Template:Did you know nominations/Double Concerto (Henze)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:41, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
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Double Concerto (Henze)[edit]
Hans Werner Henze in 1960
... that Hans Werner Henze (pictured) composed his Double Concerto for the oboist Heinz Holliger, his harpist wife Ursula, and 18 string soloists of Paul Sacher's Collegium Musicum Zürich?Source: [1]
- Reviewed: Oak at the Gate of the Dead
Created by Ron Oliver (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 15:49, 13 March 2018 (UTC).
New, in time, long enough, sourced, no apparent copyvios, QPQ done. Changed the hook slightly (before it could be read either that Ursula Holliger was a harpist, or that she the harpist were separate people). Gerda Arendt, what source says that the piece was composed for those people specifically (i.e., with them in mind), rather than simply that those people were the ones to premiere it? --Usernameunique (talk) 16:11, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- I will look, but I'm only the nominator, and it may take some time. - I confess that "harpist wife" sounds funny for a German ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:04, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Just added the reference. The original text reads: "The Double Concerto was written for Heinz Holliger and his harpist wife Ursula, and its most striking outward feature is its brilliantly effective use". They weren't the dedicatees, so I'd argue putting it like that makes sense. Oboe and harp seems like a weird choice for a double concerto. Coming to think of it, harpist wife sounds strange to me as well. Ron Oliver (talk) 21:39, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks Ron Oliver & Gerda Arendt. Have to agree with you on "harpist wife", that was an unfortunate rephrasing on my part. Perhaps we can put the wife first, to "for the harpist Ursula Holliger, her oboist husband Heinz, and..."? --Usernameunique (talk) 21:59, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- How is oboist husband any better?
- ALT1:
... that Hans Werner Henze (pictured) composed his Double Concerto for oboe and harp for Heinz Holliger, his wife Ursula, and 18 string soloists of Paul Sacher's Collegium Musicum Zürich?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:06, 30 March 2018 (UTC) 
Approving ALT1. Gerda Arendt, I prefer "oboist husband" to "harpist wife" because the latter carries the (possibly gendered) connotations of "harpy" and "harping". --Usernameunique (talk) 22:51, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, I came by to promote ALT1, but I don't see the connection in the article between the 18 string soloists and the Collegium Musicum Zürich. I see that the piece was commissioned for the Collegium, and that it's scored for 18 string soloists, but is there a source connecting the two as in the hook fact? Yoninah (talk) 01:20, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I don't see how that can be not connected. - How else could we say that it's 18 individual string parts, which is unusual, - 5 is normal, 2 violins, viola, cello, bass. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:01, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would leave off the end:
- ALT2:
... that Hans Werner Henze (pictured) composed his Double Concerto for oboe and harp for Heinz Holliger, his wife Ursula, and 18 string soloists?Yoninah (talk) 10:56, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Why leave out Sacher who commissioned it - and who will be better known than the Holligers? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Well, I can't read the source, but the article says it was composed for Heinz Holliger and his wife Ursula Holliger and premiered at Collegium Musicum Zürich. Could we write it that way?
- ALT3:
... that Hans Werner Henze's (pictured) Double Concerto for oboe and harp, which he composed for Heinz Holliger and his wife Ursula,Yoninah (talk) 19:30, 8 April 2018 (UTC)premiered atwas premiered by Paul Sacher's Collegium Musicum Zürich?
- Collegium Musicum is the orchestra. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:18, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I guess I better give up ;) - I still believe the 18 string parts are more interesting than an orchestra with no article (yet), and don't like "pictured" between a possessive and the key thing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:34, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- ps: [2] has Auftragswerk = commission --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:39, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: I'm not giving up yet. How about:
- ALT4:
... that the Double Concerto for oboe and harp was composed by Hans Werner Henze (pictured) for Heinz Holliger and his wife Ursula, and performed by 18 string soloists of Paul Sacher's Collegium Musicum Zürich?Yoninah (talk) 18:54, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Nice, thank you, I'd say "with" instead of "by", - but feels too long. "orchestra" for "Collegium Musicum Zürich"? (His Basler Kammerorchester was better known, and most of the famous commissions were for them.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- OK. We don't have to say everything in a hook:
- ALT4a: ... that the Double Concerto for oboe and harp was composed by Hans Werner Henze (pictured) for Heinz Holliger and his wife Ursula, and performed with 18 string soloists of Paul Sacher's orchestra? Yoninah (talk) 20:35, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Fine, thanks for not giving up! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:48, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Nice, thank you, I'd say "with" instead of "by", - but feels too long. "orchestra" for "Collegium Musicum Zürich"? (His Basler Kammerorchester was better known, and most of the famous commissions were for them.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Why leave out Sacher who commissioned it - and who will be better known than the Holligers? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I don't see how that can be not connected. - How else could we say that it's 18 individual string parts, which is unusual, - 5 is normal, 2 violins, viola, cello, bass. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:01, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks Ron Oliver & Gerda Arendt. Have to agree with you on "harpist wife", that was an unfortunate rephrasing on my part. Perhaps we can put the wife first, to "for the harpist Ursula Holliger, her oboist husband Heinz, and..."? --Usernameunique (talk) 21:59, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Just added the reference. The original text reads: "The Double Concerto was written for Heinz Holliger and his harpist wife Ursula, and its most striking outward feature is its brilliantly effective use". They weren't the dedicatees, so I'd argue putting it like that makes sense. Oboe and harp seems like a weird choice for a double concerto. Coming to think of it, harpist wife sounds strange to me as well. Ron Oliver (talk) 21:39, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- I will look, but I'm only the nominator, and it may take some time. - I confess that "harpist wife" sounds funny for a German ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:04, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
