Talk:Western Cape

Assessment Comment

Among the enhancements awaited are significantly more references.Gallador (talk) 23:55, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Figures

Figures have been edited by an IP used by a known vandale, User:205.188.116.74. Please vet the changes. --Wetman 06:35, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The changes made by that IP were only to the dollar comparison (at a rate of R6.65 to the US$), so it seems like nothing fundamental was changed. As for the other more recent changes, please add sources - anonymous unattributed changes don't help too much. --Greenman 14 Jun 2005.

Municipal Demarcation

There has been changes in the demarcation of local municipalities and no mention is made that "local" muncipalities are grouped together into six "district" muncupalities. More info can be found at Municipal Demarcation Board and offical Weastern Cape government source . I attempted to start the process at Western Cape Province but links from that page need to be modified and the template at the bottom as well. So this should be a bottom-up edit and not top-down, and the local-municipal pages need to be changed/moved first. -- Warpedshadow 15:44, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I have re-organised all the WC municipalities into there districts and moved some of the pages to their new names. Warpedshadow 01:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Province

Note: this discussion has been moved to Talk:Provinces of South Africa#Province article naming. Please add any new comments there.

After the long debate about whether or not to call Cape Town, City of Cape Town... I have another! :) What's everyone's view on using the word Province for all the provinces? It looks odd to me, and I know I'd never say 'Western Cape Province' or 'Gauteng Province'. They're just Western Cape, Gauteng, Mpumalanga etc. Joziboy 15 March 2006, 20:06 (UTC)

I know what you mean - certainly I wouldn't normally say "Western Cape Province", and it feels kind of wrong on all the articles. However, it is quite normal to talk about North West Province and Limpopo Province, if only to distinguish them from the cardinal direction and the river respectively. It seems to me that there are three choices:

1. sticking with the "Province" suffix on all 9 articles, which is probably technically correct with respect to the full name of the governmental entity - and after all, SA provinces are purely government entities; the provinces don't really have geographical significance.
2. dropping "Province" on the articles except Limpopo and North West, which would seem less wrong, but it wouldn't really be consistent.
3. dropping "Province" on all the articles, and change Limpopo to "Limpopo (South African province)" and similarly for North West. It also seems less wrong (to me), and more consistent with Wikipedia standards for disambiguating article titles.

I would be in favour of number 3, but I don't really have a strong opinion any way. - htonl 22:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I wouldn't say Limpopo Province either. Prepositions usually clear up any confusion - "I'm going to Limpopo", "What's the capital of Limpopo?", "We have a house in Limpopo" all make it sound like it's the province. Else it would be the Limpopo. But yeah, I suppose it's not the end of the world either way. It just looks odd - we don't call South Africa "South Africa Country" :) Anyways, option 3 sounds good to me. Joziboy 16 March 2006, 15:13 (UTC)

Yup, count me in on #3 as well. I would very, very rarely add "province" when referring to any of our provinces. dewet|™ 15:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I've copied this discussion to Talk:Provinces of South Africa#Province article naming, as it would seem to be more correct to have it there. - htonl 18:54, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Note: this discussion has been moved to Talk:Provinces of South Africa#Province article naming. Please add any new comments there.

Dissent on HIV/AIDs

I read that Western Cape broke with the national government on President Thabo Mbeki's policy of AIDs denial, significantly reducing death and infection rates compared to the rest of the country. I haven't found further references. Who was responsible for defying national policy? Were there repercussions? With more references, I might suggest including something on this issue, though I can't say where it would best fit. SpaceToast (talk) 16:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

WP:NOTFORUM

AFRIKAANSLAND The same way Lower Canada gave birth to QUEBEC Western South Africa will give birth to AFRIKAANSLAND with Afrikaans as the official language and driving thousands of Afrikaans-speaking South Africans to Afrikaansland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.24.243.144 (talk) 15:46, 12 October 2008 (UTC) That's moronic. Please don't hurt yourself.RiseRepublic (talk) 17:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC) According to the census, only 20 % of the residents of the Western Cape speak English as their home language. Yet, the Premier of the Western Cape, who is from a party that claims to support multilingualism, delivers her State of the Province Address entirely in English. It is particularly shocking that Mrs. Zille, who is allegedly fluent in Afrikaans, couldn't make room for at least one paragraph in the language that is spoken by almost 50 % of the citizens she serves as head of the provincial government. I wonder why Western Capetonians do not demand a multilingual provincial government similar to the federal government of Canada for example. 161.24.19.112 (talk) 17:37, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

ANC Mandate

The first part of the introduction is accurate enough. However to say that "the Western Cape set itself apart early in post-apartheid South African history by being one of the two provinces to have rejected an ANC mandate" is overly political, and rather irrational. There was nothing automatic about ANC rule. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 03:14, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Population Statistics

The population figures for Cape Town are not updated with figures from the 2011 census and do not reflect the proper demographics of the Western Cape population. Similarly, the page mentions that that Somerset West has a population of over 100 000 and Strand 50 000, when both of these have since being incorporated into the City of Cape Town municipality and thus are counted in the Cape Town population and should not be classified as cities on their own. I would suggest this page be updated with the correct population statistics.Sandelk (talk) 15:55, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

It's pretty commonly held opinion that Somerset West and Strand, though part of the City of Cape Town local authority, are distinctly separated from the continuous built-up zone of Cape Town by rural land and could be considered separate towns (Atlantis, Fisantekraal, Mamre, and Melkbosstrand can also be placed in this category). Of course there's no official definition of what is a city and what is just a suburb of another city. Other than that matter of opinion, what population statistics are you claiming to be inaccurate? - htonl (talk) 13:01, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

I am also hesitant when calling Somerset West part of Cape Town but when in doubt I still fall back on considering what ever is in the municipal area of City of Cape Town as part of the city. As such I think that Sandelk is right to ask for the stats to be updated accordingly and these areas to be included.--Discott (talk) 19:58, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

There aren't any stats to be "updated", though, as far as I can see. The only change would be to remove them from the list of towns. But if that is to happen then we must be consistent and also remove Atlantis, Mamre and Melkbosstrand which also fall within the City of Cape Town. - htonl (talk) 20:17, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Xhosa Translation

The Xhosa translation of "Western Cape" provided in the English article is different from the translation in the Afrikaans and Dutch articles. I don't speak Xhosa, but it would be nice if anyone who does could fix it.191.184.68.209 (talk) 17:37, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia Primary School invitation

Hi everybody. On behalf of the teams behind the Wikipedia Primary School research project, I would like to announce that this article was selected a while ago to be reviewed by an external expert. We'd now like to ask interested editors to join our efforts and improve the article before March 31, 2015 (any timezone) as they see fit; a revision will be then sent to the designated expert for review. Any notes and remarks written by the external expert will be made available on this page under a CC-BY-SA license as soon as possible, so that you can read them, discuss them and then decide if and how to use them. Please sign up here to let us know you're collaborating. Thanks a lot for your support! Elitre (WPS) (talk) 14:26, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Review within the Wikipedia Primary School project

Hi all. As anticipated, some weeks ago Mrs. Asta Adukaite (University of Lugano) agreed to review this article within the scope of the project linked above. You can find her notes in the PDF I just uploaded to Commons. We'd like to thank Mrs. Adukaite for her work and for her helpful notes. We invite everybody to feel free to reuse the review to improve the article and/or to comment it here. Best, --Elitre (WPS) (talk) 11:18, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Did my best to break up the "Geography" section into bite-(not byte!)-sized, easily digestible portions with headings in bold. And rearranged some of the information. Also added an extra diagram to illustrate the information presented in the text. Hope this helps. Oggmus (talk) 15:04, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Provincial borders on topographical map

I was under the impression that the topographical map of the south-western corner of South Africa originally had the borders of the province superimposed on it. But going back into the history of the article I cannot find it. Could someone with the appropriate skills please draw those borders onto that map please. The "Geography" section would make a lot more sense if that were to happen. Oggmus (talk) 15:04, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

I now notice that User:Htonl's topological map does trace out the Province's boundaries, but they are almost invisible even when the map is viewed full size. So I have redrawn that map with a more emphasized boundary line, which, to my mind, looks better and is more informative, and in line with the text. Oggmus (talk) 11:53, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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History

It seems somewhat strange that the history of Western Cape, if you read this article, only dates from the 1960s. Did nothing ever happen in what was to become the current province prior to that decade? Skinsmoke (talk) 17:46, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

For history of the Western Cape prior to this, I would recommend a link to the article on the Cape Province. --SmallMossie (talk) 12:23, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Independence Movement

While this is something we could reasonably cover we are going to need some third party sources (ie something other than the parties and campaign groups themselves) before we do so.©Geni (talk) 22:00, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for my ignorance, I'm quite new to adding information on Wikipedia. Why would third party resources be necessary? The paragraph only described the movement in of itself, describing the opinions that these parties and campaign groups hold. How could sources directly from these groups themselves then be considered inaccurate or inappropriate? So we would require third party articles describing their ideologies and the movement, but not something that comes directly out of the mouths of those supporting it? The media coverage on the movement is quite scarce so it might be hard to find sources fully describing it without input from a supporter. CapingThroughTheBlue (talk) 08:21, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Third party sources provide some evidence that something is significant enough to cover and by using somewhat reliable third party sources we provide some coverage against the issue of people blatantly lying about themselves. see Wikipedia:Verifiability.©Geni (talk) 15:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

I see a anonymous user once again added the section I wrote yesterday just as I was sending my message here. I'd like to be clear that this is not my doing, I want to respect the rules and culture of the website. If the paragraph is inadequate, I'm happy to make the appropriate changes for it to be on the article. CapingThroughTheBlue (talk) 08:26, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Geni, thank you for your response. I added new sources, are they more appropriate? CapingThroughTheBlue (talk) 13:59, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Looks better.©Geni (talk) 05:57, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Proposed reformatting

I am not convinced that this should exist as a section of its own on this article. If we look at articles on provinces with similar independence movements (such as Catalonia and Quebec) this topic is referred to briefly in the introduction and expanded on in either/or both the history and politics sections of the article. I propose that we reform this article to meet the same format as those on article pages for provinces with similar movements in them.--Discott (talk) 17:43, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Other similar articles that also have this format would include Scotland (which is technically a non-independent country). It would also include Alaska, Taiwan (a non-reconised but functionally independent country), Tibet, Kashmir, Somaliland (same status as Taiwan), Chechnya, Kurdistan Region, Turkish Kurdistan (which includes multiple regions of Turkey), and Western Sahara. The Chinese province of Xinjiang seems to be an exception to this formatting trend.--Discott (talk) 18:10, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree with the suggestion. The current text is poorly written, and has an evangelical tone to it, so needs serious attention anyway. A mention in the law and government section, like the other articles you mention, works for me. Greenman (talk) 18:56, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Geography

No 41.13.212.229 (talk) 16:54, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Cape Malay Banana fritters.jpg (discussion)
• George aerial.jpg (discussion)
• Wine farm in the Cape.jpg (discussion)

Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:07, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Don’t use 2022 census for west cape

Look at the page of the 2022 SA census for more info, in short, census takers were not able to count accurately in the west cape, due to a myriad of reasons, the undercount is as much as freaking 31% percent!! So the demographics for the west cape are going to be pretty inaccurate, and it will be better to use the 2011 census. DirkjanenBert (talk) 21:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Nah dude. The new census has issues but it's still more accurate than using data that's 12 years old. I spoke to Prof Tom Moultrie, demographer at UCT, and he said, quote, "Proportions are likely to be far more robust than the numbers". So when it comes to the race proportions you reverted I think we can reasonably use the new census stats. htonl (talk) 06:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Proportions are not more reliable than numbers, because the proportions are based off of numbers… using data that’s 12 years old is better than using wildly inaccurate data. DirkjanenBert (talk) 11:34, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

On this topic I believe a professor of demography more than a random editor. Bottom line, a national census is a reliable source unless you come with solid sources demonstrating specific inaccuracies (and not just speculation about the undercount). htonl (talk) 13:48, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2023-10-12-how-much-can-we-rely-on-census-2022/ Read that. You say you “asked a demographer”, how am I supposed to verify that? I’m also just taking your word for it aren’t I? I frankly just don’t give a damn about Tom Moultry the holy demographer. DirkjanenBert (talk) 13:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)