to be John Neilson ... now was in the forefront of French agitation for repeal."
    • ALT1: ... that John Neilson (pictured), a Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada, was a major publisher, later a leader of a French-Canadian group in Parliament, and left an estate of over £30,000 in assets and £25 in debts? Source: Dictionary of Canadian Biography: "John Neilson": (1) Scottish immigrant in first two paras; (2) major publisher: "Neilson was primarily a printer, publisher, and bookseller,"; "Besides the printing-shop and the newspaper, Neilson owned the principal bookshop in the Canadas until the 1820s." (3) value of estate: "The inventory of the Neilsons’ community of property, made almost 20 years after John’s death, still listed £30,143 6s. 8d. in debts owing to it and £692 in personal estate, against only £25 in liabilities." For leader of French-Canadian group in Parliament: J.M.S. Careless, The Union of the Canadas — The Growth of Canadian Institutions, 1841–1857 (Toronto: McClelland and Stewart, 1967), p. 5: "The most prominent spokesman for the French-Canadians at present seemed to be John Neilson ... now was in the forefront of French agitation for repeal."
    • ALT2: ... that John Neilson (pictured), a Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada, became a major publisher and bookseller, and at one point was the single biggest consumer of paper in the province? Source: Dictionary of Canadian Biography: "John Neilson": (1)Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada in first two paras; (2) major publisher and bookseller: "Neilson was primarily a printer, publisher, and bookseller,"; "Besides the printing-shop and the newspaper, Neilson owned the principal bookshop in the Canadas until the 1820s."; (3) biggest consumer of paper: Neilson was primarily a printer, publisher, and bookseller, “the largest consumer of paper in this country,” according to his rival James Brown of Montreal.
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/John Company (board game)
    • Comment: I've just missed the 7 day deadline; apologies; got tied up with some IRL stuff; hope it can still be considered. I need to do a QPQ; will hunt one out and get to work on it.

5x expanded by Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk). Self-nominated at 14:35, 3 September 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/John Neilson (Lower Canada politician); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

  • Hi, sorry for the delay. Some IRL stuff has intervened but I will try to get it done tonight. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 12:00, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes, this nomination still needs to be reviewed by another reviewer. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:48, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Nomination withdrawn, as Narutolovehinata5 has made it clear that DYK is not interested in Canadian politics or history. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 17:03, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
    • Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, are you sure you want to withdraw? I've been watching this one for a while hoping to promote it -- I'm willing to review (and thus not promote) considering how long it's been around for. Vaticidalprophet 09:07, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
Please don't withdraw the nomination. My intention was not to downplay Canadian politics on DYK and I apologize if my words gave that impression. In fact, I actually think ALT2 is a pretty good hook! Though I suppose with ALT2, we could just focus on the "biggest consumer of paper" angle? The other parts seem to complicate the hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:13, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

 Reviewing... Flibirigit (talk) 15:59, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

  • I will continue to review this off and on today and tomorrow. In the meantime, a citation is needed for his published works. Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 16:12, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Will post my full review on October 8. Flibirigit (talk) 01:00, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough

Policy compliance:

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: No - ?
  • Interesting: Yes
QPQ: Done.

Overall: The article was expanded more than fivefold from May to August 2023, and nominated for DYK eight days after the expansion completed. WP:IAR is appropriate here to accept a substantial contribution to Wikipedia. Length is adequate, and the article is neutral in tone. Sourcing in the article is mostly complete. Two direct quotes need a citation at the end of the sentence as per WP:DYKCRIT. The "Published works" section needs a citation. No plagiarism concerns were found. All images in the article are in the public domain, although no image is used in this nomination. The QPQ requirement is complete. Hook ALT0 is unlikely to be interesting to a broad audience, unless the reader knows about Papineau or the rebellion. I have struck ALT0. Hooks ALT1 and ALT2 will both be interesting to a broad audience. The wording of ALT1 needs a slight adjustment. It reads as if the estate was valued at £30,000 when he died, as opposed to 20 yeas after his death. ALT2 cannot be verified as is. The hook reads "the single biggest consumer of paper in the province", whereas the article states "was one of the largest consumers of paper in Lower Canada." Further, the sentence which supports the hook is not cited immediately at the end as per WP:DYKCRIT. Overall, this is a welcome contribution to Wikipedia, and I look forward to seeing it on the main page. Flibirigit (talk) 12:25, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

@Mr Serjeant Buzfuz: Have you addressed the above? Z1720 (talk) 18:33, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
I am marking this as rejected, per this message on my talk page: [1]. Z1720 (talk) 18:46, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
I prefer to see this nomination adopted than rejected. I might do the work myself on the weekend. Flibirigit (talk) 19:47, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
I have made some change to address the sourcing concerns in my review. I will work on the hooks this week, then ask for a follow up review. Flibirigit (talk) 01:25, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
  • ALT1a: ... that John Neilson (pictured), a Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada, was a major publisher, and later a leader of a French-Canadian group in Parliament? Source: Dictionary of Canadian Biography: "John Neilson": (1) Scottish immigrant in first two paras; (2) major publisher: "Neilson was primarily a printer, publisher, and bookseller,"; "Besides the printing-shop and the newspaper, Neilson owned the principal bookshop in the Canadas until the 1820s." (3) value of estate: "The inventory of the Neilsons’ community of property, made almost 20 years after John’s death, still listed £30,143 6s. 8d. in debts owing to it and £692 in personal estate, against only £25 in liabilities." For leader of French-Canadian group in Parliament: J.M.S. Careless, The Union of the Canadas — The Growth of Canadian Institutions, 1841–1857 (Toronto: McClelland and Stewart, 1967), p. 5: "The most prominent spokesman for the French-Canadians at present seemed to be John Neilson ... now was in the forefront of French agitation for repeal."
  • ALT1b: ... that John Neilson (pictured), a Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada, was a major publisher, and left an estate valued as £30,000, 20 years after his death? Source: Dictionary of Canadian Biography: "John Neilson": (1) Scottish immigrant in first two paras; (2) major publisher: "Neilson was primarily a printer, publisher, and bookseller,"; "Besides the printing-shop and the newspaper, Neilson owned the principal bookshop in the Canadas until the 1820s." (3) value of estate: "The inventory of the Neilsons’ community of property, made almost 20 years after John’s death, still listed £30,143 6s. 8d. in debts owing to it and £692 in personal estate, against only £25 in liabilities." For leader of French-Canadian group in Parliament: J.M.S. Careless, The Union of the Canadas — The Growth of Canadian Institutions, 1841–1857 (Toronto: McClelland and Stewart, 1967), p. 5: "The most prominent spokesman for the French-Canadians at present seemed to be John Neilson ... now was in the forefront of French agitation for repeal."
    • Proposed two variants above from ALT1. Will propose variant of ALT2 shortly. Flibirigit (talk) 21:32, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
  • ALT2a: ... that John Neilson (pictured), a Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada, became a major publisher and bookseller, and was reportedly "the largest consumer of paper in this country"? Source: Dictionary of Canadian Biography: "John Neilson": (1)Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada in first two paras; (2) major publisher and bookseller: "Neilson was primarily a printer, publisher, and bookseller,"; "Besides the printing-shop and the newspaper, Neilson owned the principal bookshop in the Canadas until the 1820s."; (3) biggest consumer of paper: Neilson was primarily a printer, publisher, and bookseller, “the largest consumer of paper in this country,” according to his rival James Brown of Montreal.
    • New hooks have been proposed above, in addition to the changes made in the article as per my original review. New reviewer needed to check the hooks and changes. Flibirigit (talk) 21:43, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
      • Approved ALT2a, which is the most interesting of the hooks, especially with an adjustment such as ALT2b: ... that John Neilson (pictured), a Scottish immigrant to Lower Canada, was reportedly "the largest consumer of paper in [the] country"? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:34, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
        • I agree with the shorter hook. Flibirigit (talk) 01:06, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
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